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[gutter_trash]

what are his weaknesses? besides the recovery on the headbutt?

his jumping MK belly flop cross up is absolute garbage in SF4, it is nothing like SF2, it used to be a huge part of his wake-up game.
When you see SF2 Honda player picking up SF4, you will see lots of them failing this.. I have learned to not cross up anymore.. it is sad.

100 Hand Slap has shorter range and it hurts him when you are ending it. The last slaps will be whiffing and the time he takes to stop slapping when you want him to stop is blah

the Sumo Smash hit-box is way smaller and tougher to nail. Throw punishable on block

His Ultra has sloooow start up, so you must rely more on mind reading than actual visual reaction on screen because it starts so slooow

 

[Oichi]

his jumping MK belly flop cross up is absolute garbage in SF4, it is nothing like SF2, it used to be a huge part of his wake-up game.
When you see SF2 Honda player picking up SF4, you will see lots of them failing this.. I have learned to not cross up anymore.. it is sad.

100 Hand Slap has shorter range and it hurts him when you are ending it. The last slaps will be whiffing and the time he takes to stop slapping when you want him to stop is blah

the Sumo Smash hit-box is way smaller and tougher to nail. Throw punishable on block

His Ultra has sloooow start up, so you must rely more on mind reading than actual visual reaction on screen because it starts so slooow

Actually, sumo smash non-ex version is already punishable if you block the rising part. If you have an anti-air like a dragon punch, you can either stuff it completely or trade. Ryu's c.HP completely stuffs the landing part if Ryu blocks the rising part though.

Also Ultra has its uses. Of course I want it to be something to punish fireballs, like Chun's Ultra, but you can still punish fireballs with it, but it's more useful as a jump-in counter, like Fuerte's Ultra.... only shittier. :X

 

[Doc Evils]

Twats always use ryu,ken and akuma all the time and repeat their shitting run far back and fire fireballs. I love beating them with my blanka.

 

[Rocky_Balboa]

I think my Madcatz Fightpad is starting to wear down. I've been playing Balrog (box) the whole time and now after 40 hours, the db is getting a little bit unresponsive. I have to press it harder and more down than back.

Are the fightpads still rare or did Madcatz ship some more? What about Arcade Sticks for 360?

 

[Barrett2]

Twats always use ryu,ken and akuma all the time and repeat their shitting run far back and fire fireballs. I love beating them with my blanka.

I finally got to the point where I can beat the flowchart shotos consistently. Unfortunately, I am so unnerved by a shoto who knows how to play, they usually destroy me. I try to bait them into Shoryukenning me, and they just throw me or peck me over and over. :lol

 

[AndresON777]

I finally got to the point where I can beat the flowchart shotos consistently. Unfortunately, I am so unnerved by a shoto who knows how to play, they usually destroy me. I try to bait them into Shoryukenning me, and they just throw me or peck me over and over. :lol

I left my pride behind and use Akuma exclusively.

The ex air fireballs where he throws 2 are brutal. Then I can jump in after them and do whatever shit I can come up with. His ultra is cool too if I can get matched up with a bad player.

 

[Chorazin]

I finally got to the point where I can beat the flowchart shotos consistently. Unfortunately, I am so unnerved by a shoto who knows how to play, they usually destroy me. I try to bait them into Shoryukenning me, and they just throw me or peck me over and over. :lol

I hear ya man. I fought a Ken the other week that actually flaming shoryuken'd his way across the entire screen to my waiting Boxer. I coulda rushed in a punished, but I wanted to see how long he'd keep it up.

In other news, new Boxer costume in one day. Joy!

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

Wait till you get to fight AZ Greg's Vega who abuses the fuck out of PPP and KKK - no wake-up shenanigans for poor lil Fuerte.

I basically just went crazy with the dashes in an effort to confuse the fuck out of Greg. :lol

It was glorious, although I still lost in the end.

Against wall-jumps: don't bother trying to airthrow a good Vega that can control their wall-jumps and Izuna drops easily, you'll get clawed everytime.

FAs kinda work though not that good unless Claw actually hits you in front - and even then, he can just easily do izuna drop instead.

