The people complain about cross-gen games and also complain about current gen games not being “next gen” looking
- Thread starter remember_spinal
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GymWolf
Member
This is why i added the second part of the post that you didn't quoted.
The machine are cheap 500 dollars box and we all know that, but on the hands of the usual wizards they are gonna show good things (with a lot of trade offs because the blanket is not big enough to cover all the corners)
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I believe it's both. 4K is resource hungry and so is 60fps. 16 milliseconds is not a lot of time for multiple calculations: graphics, animations, AI, physics, etc
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I still believe we will be blown away next year and beyond. The current generation exclusives out already look awesome and it's gonna get way better
supernova8
Banned
Yes that is true but, let me just go run you through the games shown at the PS4 reveal event in 2013 that (to me) looked next gen:
(not necessarily exclusives, that's not the point, and really the point is that this is before we look at the next-gen looking Xbox One games)
TL;DR it took less than 2 years for us to see a shit load of next-gen looking games last generation.
1) Knack
2) Killzone Shadow Fall
3) Driveclub
4) Infamous Second Son (CGI so I'll deduct a point here)
5) Deep Down (yeah never came out but still hype)
6) Agni's Philosophy (not a game but hype)
7) Watch Dogs (got a downgrade but definitely looked next-gen at the time)
Then let's look at the games (that I think looked next gen at the time) shown shortly after at the E3 2013 Playstation conference:
1) Batman Arkham Origins
2) The Order 1886
3) Infamous Second Son (gameplay/definitely in-engine, looked great)
4) Final Fantasy (can't remember the name, went on to be come XV, got a downgrade but still fuckin hype)
Then let's look at the ones shown at the E3 2014 Playstation conference:
1) Far Cry 4
2) No Man's Sky (lol, I mean as a concept it seemed next-gen at the time, execution wasn't great of course)
3) Batman Arkham Knight (and it looked even better than Origins)
4) Uncharted 4
This is not even counting the Xbox One games that looked next-gen, which I'll list now:
(There really wasn't much at the reveal event so I'll skip to E3 2013)
1) Ryse: Son of Rome
2) Sunset Overdrive
3) Forza Motorsport 5
4) Quantum Break
5) Witcher 3 (yeah downgraded, but hype as fuck at the time)
And Xbox E3 2014:
1) Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare (IMO the first one that looked sort of next-gen)
2) Assassin's Creed Unity
3) Dance Central (just kidding, keeping you on your toes)
4) Witcher 3 again (downgraded from the initial reveal but still looked awesome)
5) The Division (looks a bit scripted but visuals weren't that much different at release)
Anyway
Compare that to what we saw (not necessarily released or even given a release date/window) in the first two years after PS5 and Xbox Series were first properly revealed and there's your answer.
Last generation, there were loads of games we could point to and say "that looks next gen, I definitely want a PS4/Xbox One". I'm talking proper games that seem to be running on new engines and visually doing stuff we hadn't seen in the PS3/360 era.
This generation, I would argue we had Ratchet & Clank, Demons Souls, and I guess Horizon FW on second thought (even though I felt something was off at first)... around launch and that was it.
Since then we've had a few bits and pieces but it's been pretty dry.
On top of that, it just seems like developers either cannot be bothered anymore, don't have the permission/budget to try, or most of the visionaries have just shut up shop and left, and we're left with people pumping out clones of past greats.
There's no way that we are anywhere close to what the PS5 and Xbox Series X can do. People keep saying the consoles are underpowered but come on the PS4 and Xbox One were really underpowered when they released and look at the absolute gems we got in that generation. Ratchet & Clank offered a glimpse but there hasn't been a whole lot since then. There's nothing to get excited about. It might be because it's still almost impossible to get a next-gen console, and obviously the pandemic has impacted development schedules, but that doesn't change the end result that this generation is boring as fuck.
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
Oh excuse me, enthusiast gamer.
Guilty_AI
Member
Sounds more like a tech enthusiast.
