Support NeoGAF

[Undead]

Not to defend them, but do you think someone living paycheck to paycheck - or purely off of benefits - cares about anyone who lost £5k from their savings?

Not from savings, this is now the extra costs of trying to build a life (house & business) outside of the UK and in the past 2 weeks it's cost me an extra £5k and I hate to think what the overall total could be now with the currency continuing to going down (it will probably cause me to have to place it all on hold for a while).

For people living paycheque to paycheque or on benefits to have voted leave just shows the stupidity involved in this entire thing, they're going to be first hit along with pensioners who already complain about not being able to afford heating.

There's going to be so many self inflicted tears come winter time

 

[ruttyboy]

Ehh, I pretty much live paycheck to paycheck but my girlfriend and I have been saving for a few years to take a trip to Japan, something which has also been ruined by said leave voters. I mean, we're still going, everything's booked, but we'll have the bare minimum spending money. So it's pretty hard for me to wish them nothing but the worst right now but it's obvious they're going to take the worst of all this at the end of the day, so I try.

Without meaning to sound snarky, that really isn't even close to living 'paycheck to paycheck'.

 

[KingSnake]

Good thing that people living from paycheck to paycheck will get a better life following their vote, right?

I can't envision a situation when any leader of Labour or any leader of the Tories comes out and says "Sorry guys, you are wrong, we aren't going to do what you want us to do." Farron can do it because he doesn't have an electorate that actually votes for him. For the rest - the ones who need to get elected - it's locked.

Yes, I can't see any realistic scenario in which the referendum is not validated. The only question here is how long it will take for UK to activate order 66.

 

[SKINNER!]

Ehh, I pretty much live paycheck to paycheck but my girlfriend and I have been saving for a few years to take a trip to Japan, something which has also been ruined by said leave voters. I mean, we're still going, everything's booked, but we'll have the bare minimum spending money. So it's pretty hard for me to wish them nothing but the worst right now but it's obvious they're going to take the worst of all this at the end of the day, so I try.

Lmao. Gotta be the most hilariously middle class thing I've ever read . This isn't living paycheck to paycheck.

 

[oti]

Someone brought up Japan.

"We trade with them and they don't have free movement."

lol

 

[Kabouter]

Le Pen talking.
Her rambling is kinda aimless.


"You will either change your course or you will dissapear"
"Europe of Nations"

I feel like we tried the Europe of Nations that she wants for a good few centuries, I don't necessarily want to see it return.

 

[Theonik]

Someone brought up Japan.

"We trade with them and they don't have free movement."

lol

MEPs read GAF confirmed. Also Brexit has already cost me loads in exchange rate woes with Japan. They can get bent.

 

[oti]

Lucke is there? That guy taught me economics. -.-

 

[Pyramid head]

Without meaning to sound snarky, that really isn't even close to living 'paycheck to paycheck'.

My girlfriend did most (pretty much all) of the saving. I earn slightly above minimum wage.

 

[KingSnake]

Le Pen talking.
Her rambling is kinda aimless.


"You will either change your course or you will dissapear"
"Europe of Nations"

I feel like we tried the Europe of Nations that she wants for a good few centuries, I don't necessarily want to see it return.

Let's say we get the Europe of Nations back. How long before UKIP and FN start blaming each other's country for all the negative things?

Edit: after they are done blaming ze Germans.

 

[jelly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3RvsBnxTEY

Waltz give his opinion. Can't disagree with that.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Let's work really hard and we can have a strong independent economy like Russia.

 

[KonradLaw]

I feel like we tried the Europe of Nations that she wants for a good few centuries, I don't necessarily want to see it return.

The big problem is polarization. Europe of Nations didn't work, but neither would United States of Europe. Why can't we just recognize differences between countries and figure out how to cooperate for common good instead of pretending the only way union can work is by destruction of nations.

