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[A Link to the Past]

How would anyone have any experience playing as the Infected without having just manned up and played some damn Versus mode?

And therein lies the catch 22!

 

[RocketDarkness]

Nice. In that case, you are coordinating from now on if you're on my team :lol

I need to figure out why Steam started hating both of my microphones, even transferring it's hate from XP to W7. The weird thing is, the voice chat works fine in the Steam chat and Skype, just not in L4D. Must be some ridiculous Steam Cloud setting.

 

[vertopci]

Wrong.

No, it's correct It's rare for a team to die with 4 kits. At the least, both teams will survive 4/5 maps EASILY with just 4 kits. Using CEVO, GAF games were constantly ending with scores like 7k to 5k, 6k to 5k, etc.

I need to figure out why Steam started hating both of my microphones, even transferring it's hate from XP to W7. The weird thing is, the voice chat works fine in the Steam chat and Skype, just not in L4D. Must be some ridiculous Steam Cloud setting.

Nice playing with you after a long time The voice system in L4D is total shit. That's why I want to start using ventrilo for gaf games.

 

[PillowKnight]

Wrong.

99% right. The exception being when the survivors are insanely incompetent.

 

[Twig]

They hate it because they have never played it (Except Twig) and they like the survivors to find thousands of medkits every map. And like to kill the tank in 3 seconds with tier 2.

Actually that's wrong.

Playing as survivor in versus is dreadfully boring, no matter how much fake challenge you decide to add.

Fact is, Frusmod is a piece of shit and does nothing to fix the problem, and instead enhances it.

Also I submit that if you let four survivors make it on default settings, then your infected team sucks.

Them's the breaks, kids.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I've played it once and I definitely didn't like it. We had one guy on the team who I don't think ever played versus before... or he just didn't know how. So the teams were stacked and those are never fun, but...

My biggest issue is how insular it makes the game. The elimination of tier 2 weapons means you're stuck with shotgun. The uzi is awful at crowd control and chews through ammo.

Now if you're playing as a pack with regulars, you can just run from one hiding spot to the next and shotgun your way through to eliminate these limitations in weaponry. I don't find that particularly fun, but it's a valid approach. But if you're stuck with a noob, what to do? You can't rise above your collective blob and quickly cover guys with the AR and still have some mob control weapon. Teams that play a lot together and know the best camping spot for every campaign are the winners. You're forced to be one melee blob that runs from point to point. And if you have people who can't operate like that, you're screwed as a team. Also removes a lot of valid strategies and randomness IMO.

I'm not saying the less coordinated team is gonna win (they're obviously not), but you're more able to overcome dead weight and not have it be a complete ass kicking.

I'm optimistic the L4D won't have these issues. Between realism mode, more infected types, and anti-camping designed maps, the need to nerf survivors will hopefully not be needed.

 

[Volcynika]

No, it's correct It's rare for a team to die with 4 kits. At the least, both teams will survive 4/5 maps EASILY with just 4 kits. Using CEVO, GAF games were constantly ending with scores like 7k to 5k, 6k to 5k, etc.

No, it's wrong. I can pit my experiences against your's as perfect evidence of that, if you're going to use your gameplay stuff to try and say it's rare for a team to die with 4 kits.

If neither team dies, either both teams incredibly suck, or both are very good, and the point differences should show just a tiny difference based on how awful/good each team is.

 

[vertopci]

Actually that's wrong.

Playing as survivor in versus is dreadfully boring, no matter how much fake challenge you decide to add.

Fact is, Frusmod is a piece of shit and does nothing to fix the problem, and instead enhances it.

Also I submit that if you let four survivors make it on default settings, then your infected team sucks.

Them's the breaks, kids.

Seems like you sorta hate VS in general. I like playing survivors better than infected. Infected play is pretty easy to pick up. Survivor play in VS is FAR harder to pick up. And thus why I enjoy it.

