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The Order: 1886 |OT| Gears of Yore
- Thread starter Skux
- Start date
XxRampage07xX
Member
I can understand Lakshmi's attitude towards Galahad when they first met. There was still a wide distance as they weren't able to build strong trust of each other. So yeah, calling Galahad as "Knight" is fine. But after all the fights in Blackwall Dock and United India House infiltration where they protect each other against waves of enemies and that Lakshmi saves his ass, I expect their relationship to be closer and much more mutual. So, "Knight" is not an appropriate word for Lakshmi to call Galahad. Call him "Gray" or "King" or something. There should be any distance between them.
I agree. From the bottom of my hope, I really hope that RaD will focus a lot more on gameplay experience in the sequel (if it ever happens). Seriously, I will be fine even if the graphics remain unchanged or has no major improvement in the next game. Gameplay aspect should be their top priority when they design their next game. I love this game, but I can't deny it has some obnoxious flaws in combat and level design. Fixing all those flaws and the next game will be doing just fine.
I think the issue is if ou try and play that section as pure stealth (although in truth even that isn't too hard) - I.e. Creep up past everyone.
The reality is that sections remains a kill everyone section just one you use crossbow and knife for.
I had two false starts thinking they really meant stealthy then clicked it was kill everyone without a care just don't be loud about it.
I should have known after the first mission where you're told to avoid lethal force if necessary which is totally misleading as in fact you have no option but to kill everyone (so far as I'm aware).
Yeah, of all the things that bug me in the game, this stood out the most for me. With some of the dialogue and story bits, it was just such an odd omission.
Yeah you essentially have to murder until you 'find' the key for the first section and the subsequent sequences require the same. The objective remains 'clear the west wing' or something to that effect.
After you realize that though, I don't see why so many would find it difficult. I was expecting an absolute mess after reading the reviews and impressions.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I'd also say it's for respect, and not just lack of trust. While Lakshmi knows the Order has the enemy within, she also must realize the the others actually fight for something she also believes in. Even though they are deceived according to her.
XxRampage07xX
Member
So what is your excuse when a gentleman like Galahad punches people, snaps their necks and knee strikes them in their faces? Or is it Galahad being allergy to filthiness?
So what is your excuse when a gentleman like Galahad punches people, snaps their necks and knee strikes them in their faces? Or is it Galahad being allergy to filthiness?
Obviously the filthiness allergy that most knights suffer from.
So what is your excuse when a gentleman like Galahad punches people, snaps their necks and knee strikes them in their faces? Or is it Galahad being allergy to filthiness?
galahad is like 400 years old..this silly vampire/werewolf/rebel thing is just a boring day on the beat
That I agree with you on. Played "as intended" they're easy IMO.
I think people just make it hard for themselves without meaning to. At least there's a thread they can post in about it...
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yeah, it wasn't hard at all. I'm not sure what people complained about. Especially, if you used the crossbow, that section is super-easy.
Handy Fake
Member
So what is your excuse when a gentleman like Galahad punches people, snaps their necks and knee strikes them in their faces? Or is it Galahad being allergy to filthiness?
Gentleman-Fu.
Haha good point.
I was just genuinely surprised at the consistency with which these sections were criticized. There are far worse insta-fail stealth sections in other games.
LapinAgile
Member
After finishing the game and going back and playing other shooters I really hope they take the criticisms about the game to heart. The whole thing felt like I was walking through a museum display... the gunplay was decent but there were very few times when I had to actual shift cover or employ any sort of tactical awareness (unless the AI refused to move and I had to go hunt them down) It was a beautiful world that I didn't feel even the slightest connection to. The minor lycan battles were the worst part of the game,
I found myself being annoyed by the cutscenes more than I was being drawn in by the story. Even games like Half-Life 2 had walk and talk scenes but they never were so insecure as to wrestle control away from the player to get in their story. They used natural cues or level design to get in the story bits... this feels like a step backward from that. It's so good looking it seems a lot are willing to forgive it but for me if they get a sequel I really hope they makes some changes to how the story is delivered as not to sacrifice from the "game" part of the game.
the "uber"lycans were well choreographed but again... no tactics, just an exercise in memorization. Also in the last cutscene Galahad picks up a sweet looking new gun that you never actually get to use.
formasymphonic
Member
I'm going to trust your opinion on this... I get the feeling you might be knowledgable.