I got Greg mostly when he's trying to poke me with some back habanero dash tostada splash or tortilla propeller. Problem is, after knocking him down, Vega has the advantage in escaping a lot of Fuerte's wake-up shenanigans.

This match is Vega's to lose unfortunately - the only thing you can do is punish his mistakes (getting too aggressive in poking, slide, whiffed izuna drop, whiffed/blocked ultra). Against his specials, Fuerte doesn't have any solid answer.

I use to play Vega alot so I know how to counter Backflips pretty easily. They are extremely punishable especially if spammed. I just need to figure out how to counter Vega's Barcelona Wall Dives with Fuerte.

Also need some good tips against Akumas. People said to wall jump and avoid fireballs or dash in and trip as he is in the air fireballing.. I wasn't sure if those would work though. I may try this stuff when I get home. I need to also work on my run after blocking a Blanka ball with a Dash + FK.

 

[Vdragoon]

I use to play Vega alot so I know how to counter Backflips pretty easily. They are extremely punishable especially if spammed. I just need to figure out how to counter Vega's Barcelona Wall Dives with Fuerte.

Also need some good tips against Akumas. People said to wall jump and avoid fireballs or dash in and trip as he is in the air fireballing.. I wasn't sure if those would work though. I may try this stuff when I get home. I need to also work on my run after blocking a Blanka ball with a Dash + FK.

can you not use Fuerte's AA against the wall dives?

 

[ShinAmano]

Any tips for a Ryu/Ken vs Balrog? I seem to have trouble with him more then anyone else...

 

[Omar Ismail]

Any good strategies for Abel versus Dictator?

I played a couple of Bison's yesterday and they continued to hit-and-run with his head-stop cancel into glowing fist move. This pretty much puts him completely out of Abel's range, and I just kept on running after them leaving me at a significant tactical disadvantage. I found wheel kicks are ok for deterring rampant head-stomping, but nothing consistent.

Also, having trouble with Abel vs Zangief.

I friggin hate Zangief.

 

[Arde5643]

I use to play Vega alot so I know how to counter Backflips pretty easily. They are extremely punishable especially if spammed. I just need to figure out how to counter Vega's Barcelona Wall Dives with Fuerte.

Also need some good tips against Akumas. People said to wall jump and avoid fireballs or dash in and trip as he is in the air fireballing.. I wasn't sure if those would work though. I may try this stuff when I get home. I need to also work on my run after blocking a Blanka ball with a Dash + FK.

When Vega does barcelona wall dive, just run towards it as soon as he starts it - he'll whiff it and be open. If he starts it from full screen and you think he can only hit from the front - FAing the hit and stunning him helps to discourage more wall-dives shenanigans.

Any tips on punishing spammed backflips?


Oh yes, blocked Blanka ball with QCF+P, FK or ultra(will always hit) work wonders - problem is, they stopped doing it and start chasing you. :lol

can you not use Fuerte's AA against the wall dives?

Timing is tough on this one since Vega is arcing in the air instead of jumping towards you. I think it might work, but due to the arcing nature of Vega's wall-jump, I expect a lot of whiffs and if you somehow trade, you'll get hit instead.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

can you not use Fuerte's AA against the wall dives?

You mean his d, df, f + kick attack (leg throw)?

You could but a Vega can cross you up with it and usually he can fly higher then the kick even moves or sometimes even lower its so random.

When Vega does barcelona wall dive, just run towards it as soon as he starts it - he'll whiff it and be open. If he starts it from full screen and you think he can only hit from the front - FAing the hit and stunning him helps to discourage more wall-dives shenanigans.

Any tips on punishing spammed backflips?


Oh yes, blocked Blanka ball with QCF+P, FK or ultra(will always hit) work wonders - problem is, they stopped doing it and start chasing you. :lol

Interesting you can get ultra after a blocked ball?

Hmm.. I always figured he boucned too far back (Yes I know the ultra has insane range) but I always though it was a tad too out of reach.

He is spamming back flips then just run to him and stop right next to him and do a standard throw or dash forward.

