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[Shmunter]

The xsx ram will give better performance, thats what Microsoft were thinking.

Albert Einstein ladies and gentlemen....

Nah just kidding, you’re alright.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You used the wrong terminology, a split RAM setup would refer to separate pools. This is a unified pool comprised of different RAMDAC's.

There's a difference.

Call it whatever you at the end of the day PS5 has the ram advantage.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Call it whatever you at the end of the day PS5 has the ram advantage.

 

[Kenpachii]

The ram speeds are split 560gb/s | 360gb/s

Only 10gb/s(-2.5gb for OS) is available vs PS5 which has all of it's ram running the same speed (ie not split into two pools like XSX)
-whatever the OS uses.

Eurogamer.

"Memory performance is asymmetrical - it's not something we could have done with the PC," explains Andrew Goossen "10 gigabytes of physical memory [runs at] 560GB/s. We call this GPU optimal memory. Six gigabytes [runs at] 336GB/s. We call this standard memory. GPU optimal and standard offer identical performance for CPU audio and file IO. The only hardware component that sees a difference in the GPU."

In terms of how the memory is allocated, games get a total of 13.5GB in total, which encompasses all 10GB of GPU optimal memory and 3.5GB of standard memory. This leaves 2.5GB of GDDR6 memory from the slower pool for the operating system and the front-end shell. From Microsoft's perspective, it is still a unified memory system, even if performance can vary. "In conversations with developers, it's typically easy for games to more than fill up their standard memory quota with CPU, audio data, stack data, and executable data, script data, and developers like such a trade-off when it gives them more potential bandwidth," says Goossen.

Xbox series X memory setup is superior towards PS5. That box will never use more than 10gb of v-ram, the same goes for PS5.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Eurogamer.



Xbox series X memory setup is superior towards PS5. That box will never use more than 10gb of v-ram, the same goes for PS5.

PS5's 16-whatever the OS uses will still be more likely a few gigs more.
More is better.
12.1>10.3

 

[semicool]

XSX memory setup that someone on beyond3d.com forums posted, translate from Spanish, XSX gets it's full bandwidth: http://disruptiveludens.com/ps5-y-xsx-gddr6-y-acceso-a-memoria

 

[Three]

What is it going to change exactly?

The way games are designed. no unskippable cutscene to allow loading, no crack to crawl through while the rest of the level loads, your max speed in open world games. Things like that.

 

[bitbydeath]

Call it whatever you at the end of the day PS5 has the ram advantage.

Did MS say why they went that route?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Did MS say why they went that route?

Not that im aware of but my guess is cost.

 

[rnlval]

All 16gb's CANNOT run at 560gb/s so wrong again.

Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs

This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …

www.eurogamer.net

"Memory performance is asymmetrical - it's not something we could have done with the PC," explains Andrew Goossen "10 gigabytes of physical memory [runs at] 560GB/s. We call this GPU optimal memory. Six gigabytes [runs at] 336GB/s. We call this standard memory. GPU optimal and standard offer identical performance for CPU audio and file IO. The only hardware component that sees a difference in the GPU."

In terms of how the memory is allocated, games get a total of 13.5GB in total, which encompasses all 10GB of GPU optimal memory and 3.5GB of standard memory. This leaves 2.5GB of GDDR6 memory from the slower pool for the operating system and the front-end shell.

XSX's CPU, audio and file IO pipes wouldn't notice extra memory bandwidth above 336.1 GB/s.

OS reserve is located in 6GB 336 GB/s memory address range.

 

[rnlval]

PS5's 16-whatever the OS uses will still be more likely a few gigs more.
More is better.
12.1>10.3

It's actually 12.1472 vs 10.275

(52 x 64) x 1.825 x 2 = 12,147.2 GFLOPS or 12.1472 TFLOPS

(36 x 64) x 2.230 x 2 = 10,275.84‬ GFLOPS or 10.27584 TFLOPS

 

[Trainsmove]

This isn't true.

The PS5 is a glorified RX5700XT with RDNa 2 cus. With the same BW of 446GB/S. Sad.

 

[Shmunter]

What MS were thinking is that 448 GB/s would cripple their platform using the 256-bit bus offered to them by default by AMD.

So they engineered something more expensive and significantly faster.

The are no hoops. If 80%+ of your memory accesses aren't by the GPU in the "optimal" 10GB then you've somehow managed to eliminate the GPU as an important factor in games. And also make a CPU use far more bandwidth that it should ever be able to, even with AVX256.

