The tragedy of Devil's Third

Punished Miku

Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops


I'm a huge fan of this game and knew a few people would enjoy this video. Also some broader critique of the gaming journalism bias against AA games that has been obvious for years.

I actually just hooked up the Wii U recently to try and make time for another run on DT.
 
I believe its actually the most valuable Wii U game now (or one of them). It's one of the few games stuck on that system and will most likely never see another release. Think I sold my copy for like $200-$300 a few years ago.
 
Watched this already. Video is on point about one thing. Mainstream game reviewers really have this weird sticking point about production values being a huge determining factor in a game's overall quality. Which, put politely, is a very flawed way of performing a review. Especially, when they compare them to larger titles which have the luxury of massive budgets. If the game is not in line with the polish of those AAA titles, then its almost certainly going to be deemed as "bad".

New game ideas and visionaries have an unbelievably difficult time breaking through with this absurd approach.
 
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This is an argument against putting easy mode in your game for a developer. People try your game, they play on easy mode, they say it sucks because none of the mechanics makes sense and there is no content in the game. Your game flops. Better they say it sucks because the game is too mean and nasty to them and doesn't have basic features like easy mode. Then the target audience will understand the reviewer is a moron and there still might be something to the game.
 
He's one of the best game reviewers.

Who, the electric underground guy ?

The guy is insufferable and the literal definition of "hipster", liking some jank games just for the sake of liking them.
He does make some good points every now and then but God if the whole thing doesn't come off as pretentious shit.

All the games he's wanked for aren't good games and - in fact - don't have "good production values" (which he makes fun of others mentioning it).
Wanted dead was shit, Devil's third was shit, that recent game with the possession mechanic was shit and I'm sure his list of "great", super mediocre hipster games is equally shit.

A good game is a good game and there's no need for people to needlessly stan for it - and the exact opposite is still true, just because IGN shits on something doesn't mean the game is bad, just like it doesn't mean the same game is good just 'cause this guy tells us so.
 
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Who, the electric underground guy ?

The guy is insufferable and the literal definition of "hipster", liking some jank games just for the sake of liking them.
He does make some good points every now and then but God if the whole thing doesn't come off as pretentious shit.

All the games he's wanked for aren't good games and - in fact - don't have "good production values" (which he makes fun of others mentioning it).
Wanted dead was shit, Devil's third was shit, that recent game with the possession mechanic was shit and I'm sure his list of "great", super mediocre hipster games is equally shit.

A good game is a good game and there's no need for people to needlessly stan for it - and the exact opposite is still true, just because IGN shits on something doesn't mean the game is bad, just like it doesn't mean the same game is good just 'cause this guy tells us so.
Stellar Blade fan spotted :goog_upside_down_face:
 
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I do like Mark's take on the game industry as a whole but some of his recent takes have been weird to say the least. The Nintendo died with Iwata video was just silly. I have started to feel that he is in danger of going down the Jim Sterling route and just posting ragebait on controversial takes on purpose because that's what his comments section and Patron subscribers like.
 
I do like Mark's take on the game industry as a whole but some of his recent takes have been weird to say the least. The Nintendo died with Iwata video was just silly. I have started to feel that he is in danger of going down the Jim Sterling route and just posting ragebait on controversial takes on purpose because that's what his comments section and Patron subscribers like.

His views on what makes good game design are super narrow and it centers around his love of arcade games. There is nothing wrong with that in of itself, but I tend to take his broader views with a huge grain of salt. His analysis of action games is always appreciated, but I do think he has a problem bridging the gap of what makes for sound game design and what makes a game with sound game design have mass appeal (think the latest Gungrave or Wanted Dead vs Vanquish or Resident Evil 4). I don't read his comment sections or his Patreon, but I do think he firmly believes in what he is saying in his videos even if he can come off bad (constantly dunking on IGN is message-board quality commentary).
 
