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[prodystopian]

I guess it would have to prove to be game breaking first.. I mean Urien's mirrors are a total glitch but it's what makes him solid. Players opted to leave it in the game even when the developers tried to fix it.

How so? I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of 3S.

 

[dfyb]

Of course if it doesn't get patched I'll learn how to deal with it.

You guys got to understand that I'm not asking about balancing, or complaining or anything like that. I'm just pointing out that back in the day, developer's couldn't fix glitches on non pc games. Fighting games were under that umbrella, so naturally, you had to cope with the game changing glitches. On the pc front though, where everything was online and developers could constantly fix/patch their game, every time an unintended glitch would arise, it would eventually get fixed by the dev (at least if they were a good company, ex blizzard or valve.)

Console games, and as an extension, fighting games can now be patched by developers if they chose to show that kind of support. This isn't like CvS where only the xbox version would be patched, because now all versions could be patched and you'd still have a definitive game that all people can play.

With all that being said, I don't see why they wouldn't patch it outside of laziness. I think Capcom and other fighting game companies can really set a precedent this generation in terms of continuing support for a game after release.

several of us have acknowledged your console<>PC argument. but you originally asked if tournaments would ban them, which is an entirely separate issue than the developers patching them.

 

[Freshmaker]

You know...this morning I almost did this to my 1080p DLP TV. Random Ken vs my Rose. Laggy conditions. I couldn't connect shit and instead of ultras I managed EX soul throws which are...ummm...not a suitable alternative, and usually result in me losing massive damage. At the end he does like 3 SRKs in a row and I go for the Ultra (executed nice and slow just in case)only to have that final glorious soul throw launch me into the air for the last SRK to kill me. I punched the floor, got up and prepped the sweet chin music for my TV. At the last split second I turned and kicked the air. Even after losing to so many crappy players, it hurts every time. I would rather lose a double perfect to an intermediate player than lose a single round to a scrub, it just should not happen in fighting games.

Yeah, it's kinda a double whammy to the old mental rage bar when they sneak one in. It's something you think you should never lose to, and it also acts to reinforce their belief that they're playing the game to their true potential.

 

[blackadde]

How so? I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of 3S.

urien has retarded midscreen and corner unblockable setups, but it's what keeps him competitive (eg. mid-top tier). i think some of them were fixed in ver. B of the arcade game. all fighting games have dumb things like this; some are system wide (roll cancel), some are character specific (kara-karakusa, bizarre shin-shoryuken otg's on dudley) but the community usually just takes them in stride.

 

[FindMyFarms]

If you could do this with EX Upper then I could see it maybe being game breaking but w/o meter to do a super or extend a combo then its like well how bad can it be? I just think its cool right now.

Like I said, this will be the first time console games really get a chance to be patched.

If we go by the precedent set by the PC community, balance isn't a criteria for fixing a glitch. The main criteria was whether or not something is a glitch. If it's a glitch, you fix it, simple as that!

I just hope that since Capcom now has the opportunity to do so, they step up to the plate and show the level of support that other elite companies have been doing for their games for years now.

 

[FindMyFarms]

several of us have acknowledged your console<>PC argument. but you originally asked if tournaments would ban them, which is an entirely separate issue than the developers patching them.

Yeah my bad, I was thinking about two things at a time and got into a rambling tangent lol. I completely forgot that I was asking about tournaments to begin with (*_*)

I guess what I should be asking is:

Now that game devs can easily patch fighting games, do you think they should and/or would?

 

[arstal]

doubt serious tournaments would ban that.

Not to mention it wouldn't really be enforceable- one could claim they did it by accident.

Bans have to be something clearcut.

BTW while I think the tourney community should ban things to improve a game under some circumstances, this isn't one of those situations.

 

[Augemitbutter]

do we have an official date for the SF IV tournament patch yet?

 

[haunts]

do we have an official date for the SF IV tournament patch yet?

March 31st according to IGN. I dont think thats correct tho.

 

[Augemitbutter]

yea, i think so too.

 

[FindMyFarms]

I thought I'd link this thread on SRK because I think this guy makes a great point :

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=179183&page=3

When you don't have unpenalized drops and laggy online play, the BP system is a really solid ranking system. All you have to do is look at the top BP players in japanesearcades and notice that those people are actually some of the best in the world(Daigo?! lolz.)

On the tournament patch, is it finalized what their adding? Any mention yet on lobbies and spectator mode?

 

[arstal]

Is there going to be any gameplay balancing in that patch?

Praying for Fuerte, Honda buff, Sagat and Boxer nerf.