If you're not a concern troll, you actually do know what MS were thinking.

They were thinking "bandwidth - we fucking need more".

They engineered something faster by gimping 6/16 of the memory speed slower than a PS5 and everything is just perfect? I’ve seen a unicorn shooting rainbows out it’s ass, now I’ve heard one talk tech too.....lol

Nah, bro you’re alright, nothing wrong with unbridled optimism.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

It's ironic how those who laugh at others for "SSD, SSD, SSD!" end up becoming the very people they're mocking, i.e. they keep talking about storage and decompression while there are 4 other steps to the storage-to-memory process: coherency, memory mapping, file I/O, and check-in/load management.

Agreed mate.

I don't know anything regarding memory and how its setup or operates and i will not pretend to know either. I'd rather the more informed users here explain that to me. This is why i'm on a gaming forum. Because its fascinating to me to know how these consoles work but sometimes that discussions cannot be had because users have to console war or troll.

 

[sendit]

The PS5 is a glorified RX5700XT with RDNa 2 cus. With the same BW of 446GB/S. Sad.

Fully agree with this statement. *Points and laughs at PS5s unified sustained ram bandwidth solution*.

Microsoft has made the impossible --> possible. They took the bandwidth of a RX 5600 XT (192-bit bus at 336 GB/s) and tacked on a an extra set of blistering fast ram with a 320-bit bus @560 GB/s.

 

[Deto]

I have a question, what could be the worse case games be that ceny alluded to? I assume most developers are going to try and push the PS5 to its limits.

Horizon Zero Dawn MAP.

 

[Sosokrates]

Not that im aware of but my guess is cost.

It would be cheaper for them to do what Sony did and buy 8 2gb chips.

 

[Johnny Silver]

The PS5 is a glorified RX5700XT with RDNa 2 cus. With the same BW of 446GB/S. Sad.

I disagree. And I fail to see the point where "sad" fits into the equation. Gives the impression that you're writing this with ill intent.

With the IPC increase between RDNA 1 and RDNA 2 and the slight Tflop increase in comparison with the 5700XT, we may see an increase of 10-20% in favour of the PS5.

If the console is sold at 399€ then we are seeing a performance level greater than a 5700xt or a 2070 super for a price lower than either of them, especially if we have in mind all the other components (CPU/sound/drive/sdd) etc that fit the bill of materials of the PS5.

For 399€ this is very impressive so no, it's not "sad". If anything the correct word to be used is "impressive".

 

[Eliciel]

Fully agree with this statement. *Points and laughs at PS5s unified sustained ram bandwidth solution*.

Microsoft has made the impossible --> possible. They took the bandwidth of a RX 5600 XT (192-bit bus at 336 GB/s) and tacked on a an extra set of blistering fast ram with a 320-bit bus @560 GB/s.

this is pure gold of comedy, right there. The play of words is spectacular.

 

[ZywyPL]

We shall se the end results, but as past two generations clearly showed, unified pool of RAM <<< split pool of RAM, it just makes the developers life so much easier. The XBX RAM works in a similar fashion as it does on PC, where we have slower RAM for the CPU and faster RAM for the GPU, so its efficiency will come down to how much of the games data is for CPU-only, GPU-only, and shared between the two, if the CPU-only data will take 3.5GB or more, there won't be much of an issue, otherwise the devs will have to figure out which of the shared or GPU-only data to put into the slower memory.

 

[Leyasu]

The way games are designed. no unskippable cutscene to allow loading, no crack to crawl through while the rest of the level loads, your max speed in open world games. Things like that.

Basically loading times. The way people keep talking, I was expecting major gameplay changes.

 

[Three]

Basically loading times. The way people keep talking, I was expecting major gameplay changes.

Those would be gameplay changes. How is being able to walk into every building, being able to traverse faster, and not having to do some boring gameplay section where you walk through a crevice to facilitate the game being able to keep up not gameplay changes?

 

[Leyasu]

Those would be gameplay changes. How is being able to walk into every building, being able to traverse faster, and not having to do some boring gameplay section where you walk through a crevice to facilitate the game being able to keep up not gameplay changes?

? Those things you just mentioned are just filler to hide the loading screen. Now, things will become more seamless without the filler. That is it in your example. I am not criticizing anything or anyone. More seamless and less loading screens is going to be amazing.
But the continued pushing of it’s going to change how games are designed is way over exaggerated.

 

[megreotsugua]

Basically loading times. The way people keep talking, I was expecting major gameplay changes.

