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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm not even talking about the public. Those in government behind the wheel are steering into an iceberg of their own making and nobody has the sense to stop it.
The UK would basically have to turn into a tax haven if it were to keep the financial sector after losing the passport. Which would turn into a gigantic clusterfuck. Watch the EU moving en masse with regulations against large tax avoidance schemes once and for all while the UK sacrifices a large chunk of its tax revenue in a desperate attempt to keep the City alive.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4

Calabi

Member
Yikes



Im actually looking to buy gtx1070...looks like its time

Sorry for trying to win something out of this, UK gaf :p

Yeah I bought a new SSD Drive a few days ago for this very reason. I was going to buy around christmas time but realised there going to be the cheapest now for a long while.
 

ss1

Neo Member
My girlfriend's just starting a career in tech, I speak a little bit of German, we're going to Berlin on holiday soon, and we're definitely going to be scouting it as a future home.

I'm also considering shifting my family to Germany. I work in tech and have a doctoral degree in Computer Science. Even if Scotland does get independence it will be financially broke for several years. So leaving maybe the only option.
 

Mr. Sam

Member
I'm also considering shifting my family to Germany. I work in tech and have a doctoral degree in Computer Science. Even if Scotland does get independence it will be financially broke for several years. So leaving maybe the only option.

I'll let you know how much English they speak in Berlin because, while I can order a drink and ask someone if they have fifty-two cats, I'm not fluent in German.

So not an expert then.

Even more likeable.

"I don't know a fucking thing!"

*Rapturous applause*
 

Izuna

Banned
You know what I am sick of? Immigrant Leavers. "We should be taken care off." Yeah, with your London council house and 3 cars despite no full time job, just because you had kids this side of the world?

Not that all Leave voters are racist/idiotic scum, but there certainly are some.

EDIT:

If Brexit somehow gets reversed, can be government be used for fraud? I am not using my brain when asking this question, just curious.
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
You know what I am sick of? Immigrant Leavers. "We should be taken care off." Yeah, with your London council house and 3 cars despite no full time job, just because you had kids this side of the world?

Not that all Leave voters are racist/idiotic scum, but there certainly are some.

EDIT:

If Brexit somehow gets reversed, can be government be used for fraud? I am not using my brain when asking this question, just curious.

You didn't use your brain for any of this post did you?
 

Izuna

Banned
You didn't use your brain for any of this post did you?

Okay to clarify (a bit emotional atm)...

I have to overhear to "the EU is evil" BS all the time, about how this country is completely fucked. I never bring up what someone else is able to provide for society, but the fascist bullshit I am hearing from a 1st Generation immigrant about how this country is being fucked over by other immigrants is really -- for lack of a more colourful term -- stupid.

It's like... Nationalism from someone who didn't live their adult life here. It makes no sense.

EDIT: What I hope is that this is a single example.

--

And for the second back (admittedly very silly question), the people who lost money because of Brexit, should it be reversed without another referendum could someone have grounds to ask for any rebate?
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
If Brexit somehow gets reversed, can be government be used for fraud? I am not using my brain when asking this question, just curious.

No (assuming you mean done for fraud rather than used, since they've been using it for freud since day one a ha ha ha). People would be angry, claim democracy is dead and the tories may lose 1% of the vote next time round, but a referendum is just an extra official opinion poll at the end of the day. This is basically what remain is hanging on a thread for.
 

Izuna

Banned
No (assuming you mean done for fraud rather than used, since they've been using it for freud since day one a ha ha ha). People would be angry, claim democracy is dead and the tories may lose 1% of the vote next time round, but a referendum is just an extra official opinion poll at the end of the day. This is basically what remain is hanging on a thread for.

Yeah, okay gotcha 👌🏻
 

Maledict

Member
I'm not even talking about the public. Those in government behind the wheel are steering into an iceberg of their own making and nobody has the sense to stop it.

The problem is parliament is in a classic case of prisoners dilemma. If both parties agreed 'This is too dangerous to do', took the hit and reversed the decision the country as a whole would benefit and it would protect them both against UKIP. However, if only one party commits to reversing course, the the party that commits to Brexit sweeps up a huge amount of the vote. So of course neither party can do it.

Because of how politics works, both parties will walk this country off the edge of a cliff knowing full well it will ruin us, but being unable to stop it happening because it would destroy them if they did.