His views on what makes good game design are super narrow and it centers around his love of arcade games. There is nothing wrong with that in of itself, but I tend to take his broader views with a huge grain of salt. His analysis of action games is always appreciated, but I do think he has a problem bridging the gap of what makes for sound game design and what makes a game with sound game design have mass appeal (think the latest Gungrave or Wanted Dead vs Vanquish or Resident Evil 4). I don't read his comment sections or his Patreon, but I do think he firmly believes in what he is saying in his videos even if he can come off bad (constantly dunking on IGN is message-board quality commentary).

His views align mostly with what I personally think are important for games to have. Solid mechanics that define the game, emphasis on replayability, options, cool art and visual design etc. I mostly play arcade style games like shmups etc and even play at arcades so I appreciate there is a voice out there giving these kinds of games a bit of appreciation.

However, that doesn't mean I instantly dismiss any game which doesn't exactly align with my tastes. I'll play adventure games, visual novels, and JRPGs any day of the week. He does have a tendency to just outright dismiss things for no good reason except that they're "lame" or "stupid" even though he didn't play them (Metroid Dread just one example) or just throw ports of classic games in the trash because they have one extra frame of input lag over other versions (Akai Katana and Saidaioujou Switch versions). I sometimes watch his live streams and it's a lot of him just saying genuinely infactual things to suit his point of view, and then mostly just moving on when the actual facts get pointed out to him. He kept going on in one about Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes and how Kojima hated the game and it destroyed Silicon Knights, even though Kojima didn't hate the game and Silicon Knights went under because of Too Human and their lawsuit against Epic. When he wades in bigger issues he definitely has a big blind spot and lack of knowledge. The Nintendo Died with Iwata video had a lot of inaccuracies and was in pretty bad taste IMO. His Nintendo Switch 2 review was pointless and even admitted to making just because he felt he had to.

I would definitely prefer it if he just stuck to critiquing niche games and give them their due, but now that YouTube and his Patreons are apparently his only source of income, it seems inevitable he will just start making content and slowly changing his views for what they like instead.
 
Devil's Third multi-player was awesome. I remembered going back in forth with 1st and 2nd on the leaderboards with another player. We ended up friending each other on IG.
 
I loved this game. It was pure fun. Some great boss battles.... The gameplay between swordplay and shooting may not be the best at either but feels great to me.

Booted it up again a couple months ago and I ended up playing for a few hours.
 
If Wanted Dead is of any indication, I don't think history has been too harsh on Devils Third too.

In an action game production values (not strictly graphics but animations, level design and input feedback) are fundamental, and Wanted Dead was really lacking in that department.

Appreciating low budget, janky, interesting-in-theory action games is an acquired taste, but again why should you learn to appreciate them? Don't waste your time
 
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Videogamertv
Burns went that hard on this game the director attacked him on facebook, to which they reacted to in a video.

Good times.
 
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If Wanted Dead is of any indication, I don't think history has been too harsh on Devils Third too.

In an action game production values (not strictly graphics but animations, level design and input feedback) are fundamental, and Wanted Dead was really lacking in that department.

Appreciating low budget, janky, interesting-in-theory action games is an acquired taste, but again why should you learn to appreciate them? Don't waste your time

This.

When I spend 60,70, 80 Eurodollars I expect not only the bare minimum but something actually good, don't need a contrarian or "hip" internet guy telling me what is or isn't good or, that a game is "misunderstood", I'm the buyer, I'm the gonna be the one judging that.

Just from the games shown in the video :
MGS rising revengeace is actually GOOD, it's got a stellar soundtrack, good animations, good gameplay mechanics , memorable characters good "production values®" but most importantly, it's a joy to play.
Gears of war...it's not a 9.4 (IGN score) for me, but, it's also not a bad game, sure, it's very simplistic gameplay wise and it may indeed score a couple of points more for the "production values ®" but, a bad game it is not.
As for God hand...I get what clover was trying to do but, between the "create your own combo" , inexistent and drab looking levels/ level design and the super wacky, hit or miss Japanese humor, well, the game just wasn't for me - does it mean that it's a 5 out of 10 game like IGN said ? No, but it wasn't because of the lack of production values, just that the game might not be everyone's cup of tea.
There's also no way that you could me with a straight face that something like Slitterhead is actually good or misunderstood, game plays like a PS2 game (and a very mediocre one at that), janky animations, janky combat, janky mechanics, janky...You'd have to pay me to play it, not the other way around.