 

[vertopci]

No, it's wrong. I can pit my experiences against your's as perfect evidence of that, if you're going to use your gameplay stuff to try and say it's rare for a team to die with 4 kits.

If neither team dies, either both teams incredibly suck, or both are very good, and the point differences should show just a tiny difference based on how awful/good each team is.

So basically you're saying you always play games were one team is very good and one team is very bad.

If both teams are even half competent, they will survive more than not easily.

edit: oh noes double post

 

[Twig]

The absolute best part of this game is playing with people who actually aren't very good, because that's when shit goes down and you never know what's going to happen.

Well, at least in campaign mode.

But in Versus, making survivor half more challenging is boring. Making the infected half more challenging should be the goal of any mod. Luckily it's already just right, so there's no need to add any pointless mods.

Seems like you sorta hate VS in general. I like playing survivors better than infected. Infected play is pretty easy to pick up. Survivor play in VS is FAR harder to pick up. And thus why I enjoy it.

No, I love Versus. Infected is quite simply more enjoyable to play. Because I can be a hunter. Can survivors be hunters? Answer: no. Therefore, you are wrong. QED.

Also if survivor is so hard to pick up, why do you need to add more challenge?

Oh, right, because it's inherently boring.

 

[Volcynika]

So basically you're saying you always play games were one team is very good and one team is very bad.

If both teams are even half competent, they will survive more than not easily.

edit: oh noes double post

Edit button failure!

Also, I've not always played games where one team is good and one team is bad. It's always a mixture of responses.

Regardless, one team gets a lucky break and the other doesn't? That's the nature of the game. Trying to take things from the survivors and give things to the infected doesn't help the fun of it all.

 

[Stallion Free]

Frusmod leaves in the Sniper Rifle in all maps starting with map 2 I believe. It can be beastly if in the right hands (mine usually). Tier 1 gets so little respect but it can definitely hold its own. If you can't deal with the pump shotty than I you just suck. Auto-shotty makes taking down tanks challenge-less.

With kits, the infected have to have meticulous timing and when we just get together for a random Gaf game for fun, meticulous timing isn't usually part of that. All the regulars who play on Vert's server like Frusmod and I guess that's what counts. I'm sorry I will probably never get to play with you Volc

 

[Tenks]

And therein lies the catch 22!

Why are you such a vag? I suck at L4D something fierce but that doesn't stop me from having fun. Sure I'll get kicked occasionally for excessive terrible but why the hell do I care.

 

[Blizzard]

I'M COMING FOR YOU STALLIONNNNN

TMI TMI TMI glad I missed that game. ;_;

 

[vertopci]

Frusmod leaves in the Sniper Rifle in all maps starting with map 2 I believe. It can be beastly if in the right hands (mine usually). Tier 1 gets so little respect but it can definitely hold its own. If you can't deal with the pump shotty than I you just suck. Auto-shotty makes taking down tanks challenge-less.

With kits, the infected have to have meticulous timing and when we just get together for a random Gaf game for fun, meticulous timing isn't usually part of that. All the regulars who play on Vert's server like Frusmod and I guess that's what counts. I'm sorry I will probably never get to play with you Volc

Even with awesome timing, survivors will make it to the saferoom with kits.

TMI TMI TMI glad I missed that game. ;_;

Sicko!

 

[Twig]

If you can't deal with the pump shotty than I you just suck.

That's not what 1UP was saying.

He was saying that because you're stuck with Tier 1, all you CAN do is use the shotgun.

Personally I like to mix it up once I hit Tier 2, but I'll never mix it up in Tier 1 because, as he said, the uzi is a worthless piece of shit. I'd rather use a single fucking pistol.

So let's take out what makes the game fun yayyyyyyyy!!!

 

[Stallion Free]

TMI TMI TMI glad I missed that game. ;_;

I missed you so goddamn much Blizz. It's not the same without you. Btw, Borderlands unlocks today, one of the guys last night got it and he said he can play with us at 9 EST tonight.

 

[Volcynika]

Can't help but think Vert's hatred for kits and love for pills means he's actually a drug addict....hmm....

