We stopped having a sane and fair government around a week and a half ago.
I'm getting seriously worried that this is even in discussion.
WTF is going on here?
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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
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We stopped having a sane and fair government around a week and a half ago.
I'm getting seriously worried that this is even in discussion.
WTF is going on here?
A real-life reenactment of Treehouse of Horror VII.
At this point, I'd seriously not be all that surprised if some intelligence agency dug up some evidence that all of this was some alien plan involving world domination/destruction. At least then everything would make sense... kind of.
Okay, here's some kinda good news:
No Brexit Without Vote in Parliament, London Law Firm Warns.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-03/london-law-firm-says-brexit-can-t-happen-without-parliament-vote
Hopefully parliament will have a little more sense than Gove, Leadsom and May...who at this point would do anything to be the next primeminister.
No Brexit Without Vote in Parliament, London Law Firm Warns.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-03/london-law-firm-says-brexit-can-t-happen-without-parliament-vote
Hopefully parliament will have a little more sense than Gove, Leadsom and May...who at this point would do anything to be the next primeminister.
Does anyone know the effect on pensions for EU residents that leaving the EU could have?
My mum is German but has been living here about 30 years and working for about 20 of those - and paid NI the whole time. I'm now pretty concerned that come her retirement in 10-15 years, her nationality will be used to screw her out of something she has been paying into in good faith. All this talk of forced deportations isn't helping things much either
My mum is German but has been living here about 30 years and working for about 20 of those - and paid NI the whole time. I'm now pretty concerned that come her retirement in 10-15 years, her nationality will be used to screw her out of something she has been paying into in good faith. All this talk of forced deportations isn't helping things much either
EdwardTeach
Member
That won't happen. They will be contractually bound to honour the pension. She will have UK residency status by now in any case, so her rights will be substantially stronger than a recent EU migrant.
The EU servers offer this page: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire-abroad/state-pensions-abroad/index_de.htm (in German)
It seems it's just a bit of paperwork.... relatively speaking.
You've alread said that, it wasn't a counter argument the first time around either.
Well you ignored all the posters that gave actual counter arguments...
CyclopsRock
Member
Yeah, because I think you're still being intentionally dense. We live in a country with basically no codified constitution - everything we do is by convention. This isn't a code word for "illusory" or "made up", it simply means "not per written instructions". In fact, our woeful lack of separation between the executive and the legislature means that even if we had a PM without the support of parliament, there'd struggle to do much of anything anyway, which is something of a built-in safeguard. The reality is that the PM is chosen by the House of Commons and then appointed by the Queen in much the same way that legislation is written and passed by the House of Commons and then receives royal assent - ie, always.
GamerMax73
Member
Matter of opinion, personally I'd say he's been the best Chancellor since Ken Clarke.
The problem is a lot of MPs seem to be sitting behind Leave, even if they didn't campaign for it. Just because "the people have spoken".
Thats cool. The Leave voters, when the country invariably goes to shit once the button is pushed, can sit back with this news and their kool-aid and say 'hey brah, don't look at me - the Government did this.'!!!!
Where's your sense of adventure!
Ovek
7Member7
I love it when they spout that shit, they seem to have forgotten the 49% of the country that didn't want financial ruin and panic.
The Brexit campaigners just can't go back on their l̶i̶e̶s̶ word or it would ruin them and the opposing parties seem to be okay with letting the Brexiters and the country burn for their gain in the next elections.
formasymphonic
Member
Image isn't working for me (twitter images never do), care to post just the link?
Parties should give freedom of vote for each MP to vote according to his/her conscience. Each MP is also legitimated by popular vote and can decide on their own what's best for the country, even if it means disregard a referendum with such a close result. Of course they could in the end confirm the referendum vote. Is there any kind of pool of the Leave/Remain ratio on the MPs?
The Daily Telegraph Title:
BORIS JOHNSON DEMANDS POST-BREXIT PLAN
Camp Freddie
Member
Exactly. My MP campaigned for remain and lives in a region that narrowly voted remain (no stats at constituency level, but I suspect leave might've edged it due to it being an older, whiter area). He wrote to me saying that the people have spoken so he's fully backing the decision to leave.
Parliament would vote through Art.50 by a huge majority. Labour would vote 'leave' too, since they want to reclaim working class leave voters from UKIP.
A parliament vote would also mean "collective responsibility", or in other words no-one gets individually blamed for the decision and they can hide behind "the will of the people".
The only slim hope is that public opinion swings against leaving to such an obvious extent that MPs can say they're reflecting the will of the people by voting against the bill.
There are about 500 remain MPS and 150 leave MPS, with the vast majority of leave in the Conservative party. The problem with relying on parliament is that:
1) the conservative base is deeply anti- EU. They are the reason we are in this mess in the first place, as Cameron promised the referendum to satisfy them. Any Tory remain MP voting against the referendum is more than likely to be deselected at the next election.
2) outside of London 87% of Labour seats voted to leave, particularly in their northern heartlands. So if they vote remain, they risk losing their seat to UKIP / Tory voters next time.
Basically this entire mess has caught us at the worst time. We're right in the middle of a realignment in British politics which leaves us very vulnerable to this crap. Had the referendum happened 10 years ago Blair and Labour would have easily carried it over the line. If it happens in 10 (or even 5, maybe even 2) years time Remain wins because the white working class vote is shrinking and a younger, more multicultural electoral base is replacing them every year.