 

[Kabouter]

The big problem is polarization. Europe of Nations didn't work, but neither would United States of Europe. Why can't we just recognize differences between countries and figure out how to cooperate for common good instead of pretending the only way union can work is by destruction of nations.

Not that I would ever want to force union, but why can a united Europe not work when countries like Germany and France can? Not to mention many major non-European nations that are the result of many individual nations and cultures being joined.

 

[*Splinter]

The big problem is polarization. Europe of Nations didn't work, but neither would United States of Europe. Why can't we just recognize differences between countries and figure out how to cooperate for common good instead of pretending the only way union can work is by destruction of nations.

Isn't that essentially what we have now? Why is a "destruction"(/amalgamating) of nations a bad thing?

Unless you mean the loss of each country's cultural identity, but in that case why would a United States of Europe even lead to such a thing?

 

[Alx]

The big problem is polarization. Europe of Nations didn't work, but neither would United States of Europe. Why can't we just recognize differences between countries and figure out how to cooperate for common good instead of pretending the only way union can work is by destruction of nations.

The motto of EU is "united in diversity". The differences between countries have been recognized from the beginning. "destruction of nations" is just silly hyperbole when EU spends a lot of resources protecting local cultures.

 

[SKINNER!]

Not that I would ever want to force union, but why can a united Europe not work when countries like Germany and France can? Not to mention many major non-European nations that are the result of many individual nations and cultures being joined.

That's actually quite an intriguing question to ask. Many factors can be taken into consideration here. Is it because of the Aftermath of WW2? or perhaps continental Europe feels more close-knitted and the UK is an island to itself? (but then explain Ireland shorty_symd!?) Could it just be that England sees itself that superior over other nations? who knows to be honest but many factors must be the reason why there can't be a united Europe and history probably plays a part.

 

[ruttyboy]

My girlfriend did most (pretty much all) of the saving. I earn slightly above minimum wage.

OK, but that's not what the phrase means AFAIK. It's for describing people in a situation where they have zero back-up, no savings to fall back on, at all. People who go to pay-day lenders with regularity.

 

[SKINNER!]

My girlfriend did most (pretty much all) of the saving. I earn slightly above minimum wage.

Living paycheck to paycheck is when the majority (and I mean like 80%) of your monthly income goes to bills/rent/necessities/kids and you barely got enough money to buy any cans of beans let alone even consider if you want Heinz or smart price. Or you gotta save money so you can afford the basic things (clothes, shoes, birthday gifts for your kids, school equipment for your kids) for yourself or your kids. Dude, you're not living paycheck to paycheck. Jesus fuck.

 

[*Splinter]

That's actually quite an intriguing question to ask. Many factors can be taken into consideration here. Is it because of the Aftermath of WW2? or perhaps continental Europe feels more close-knitted and the UK is an island to itself? (but then explain Ireland shorty_symd!?) Could it just be that England sees itself that superior over other nations? who knows to be honest but many factors must be the reason why there can't be a united Europe and history probably plays a part.

I don't think it's true that "there can't be a united Europe". It hasn't happened yet, and there are certainly people against it, but I think its a realistic goal to work towards, something that can (and eventually will) happen.

As far British exceptionalism, I don't know. We learn in school that we used to rule the world? I hope it isn't something as silly as that, but I don't know.


Edit: let's not derail the thread with an argument about what is or isn't "living paycheck to paycheck". I regret bringing it up, I just think it's important to remember that a large portion of the population live like this before you make sweeping generalisations about people being "selfish" or "naïve".

 

[norinrad]

Fuck sake, these selfish, idiotic and naive leave cunts have cost me over £5k

The point here is those people, the selfish cunts wanted to be heard and for all the wrong reasons, they have been heard for better or worse. You decide.

 

[SKINNER!]

As far British exceptionalism, I don't know. We learn in school that we used to rule the world? I hope it isn't something as silly as that, but I don't know.