Insane details and high resolution textures everywhere at every turn. A developer has talked about this already. Some just don't want to listen because it sounds like the PS5 has a big advantage. I guess to doubt is reasonable. We will see when the games are shown.

 

[quest]

Insane details and high resolution textures everywhere at every turn. A developer has talked about this already. Some just don't want to listen because it sounds like the PS5 has a big advantage. I guess to doubt is reasonable. We will see when the games are shown.

So it will have PC ultra textures?

 

[Leyasu]

Insane details and high resolution textures everywhere at every turn. A developer has talked about this already. Some just don't want to listen because it sounds like the PS5 has a big advantage. I guess to doubt is reasonable. We will see when the games are shown.

Waiting for the goods is best. How much longer will they take to load on the xsx?

 

[RespawnX]

You can compare quite well a 5700 XT to the 5700. Same number of CUs, 36 instead of 40 (10% less). However, to compensate the 10% CU difference between XT and non XT you need to overclock the chip by around 20%. Same goes for the XT overclocked and non overclocked, 20% overclock results in 10% more performance. Which shows clearly how strong RDNA 1.0 depends on CU and associated ROPs. You can find a plenty of overclock reports on the web, all pointing to the same scheme.

I suppose, that performance per clock will get some slight gains with RDNA 2.0. I doubt that the console will sustain 2,23 GHz but let's wait and see. In every case Performance should be around 10-15% over the 5700 XT plus all the RDNA 2.0 features, which are more important. When we make the calculation this way, XsX should be positioned between 2080 Super and 2080 Ti. XsX bandwith advantage equals more or less the compute power advantage, so nothing wrong here. Both went with a proper soluation for their chips. The bandwith parallels to RDNA 1.0 prove both right with their solution.

Anyway both systems have plently of proccesing power and I'm more excited to see how AMDs equivalent to Nvidia tensor core competes, as this could result in a limiting factor. i really doubt we are going to see the consoles for 399. PS5 has a smaller APU but they I/O solution is costly, also their fast NAND chips. And that's why we "only" got 36 CUs with high frequency on the PS5. They had to cut costs at one point to realize their vision of fast SSD implementation. A small, smaller APU was the logical decision here. To compensate, they pushed the clock to the maximum and beyond what I still doubt.

XsX on the other side has a big die and 2,4 Gb/s NAND isn't cheap either. I suspect that both companies will try to sell the systems without any loss but considering the actual pandemic crisis and the resulting financial troubles they can't go much further than 499. So system should be launch between 450 and 520. Which is very cheap compared to PCs with comparable power.

Finally, assuming that 2x theoretical speed will result in 2x practical speed is simply utopic. This may work under perfect laboratory conditions but not in reality. For good reason the loading time of the Spiderman demo was "only" 10x faster and not 50x> faster as it could be theoretically. At some point the practical limitations of the other components take effect and here the XsX is ahead. Whether the developers on the PS5 will be able to compensate this ... to be seen in the next years. I don't think, the difference will be as big as some suppose.

 

[megreotsugua]

So it will have PC ultra textures?

More than that. PS5 SSD and I/O throughput is unprecedented. Cerny specifically targeted streaming of LARGE assets on the fly because he has a specific goal in mind. We will find out when games are shown.

 

[megreotsugua]

Waiting for the goods is best. How much longer will they take to load on the xsx?

We'll find out if XSeX I/O throughput can do what the PS5 can do. It's not only about raw SSD speed.

Megatextures everywhere. Insane details everywhere.

 

[Shmunter]

We shall se the end results, but as past two generations clearly showed, unified pool of RAM <<< split pool of RAM, it just makes the developers life so much easier. The XBX RAM works in a similar fashion as it does on PC, where we have slower RAM for the CPU and faster RAM for the GPU, so its efficiency will come down to how much of the games data is for CPU-only, GPU-only, and shared between the two, if the CPU-only data will take 3.5GB or more, there won't be much of an issue, otherwise the devs will have to figure out which of the shared or GPU-only data to put into the slower memory.

Shared memory offers benefits beyond GPU memory here and CPU memory there. All processors can work on a single shared data without need to duplicate and push data over a bus.

And when we introduce further dedicated processors like for sound, then intermingling becomes even more so. Now we’re even talking ray traced sound, so gfx card needs to work on sound data etc.

Putting things into memory categories is not so clear cut, less so than ever.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

To my best knowledge no, what is written here in the Eurogamer / DF article is pretty much the same thing as was revealed by Sony, except for the clocks:

PS5 and Xbox Series X GPU specs leak: how powerful is next-gen?