KXVXII9X
Member
I don't really care much for photorealism, but I still think this generation has been disappointing for physics and AI. Overall presentation has been a hit or miss. I find some of the recent games jarring due to the higher graphical fidelity but a lack of physics and AI to go with it.
Art direction is more important to me and it is why I am still a Nintendo fan. I'm more excited for Mario and Rabbits Sparks of Hope than I am with most titles that released this year. Stray and Sifu are one of the most stunning games for me due to their impressive environmental design and creative use of lighting and textures. I think what is lacking is talent, risk taking, and resources.
And yes, I am very excited for FFXVI and think it looks incredible. The slight stylization helps.
Art direction is more important to me and it is why I am still a Nintendo fan. I'm more excited for Mario and Rabbits Sparks of Hope than I am with most titles that released this year. Stray and Sifu are one of the most stunning games for me due to their impressive environmental design and creative use of lighting and textures. I think what is lacking is talent, risk taking, and resources.
And yes, I am very excited for FFXVI and think it looks incredible. The slight stylization helps.
The Infectious Paradox
Gold Member
Focus on what really matters - advancing physics, ai, and lighting. Graphical fidelity is good.
I don't think the games mentioned are truly next gen, they're "kinda" next gen in the sense the fidelity still progress subtly and globally, and i also think they're all very good looking. It's fascinating the level we reached.
But we need the Matrix demo level kind of game, to lift any doubts and have hope for a real gap.
But we need the Matrix demo level kind of game, to lift any doubts and have hope for a real gap.
KXVXII9X
Member
That is an obvious outlier and the biggest catalyst of me focusing on AI. It ruined a lot of games for me solely due to how reactive and varied the AI NPCs were in the game. It blew my mind. Most game NPCs feel so robotic.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Well said, spinal.
The whiny babies on the forum will never be happy about anything.
NightmareFarm
Member
At this point i've gave up on seeing a noticeable leap in graphics. And I don't think I would want to see that either because then we will go back to 30fps as an enforced standard. But I would like to see games taking advantage of the SSDs in the next gen consoles to change game design. Forspoken looks like it's doing this which is one of the reason's i'm very excited for that game to come out.
proandrad
Member
I feel like it has taken 2 generations just to get to what I thought ps3 and 360 were going to be. PS4/X1 finally got us to baseline full HD(1080p) and PS5/XBS baseline 60fps. I really hate it when people try to argue over removing the later option because it means we will never get away from having inferior performance in console games. If 60 fps is made the standard for all console games we only have to deal with a small graphics jump for 1 generation and next generation everyone will be happy in terms of the graphics and performance. This will be better for everyone in the long run.
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TheDraconian
Member
Brilliant post.
We've reached a point of a graphical peak in games. Games going forward will only look marginally better than they do now. So investing heavily in graphics isn't worth it imo.
Making the game have advanced game mechanics and systems, giving the game world an authentic feel and innovating over the core game design is all I need.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
To each their own on graphics developers prepare video games for audiences of now not audiences of the past or future.
Balducci30
Member
Horizon 5 looks good but it didn't blow me away, flight sim technically looks very good but I'd already played it on my PC on a 1080, I don't really like sims either. I forgot about Hellblade 2 looks amazing if it matches the quality they displayed in that trailer, it's really the only game I've seen that looks the way I imagined these next gen games could look - just feel like there should be more games hitting closer to that quality instead of like 3 or 4 that look even close
kyliethicc
Member
when this is a PS4 game I can understand the confusion
SafeOrAlone
Banned
This is a strong point, but to me it just proves that processing power, or more power in general, isn't everything.
But in terms of potential, we know the games are being limited. I suppose we need to trust the developers will take advantage of that, but I'd still ask what the point of new consoles are, if they can't do things the old ones...simply can't do.
YukiOnna
Member
This. It's just sad.
Or seeing people say RE4make doesn't look good enough. Sure, but it still looks good and that should be more than enough.
RE4 remake looks better than most games released so far.
It's a beautiful marriage of nice textures, lighting, detail and art direction. I saw the trailer and I said 'wow'.