Edit : further complication is that Labour has a leader who does actually want Brexit, and so would use any approach as a weapon against the Tories.
 

Kathian

Banned
Tech prices already rising;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36722155

Ideal for small businesses and a service based economy. Such luck.

I was going to wait to build a second PC but going to bite this week - will see out Prime Deals but components going to start rising sharply.

Uncertainty is going to become certainty and that certainty is going to be negative.
 

kmag

Member
Tech prices already rising;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36722155

Ideal for small businesses and a service based economy. Such luck.

I was going to wait to build a second PC but going to bite this week - will see out Prime Deals but components going to start rising sharply.

Uncertainty is going to become certainty and that certainty is going to be negative.

Network infrastructure kit is already increasing. Not surprising as the resellers don't hold that much stock (if any) and it's a relatively thin margin business these days. Literally Cisco kit prices increased on the morning of the 24th and they're still going up.

They're being a bit squirrelly about the usual quote guarantee (i.e they're offering it but protecting themselves by taking the piss with the initial price) which is making solution design a bit difficult. For some of the bigger quotes they're just pricing it in dollars straight up. Not that there seems to be that many projects proceeding atm pretty much everything non-critical is on hold, even some of the critical stuff has been pared back to the minimum for compliance (it's almost as if the people spending the money don't expect the kit to be there for very long)
 

nickcv

Member
Just got this email
pPrV4CI.jpg
 
An large majority of Sunderland voted Leave. Sunderland's economy is acutely dependant on the local Nissan factory and European investment. We aren't talking about uneducated farmers voting Leave out of ignorance, but a city that was literally saved by European trade telling the Union to go to hell. Because of inmigrants. Despite the fact that the city has little to very little inmigration and would collapse without the EU.

If Brexit happens, you can count with Nissan moving Sunderland's production elsewhere, one model at a time, probably to Spain. And taking with it the R&D department of Nissan Europe along (maybe) Nissan Design, which are also based in the UK. Nissan Sunderland employs around 27,000 people in the region, counting Nissan employees, providers and contractors. And God knows how many local businesses are dependant their income.

I can't even think of a better example of a city voting against its own interests out of prejudice and nationalism. They embody the Leave platform like no other town.

I lived in probably the most Asian dominated part of Sunderland and the worst part were the EDL flyers we got through the door weekly.

In fact I have yet to have a conversation with anyone who voted Remain (yes, remain) in the North East that didn't end with them complaining about immigration. Mostly twenty somethings too by the way.

I've literally stopped speaking to a lass because she couldn't explain why she voted Leave to me. Probably because she knew how I'd react to the immigration argument.

I am getting the fuck out of here.
 

accel

Member
Regarding Sunderland, if the UK moves to EEA (with or without limiting freedom of movement), that would help, as far as I understand.
 
An large majority of Sunderland voted Leave. Sunderland's economy is acutely dependant on the local Nissan factory and European investment. We aren't talking about uneducated farmers voting Leave out of ignorance, but a city that was literally saved by European trade telling the Union to go to hell. Because of inmigrants. Despite the fact that the city has little to very little inmigration and would collapse without the EU.

If Brexit happens, you can count with Nissan moving Sunderland's production elsewhere, one model at a time, probably to Spain. And taking with it the R&D department of Nissan Europe along (maybe) Nissan Design, which are also based in the UK. Nissan Sunderland employs around 27,000 people in the region, counting Nissan employees, providers and contractors. And God knows how many local businesses are dependant their income.

I can't even think of a better example of a city voting against its own interests out of prejudice and nationalism. They embody the Leave platform like no other town.
yikes. How stupid can people be?
 

*Splinter

Member
Because reasons such as Finance. And Agriculture. There are other reasons. They are small, but they are fierce many.
Yeah yeah I know all that. I wondered if he had a specific reason to think that since it seems to go very strongly against what Funky said.
 

accel

Member
That would help with what?


Staying in EEA would resolve questions with import/export tariffs and EU regulations (it would be the same as now), which as far as I understand (thanks to Funky Papa) are the main reasons to move the plant. There'd still be uncertainty regarding what the UK would do next, but it would be greatly reduced.

Yeah yeah I know all that. I wondered if he had a specific reason to think that since it seems to go very strongly against what Funky said.

???
 