 

[FindMyFarms]

Is there going to be any gameplay balancing in that patch?

Praying for Fuerte, Honda buff, Sagat and Boxer nerf.

Honda buff? Did you see the Final Round results? There were a lot of top placers that used Honda.

 

[Fersis]

Is there going to be any gameplay balancing in that patch?

Praying for Fuerte, Honda buff, Sagat and Boxer nerf.

El Fuerte needs more health or more strength ;_;
Honda is freakin' strong,doesnt need anything.

 

[EraldoCoil]

anyone wanna play a few matches? i'm working on a new Alt. character so i wanna try viper out.

psn: Eraldo_Coil

 

[dfyb]

i've realized that when i win, i get more friend requests than rage messages. guess it's a plus to playing a less known character (fuerte)

El Fuerte needs more health or more strength ;_;
Honda is freakin' strong,doesnt need anything.

if you can do RSF consistently, i think he's balanced. otherwise, it's a lot of work but you can win.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

I really doubt they will tweak or balance anything anymore in the game.

 

[haunts]

Ehh.. Id say leave the game alone for the most part. I think its fairly well balanced right now.. Its still too new to make tweaks imo..

 

[dfyb]

I thought I'd link this thread on SRK because I think this guy makes a great point :

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=179183&page=3

When you don't have unpenalized drops and laggy online play, the BP system is a really solid ranking system. All you have to do is look at the top BP players in japanesearcades and notice that those people are actually some of the best in the world(Daigo?! lolz.)

On the tournament patch, is it finalized what their adding? Any mention yet on lobbies and spectator mode?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kA1TvVmqbY

apparently these guys have super high BP on XBL (20k or so). i do agree that if used properly, the BP system is good though. (maybe it could be a bit more consistent though.... seems random sometimes).

 

[dfyb]

Ehh.. Id say leave the game alone for the most part. I think its fairly well balanced right now.. Its still too new to make tweaks imo..

probably too new, yes. but it could use balance adjustment. sagat is too easy. some other characters could use slight buffs (i think simply changing the dmg around could help).

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kA1TvVmqbY

apparently these guys have super high BP on XBL (20k or so). i do agree that if used properly, the BP system is good though. (maybe it could be a bit more consistent though.... seems random sometimes).

Sigh ..

Yea unfortunately like the top 15-20 are all BP Traders.. They just play eachother and gather BP..

 

[Relix]

March 31st according to IGN. I dont think thats correct tho.

What is it supposed to include?

 

[qcf x2]

How so? I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of 3S.

Urien has unblockable combos that aren't too difficult to do. With those he isn't the best (or top 3) character in the game. Without them, he's significantly lower. So it helps.

Also, karas in 3s were unintentional, but are mainstream in tournaments. It involves interrupting one move with another, and in the case of throwing it increases your range. It also allows for combos that are not possible using the intended framework. That they are in SF4, though, shows that the devs liked the idea.

Actually, we can take it all the way back. From what I know, combos in the original SF2 were not meant to exist. They were apparently a "glitch" if you will, but one that essentially revolutionized and popularized the genre.

With all this said, I think it's likely they'll patch the Balrog thing. It seems neither gamebreaking nor particularly useful. In fact it looks entirely unintended, like a true blue glitch. For this reason I think they'll patch it.

 

[Timedog]

Ehh.. Id say leave the game alone for the most part. I think its fairly well balanced right now.. Its still too new to make tweaks imo..

don't you use sagat?

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Does Blanka's ex ball beat an ex fireball from a shoto?

I have been lucky recently since I've been bottom feeding to improve my bp.

Blanka's ex Beast Roll ignores any projectile. It just go past them.

 

[viewtiful_dru]

I know that the patch isn't going to address balance issues, so I hope that it changes:

a) matchmaking, as far as the search for a game goes. Returning to the menu if I can't connect to someone is stupid.
b) standardize Ranked matches , because a 1 round 30 secs ranked match is stupid, and even if you can just search for games that fit your criteria, I don't think that's an indicator of skill or experience. How you can rank players using different criteria is beyond me.
c) give the option for blind select in Ranked matches (for example, only allow it if both parties agree)
d) fix the goddamn button mapping. take a page from HD Remix and just let me tap a button for hard punch instead of having to flip through every option for that button

 

[prodystopian]

Ehh.. Id say leave the game alone for the most part. I think its fairly well balanced right now.. Its still too new to make tweaks imo..

I think they would set a stupid standard trying to rebalance this early.

Thanks for the explanations about 3S. I've seen some high level Urien play, but didn't realize it was a glitch.