Ultimately, Labour needs to take one for the team and go against leaving the EU - whilst it's bad in the short term, it will reward them in the long term. Unfortunately our political system doesn't reward that sort of behavior, so we may end up activating article 50 and pulling out of Europe simply because the leadership of both main parties doesn't have the guts to do what is right rather than what is easy.
1) the conservative base is deeply anti- EU. They are the reason we are in this mess in the first place, as Cameron promised the referendum to satisfy them. Any Tory remain MP voting against the referendum is more than likely to be deselected at the next election.
2) outside of London 87% of Labour seats voted to leave, particularly in their northern heartlands. So if they vote remain, they risk losing their seat to UKIP / Tory voters next time.
Basically this entire mess has caught us at the worst time. We're right in the middle of a realignment in British politics which leaves us very vulnerable to this crap. Had the referendum happened 10 years ago Blair and Labour would have easily carried it over the line. If it happens in 10 (or even 5, maybe even 2) years time Remain wins because the white working class vote is shrinking and a younger, more multicultural electoral base is replacing them every year.
Ultimately, Labour needs to take one for the team and go against leaving the EU - whilst it's bad in the short term, it will reward them in the long term. Unfortunately our political system doesn't reward that sort of behavior, so we may end up activating article 50 and pulling out of Europe simply because the leadership of both main parties doesn't have the guts to do what is right rather than what is easy.
"Hey, the passengers voted and we decided to drive the Titanic into the iceberg. I know some people think this would kill us all but ultimately it's hard to predict what will happen in the future.
"Anyway, for some reason the captain jumped overboard. Do you want to be captain? You'll be responsible for our well-being while we crash into the iceberg. It's your chance to go down in history!"
I can't wrap my head around a Leave voter's mind that doesn't find that Johnson statement insulting.
No seriously, how come there aren't any (visible at least) backlash against Johnson and the whole leave campaign?
Edit: Johnson: "It's time for this nonsense to end..." So why the fuck did you start that nonsense in the first place?
Seriously, if Johnson has any political career left after that, britain has seriously fucked up and proven that idiocracy is a thing.
blazinglord
Member
Lol, that's some pretty optimistic thinking there. What makes you think young multicultural people are going to suddenly move and live in wastelands like Sunderland?
The end of a unified Europe is the best thing since a unified Europe.
Very much doubt it. The research Ashcroft did into the voting demographics shows that more than anything else the Leave vote was a cultural vote. More than age, wealth or location, the single biggest factors that identified whether you were a Leave or Remain voter were things like your view on the death penalty, or feminism.
The EU is a handy target for that reactionary, socially conservative movement that wants to "take our country back". It's the same forces that have been powering the Republicans for years - over there, they are more explicitly about the cultural wars but ultimately it seems to be the same driving forces. They won't go away after a victory, they aren't satisfied until we're back in 1950.
Camp Freddie
Member
The fucking fucker.
There are no words.
Can we forcibly deport him to Europe? That's a threat that they might listen to.
I'm not saying they will move - but it's the cities that are growing, not the rural and suburban areas, and the boundary commission will create more seats where the population is over time.
'But it's Boris, he's such a lad. He was totally going to save us and be an awesome PM and come up with an amazing Brexit strategy until that nasty Gove/the system/the La Li Lu Le Lo got to him'
Oh god, he even mentions Diana. He's a living parody for Christ's sake.
I really think we could sleepwalk into this, especially if no prominent Remain Labour leader arises.
He just needs to mention the EU can be countered with a daily glass of red wine and he will be Daily Mail centrefold 2016
there is no sleepwalking - everyone has their eyes wide open as they walk off the cliff.
BibiMaghoo
Member
To be fair Boris has always said it's up to the government to give answers as to what happens if we Brexit, he was pretty consistent on that by my view. He may have lied out of his stupid face about many things, but he never claimed he would have the answers or even that he should have them.
We should extradite him to America for non payment of income tax. Put that Wesley Snipes squeeze on him,
That was fine when everyone expected him to be a leading figure in the government. He was in David Cameron's cabinet before the referendum.
well it would have been nice for him to have some idea what might happen, considering he was campaigning for it. A bit irresponsible to push for something if you don't know what the realistic repercussions might be.
BibiMaghoo
Member
He is an MP, he didn't have a position in the cabinet.
I'm not saying what he did was a good thing, quite the opposite. But he never said it was up to him to provide those answers at the time, people just didn't want to hear it.
BossDarkseid
Member
Not sure how that makes him any less responsible for any relative chaos. If someone was leading a team i'm not sure how you wouldn't expect them to be responsible for a plan to deal with any consequences, it's what would be expected of someone in a position of power and responsibility, doesn't really matter if he promised it or not. Imo it's what you SHOULD do.
Thing is though, Boris isn't stupid. He would have known the £350 million implied NHS cash grab was bollocks, along with the destruction of Londons Financial hub as well as the huge employment and economic implications should Leave have won.
Sure he's not the PM or obliged to have the answers, but it's sickening his 'WHAT DO WE DO NOW, IT'S THE GOVERNMENTS FAULT WE ARE IN THIS MESS' spiel.
He is a child.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Ultimately, Boris fucked us to demonstrate he could lead well in order to further his political career. But he didn't mean to fuck us or himself, he is on many records, including from his close friends as being Pro-EU. He never wanted this to happen, and when trying to salvage it was gutted by people who knew it, and didn't agree. This was a disaster for him and has ended his career. He will not take responsibility for something he didn't want to happen, but did anyway because of Eton Games®
No, he attended. He had no role.
No, he attended. He had no role.
For now. The History books won't be kind to him.
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