I finished it last night. Overall, I REALLY enjoyed it. It took me 7 hours to complete.
Pros:
+ Graphics: It can't be stated enough how next-level these visuals are. Stunning.
+ Sound: Phenomenal sound design. Very atmospheric and full of nuance.
+ Acting: Not just from the main cast either. Even extras give good performances both in voice and facial capture.
+ Cinematography: This is Hollywood quality shot composition and editing.
+ Setting: Steampunk enough to feel unique while grounded enough to feel real.
+ Gunplay: Nothing too original here but the science weapons are a blast to use. Every gun felt "weighty" and strong. Cover system works well, too.
+ Melee: The variety of contextual, environmental takedowns always made doing them feel rewarding.
+ Story: While mostly predictable, it was compelling enough to keep me engaged and I found the characters fun and charismatic. I felt for the characters and their plight. There was enough mystery to keep it interesting, too.
+ Load times: How do you have graphics that look this good and yet the game loads in just seconds?!
Cons:
- Failable QTEs: While I didn't mind the QTEs most of the time, even the small ones, every so often they there would be a scene that requires lightening quick reaction times I simply didn't possess. So, it lead to having to repeat scenes many, many times which was simply frustrating. Also, for all the talk about branching QTEs, there were very few of them and you could still fail them.
- Failable Stealth: Taking down five guys only to have a sixth spot you and having to do it all over again was also VERY frustrating.
- Nudity: It felt almost pandering. The number of dongs we see on screen was especially unnecessary.
- Enemy AI: Pretty dumb. You could pretty much just wait for every enemy to stick their head up into your line of fire. Also, they had very consistent patterns they would follow.
- Ending: It felt a bit anti-climactic and didn't answer enough questions and didn't feel like an actual conclusion to the story being told.
This is a game I could see myself going back to in a few months and playing through again. Even though I know it'll be the same experience, like a good movie, I don't mind watching it again especially since I know I'll be better at it the second time through.
Pros:
+ Graphics: It can't be stated enough how next-level these visuals are. Stunning.
+ Sound: Phenomenal sound design. Very atmospheric and full of nuance.
+ Acting: Not just from the main cast either. Even extras give good performances both in voice and facial capture.
+ Cinematography: This is Hollywood quality shot composition and editing.
+ Setting: Steampunk enough to feel unique while grounded enough to feel real.
+ Gunplay: Nothing too original here but the science weapons are a blast to use. Every gun felt "weighty" and strong. Cover system works well, too.
+ Melee: The variety of contextual, environmental takedowns always made doing them feel rewarding.
+ Story: While mostly predictable, it was compelling enough to keep me engaged and I found the characters fun and charismatic. I felt for the characters and their plight. There was enough mystery to keep it interesting, too.
+ Load times: How do you have graphics that look this good and yet the game loads in just seconds?!
Cons:
- Failable QTEs: While I didn't mind the QTEs most of the time, even the small ones, every so often they there would be a scene that requires lightening quick reaction times I simply didn't possess. So, it lead to having to repeat scenes many, many times which was simply frustrating. Also, for all the talk about branching QTEs, there were very few of them and you could still fail them.
- Failable Stealth: Taking down five guys only to have a sixth spot you and having to do it all over again was also VERY frustrating.
- Nudity: It felt almost pandering. The number of dongs we see on screen was especially unnecessary.
- Enemy AI: Pretty dumb. You could pretty much just wait for every enemy to stick their head up into your line of fire. Also, they had very consistent patterns they would follow.
- Ending: It felt a bit anti-climactic and didn't answer enough questions and didn't feel like an actual conclusion to the story being told.