Well, education maybe too. A lot of my European friends are sometimes surprised as to why I do not know a lot about European history and I tell them "yeah but they only taught us about the fucking Tudors and Churchill in history class." Maybe that's got something to do with it? We - just like the Americans - are very self-centered when it comes to history?

 

[GamerMax73]

The big problem is polarization. Europe of Nations didn't work, but neither would United States of Europe. Why can't we just recognize differences between countries and figure out how to cooperate for common good instead of pretending the only way union can work is by destruction of nations.

I'm all for recognising the differences between nations and as per the reply below your post I wouldn't want to force total political Union, but...If nations need to work closer together solve supernational problems, don't we need controls and structures in place to make those discussions and decision making processes as smooth and effective as possible?

I think we can have closer, more federalised, supernatational pan-European ties without cloning the American model or losing our individual national identities.

 

[kmag]

Companies in the UK are staring down the barrel of a record pension deficit approaching £1 trillion, thanks to a collapse in gilt yields following the country's vote to leave the European Union last week, according to pensions consultants.

The Economist

Yuge opportunity. Massive. The best opportunities. Sunlit meadows. Vote leave.

 

[Juicy Bob]

I don't know why companies aren't flocking to the UK to do business right now because if this whole mess has taught us anything it's that the British public will literally buy anything as long as they're told it over and over again.

 

[accel]

Yesterday someone up the thread asked what do Brexiters think of the situation (and perhaps "what they were thinking" in general). I seem to have found a better answer than just a personal opinion.

Here is a 400+ page PDF which discusses a lot of things from the Brexiters point of view (obviously written before the referendum), so if you are interested, it is there:

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

I think there is a shorter version somewhere.

 

[KonradLaw]

Isn't that essentially what we have now? Why is a "destruction"(/amalgamating) of nations a bad thing?

No. Right now we have a group of separate nations that still retain their sovereignity in most areas, while ceeding it only to places where a big block works better. And it's bad thing because Europe is too diverse (comparing USA to it is a pure joke) culturally and economically to ever make one goverment work.

Plus anyone who advocates for United States of Europe today must be a troll who secretly wants complete destruction to EU. Because nationalism is rising in the whole continent. Union needsto learns how to make people feel their nations sovereignity isn't being threatened. People are willing to accept a union of countries working as partners for common good. They won't accept de facto abolishment of their own nations. If you push for it, the EU is done

 

[GamerMax73]

Well, education maybe too. A lot of my European friends are sometimes surprised as to why I do not know a lot about European history and I tell them "yeah but they only taught us about the fucking Tudors and Churchill in history class." Maybe that's got something to do with it? We - just like the Americans - are very self-centered when it comes to history?

Every UK school I've ever either studied at or worked in, at least at secondary level, begins and ends their history education with World War II. It's like the rest of british history, let alone European or wider-world, just doesn't exist. If you want to learn about that sort of stuff you need to catch it on BBC Four!

 

[Camp Freddie]

Well, education maybe too. A lot of my European friends are sometimes surprised as to why I do not know a lot about European history and I tell them "yeah but they only taught us about the fucking Tudors and Churchill in history class." Maybe that's got something to do with it? We - just like the Americans - are very self-centered when it comes to history?

If it doesn't involve domestic politics or us winning a war, it's not taught in school history classes. The world wars, Spanish armada, Waterloo and Trafalgar. Maybe agincourt too.

One exception, the battle of Hastings, though technically William the Conqueror became a British king so that's domestic politics.

 

[Pyramid head]

Living paycheck to paycheck is when the majority (and I mean like 80%) of your monthly income goes to bills/rent/necessities/kids and you barely got enough money to buy any cans of beans let alone even consider if you want Heinz or smart price. Or you gotta save money so you can afford the basic things (clothes, shoes, birthday gifts for your kids, school equipment for your kids) for yourself or your kids. Dude, you're not living paycheck to paycheck. Jesus fuck.