 

[Twig]

Can't help but think Vert's hatred for kits and love for pills means he's actually a drug addict....hmm....

*louis* OHHHH

 

[Stallion Free]

That's not what 1UP was saying.

He was saying that because you're stuck with Tier 1, all you CAN do is use the shotgun.

Personally I like to mix it up once I hit Tier 2, but I'll never mix it up in Tier 1 because, as he said, the uzi is a worthless piece of shit. I'd rather use a single fucking pistol.

So let's take out what makes the game fun yayyyyyyyy!!!

I think Nabs almost always uses the Uzi. Actually I'm gonna try it the next time we play.

 

[Blizzard]

Sicko!

Look who's talking!

I'll be at your game tonight

Spoiler

oh wait I meant Borderlands

.

 

[Twig]

Nabs is Nabs. The uzi is a piece of shit.

These are mutually exclusive.

EDIT: Can't wait 'til L4D2 Frusmod bans all ranged weapons for "balance".

 

[1-D_FTW]

Frusmod leaves in the Sniper Rifle in all maps starting with map 2 I believe. It can be beastly if in the right hands (mine usually). Tier 1 gets so little respect but it can definitely hold its own. If you can't deal with the pump shotty than I you just suck. Auto-shotty makes taking down tanks challenge-less.

With kits, the infected have to have meticulous timing and when we just get together for a random Gaf game for fun, meticulous timing isn't usually part of that. All the regulars who play on Vert's server like Frusmod and I guess that's what counts. I'm sorry I will probably never get to play with you Volc

Who's saying that? I'm saying that's all the game becomes. A bunch of regulars who play 5 hours a day, know the optimal camping spot, and shotgun blast everything in a boring camp-o-thon. I couldn't believe how crappy our team was and how we were getting destroyed, yet Vert's team would run half a mile whenever the tank would spawn so they could avoid having to fight it in anything but the best camping location. It's boring as hell.

 

[Blizzard]

That's not what 1UP was saying.

He was saying that because you're stuck with Tier 1, all you CAN do is use the shotgun.

Personally I like to mix it up once I hit Tier 2, but I'll never mix it up in Tier 1 because, as he said, the uzi is a worthless piece of shit. I'd rather use a single fucking pistol.

So let's take out what makes the game fun yayyyyyyyy!!!

Whenever survivors get tier 2 weapons (I remember Bulleta and vert doing this especially), it typically turns into a fest of EVERYONE USES THE AUTOSHOTGUN because it's the best weapon. You can kill pouncing hunters midair with it (and even with the pump shotgun), it's apparently still the best against the tank even after the nerf, it slaughters any horde, it can kill a smoker like 50 feet away, and so on. Trying to even make an attack on four survivors spamming autoshotguns in all directions doesn't seem fun to me at all, nor very varied. Sometimes people use assault rifles, and people may yell at you if you use the sniper rifle. *shrug*

I missed you so goddamn much Blizz. It's not the same without you. Btw, Borderlands unlocks today, one of the guys last night got it and he said he can play with us at 9 EST tonight.

You people scare me. ;_; I only want to be FRIENDS!

9 EST is pretty late for me, but I'll be playing with my co-op group before then. I'll let you know if I get free and have time!

 

[Twig]

Whenever survivors get tier 2 weapons (I remember Bulleta and vert doing this especially), it typically turns into a fest of EVERYONE USES THE AUTOSHOTGUN because it's the best weapon. You can kill pouncing hunters midair with it (and even with the pump shotgun), it's apparently still the best against the tank even after the nerf, it slaughters any horde, it can kill a smoker like 50 feet away, and so on. Trying to even make an attack on four survivors spamming autoshotguns in all directions doesn't seem fun to me at all, nor very varied. Sometimes people use assault rifles, and people may yell at you if you use the sniper rifle. *shrug*

This has nothing to do with anything I said. ):

 

[Volcynika]

Who's saying that? I'm saying that's all the game becomes. A bunch of regulars who play 5 hours a day, know the optimal camping spot, and shotgun blast everything in a boring camp-o-thon. I couldn't believe how crappy our team was and how we were getting destroyed, yet Vert's team would run half a mile whenever the tank would spawn so they could avoid having to fight it in anything but the best camping location. It's boring as hell.