This is a game I could see myself going back to in a few months and playing through again. Even though I know it'll be the same experience, like a good movie, I don't mind watching it again especially since I know I'll be better at it the second time through.
The Order: 1886 | Sail the Skies | Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhMz45mFTu8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhMz45mFTu8
Why is this coming out now? Seems odd it wouldn't have been part of the prerelease blitz.
shinobi602
Member
Good writeup though I have to disagree with this a little. I completed it on hard and there were quite a few sections where they gave me a run for my money. Some flanking instances, shotgunners were a pain in the ass when they'd rush me forcing me out of cover, grenades lobbed left and right at me...
Not all the battles were difficult but there were some where I died quite a few times.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Could this be hinting at DLC? O_O
JackLongRod
Banned
Just finished the game
A little short but wow was it fantastic , hopefully the game gets a sequal.
Anyone have a link to guides for the collectible trophys ?
A little short but wow was it fantastic , hopefully the game gets a sequal.
Anyone have a link to guides for the collectible trophys ?
I should have mentioned I played on Normal difficulty. I'm glad to hear that Hard provided better AI.
Oh man, I hope so!
Those damn shotgunners. Those guys were real jerks on Hard.
I only recall one dong on screen? And it was in a brothal? I guess i wasn't looking out for them?
Neuromancer
Member
That'd be nice but I get the feeling it's just another promo. Like the police radio one.
Yeah that's the only one that I remember, and it wasn't "pandering" by any means.
They ran into an occupied room in a brothel so it's not a stretch that there's going to be naked people in there.
NullPointer
Member
They're completely vulnerable when they reload between shots. A little patience usually makes them a push-over.
Its the armored guys I have the most problems with. You really just have to pour on the damage - I haven't noticed a weak spot on em, though they can stagger on occasion.
And of course the snipers. I wait until they take their shot to go after them but that can take a while - and suppression through blindfire or through allies promising cover fire doesn't seem to affect those snipers one way or another.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
You know
the hospital chapter was really well done. Gave me the creeps
Can I expect more of it later in the game?
the hospital chapter was really well done. Gave me the creeps
Can I expect more of it later in the game?
shinobi602
Member
It's pretty much the peak of any creepiness in the game. Probably my favorite chapter.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
ah damn
formasymphonic
Member
I found that I could bait them into firing at me and making an opportunity during their reload by using the peek out of cover.
XxRampage07xX
Member
This just reminds me the last section in Airship chapter. Goddamn armored shotgunner with his followers murder me time after time. And the reason why I get killed not because I am trying to be a rambo. Well, I do try to get into covers to avoid gunshots from those assholes but WTF there is not any single cover in that room. There are plenty of tables and chairs but none of them can be used as cover. What's wrong this level design? Are RaD supposed to make me face to face with the bullet sponge shotgunner?
Wrapped this up yesterday and have been mulling over what I think about it.
First, and most obvious, the game is obviously gorgeous. This is by far the best looking game I have ever seen and played, the sheer amount of detail is mindboggling. I would pick up collectibles just to move them around in my hand to see the light hit off of the paper, because that shit just looked good. I didn't have any issues with the black bars--part of me is wondering if The Evil Within got me used to it, but even in that I would have issues with the camera at times. It felt completely natural in this game.
The gameplay also feels a lot better than I expected. The general act of moving Galahad around, the feel and impact of the shooting, etc. This is especially shown with some of the different weapons, primarily the Arc Gun and the Three Crown shotty, both were capable of doing tremendous damage that made you feel really damn powerful, with the gibs to match.