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supernova8
Banned
Sort of like Kameo on 360. Not necessarily an awesome game but looked next-gen somehow.
100%. This and a select few other games really just prove that hardly anyone squeezed every last drop out of last gen (let alone this gen) and we have spinal tap (or whinal crap, amirite guyz) over here already bloody giving up on visual leaps on PS5 and Xbox Series.when this is a PS4 game I can understand the confusion
I think part of the reality is just that we're on our first set of consoles where it's more or less the same architecture as the preceding gen but just significantly beefed up (ie pretty bog standard PCs, not a lot of custom hardware) so the hurdle to carrying on cross-gen is that much lower. Compare that to making a PS4 and then spending time to get it working on PS3 (I'm no engineer but from what I remember, the PS3 was a nightmare to develop but the PS4 was easy). I guess the Cell processor was a blessing in disguise because companies dropped that shit fairly quickly (not including the big third party stuff that always ends up being cross-gen for ages, like Battlefield, FIFA, etc.).
We can ridicule Neil Fuckman all we like but we have to hand it to the Naughty Dog team. They basically embarrass everyone else.
I suppose the counter point would be that current gen games will eventually look like TLOU2 as standard and then whatever Naughty Dog and co put out should be a big leap over that. Hope so anyway...
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kyliethicc
Member
cringe
PaintTinJr
Member
I think most of us that have been complaining - haven't done well enough in explaining why.
Take HZFW, Graphically the issues are that it is merely an optimisation of the first game on better hardware, with a few new polish graphical techniques thrown on top. Which in itself isn't really the problem.
The lack of next gen feeling (for me) is the lack of the game trying to hide the seams of it's by-the-numbers design which hasn't improved/advanced. Within the first two levels, the game's design has communicated the full scope of the design, where the early missions are somewhere between narrow and wide-narrow, and it makes no attempt to hide it or make it an acceptable backdrop - any better than UC1 did on PS3 near 20years before - even though the game world searching is largely open world.
The interface with the FW creatures also seems largely the same. For anyone that found them boring clunky horde like in HZD - or merely acceptable as battles - Guerrilla haven't improved that to bring the Metal Gear Solid or Death Stranding styled connection to the battles, and the skill tree system is just immersion killing - more so in a sequel where the gamer should have already paid their dues. Instead, they spend most of the first 3hours of the game killing the players immersion IMO, with dragging the gamer through these systems, that needed improved or eliminated, rather than more explanation time foisted on the gamer.
For me, next-gen isn't just about graphics - although when you see optimisation of pre-calculation and compression on textures, lowering the per pixel fidelity(complexity) of the previous game, with everything looking good, but not coherent as one picture, or not single pixel sharp (as has been my complaint with all DirectX rasterization on PC/Xbox for 20years) but many little layers sliding across one-another, it does become distracting - but largely I expect next-gen games to up the immersion, by simplifying or removing systems that break immersion too much.
DeS remake probably sits on the apex of not needing overhauled to look next-gen with superior rendering and spectacular immersion, and Returnal's immersion is top drawer, where you don't have time to think and decompose what you are looking at, and the systems are only in your face when you want them to aid your progress, and each time you die the game looks different next time, anyway, so your mind is always in a seamless, no limits immersion IMHO.
Take Miles Morales, entering big buildings seamlessly isn't even an option, we are still getting a hatch animation to hide loading screens. There's nothing improving immersion in the game over the original spiderman outing on PS4, and despite the excellent lighting improvement, the large skill tree and costume collecting, once again feel like a gamer penance IMO, which isn't very next-gen.
That UE5 demo had a lot of optimization to go. Shipping titles will run better.
I'll say it again. The specs Sony and MS put in these flagship consoles is truly astounding for the price.
Fess
Member
Once UE5 games comes out people will wake up and realize they actually don't want next-gen only games. Because 30fps will be back.
Mobilemofo
Member
When A.I. advances significantly, that's when we will see games come into their own. Being actually challenged by enemies. The gfx is pretty much there, as is sound design, so A.I. should be focused on.
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