When it comes to Wanted dead now... I must have about 55 hours invested and i still won't say that it's a "good" or "misunderstood" game and would NEVER recommend it to anyone, and it's not because it doesn't have the "production values ®" of something like a Sony first party game, it's just that it's buggy, repetitive, ridiculous in all the wrong ways ("GrEnAaaaDeeEee !"😉) and so undercooked that it just hurts, again, money that should have been spent in honing the gameplay and/or refining the whole experience was spent on... music track licensing and that fucking Maserati logo, also: Terribad voice acting, Terribad level design, Terribad bosses, terribad progression... everything about the game is bad - if you have any standards that is.
Same exact thing about Devil's 3rd, while itagaki might have had some good ideas and intentions about it, the whole execution and also - yes - "production values®" were complete and other shit, There's just no fun playing an action game that constantly dips down to the lower 30s, tears like a motherfucker, has a janky camera system and the weapons implementation and shooting feeling is completely an absolutely cack.

Sometimes, bad/mediocre games are just that, bad and/or mediocre and there's no need for internet contrarians to be telling us otherwise while - at the same time - trying to look/sound cool by showing how "different" or better they are compared to the "unwashed masses®".

I get that some.of these games have their..."charm" (heck, I like Suda51's output) but to say that they're actually good or misunderstood is factually incorrect.
 
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If Wanted Dead is of any indication, I don't think history has been too harsh on Devils Third too.

In an action game production values (not strictly graphics but animations, level design and input feedback) are fundamental, and Wanted Dead was really lacking in that department.

Appreciating low budget, janky, interesting-in-theory action games is an acquired taste, but again why should you learn to appreciate them? Don't waste your time
I mean, nobody is holding you back from playing safe reiterated ideas either. Not sure why some people have such a weird beef with games that don't have AAA backing and instead focus on exploring new ideas and concepts with the budget they got. Sounds like some gamers and reviewers alike are unwilling to accept or understand that not all games can have or got prestigious access to AAA investment and do the best with the resources + time at their disposal.

If something like the original Yakuza released today, it wouldn't have been able to establish itself and get written off pretty quickly.
 
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Appreciating low budget, janky, interesting-in-theory action games is an acquired taste, but again why should you learn to appreciate them? Don't waste your time
With that type of attitude we won't be getting any interesting games and instead we only get safe and boring AAA games.

People forgetting if it wasn't for "low budget" AA game like Demons Souls didn't become successful then we wouldn't be getting games like Bloodborne, Elden Ring and even Sekiro.

Some of best series starts out low budget AA games.
 
There's also no way that you could me with a straight face that something like Slitterhead is actually good or misunderstood, game plays like a PS2 game (and a very mediocre one at that), janky animations, janky combat, janky mechanics, janky...You'd have to pay me to play it, not the other way around.
You crack me up because I probably could convince you pretty easily lol :messenger_grinning_smiling: . You secretly love these games, and actually follow them very closely. You have an intense internal battle going on.

I actually really hope that Mark reviews Slitterhead as I expect he'll love it. Really nothing quite like it. I thought it was going to be some kind of Silent Hill-esque spin-off idea, but it ended up being a fairly tight, linear action game with horror aesthetics. I wouldn't even bother recommending it to people because it has many elements that are absolutely divisive, but I actually pushed myself to finish it on Nightmare and get the platinum and had a blast. Some of those later bosses you have to really have airtight tactics that maximize the body swapping, positioning, healing, and fully understanding how to exploit all the character abilities.
 
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With that type of attitude we won't be getting any interesting games and instead we only get safe and boring AAA games.

People forgetting if it wasn't for "low budget" AA game like Demons Souls didn't become successful then we wouldn't be getting games like Bloodborne, Elden Ring and even Sekiro.