Like I've said before, this would make me lose the motivation to play at all.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why are you such a vag? I suck at L4D something fierce but that doesn't stop me from having fun. Sure I'll get kicked occasionally for excessive terrible but why the hell do I care.

Because it ruins the experience for some people not name Tenks? I don't really care how you react to competitive games.

 

[Twig]

Because it ruins the experience for some people not name Tenks? I don't really care how you react to competitive games.

If being bad ruins your experience, how do you stand to play any games before you get good at them?

The L4D community is for the most part pretty welcoming. Just play! It's fun.

Except Vert's group. They're too hardcore for people like us.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

And therein lies the catch 22!

It isn't a catch-22. It's just you being afraid to click the "Versus Mode" button like it was asking out a girl. "Will my team like me? Am I good enough?" Who cares? Just play, it's fun.

 

[Tenks]

If being bad ruins your experience, how do you stand to play any games before you get good at them?

The L4D community is for the most part pretty welcoming. Just play! It's fun.

Except Vert's group. They're too hardcore for people like us.

Generally they will help me out. Granted I haven't been booted due to badness for a few weeks now since I've gotten the hang of it. I think I was drunk when this occurred as well. You do on occasion get a cocksandwich in there who just screams at you for a while. Luckily match making is so quick it doesn't matter. Just bounce and find a new game. Also if someone is getting way bent out of shape because you're not an expert++ level L4D player in a pug then brother needs some therapy.

 

[Blizzard]

This has nothing to do with anything I said. ):

You said all one CAN do it is use the shotgun when you only have tier 1 (not true, you have single pistol, double pistol, shotgun, uzi). Uzi is a bad choice but it's still there. I thought you said it made things boring and similar. I pointed out that with tier 2, it's also boring, frustrating, and similar since most people just get the autoshotgun, you end up with four people with the autoshotgun killing everything in sight including tanks, etc.

You CAN use other things than the autoshotgun, but aside from maybe the assault rifle, it's not a very good idea.

 

[Twig]

You said all one CAN do it is use the shotgun when you only have tier 1 (not true, you have single pistol, double pistol, shotgun, uzi). Uzi is a bad choice but it's still there. I thought you said it made things boring and similar. I pointed out that with tier 2, it's also boring, frustrating, and similar since most people just get the autoshotgun, you end up with four people with the autoshotgun killing everything in sight including tanks, etc.

You CAN use other things than the autoshotgun, but aside from maybe the assault rifle, it's not a very good idea.

No I didn't. 1-D said that, and I was clarifying his point for grif. O;

I don't care what MOST people do, though. It's about what I do. If I can't enjoy myself, it's not fucking worth playing. So if I can't grab the auto-shotty, assault rifle, or hunting rifle at the appointed time... guess what?

Yeah.

Also the uzi is a piece of shit not because it's a bad weapon, but because I find it incredibly boring to use.

In conclusion, I will repeat what I said earlier: If the survivors always make it to the end on default settings, your infected team sucks.

EDIT: That's the second time I said 1UP when I meant 1-D. WHY DO I KEEP DOING THIS?

 

[wayward archer]

Because it ruins the experience for some people not name Tenks? I don't really care how you react to competitive games.

Just use verses quickplay. 99% of the time you take over for someone who rage quit and there's no pressure at all to perform well. Mostly people are just happy you're there and that they're not playing 4v3 or even more uneven odds.

Edit: Why all the uzi hate? The uzi is great for clearing ahead of your team, mowing down hordes at long range and taking out smokers on roofs and hunters that pounce someone in the distance.

 

[Twig]

Cuz pistol's more fun to use.