Also, I put in 3S a couple minutes ago to check out Chun's Fierce normal :lol . Holy shit, I get the joke now. Too bad she doesn't have it in SFIV, she'd be a bit easier for me .

don't you use sagat?

:lol

 

[Rektash]

Ok what to do against Blanka as Balrog? For me it seems its fucking impossible. He beats EVERY move of Balrog. All dashes? Roll wins over every dash. Even the FUCKING EX version is beaten by a normal blanka roll because it armor breaks. Headbutt is nearly impossible to time against roll too. You have NO tool to beat electrivity either. Headbutt? Beaten by electricity. Dash? Beaten by electricity (yes even the ex versions). The normals don t work vs electricity either since you can only c.hk at MAXIMUM range, otherwise it hits you too. Jump ins? No way because of reverse electricity. All Blanka has to do is sit back and chip you to death and you have literally no way an earth to do anything against it, because you have NO tool to approach him. Its fucking ridiculous.

 

[McBradders]

Sigh ..

Yea unfortunately like the top 15-20 are all BP Traders.. They just play eachother and gather BP..

Huh. I played a guy with 17k today and destroyed him, why are people farming it?

 

[viewtiful_dru]

Ok what to do against Blanka as Balrog? For me it seems its fucking impossible. He beats EVERY move of Balrog. All dashes? Roll wins over every dash. Even the FUCKING EX version is beaten by a normal blanka roll because it armor breaks. Headbutt is nearly impossible to time against roll too. You have NO tool to beat electrivity either. Headbutt? Beaten by electricity. Dash? Beaten by electricity (yes even the ex versions). The normals don t work vs electricity either. Jump ins? No way because of reverse electricity. All Blanka has to do is sit back and chip you to death and you have literally no way an earth to do anything against it, because you have NO tool to approach him. Its fucking ridiculous.

You can punish blocked rolls with dash punch 100% of the time.

just bait a roll.

electricity, you need to stand the proper distance away and use a crouching normal (preferably HK) and he'll get hit out of it. You have to learn the spacing, you want to hit the bottom of Blanka's hitbox with the tip of your glove.

Don't approach him, let him come to you.

 

[dfyb]

sometimes i lose connection while the screen is black. makes them think i ragequit. happened like 3 times so far. anyone else?

 

[haunts]

don't you use sagat?

haha yes and thats why I can say that. Id say scaling his damage back would be fair but good players can still deal with him pretty well. Hes not broken like other top tier capcom characters.

Its just right now the game is balanced, it plays great.. I just fear if they mess with it too much too soon then it will lead to more problems than we have now which isnt much.

 

[TimeKillr]

Also, karas in 3s were unintentional, but are mainstream in tournaments. It involves interrupting one move with another, and in the case of throwing it increases your range. It also allows for combos that are not possible using the intended framework. That they are in SF4, though, shows that the devs liked the idea.

Actually, karas aren't in SF4 because "the devs liked them".

Kara-cancelling is a by-product of some of Capcom's "easy input" system. It was present in SF3, CvS2, etc.

How it works is that the system is more lenient in the first few frames of ANY attack and looks for additional attack inputs within the first few frames. What this means is that you can cancel any normal by a special attack VERY early. It's sort of a glitch but it's somewhat unavoidable due to timing.

Roll cancelling were kara-cancels from rolls. The glitch in roll cancelling is that the game is kind of multithreaded and the developers didn't think of turning off the roll invincibility when you cancel the roll into another move. In 3S, they're used to gain range (and in SF4) because certain moves change the character position. I assume it's unfixable under the current system and would most likely cause graphical glitches or desyncs with the game scene. With SF4, I think Capcom made the bigger mistake of making that cancel window wider, making those kara cancels easier.

It's a glitch. The thing is fighting games thrive from their high-end community who actually enjoy those glitches. That's probably part of why they're never worked on and patched - their most hardcore gamers who support the game wouldn't like it if they removed what they consider "hardcore-only features".

 

[Fersis]

i've realized that when i win, i get more friend requests than rage messages. guess it's a plus to playing a less known character (fuerte)


if you can do RSF consistently, i think he's balanced. otherwise, it's a lot of work but you can win.

RSF???? V_V

 

[qcf x2]

Interesting stuff TK, I thought that since SF4 was done using polys that the kara cancels were if not intentional then intentionally left alone this time around. Sorta like how they opted to not have proper recoil on certain moves/animation for the sake of preserving the feel of a 2D fighter.

 

[Kintaro]

if you can do RSF consistently, i think he's balanced. otherwise, it's a lot of work but you can win.