A remarkable story unfolded last April where it seemed that an intrepid explorer of the 3DMark benchmark database stumb…

www.eurogamer.net

Nnnno, pretty sure that was the source of Xbox dudes insisting the GPU was RDNA1

 

[treemk]

Let's put this shit to bed once and for all.

Can a PC have more raw power, IE better specs, but still underperform compared a PC with less raw power, but more coordination between the parts?

If yes, Sony may have better looking games

If no, Microsoft has better looking games, hands down.

No because the PCs will still use the same architecture and run the same software, there's no way to make it have "more coordination" like a console would.

 

[Yoshi]

Nnnno, pretty sure that was the source of Xbox dudes insisting the GPU was RDNA1

As far as I know that was the "techpowerup" leak which also got the amount of RAM and the speed of the memory bus wrong. So basically it extended the Github leak with a bunch of bullshit. The Github leak itself was fine though.

 

[GamingKaiju]

I must say this thread has delivered.

It's good to see the console warring hasn't stopped but for me and my salt and pepper beard my fanboy days are behind me. Just enjoy dem games!!!

 

[mitchman]

I suppose, that performance per clock will get some slight gains with RDNA 2.0.

The performance per watt is the real kicker with RDNA2 with its 50% reduction. This is why PS5 can clock so high and still remain within the power budget.

 

[Shmunter]

I must say this thread has delivered.

It's good to see the console warring hasn't stopped but for me and my salt and pepper beard my fanboy days are behind me. Just enjoy dem games!!!

No they’re not. You’ll get sucked in. Lol, just jokes.

 

[GamingKaiju]

No they’re not. You’ll get sucked in. Lol, just jokes.

10 years ago I would have been knee deep in this shit but now it just doesn't concern me, enjoy the games have fun on whatever platform you own but it's always best to be a multiplat owner

 

[Slings and Arrows]

No because the PCs will still use the same architecture and run the same software, there's no way to make it have "more coordination" like a console would.

Wait i'm confused.

Off-the-shelf PC parts, put in a console, are more powerful than the same parts placed in to a PC?

So, the same hardware can be more or less powerful than the baseline, depending on the software used?

 

[B_Boss]

Wait i'm confused.

Off-the-shelf PC parts, put in a console, are more powerful than the same parts placed in to a PC?

So, the same hardware can be more or less powerful than the baseline, depending on the software used?

I observe your thinking and I’d say that it’s not necessarily about the power per se, but engineering said power so that it works and performs the best it possibly can alongside other hardware components within the same environment.

Consoles traditionally seems to excel at this (please tech-wizards of Gaf correct me if I’m wrong !) and in particular, nextgen consoles.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

I observe your thinking and I’d say that it’s not necessarily about the power per se, but engineering said power so that it works and performs the best it possibly can alongside other hardware components within the same environment.

Consoles traditionally seems to excel at this (please tech-wizards of Gaf correct me if I’m wrong !) and in particular, nextgen consoles.

In theory then, could an 'off-the-shelf' console with more powerful components, be less... Powerful/able than a console with bespoke parts that are rated comparatively lower?

 

[NathanDiego]

Xbox fans really use those TFlops as the only factor for performance.

This is going to be fun when both consoles launch.

Yes, it is.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

The 104th thread on it will make it true.

Well, more threads will surely make it so.

Now the damage control to negate raw power begins. This console war is turning out to be so entertaining and desperate.

Why are excuses being made for Sony on a daily basis? Show the fucking thing and show some games instead of force feeding us this pandering bs praising its super secret powers.

Less is better!

The PS5 is a glorified RX5700XT with RDNa 2 cus. With the same BW of 446GB/S. Sad.

Hey, which one of you guys necrobump this old crazy thread?

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Sony should be able to enhance their BC then.

 

[regawdless]

Reading some of the old posts is really funny. So many eaten crows.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

The smugness from Xbox fans in this thread

 

[onQ123]

That OP!

 

[assurdum]

In theory then, could an 'off-the-shelf' console with more powerful components, be less... Powerful/able than a console with bespoke parts that are rated comparatively lower?

The irony.

 

[Thirty7ven]

This thread ahahaba, rough times for X warriors.

 

[Coolwhhip]

The internet doesn't forget. But don't worry Xbox fans will bump this soon again once the full power of Xbox is unlocked.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Xbox fans really use those TFlops as the only factor for performance.

This is going to be fun when both consoles launch.

Wow I truly never thought this would happen.