 

[Blizzard]

Side note, isn't there just a server variable or something to make the survivor boomed/pounced glow go away? You'd think it would be easy to add that in l4d1 and emulate "realism mode" to some extent.

 

[vertopci]

Nabs is Nabs. The uzi is a piece of shit.

The uzi is not a piece of shit. You need at least one uzi on a team. Mows down hordes quickly, snipes better than a shotty and slows the tank down far more than the shotty.

Who's saying that? I'm saying that's all the game becomes. A bunch of regulars who play 5 hours a day, know the optimal camping spot, and shotgun blast everything in a boring camp-o-thon. I couldn't believe how crappy our team was and how we were getting destroyed, yet Vert's team would run half a mile whenever the tank would spawn so they could avoid having to fight it in anything but the best camping location. It's boring as hell.

There were people on your team who knew exactly the spots we use. Communicate!

Like I've said before, this would make me lose the motivation to play at all.

Why? Because you actually have to think before attacking?

If being bad ruins your experience, how do you stand to play any games before you get good at them?

The L4D community is for the most part pretty welcoming. Just play! It's fun.

Except Vert's group. They're too hardcore for people like us.

Huh? How are we too hardcore...Almost everyone who is a regular VSer now was a noob about a month ago.

 

[PillowKnight]

In conclusion, I will repeat what I said earlier: If the survivors always make it to the end on default settings, your infected team sucks.

I'm back!

Here's why you're wrong :
Survivors always have the ability to control a match, infected are always reacting to the survivors.
This is because survivors can control the locations where you can spawn, and even if you do manage to spawn in a good spot they can kill you in a split second.

The end result is that the survivors have the upper hand and can counter your attack even if it is the most flawless and amazingly executed attack possible. They can do this by either forcing you to attack in places which are not advantageous or by just plain killing you before you reach them. There is no "infected play" good or powerful enough to cancel out these advantages.

Let's take a look at some facts:
-It takes one regular pump shotgun shot to kill any of the special infected.
-Smoker's tongue requires even less damage.
-Boomer's spit can be canceled(even after he spits) if you melee him at the right moment.
-The tank, which is supposed to be an survivor killing machine, can be made useless through pre-lighting.
-Most levels can be run through in about ten minutes tops.

The point i'm trying to make is, if god came down and made the greatest infected playing team ever created, and he then made an equally good survivor team. The infected wouldn't stand a chance. The good thing is I don't need god to make prove argument, you can just watch some of the best L4D teams go at it, and that is exactly what you'll see.

 

[Volcynika]

Why? Because you actually have to think before attacking?

Because camping / corner camping already makes crescendo events boring as hell (which is mostly fixed in the sequel with guantlet crescendos + Spitter), so why wouldn't it make that boring as well? I play games for fun, and that doesn't sound fun at all.

Sounds boring as survivors too. Running back all that way to just camp and wait. Might be playing to win, but if it isn't enjoyable, I don't see any point in doing it.

 

[vertopci]

Because camping / corner camping already makes crescendo events boring as hell (which is mostly fixed in the sequel with guantlet crescendos + Spitter), so why wouldn't it make that boring as well? I play games for fun, and that doesn't sound fun at all.

Sounds boring as survivors too. Running back all that way to just camp and wait. Might be playing to win, but if it isn't enjoyable, I don't see any point in doing it.

Hate to break it to you, but camping doesn't actually work so well against decent infected teams. Even if they do manage to get to a spot and camp, they can still take massive damage if your attacks are timed right. Though the waiting can be a bit annoying I guess :lol

Also, you do realize that you CAN attack the survivors while they are running back right? It's not like you have to let them run back. In fact attacking them while they are running back will put them in the worst possible situation since they will be in chaos and in a location they weren't ready to defend at against the tank.

 

[PillowKnight]

Because camping / corner camping already makes crescendo events boring as hell (which is mostly fixed in the sequel with guantlet crescendos + Spitter), so why wouldn't it make that boring as well? I play games for fun, and that doesn't sound fun at all.