But I keep mulling over what I think about the combat itself. It does feel good, but something about the game always felt a little strange to me, and I think it's the AI. I played on hard with no autoaim(which I think most people should, it wasn't difficult), but quickly realized that...well, you can just kinda relax wherever you are. The game is essentially shooting fish in a barrel, as the AI will never move up on you. The game instead uses a few enemy TYPES to do this, but the normal enemies will stay back. The most often used are shotgunners, who will move right up to flank and kill you. This is where blacksight comes in, and seeing some discussion on this page about it, I'm not surprised to see it not used by many...it's a mechanic that is introduced without feeling impactful, but is actually grossly powerful. Anytime you see a shotgunner, blacksight and kill them. Nobody will flank you, and you can take your time with everyone else. A couple more things can happen, like the grenade tossing enemies or the armored guys wielding a detonator, but they seemed infrequent(and it seemed like normal enemies didn't toss grenades at all?). To add even more to the fire, if you managed to go down from the standard enemies, you meander around on the floor before drinking and can fully regain your blacksight to make it even easier to clear a room. They won't move up to execute or finish the job.
The only other mixup here are fighting lycans, which straight up suck. They are badly designed enemies and sections from multiple angles. RE4 is a game I find to be a bastion of brilliant design and pacing, so I'll use it as a comparison in a few ways here. First, context sensitive dodging. This can work fine as a mechanic--enemies in RE4 will sometimes have specific attacks that let you do this, but it's used best when they have a multitude of attacks in their arsenal to begin with. Lycans do not do that, they only have one attack where they come out from hiding and run at you. Cue a dodge. Now look at Salvador in RE4, who has one attack. This guy is intimidating as a motherfucker, and there are times where you can fight more than one at once. He has one move, but it is a huge threat and doesn't just have X TO DODGE. He would be a joke in that case. The same trick above where you just hang back works against these guys, too. You can immediately tell when you enter a lycan room since there's boxes and shit making the arena look like a maze, but if you just stand back near the entrance they can't jump out and take you by surprise, they'll dumbly blitz at you in succession as you dodge them all and pepper them down. In a game where the knights of the order are fighting halfbreeds, I expected them to have a bigger role in gameplay. Instead I am thanking my lucky stars they only show up around three times, because they are a huge disappointment. The Elder Lycans also feel like a casualty of overly cinematic, as you are never left to the wolves (sorry) while fighting. Instead it's an intro cutscene that segues into walking backwards, which is a cutscene where he can smell you, which is basically a QTE, etc. If you just had natural gameplay and saw him transform which forced to to run, it would be way more intense. There are also stealth sections littered around, but you get no opportunity of something like that while evading a foe like this. It all was overly controlled and could have been more.
So...I'm in a weird place with the core of the game. The shooting feels good, but I felt like it was letdown by the design of so many other factors in the game. It's a strong base to work with for a sequel, if nothing else, if RAD understands the proper way to iterate it.
Some other spots in the game that could use tweaking are the collectibles. These are almost fine but missing a few crucial things to make them really work. For one, they are just damn near impossible to actually read. Like what the hell. There's nothing like TLoU where documents could be written in any matter of cursive or small text while always having a specific button to just display the text. Newspapers in particular would have forced me to actually stand up and get really close to the screen, so I never read anything but the headlines. The implementation of those cylinders that are basically audio logs also felt undercooked, as it forced you to pause and navigate to a menu to listen to them. Then there's the final and oh so important of actually being able to track them, there is no way to review what you've looked at which would have helped with the whole being damn hard to actually read thing, as it forces you to care in that very instance or forget about it entirely. But it also means that while going through the chapter select which is nicely broken up into even more scenes, it has no simple "x/x" listing which would have an otherwise simple task mindnumbing to deal with. After completing the game, I had missed one newspaper, 2 of those audio logs, and already viewed all the objects. Right now I only have photos/documents which are grouped together, and I know I got most of them. Hell if I know where to look, though.
The only other issues I really had was with pacing. Instead of listing arbitrary playtime hours, the game just feels short. It still has a slow intro, and when things feel like they're really starting to pick up
you're already basically halfway through the game. The ending is such an unsatisfying note to end on as well. The game starts to introduce other aspects near the end
and then does NOTHING with it. It doesn't properly stand up on its own accord as a satisfying story. It really does feel like the second act of something, we didn't get a ton of fleshing out for galahad as a knight or a lot of reason to really care about the impact some of the twists would have.