I fake out a lot of Vegas with a Tostada press but then as they get up I immediately stop my dash and they go into backflip mode and I just dash forward and grab them.

 

[Vdragoon]

Ken vs Balrog: bait his headbutt and punish. f+mk at mid range and it will beat his rushes. just stay out of his poking range and use cmk a lot to poke back. cross-ups can also work and mix up your throws.

 

[ShinAmano]

Ken vs Balrog: bait his headbutt and punish. f+mk at mid range and it will beat his rushes. just stay out of his poking range and use cmk a lot to poke back. cross-ups can also work and mix up your throws.

That is usually how I play it...how do you bait the headbutt?

 

[Vdragoon]

That is usually how I play it...how do you bait the headbutt?

if he's knocked down just stay back then start moving f/jump f as he is getting up, they will try to headbutt sometimes, if they don't do anything just throw.

You mean his d, df, f + kick attack (leg throw)?

You could but a Vega can cross you up with it and usually he can fly higher then the kick even moves or sometimes even lower its so random.

the other thing i do is jump back and do a hk or fp it usually knocks them out.

 

[Chorazin]

That is usually how I play it...how do you bait the headbutt?

Short foprward jumps, jump straight up out of range, jump back. As soon as I see the jumping motion I always think "HEADBUTT!" but patient Balrogs will wait a second, so it's not always going to work.

A crouching Balrog (or at least MY crouching Balrog) has problems with a short-range DEEP H.Kick, leaving me wide open for a Shoryuken or ultra. Seems like if it's deep enough a down block doesn't work, and a rouching F.Punch won't catch it.

I need to work on seeing that coming and backing up.

 

[Arde5643]

Ken vs Balrog: bait his headbutt and punish. f+mk at mid range and it will beat his rushes. just stay out of his poking range and use cmk a lot to poke back. cross-ups can also work and mix up your throws.

Don't use cross-ups since Balrog has an EZ mode way of escaping cross-ups.

Here's the writeup on wake-ups against Balrog from UltraDavid, regular SRKer and tourney player:

His wakeup options are really weak.

Headbutt is a crappy reversal, no bones about it. The normal version straight up loses to lots of low attacks (ie Dhalsim down and down-back+kicks, Zangief crouching short, Dan crouching short, and I'm sure every other character has something else as well). And when it doesn't beat low attacks, it flies harmlessly right over them. And on top of that, it comes out really slowly. The fastest version, jab, takes 8 frames to come out, which means that if you have any normal that recovers in fewer than 8 frames (and everyone does, as far as I know), you can pressure him on his wakeup without him being able to do a headbutt fast enough to stop you. Now, jab loses to lots of things anyway, so if he really wants you off him, he's gonna have to do ex headbutt, which takes a full 12 frames to come out, meaning that you have even more leeway to put out a meaty normal that will recover before he can hit you with a headbutt.

And it's not like his other potential reversals are any better or faster. Super? Comes out in 9 frames. Ultra? Comes out in 10 frames. Both are extremely and easily punishable, and both are huge wastes of meter.

How about an ex rush punch? They absorb one hit, so can't they absorb the first meaty attack and hit the next one? Well, these are kinda weird. The startup on the move is very long, but after you hit him once, the actual hitting part of the dash punch comes out pretty fast, like in as few as 7 frames. But again, 7 frames is pretty slow as reversals go, so lots of characters can meaty him around this and then block the actual hit of the ex dash punch. Others can meaty him and immediately cancel into a safe pressure move.

Don't bother crossing Rog up, there's just no reason to; if you cross him up, he gets a chance to escape with headbutt (which moves him pretty far forward), he can move away from the corner, and you don't get the benefits of pressuring him on his weak wakeup. Boxer can backdash away against most characters (but not all, see Dictator crouching short xx scissors pressure), but then once he gets cornered he's pretty much out of luck.

So if a boxer gets too spammy with headbutts, a regular crouching short from Ken solves that and it recovers fast enough where if he decides to do TAP or EX headbutt instead, you can block and punish.