Fair enough, I misspoke. What I meant was my wages cover my mortgage, bills, food, travel expenses and nothing else. For unexpected costs, like the boiler breaking down, or chavs smashing my living room window (in the lovely middle class area in which I apparently live) I've had to borrow money from family.
To afford a holiday, my girlfriend and I went without spending on anything non-essential for the past 4 years. We could have lived more comfortably, but we thought we'd prefer to look back at the memory of going on holiday.

 

[maquiladora]

GBP/USD has hit a fresh 31 year low. #recovery

 

[kmag]

GBP/USD has hit a fresh 31 year low. #recovery

YUGE NEWS for UK Exporters. Sadly YUGER news for any brit who needs to put food in their belly or fuel in their car.

 

[nOoblet16]

GBP/USD has hit a fresh 31 year low. #recovery

Oh it'll drop further.
I'm sure the people who looked at the dead cat bounce and thought it was recovering already are ignoring this right now.

 

[KonradLaw]

I'm all for recognising the differences between nations and as per the reply below your post I wouldn't want to force total political Union, but...If nations need to work closer together solve supernational problems, don't we need controls and structures in place to make those discussions and decision making processes as smooth and effective as possible?

I think we can have closer, more federalised, supernatational pan-European ties without cloning the American model or losing our individual national identities.

Yes. But those super structures shouldn't cover every single area. There should be areas where nations sovereignity is absolute, even inside union, like criminal law, non-EU migration, education or culture/religion.

 

[Alx]

Yes. But those super structures shouldn't cover every single area. There should be areas where nations sovereignity is absolute, even inside union, like criminal law, non-EU migration, education or culture/religion.

I don't know what you mean by "absolute", but all members are still pretty much in charge of their own criminal laws, immigration of non-EU citizens, education and culture/religion. The rules can actually change a lot from one to another.
But then it's even true for states within the US federation...

 

[Juicy Bob]

So the Pound is currently worth less right now than at any other point in most of our lives, right?

 

[Maledict]

Every UK school I've ever either studied at or worked in, at least at secondary level, begins and ends their history education with World War II. It's like the rest of british history, let alone European or wider-world, just doesn't exist. If you want to learn about that sort of stuff you need to catch it on BBC Four!

Yep. It's funny because my Euro friends think that we spend our time dreaming of past glories and empire, when in reality we skip that entire part of history in school.

It generally goes Tudors --> spinning Jenny --> world war 2.

Occasionally you get forays into the English civil war, or world war 1 poetry, but that's about it. The slave trade is almost always covered as well as a moral lesson in what not do to, but the entire history / scope / size of the British Empire was something I had no clue about until leaving school and doing some reading on my own. You definitely don't leave school thinking 'we used to own the world, fuck yeah!'c

 

[Ucchedavāda]

From where I'm sitting Britain stays and it will come at compromise that benefits the UK. All the tough talk from our unelected friends in Brussels is just that, Britain out of the EU in the long run would be far more damaging as it paves the way for extreme right-wing governments to take over with unforseen consequences possibly breaking the EU up entirely.

The way things are going, the UK will simply end up as the example that governments can trot out to dissuade their electorate from voting to leave the EU. It has already had that effect here, with 'leave EU' now having half the support it had earlier this year.

 

[Micael]

I don't know why companies aren't flocking to the UK to do business right now because if this whole mess has taught us anything it's that the British public will literally buy anything as long as they're told it over and over again.

The EU has laws against false advertisement for products, so "unfortunately" what works for politics doesn't work for products.

 

[Condom]

Every UK school I've ever either studied at or worked in, at least at secondary level, begins and ends their history education with World War II. It's like the rest of british history, let alone European or wider-world, just doesn't exist. If you want to learn about that sort of stuff you need to catch it on BBC Four!

How is that even possible? World war II takes up one month maybe. I understand that you are exaggerating but what do kids get to learn the rest of the time? Even all of British history can't fill the whole program.