Still, I had a fun time overall, so it's not like the game is actually bad or anything, just fudges up the execution while surprisingly nailing the natural feel of things. This is a game I could really see turning into something special if RAD gets the chance to further it. But for just this game taken on its own, it's...eh.
First, and most obvious, the game is obviously gorgeous. This is by far the best looking game I have ever seen and played, the sheer amount of detail is mindboggling. I would pick up collectibles just to move them around in my hand to see the light hit off of the paper, because that shit just looked good. I didn't have any issues with the black bars--part of me is wondering if The Evil Within got me used to it, but even in that I would have issues with the camera at times. It felt completely natural in this game.
The gameplay also feels a lot better than I expected. The general act of moving Galahad around, the feel and impact of the shooting, etc. This is especially shown with some of the different weapons, primarily the Arc Gun and the Three Crown shotty, both were capable of doing tremendous damage that made you feel really damn powerful, with the gibs to match.
But I keep mulling over what I think about the combat itself. It does feel good, but something about the game always felt a little strange to me, and I think it's the AI. I played on hard with no autoaim(which I think most people should, it wasn't difficult), but quickly realized that...well, you can just kinda relax wherever you are. The game is essentially shooting fish in a barrel, as the AI will never move up on you. The game instead uses a few enemy TYPES to do this, but the normal enemies will stay back. The most often used are shotgunners, who will move right up to flank and kill you. This is where blacksight comes in, and seeing some discussion on this page about it, I'm not surprised to see it not used by many...it's a mechanic that is introduced without feeling impactful, but is actually grossly powerful. Anytime you see a shotgunner, blacksight and kill them. Nobody will flank you, and you can take your time with everyone else. A couple more things can happen, like the grenade tossing enemies or the armored guys wielding a detonator, but they seemed infrequent(and it seemed like normal enemies didn't toss grenades at all?). To add even more to the fire, if you managed to go down from the standard enemies, you meander around on the floor before drinking and can fully regain your blacksight to make it even easier to clear a room. They won't move up to execute or finish the job.
The only other mixup here are fighting lycans, which straight up suck. They are badly designed enemies and sections from multiple angles. RE4 is a game I find to be a bastion of brilliant design and pacing, so I'll use it as a comparison in a few ways here. First, context sensitive dodging. This can work fine as a mechanic--enemies in RE4 will sometimes have specific attacks that let you do this, but it's used best when they have a multitude of attacks in their arsenal to begin with. Lycans do not do that, they only have one attack where they come out from hiding and run at you. Cue a dodge. Now look at Salvador in RE4, who has one attack. This guy is intimidating as a motherfucker, and there are times where you can fight more than one at once. He has one move, but it is a huge threat and doesn't just have X TO DODGE. He would be a joke in that case. The same trick above where you just hang back works against these guys, too. You can immediately tell when you enter a lycan room since there's boxes and shit making the arena look like a maze, but if you just stand back near the entrance they can't jump out and take you by surprise, they'll dumbly blitz at you in succession as you dodge them all and pepper them down. In a game where the knights of the order are fighting halfbreeds, I expected them to have a bigger role in gameplay. Instead I am thanking my lucky stars they only show up around three times, because they are a huge disappointment. The Elder Lycans also feel like a casualty of overly cinematic, as you are never left to the wolves (sorry) while fighting. Instead it's an intro cutscene that segues into walking backwards, which is a cutscene where he can smell you, which is basically a QTE, etc. If you just had natural gameplay and saw him transform which forced to to run, it would be way more intense. There are also stealth sections littered around, but you get no opportunity of something like that while evading a foe like this. It all was overly controlled and could have been more.
So...I'm in a weird place with the core of the game. The shooting feels good, but I felt like it was letdown by the design of so many other factors in the game. It's a strong base to work with for a sequel, if nothing else, if RAD understands the proper way to iterate it.