 

[Gantz]

For anyone looking, bestbuy.com has the TE stick in stock, but only for PlayStation 3.

damn sold out again :lol anyone know where I can preorder one again or get notified when they're in stock?

 

[ShinAmano]

Thanks for the awesome response there guys.

Side note any word on the fightpads being back in stock? I still need 3 more

Edit: 360

 

[Evlar]

Thanks for the awesome response there guys.

Side note any word on the fightpads being back in stock? I still need 3 more

System? I might sell my PS3 pad.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

I haven't touched my Tournament Edition Stick in 2 weeks because of the Fightpad..

I should probably start learning how to play Fuerte on it.

 

[chimster]

this is sad, the game has been out for two weeks and I still can't find it anywhere in the GTA (PS3 version)

 

[Fersis]

this is sad, the game has been out for two weeks and I still can't find it anywhere in the GTA (PS3 version)

GTA?

 

[Zabka]

his jumping MK belly flop cross up is absolute garbage in SF4, it is nothing like SF2, it used to be a huge part of his wake-up game.
When you see SF2 Honda player picking up SF4, you will see lots of them failing this.. I have learned to not cross up anymore.. it is sad.

100 Hand Slap has shorter range and it hurts him when you are ending it. The last slaps will be whiffing and the time he takes to stop slapping when you want him to stop is blah

the Sumo Smash hit-box is way smaller and tougher to nail. Throw punishable on block

His Ultra has sloooow start up, so you must rely more on mind reading than actual visual reaction on screen because it starts so slooow

Honda's jab torpedo isn't an effective anti-air move now. The Oicho throw has a painful startup time and range compared to other command throws. His straight-up jumping hard punch and kick are both awful.

It really feels like every move has been weakened compared to Super Turbo, and all of his potential is locked away in EX abilities.. The standing hard punch and kick attacks are still pretty good, but outside those he's very easy for a talented opponent to lock down.

 

[Lyte Edge]

Honda's jab torpedo isn't an effective anti-air move now. The Oicho throw has a painful startup time and range compared to other command throws. His straight-up jumping hard punch and kick are both awful.

It really feels like every move has been weakened compared to Super Turbo, and all of his potential is locked away in EX abilities.. The standing hard punch and kick attacks are still pretty good, but outside those he's very easy for a talented opponent to lock down.

I have a real problem with Cammy against Honda though. Well, to be more specific, against gutter_trash's Honda. Other players haven't been much of a problem...the way he uses Honda, you'd think this was the SF2 version! :lol

 

[TheGuardian]

Sorry, supposed to be a PM

 

[Arpharmd B]

Thanks for the awesome response there guys.

Side note any word on the fightpads being back in stock? I still need 3 more

Edit: 360

If you really look around you should be able to find them.

Try Best Buy.

To my knowledge, though, they haven't restocked. That or my EB sold out again damn quick (was there yesterday).

 

[toneroni]

How about ken vs vega or blanka? Those are my biggest troublespots.
Side note...just broke 3k bp
Sorry but I tend to play shotos on ranked since i've been playing them for like 15 years.
I experiment only on player match

 

[Grifter]

I just played a tourney SF4 game (run by Caspel) where you have to stick to a character. I beat his Bison and he kept saying that the Cammy slots were full, but if he were Cammy, he'd win the whole thing. You can guess what came next.

I was just amazed at the hubris, I'm guessing he destroys the new players with cannon spike and ultra spamming.

 

[sixteen-bit]

How about ken vs vega or blanka? Those are my biggest troublespots.
Side note...just broke 3k bp
Sorry but I tend to play shotos on ranked since i've been playing them for like 15 years.
I experiment only on player match

Why do you feel the need to apologize?

Play to your strengths, no shame it that.

I don't like Balrog at all, but he's he only guy I use in ranked because he's the only one I can win with consistently.

 

[SonnyBoy]

Is there a Ken fighter that wouldn't mind schooling me and teaching me how to become a better fighteR?

 

[PhatSaqs]

I just played a tourney SF4 game (run by Caspel) where you have to stick to a character. I beat his Bison and he kept saying that the Cammy slots were full, but if he were Cammy, he'd win the whole thing. You can guess what came next.