 

[Crumpo]

How is that even possible? World war II takes up one month maybe. I understand that you are exaggerating but what do kids get to learn the rest of the time? Even all of British history can't fill the whole program.

We covered the birth of modern British politics (c19), the creation of modern Italy and also the politics of post-ww1 Germany. That was just over the course of one year.

I don't think history as a school subject is as insular as people are making out.

 

[berzeli]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3RvsBnxTEY

Waltz give his opinion. Can't disagree with that.

This is where I'm at as well.

 

[RiggyRob]

How is that even possible? World war II takes up one month maybe. I understand that you are exaggerating but what do kids get to learn the rest of the time? Even all of British history can't fill the whole program.

With secondary schools it's often just UK focused e.g. Industrial Revolution and then the World Wars.

 

[oti]

I don't remember learning anything about Great Britain in history class, except for their roles in the WWs of course. We started with Greece, Rome, Middle Ages, the next thing I remember is the French Revolution and of course a lot WW1, Republic of Weimar and WW2 as you would expect.

 

[Condom]

We covered the birth of modern British politics (c19), the creation of modern Italy and also the politics of post-ww1 Germany. That was just over the course of one year.

I don't think history as a school subject is as insular as people are making out.

With secondary schools it's often just UK focused e.g. Industrial Revolution and then the World Wars.

Ah okay cool. Thanks for the info. It's interesting to see the difference in what they teach per country.

 

[Micael]

How is that even possible? World war II takes up one month maybe. I understand that you are exaggerating but what do kids get to learn the rest of the time? Even all of British history can't fill the whole program.

No idea about history in the UK, but at least in Portugal history classes are definitely quite focused on Portuguese history, which is silly, even the stuff that isn't Portuguese history is still Western History, when really schools should be teaching world history, and not the western version of history, where you would think the rest of the world were just waiting for the greatness of the west to come to them.

 

[Snarfington]

How is that even possible? World war II takes up one month maybe. I understand that you are exaggerating but what do kids get to learn the rest of the time? Even all of British history can't fill the whole program.

My GCSE covered, from what I can remember:

Women's Suffrage Movement
David Lloyd George's Reforms
Home Front during WWI
Germany during WWII
The Holocaust (informal, preceding a trip to Poland)

It was very much openly geared as a "Modern British History" course. Very inward-looking. Then, suddenly, at AS level we had courses on warfare and the fall of imperialism in China, the Korean and Vietnam Wars, US independence... GCSE History is very limited, even if we learn Tudors, Victorians, Romans, Greeks etc. in Primary education.

 

[w1ck3dn1nj4]

The problem is a lot of MPs seem to be sitting behind Leave, even if they didn't campaign for it. Just because "the people have spoken".

Really makes me sick when “the people have spoken” soundbite at the end of the day is nothing more than a slim majority whose outcome was inspired by deceit and deliberate misinformation on a nationwide scale. And instead of questioning whether voters have been sold a lie, we’re turning a blind eye and legitimising this farcical exercise like some irrefutable truth. No, the people have not spoken you cunts. They've been duped!

 

[Alx]

I don't remember learning anything about Great Britain in history class, except for their roles in the WWs of course. We started with Greece, Rome, Middle Ages, the next thing I remember is the French Revolution and of course a lot WW1, Republic of Weimar and WW2 as you would expect.

Yes I guess most countries focus history lessons to their own history. In France we would mostly focus on international stuff for XXth century (mostly world wars), but everything else is just about what happened in our own country. Other countries would only be mentioned as war opponents. Or some very specific events, like Columbus/Magellan expeditions. For some reason we studied the English revolution too (the one with Cromwell and the axe beheadings ).
To be fair it's already impossible to cover two milleniums (and more) of local history, so it's hard to include other countries as well.

 

[kmag]

AGCO pulling European Headquarters out of Coventry.

At least 250 of the 500 workforce to go

http://www.profi.de/news/Agco-will-Europa-Zentrale-aus-England-abziehen-3880137.html