Some other spots in the game that could use tweaking are the collectibles. These are almost fine but missing a few crucial things to make them really work. For one, they are just damn near impossible to actually read. Like what the hell. There's nothing like TLoU where documents could be written in any matter of cursive or small text while always having a specific button to just display the text. Newspapers in particular would have forced me to actually stand up and get really close to the screen, so I never read anything but the headlines. The implementation of those cylinders that are basically audio logs also felt undercooked, as it forced you to pause and navigate to a menu to listen to them. Then there's the final and oh so important of actually being able to track them, there is no way to review what you've looked at which would have helped with the whole being damn hard to actually read thing, as it forces you to care in that very instance or forget about it entirely. But it also means that while going through the chapter select which is nicely broken up into even more scenes, it has no simple "x/x" listing which would have an otherwise simple task mindnumbing to deal with. After completing the game, I had missed one newspaper, 2 of those audio logs, and already viewed all the objects. Right now I only have photos/documents which are grouped together, and I know I got most of them. Hell if I know where to look, though.
The only other issues I really had was with pacing. Instead of listing arbitrary playtime hours, the game just feels short. It still has a slow intro, and when things feel like they're really starting to pick up
around the airship blowing up
namely with vampires, and Lord Hastings being one
Still, I had a fun time overall, so it's not like the game is actually bad or anything, just fudges up the execution while surprisingly nailing the natural feel of things. This is a game I could really see turning into something special if RAD gets the chance to further it. But for just this game taken on its own, it's...eh.
hastethedav
Member
That section was wonderful.
There are some great areas ahead but are not that kind of tone.
I still cannot get over the sheer amount of detail and love poured into each and every corner of this game. Especially the hospital
Three dongs were shown.
Random rebel in the brothel.
Lord Hastings (when you encounter him in the mansion)
Sir Lucan (at the end of the game)
By "pandering" I just mean there isn't a need to show them. With all the control they have over camera angles in these cut scenes, they could have obscured them. It wasn't a big deal but it just struck me as "okay, we'll there's another one". >.>
Yeah, I tried to remain in cover until they reloaded but it seemed like they reloaded pretty fast when I popped up to get some shots in.
I found that explosives and the arc gun worked well against those armored guys. Though they were tough when neither of those weapons were available.
I've got a question about the end of the game:
When Galahad arrived to Tesla's lab to confront Lucan it looked like he picked up a new weapon. Was that indeed something new or did I just mistake what I saw?
It was definitely new. Such a ridiculous tease considering how phenomenal it looked. Hopefully there is story DLC coming soon that has us using the hell out of it.
shinobi602
Member
No, it was definitely a new electric type weapon. I was thinking we were going to get to use it on the last boss but alas.
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
Just realized the game only has the one sniper rifle.
I would enjoy a larger caliber sniper rifle that explodes heads on impact.
I would enjoy a larger caliber sniper rifle that explodes heads on impact.
Parhelion69
Member
Same here.
This game HAS to be played in hard, then you'll notice some interesting AI behaviour. Specially when they gang up on you, you get shotgunners getting close, gunners chipping your life away (very fast), and granadiers screwing your tactics of staying in just one cover. And sometimes you have very little time to react to the grenade, since it seems it was "cooked" before (or maybe because of the distance). For instance, the final shootout was very hard, took me many retries.
I wish there was one more difficulty setting unlocked after you finish the game, a really hard one (and needed for the platinum), that'd been a good decision.
Always-honest
Banned
Should a RaD dev read this, any chance there will be:
1.Skipable cutscenes on a second playthrough
2. The numer of collectibles found in each chapter (like 8/10, etc)
3. Some sort of survivalmode where you can pick up all kind of weapons. Maybe co-op?
Thanx!
1.Skipable cutscenes on a second playthrough
2. The numer of collectibles found in each chapter (like 8/10, etc)
3. Some sort of survivalmode where you can pick up all kind of weapons. Maybe co-op?
Thanx!
It looked like an electricity spouting machine gun.