I was just amazed at the hubris, I'm guessing he destroys the new players with cannon spike and ultra spamming.

That's awesome :lol

 

[Vdragoon]

Why do you feel the need to apologize?

Play to your strengths, no shame it that.

I don't like Balrog at all, but he's he only guy I use in ranked because he's the only one I can win with consistently.

no shame indeed, but there's real hate on ken.. that one guy was going shit on me cause i said i owned a dan with my ken.

 

[Sanjay]

i lost 150BP today!!!!
gained back 50
what an awful day

I lost 300BP with Blanka yesterday but won it back today.

Spoiler

with Sagat

Think I might just play player matches now, tried out E.Honda and he seemed great to play with, guy is one powerful mofo. Any good E.Honda's here? tips pls!

 

[RSTEIN]

I now have more ranked wins than haunts. Therefore I am the better player.

 

[Barrett2]

I now have more ranked wins than haunts. Therefore I am the better player.

And to think, all this time I had respect for Haunts' game. For shame, Haunts... for shame.

 

[Fersis]

Index:
1-Movelist
2-Character design
3-Gameplay
4-Conclusion
5-Credits

Editor note: Fersis is not a pro,he never was a Street Fighter pro and never will be, he is probably wrong about
everything El Fuerte related on a pro competitive level.
This is Fersis PERSONAL opinion which doesnt reflect the official opinion of Fersis Inc.

1-MOVELIST:

RUN (FORWARD) : QUARTER CIRCLE FORWARD + PUNCH
¦STOP: LP
¦TOSTADA PRESS: MP (Overhead)
¦FAJITA BUSTER: HP
¦BACK STEP: LK
¦GORDITA SOBAT: MK
¦CARAMALE SLIDING: HK (Low attack)

RUN (BACKWARD)
QUARTER CIRCLE BACK + PUNCH

¦STOP: LP
¦TOSTADA PRESS: MP
¦PROPELLER TORTILLA: HP
¦PICADILLO JUMP: K

QUESADILLA BOMB
HOLD ANY TWO KICKS
¦Can be charged up to 3 levels

GUACAMOLE LEG THROW
FORWARD, DOWN, DOWN-FROWARD + KICK

SUPER
EL FUERTE DYNAMITE:
QUARTER CIRCLE FORWARD X2 + KICK

ULTRA
EL FUERTE FLYING GIGA BUSTER
QUARTER CIRCLE FORWARD X2 + THREE KICKS


2-CHARACTER DESIGN:
Its a classic Lucha Libre luchador you cant go wrong with that and his animations are top notch
The 'cooking' side of El Fuerte is nice and make him really funny

3-GAMEPLAY
--NEGATIVE
He doesnt do much damage,low defense and doesnt have long combos, you have to hit and run during all the match.
So... here is where i start to wonder a couple of things:
Zangief can beat El Fuerte with 3 piledrivers, Akuma with 1 Ultra and 1 HP shoryuken... so whats the deal ?
He have low defense,low strength, and it doesnt have any quick move for short range matchs...(Oddly he doesnt have a grappling or throw move)
Almost every move comes from canceling RUN (FORWARD) and RUN (BACKWARD), his strong normal attacks doesnt help at all:
-Standing HP has a lot of recovery time
-Standing far HK is too slow and has lot of recovery time
-Jumping HP and HK doesnt have good range (HP is better than HK tough)
-His crouching HK is too slow
-His crouching HP doesnt have a good range

QUESADILLA BOMB should have been an quarter circle forward + kick move and not a press and release move, since
its really easy to cancel in EL FUERTE DYNAMITE

Worst match-ups (That ive experienced):
ZANGIEF
Against a Zangief you have to run all the time and try to attack with PROPELLER TORTILLA or FAJITA BUSTER because if the
TOSTADA PRESS is blocked you are gonna eat a piledriver. (And two more of those and you are out)

AKUMA (GOUKI)
Air fireballs, 'nough said.
I only played 3 times against Akuma(Gouki) and i lose 2, i didnt find any good reliable way to avoid the pressure from the air fireballs.