He needs help overall. Better stamina at least. Dude is a Luchadore. =/ The RSF thing doesn't really fly IMO. I've gotten better at it, but when you have to say "If you can do this really, really hard thing all time, he's actually balanced". That's when you know it's not. =P

 

[dfyb]

He needs help overall. Better stamina at least. Dude is a Luchadore. =/ The RSF thing doesn't really fly IMO. I've gotten better at it, but when you have to say "If you can do this really, really hard thing all time, he's actually balanced". That's when you know it's not. =P

well i didn't say i'd be opposed to giving him a HP or DMG buff \

right now sagat's normals do more damage and often take priority over fuerte's specials. it's such a ridiculous fight.

 

[arstal]

Honda buff? Did you see the Final Round results? There were a lot of top placers that used Honda.

People used the same argument for Q is 3S become Kuroda owned with him.

Honda needs a buff in the safety department on his butt slam (no more crouching fierce from shotos beating it), and a buff on his ultra (less startup, no more Gief lariat completely no-selling the ultra like he's Hogan) Also have him more forward on his hands normally like ST.

He doesn't need a huge buff, but he does need something.

 

[andymcc]

just played some matches against micvlad and his dhalsim utterly destroyed my poor balrog. : (

 

[NameGenerated]

So I've come to the point that Dhalsim's Medium kick>Light Yoga blast challenge is impossible, as is Gouken's Heavy kick>Super....and both are only on Normal level 3. What gives.

 

[dfyb]

So I've come to the point that Dhalsim's Medium kick>Light Yoga blast challenge is impossible, as is Gouken's Heavy kick>Super....and both are only on Normal level 3. What gives.

hold back when you kick.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

Huh. I played a guy with 17k today and destroyed him, why are people farming it?

To be the highest..

I mean do you see the odd gap? Some of the gaps are in the thousands. They obviously are just inviting friends and taking free wins etc. Its pretty stupid.

I mean in the top 5 there are two people with almost identical names.

So I've come to the point that Dhalsim's Medium kick>Light Yoga blast challenge is impossible, as is Gouken's Heavy kick>Super....and both are only on Normal level 3. What gives.

This is tough and is bread and butter for Dhalsim.. so you better master it if you want to use him.

Do this..

Back + MK
then quickly move your stick to Down Forward position.. Then back to the down back and then back position + LP to get the flame.

Takes some time but I can get it a decent amount using this rotation I got from SRK.

 

[Timedog]

To be the highest..

I mean do you see the odd gap? Some of the gaps are in the thousands. They obviously are just inviting friends and taking free wins etc. Its pretty stupid.

I mean in the top 5 there are two people with almost identical names.

i don't understand how this could work when you can't invite friends to play ranked.

 

[NameGenerated]

nevermind, I'm way late.

 

[Dizzy-4U]

800k+ sold!!

I can't believe it yet, I'm so happy right now. It's beautiful to see the game doing this good. Hopefully this is an eye-opener for Capcom to revive other fighting franchises (Rival School PLZ PLZ PLZ!!) (they should probably fix the lobby issues first though :lol )

 

[Zabka]

i don't understand how this could work when you can't invite friends to play ranked.

De-friend, search for people of similar skill, boot anyone else who joins.

The system stinks. It's almost as if the Ranked playlist was built to be exploited.

 

[dfyb]

an easy way to reduce BP trading would simply be to make it impossible for those stupid matchups where you can only earn 1 BP. pretty sure i just played someone's alt account and lost 124 BP.....

it should be impossible to be matched up with someone with zero BP if i have 2k. i have NOTHING to gain from that fight and they should have to build up BP before fighting me.

 

[Tashi]

an easy way to reduce BP trading would simply be to make it impossible for those stupid matchups where you can only earn 1 BP. pretty sure i just played someone's alt account and lost 124 BP.....

it should be impossible to be matched up with someone with zero BP if i have 2k. i have NOTHING to gain from that fight and they should have to build up BP before fighting me.

word that happen to me to, but I don't have 2k bp. More like 1300.

 

[sixteen-bit]

800k+ sold!!

I can't believe it yet, I'm so happy right now. It's beautiful to see the game doing this good. Hopefully this is an eye-opener for Capcom to revive other fighting franchises (Rival School PLZ PLZ PLZ!!) (they should probably fix the lobby issues first though :lol )

I want a new Vampire/Darkstalkers

 

[viewtiful_dru]

So I've come to the point that Dhalsim's Medium kick>Light Yoga blast challenge is impossible, as is Gouken's Heavy kick>Super....and both are only on Normal level 3. What gives.

for the HK to super with Gouken, do qcf+hk,qcf+p