Yeah i'm still pissed at valve for not doing anything about that, fuck L4D2.

Sounds boring as survivors too. Running back all that way to just camp and wait. Might be playing to win, but if it isn't enjoyable, I don't see any point in doing it.

Not really, there's much more to it than that. It's not simply "running back" unless you're playing a team that isn't expecting it. It is a difference in meta-game. The survivors have to be very careful in how they retreat because the simple act of moving backwards makes you predictable, and thus vulnerable to infected ambushes. That is...when a tank spawns and you're running back is one of the moments in which the infected take control of the match--if you get boomed on while retreating it's almost certain that you'll wipe.

So it's not really less engaging than just facing off against the tank, it's just different.

 

[Twig]

The uzi is not a piece of shit.

It most certainly is. Boring as hell to use, on top of being super fucking boring equals the most boring boringness that ever bored me to boredom.

Huh? How are we too hardcore...Almost everyone who is a regular VSer now was a noob about a month ago.

That was clearly in jest. \:

P.S. Volcano Man is right and anyone who disagrees with him on this is wrong.

Especially PillowKnight with his nonsense about survivors being too good. Come back to me after you play on a good infected team.

Also of these only two are actually valid points.

Let's take a look at some facts:
-It takes one regular pump shotgun shot to kill any of the special infected.
-Smoker's tongue requires even less damage.
-Boomer's spit can be canceled(even after he spits) if you melee him at the right moment.
-The tank, which is supposed to be an survivor killing machine, can be made useless through pre-lighting.
-Most levels can be run through in about ten minutes tops.

These should be fixed by Valve. These are the only things that should be fixed by Valve. These are the only things that should be in worthless Frusmod, because that would then make it not worthless. These are the only things you have any right to bitch about.

Everything else is fine.

Boomer bile has been worthless for so long anyway, it's not even funny. Much like your point above, I have had other problems. Half the time people can hit me from what seems like five car lengths away. Other times I'm right behind someone, like two feet, and they don't see me, and they're standing still, and for some reason they don't get hit.

That sounds like poor coding to me, though, not necessarily an intentional weakness. Whether it's latency issues or not (it shouldn't be, I generally have a very good ping these days) is irrelevant. Do you disagree? Do you really think it was intentional?

And if you're going to come back with "if it wasn't intentional, they'd have fixed it by now" I'd like to point out that only last week did Valve FINALLY get around to releasing a patch that fixed clickable URLs in Steam chat. This has been a problem for... fuck, I don't even know how long.

Survivors always have the ability to control a match, infected are always reacting to the survivors.
This is because survivors can control the locations where you can spawn, and even if you do manage to spawn in a good spot they can kill you in a split second.

You can spawn ahead of the Survivors and get into position. If you have a good infected team, you will play well as a team. You will conquer the small weakness that is being killed "in a split second." Entire argument nullified.

EDIT: And this sort of thing

yet Vert's team would run half a mile whenever the tank would spawn so they could avoid having to fight it in anything but the best camping location.

is basically the same as spawn camping in a more traditional competitive FPS. Can you do it? Yes. Is it necessarily fun? Hell no, not even close.

 

[PillowKnight]

It most certainly is. Boring as hell to use, on top of being super fucking boring equals the most boring boringness that ever bored me to boredom.

That was clearly in jest. \:

P.S. Volcano Man is right and anyone who disagrees with him on this is wrong.

Especially PillowKnight with his nonsense about survivors being too good. Come back to me after you play on a good infected team.

Also of these only two are actually valid points.

These should be fixed by Valve. These are the only things that should be fixed by Valve. These are the only things that should be in worthless Frusmod, because that would then make it not worthless. These are the only things you have any right to bitch about.

Everything else is fine.

Boomer bile has been worthless for so long anyway, it's not even funny. Much like your point above, I have had other problems. Half the time people can hit me from what seems like five car lengths away. Other times I'm right behind someone, like two feet, and they don't see me, and they're standing still, and for some reason they don't get hit.