Some of best series starts out low budget AA games.
Danjin spilling some truth beans here. People need to become more openminded and be willing to look past some "warts" if they want gameplay and genres to evolve. Not every game can have the spitshine equivalent of a supercar. Some of the biggest series in the industry started out small and humble then rose through cult followings or dedicated fanbases.

Another example is the original Nier. It got mauled by the majority of game reviewers. Only a vocal following managed to salvage it from obscurity.
 
With that type of attitude we won't be getting any interesting games and instead we only get safe and boring AAA games.

People forgetting if it wasn't for "low budget" AA game like Demons Souls didn't become successful then we wouldn't be getting games like Bloodborne, Elden Ring and even Sekiro.

Some of best series starts out low budget AA games.

I love quirky games like Gravity Rush or The Last Guardian, or even Slitterhead.

But too much is too much, some games are way too undercooked, janky and buggy to be considered "cult". Wanted Dead falls in this category, and I didn't play it but I have no doubt Devil's Third is the same if not even worse.

It's ok to celebrate quirk and original games but at some point you also have to be objective. A janky action game with bad animations, bad controls, bad ai, bad level design and bad bosses is a mortal sin and no amount of quirkiness is going to cover it all
 
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You crack me up because I probably could convince you pretty easily lol :messenger_grinning_smiling: . You secretly love these games, and actually follow them very closely. You have an intense internal battle going on.

I actually really hope that Mark reviews Slitterhead as I expect he'll love it. Really nothing quite like it. I thought it was going to be some kind of Silent Hill-esque spin-off idea, but it ended up being a fairly tight, linear action game with horror aesthetics. I wouldn't even bother recommending it to people because it has many elements that are absolutely divisive, but I actually pushed myself to finish it on Nightmare and get the platinum and had a blast. Some of those later bosses you have to really have airtight tactics that maximize the body swapping, positioning, healing, and fully understanding how to exploit all the character abilities.

I think you pretty much misunderstand the games he likes and the ones he doesn't. He doesn't like certain games just because they're divisive or have lots of seemingly complex mechanics. He likes games where gameplay is straightforward action that presents a constant risk and reward scenario using fundamental but solid mechanics. Hence why he loves Ninja Gaiden 2 and not Bayonetta, or why he likes Demon's Souls and doesn't really care for Elden Ring. Or why he absolutely dumped on Cygni and Resident Evil 4 Remake. Not that I know too much about Slitterhead, but judging from the people behind it, it is absolutely not the kind of game he is going to like or care about.
 
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I think you pretty much misunderstand the games he likes and the ones he doesn't. He doesn't like certain games just because they're divisive or have lots of seemingly complex mechanics. He likes games where gameplay is straightforward action that presents a constant risk and reward scenario using basic but solid mechanics. Hence why he loves Ninja Gaiden 2 and not Bayonetta, or why he likes Demon's Souls and doesn't really care for Elden Ring. Or why he absolutely dumped on Cygni and Resident Evil 4 Remake. Not that I know too much about Slitterhead, but judging from the people behind it, it is absolutely not the kind of game he is going to like or care about.
That may be true, but I could probably talk him into getting it lol. I won't though, and actually never really try to recommend people buy anything.
 
Was it the same people who made this who ended up making Wanted Dead (except Itagaki) ? Cause i can definitely see the connection in the gameplay. And probably the same expectations for the two games, that it was going to be some Ninja Gaiden meets Vanquish (especially in the perception that casuals have of those 2 games), which it wasn't at all.

Otherwise, this guy is probably my favorite video game youtuber. Very very good content.
 
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I believe its actually the most valuable Wii U game now (or one of them). It's one of the few games stuck on that system and will most likely never see another release. Think I sold my copy for like $200-$300 a few years ago.
I had mine WATA graded and sold it for 450 or something like that. It was a pristine unopened copy.
 
Ninja Gaiden Black is one of my top 5 all time favorite games. I spent many hundreds of hours on it, and it helped me get through a rough time in my life. I'll always be grateful for the original Xbox and the folks at Team Ninja who worked on it.

I remember seeing the trailer for this and feeling sorry for Itagaki. I never bothered to check it out.
 
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