*Splinter

Member
Staying in EEA would resolve questions with import/export tariffs and EU regulations (it would be the same as now), which as far as I understand (thanks to Funky Papa) are the main reasons to move the plant. There'd still be uncertainty regarding what the UK would do next, but it would be greatly reduced.
Ah, I thought you meant it would be an improvement somehow, ok thanks


Seen your edit, to clarify I thought you were saying Brexit could be good for Sunderland (depending on the deal we get), my mistake
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
On EEA, aka the Norwegian model.

The Norwegian model – joining the European Economic Area

The European Economic Area (EEA) was established in 1994 to give European countries that are not part of the EU a way to become members of the Single Market. The EEA comprises all members of the EU together with three non-EU countries: Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. Members of the EEA are part of the European Single Market and there is free movement of goods, services, people and capital within the EEA. Since EEA members are part of the Single Market, they must implement EU rules concerning the Single Market, including legislation regarding employment, consumer protection, environmental and competition policy.

EEA membership does not oblige countries to participate in monetary union, the EU’s common foreign and security policy or the EU’s justice and home affairs policies. EEA
members also do not participate in the CAP. While there is free trade within the EEA, EEA members are not part of the EU’s customs union, which means that they can set their own external tariff and conduct their own trade negotiations with countries outside the EU.

EEA members effectively pay a fee to be part of the Single Market. They do this by contributing to the EU’s regional development funds and contributing to the costs of the EU programmes in which they participate. In 2011, Norway’s contribution to the EU budget was £106 per capita, only 17% lower than the UK’s net contribution of £128 per capita (House of Commons, 2013). Becoming part of the EEA would not generate substantial fiscal savings for the UK government.

Joining the EEA would allow the UK to remain part of the Single Market while not participating in other forms of European integration. An important finding of research on the economic consequences of leaving the EU is that although Brexit would harm the UK’s economy through reduced trade, the cost is smaller when the UK remains more economically integrated with the EU (Ottaviano et al, 2014). Consequently, EEA membership is an 5 appealing option for those attracted by the economic benefits of the EU, but who are not in favour of ‘ever closer union’.

There are other downsides to joining the EEA in addition to the membership fee and the need to follow EU regulations. While EEA members belong to the Single Market, they are not part of the deeper integration that occurs within the EU. For example, as an EEA member Norway does not belong to the EU’s customs union. This means Norwegian exports must satisfy ‘rules of origin’ requirements to enter the EU duty-free.2

With the growing complexity of global supply chains, verifying a product’s origin has become increasingly costly. If the UK joined the EEA, part of this cost would be borne by
UK firms. Exporters would have to limit their use of inputs imported from outside the EU to meet the EU’s rules of origin (Stewart-Brown and Bungay, 2012). The EU can also use antidumping measures to restrict imports from EEA countries, as occurred in 2006 when the EU imposed a 16% tariff on imports of Norwegian salmon.
Campos et al (2015) find that Norway’s failure to undertake the deeper integration pursued by EU countries has lowered Norway’s productivity.

While these consequences of EEA membership would increase the cost of doing business with the EU, the more important drawbacks of adopting the Norwegian model would be political. Non-EU members of the EEA must accept and implement EU legislation governing the Single Market without having any part in deciding the legislation. The rules of the Single Market are set by the EU not the EEA. By leaving the EU to join the EEA, the UK would give up its influence over all EU decisionmaking, including how to govern the Single Market. In this sense joining the EEA entails giving up even more sovereignty than being part of the EU. EEA members must agree to implement legislation that they have no say in deciding.

For a relatively large country such as the UK, which is accustomed to having a prominent voice in European and world affairs, this is likely to be a difficult position to accept. For
example, the government would have no opportunity to block proposals that it believed harmed the UK’s national interest or to drive forward policies it generally supports, such as further liberalisation of trade in services. If a vote to leave the EU is interpreted as a vote against giving up UK sovereignty to the EU, then joining the EEA could easily be construed as a betrayal of the spirit of the outcome of the referendum.

Such a great deal. The best deal. A deal that would also take years to negotiate. Not only tariffs still apply, but those factories that could manage to survive would do so by sourcing most components from the EU in order to satisfy EEA requirements, turning themselves into screwdriver plants and destroying the local parts providers at the costs of thousands of jobs.
 

spwolf

Member
Regarding Sunderland, if the UK moves to EEA (with or without limiting freedom of movement), that would help, as far as I understand.

lol.. whole campaign is all about lies and deceit.