--POSITIVE:
He is the faster character of all.
GUACAMOLE LEG THROW comes with almost no startup time and has great great priority.
TOSTADA PRESS same as GUACAMOLE LEG THROW: great start up and crazy priority (It beats Blanka's roll and E.Honda's headbutt)
FAJITA BUSTER can hit Akuma during Raging Demon (A-W-E-S-O-M-E)
Easy to gain space and put pressure with RUN and RUN + STOP or RUN + BACKSTEP

4-CONCLUSION
Its still the most fun character to me and it will be my main until i stop playing SF IV.
The lack of good normal attacks,close range moves (He is a luchador and doesnt have a grappling move T_T) , low defense and low strength
make El Fuerte a hard to character to master, but on the other hand he is really fun to use.
(Tough i believe that in a high competitive level El Fuerte doesnt stand a chance against Zangiefs,Akumas,Sagats and Ryus)

5-CREDITS
Capcom for making a great series and a great SF comeback
www.iplaywinner.com for the movelist(And haunts of course )
SNK for being more awesome than Capcom designing characters and for making games that changed my life.
GAF mods for not banning me for the SNK reference above. (Im not trolling)
Every single GAF member who posts on the SF IV thread,special mentions:
GrayFoxPL,haunts,ploid,Lyte Edge,Seiken,McBradders,and the others.(*Group hug*)

Sorry for my english.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I now have more ranked wins than haunts. Therefore I am the better player.

Okay big man, send me and invite; you and me, one on one

Spoiler

shotty battle on Raven Down

 

[qcf x2]

I finally got to play this game (despite buying it on day 1)!!! Crimson Viper's required timing is just ridiculous for the Challenge mode. Unless I'm too stuck in my 3rd Strike ways. From the time I saw her character design last year I said I was going to main her (I'm usually a fan of the awkward, less often used characters), but now I'm not so sure.

The production values are amazing, other than the stages. I even like the little animated sequences, as pointless as they are.

 

[ShinAmano]

Okay big man, send me and invite; you and me, one on one

Spoiler

shotty battle on Raven Down

Speaking of...any 360 players that want a match hit me up...I love a challenge and can deal some out...plus I am random only

Spoiler

the way real men play

 

[RSTEIN]

Okay big man, send me and invite; you and me, one on one

Spoiler

shotty battle on Raven Down

lol, I'm sure you'd kick my ass in both games :lol The only reason I have more wins is because I spend the majority of my time fighting dudes with 0BP.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Speaking of...any 360 players that want a match hit me up...I love a challenge and can deal some out...plus I am random only

Spoiler

the way real men play

I see.

 

[Shig]

Think I might just play player matches now, tried out E.Honda and he seemed great to play with, guy is one powerful mofo. Any good E.Honda's here? tips pls!

A jumping MK is a good setup for an Oicho throw, even if it's blocked. You have to wait a split second after you land to bust it out though, if you do it immediately it'll whiff. Get the timing down and it's very effective against a lot of players, in my experience.

 

[AndresON777]

lol, I'm sure you'd kick my ass in both games :lol The only reason I have more wins is because I spend the majority of my time fighting dudes with 0BP.

Isnt PhatSaqs like top 20 in the world?

I was checking the leaderboards and I was like holy shit that guy's from gaf!

 

[Sanjay]

Thanks Shig, sounds like a good ploy, I will try this out.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Isnt PhatSaqs like top 20 in the world?

I was checking the leaderboards and I was like holy shit that guy's from gaf!

According to youtube he perfected Alex Valle

Spoiler

Valle came back to take the match by wining the following two rounds though

 

[Haeleos]

Anyone want to play vs. a Gen player? Look me up. Gamertag: Haeleos

 

[PhatSaqs]

Isnt PhatSaqs like top 20 in the world?

I was checking the leaderboards and I was like holy shit that guy's from gaf!

Im not that good I just play a lot. Seriously. I'm too old :lol

 

[arstal]

Im not that good I just play a lot. Seriously. I'm too old :lol

Nah, you're good. You're probably the strongest player I have played on this site. (haven't played Haunts yet)