That sounds like poor coding to me, though, not necessarily an intentional weakness. Whether it's latency issues or not (it shouldn't be, I generally have a very good ping these days) is irrelevant. Do you disagree? Do you really think it was intentional?

And if you're going to come back with "if it wasn't intentional, they'd have fixed it by now" I'd like to point out that only last week did Valve FINALLY get around to releasing a patch that fixed clickable URLs in Steam chat. This has been a problem for... fuck, I don't even know how long.


You can spawn ahead of the Survivors and get into position. If you have a good infected team, you will play well as a team. You will conquer the small weakness that is being killed "in a split second." Entire argument nullified.

:lol You're dead wrong, and those counter arguments of yours are so silly. Forget arguments , "go play against a good survivor team."

 

[Stallion Free]

Except Vert's group. They're too hardcore for people like us.

We are not even slightly hardcore. Shit, we pick teams like we are playing games in gym in elementary school.

Edit: lol I was a I forgot I was posting this and you said it was a jest in that time.

 

[vertopci]

It most certainly is. Boring as hell to use, on top of being super fucking boring equals the most boring boringness that ever bored me to boredom.

A team with 1 Uzi and 3 shotties will always win against an equally skilled team using 4 shotties.

Especially PillowKnight with his nonsense about survivors being too good. Come back to me after you play on a good infected team.

He does play on a good infected team

You can spawn ahead of the Survivors and get into position. If you have a good infected team, you will play well as a team. You will conquer the small weakness that is being killed "in a split second." Entire argument nullified.

What are you talking about? That doesn't work at all. If you SPAWN ahead, you just be baited out or sniped by an uzi. You can't spawn until the second before the attack or there's a good chance you will die before attacking.

is basically the same as spawn camping in a more traditional competitive FPS. Can you do it? Yes. Is it necessarily fun? Hell no, not even close.

This stupid argument against running from the tank doesn't work. EVERYONE runs to a safe spot when the boomer booms. So why the hell should it be different for a tank who is capable of being much deadlier?

Also of these only two are actually valid points.

These should be fixed by Valve. These are the only things that should be fixed by Valve. These are the only things that should be in worthless Frusmod, because that would then make it not worthless. These are the only things you have any right to bitch about.

He wasn't bitching about any of that. He was pointing out that those are all facts and reasons why survivors are at a far greater advantage than the infected.

 

[Twig]

A team with 1 Uzi and 3 shotties will always win against an equally skilled team using 4 shotties.

Dunno what that's got to do with what I said.

He does play on a good infected team

"Conditioned by easier survivors" does not equal "goof infected team" by any stretch of the imagination.

What are you talking about? That doesn't work at all. If you SPAWN ahead, you just be baited out or sniped by an uzi. You can't spawn until the second before the attack or there's a good chance you will die before attacking.

If you're a smoker or boomer, that's true, I admit. But hunters have the ability to hide without making noise. Just... don't crouch.

This stupid argument against running from the tank doesn't work. EVERYONE runs to a safe spot when the boomer booms. So why the hell should it be different for a tank who is capable of being much deadlier?

I don't. I face shit head on like a REAL man. ARE YOU A REAL MAN? CAN YOU TAKE THE HEAT?

I didn't think so. ):<

He wasn't bitching about any of that. He was pointing out that those are all facts and reasons why survivors are at a far greater advantage than the infected.

You call 'em facts, I call 'em bitching.

TO PILLOWKNIGHT: Jealous of my debate skills, I see!

 

[vertopci]

Dunno what that's got to do with what I said.

You said the uzi is a piece of shit as well as boring. If it helps a team win, how can it be shit?

"Conditioned by easier survivors" does not equal "goof infected team" by any stretch of the imagination.

You realize we've played other teams besides GAF right?

If you're a smoker or boomer, that's true, I admit. But hunters have the ability to hide without making noise. Just... don't crouch.

Hunters will be rather useless if the smoker and boomer can't spawn in.

 

[1-D_FTW]

There were people on your team who knew exactly the spots we use. Communicate!

It wouldn't have made it any funner. To play the maps "properly" you basically distill the map to a bunch of choke points where you melee and shotgun to death. It becomes who functions best as a collective blob. There's not a whole lot of individual play or any randomness that occurs if the teams are properly matched.

As for communicate better, that wouldn't have mattered. Jenga and I were PM each other during the game laughing

Spoiler

bitter tears

about the guy who had no idea what he was doing. He spawned as boomer like 10 times in a row and he was always behind you guys by hundreds of feet. Then he'd eventually spawn, and get blown to bits trying to catch you. I saw another time when he spawned in way behind you, walked around a lit bit, and hurled at nothing. Only thing a mike would have done is made me the world's biggest asshole because there's no polite way to tell a person to stop sucking so badly.

And on that forth map you guys were up by around 4000 points and you guys literally ran half a mile to get to a building once the tank spawned. Really? We couldn't even make it to any safe houses and you guys have to worry about wasting time running all the way back to a fortified place to fight our tank? It was a real FU move.

 

[vertopci]

It wouldn't have made it any funner. To play the maps "properly" you basically distill the map to a bunch of choke points where you melee and shotgun to death. It becomes who functions best as a collective blob. There's not a whole lot of individual play or any randomness that occurs if the teams are properly matched.

As for communicate better, that wouldn't have mattered. Jenga and I were PM each other during the game laughing

Spoiler

bitter tears

about the guy who had no idea what he was doing. He spawned as boomer like 10 times in a row and he was always behind you guys by hundreds of feet. Then he'd eventually spawn, and get blown to bits trying to catch you. I saw another time when he spawned in way behind you, walked around a lit bit, and hurled at nothing. Only thing a mike would have done is made me the world's biggest asshole because there's no polite way to tell a person to stop sucking so badly.

And on that forth map you guys were up by around 4000 points and you guys literally ran half a mile to get to a building once the tank spawned. Really? We couldn't even make it to any safe houses and you guys have to worry about wasting time running all the way back to an armored place to fight our tank? It was a real FU move.

Just tell him to spawn closer as a boomer. Not everyone has played alot of VS. Just give him some tips and he'll improve.

As for running back, your tank could have easily just chilled behind the train throwing rocks at us. Running back forces you to either chase or let it go AI so you can't keep chucking rocks and getting lucky hits in.

As for the bolded...it is a team game. What do you expect?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Just tell him to spawn closer as a boomer. Not everyone has played alot of VS. Just give him some tips and he'll improve.

As for running back, your tank could have easily just chilled behind the train throwing rocks at us. Running back forces you to either chase or let it go AI so you can't keep chucking rocks and getting lucky hits in.

As for the bolded...it is a team game. What do you expect?

But what's the point? I don't know who was controlling the tank, but I'm glad we didn't spend 10 minutes throwing rocks. We were getting our asses kicked. Having a long drawn out tank when we were already mathematically eliminated would have been a waste of time.

And I understand the bolded part. But I still say removing the AR plays up the game's weaknesses even more.

That sounds like poor coding to me, though, not necessarily an intentional weakness. Whether it's latency issues or not (it shouldn't be, I generally have a very good ping these days) is irrelevant. Do you disagree? Do you really think it was intentional?

And if you're going to come back with "if it wasn't intentional, they'd have fixed it by now" I'd like to point out that only last week did Valve FINALLY get around to releasing a patch that fixed clickable URLs in Steam chat. This has been a problem for... fuck, I don't even know how long.

I've been playing a lot of single-player lately. Quick game here and there. No hassles. And it's definitely present in single-player. So it's not a latency/network thing.

 

[Stallion Free]

Geez, looking through this thread, it appears my innocent question on Frusmod really brought out the two L4D factions on Gaf :lol

Vert, I got my mic and it appears to be working fine so I can try coordinating next time I play.