How in the world would moving out of EU help Sunderland and other major car production sites?

Delusion that all EU states will be for UK signing agreement that gives them full access to EEA as they had before is simply a delusion. There are many countries in the EU that have negative trade balance with UK.
 

accel

Member
On EEA, aka the Norwegian model.


Such a great deal. The best deal. A deal that would also take years to negotiate.

I disagree with parts of what you quoted. For example, (a) Norway's contributions to EU's budget are high, but the vast majority of those aren't to EEA, contributions to EEA are tiny, (b) Norway has plenty of say on EU regulations coming to EEA, there's even a veto provision in EEA/EFTA, but it was never invoked because there are consultations for all incoming provisions.

No opinion on the pieces you painted in red, I don't know how important they are for Sunderland and in general. If you say they are vitally important, fine, I will take your word for it.

Lastly, obviously, exiting EU just to land in EEA is a waste of time, but it seems like a reasonable intermediate option.

Added later: regarding tariffs, by joining EEA I meant joining EEA/EFTA (was just shortening that to EEA all the time, although I thought it was obvious since we are talking about Norway, for example), sorry for the confusion. That would take care of tariffs, correct?
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Rules of origin is massive. These days most components are sourced from local partners with a few exceptions such as some sensors, engines and transmissions.

Moving to the EEA would mean that the British automotive industry would have to get away with that part of the economy, which employs about as many people if not more than the car builders themselves. It would also mean the collateral destruction of many R+D firms (only God knows what this could mean for Lotus or Prodrive).

The surviving British factories would be reduced to assembly lines bolting together pieces brought from the EU.

It would also be interesting to know about the impact it would have for companies such as Ford Europe, which builds engines for the European market. I wouldn't be shocked if it were to shut down its manufacturing, which could spell bad news for the European design and engineering centres located in the UK. Cologne could eat them whole.

Added later: regarding tariffs, by joining EEA I meant joining EEA/EFTA (was just shortening that to EEA all the time, although I thought it was obvious since we are talking about Norway, for example), sorry for the confusion. That would take care of tariffs, correct?
Tariffs are unavoidable (and they are huge) unless rules of origin are met. Then you have antidumping measures in case somebody gets funny ideas.
 

Joni

Member
Staying in EEA would resolve questions with import/export tariffs and EU regulations (it would be the same as now), which as far as I understand (thanks to Funky Papa) are the main reasons to move the plant. There'd still be uncertainty regarding what the UK would do next, but it would be greatly reduced.
There is one element: the time to switch over from now to Article 50 to the exit to the EEA might have already lead to reduced investments and the eventual closures.
 
Is Norway eligible to EU development funds ?

Like, how Wales receives (received ?) rather large sums to invest in growth and development.

The UK would, under a Norway-esque EEA deal, just pay a similar amount of money to before they exited....

...and then don't get their 25% rebate and zero development funds in return ?
 

accel

Member
Is Norway eligible to EU development funds ?

Like, how Wales receives (received ?) rather large sums to invest in growth and development.

Will the UK, under a Norway-esque EEA deal, just pay a similar amount of money to before they exited....

...but then don't get their 25% rebate and zero development funds ?

It is hard to say what the UK would pay. Here's an outlook on what Norway pays and for what:

Norway’s EEA membership includes a range of financial contributions. Included within these are the “Norway Grants”, paid by Norway as a form of aid for the economic rehabilitation of post-Communist countries, these grants amounted to around €804 million in the period 2009 -2014.This money is not paid to the EU.

Norway also provides 95% of the funding to the EEA Grants, which alongside the Norway Grants brings the total to €1.8 billion from 2009-2014. The total spend for EU programmes with EFTA/EEA participation over the 2007-2013 period amounted to €70 billion, with the contribution of EFTA amounting to €1.7 billion, approximately €250 million a year, of which Norway accounted for 95.77% of the cost.

As of 2014 Norway participates in twelve EU programmes, including Horizon 2020 Erasmus+ and the Copernicus Programme. It also takes part in 26 EU agencies. These include the Education, Audiovisual and Culture Executive Agency (EACEA), the European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders (FRONTEX), the European Agency for Safety and Health at Work (EU-OSHA), the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA), the European Defence Agency (EDA), the Executive Agency for Health and Consumers (EAHC), the Research Executive Agency (REA) and the European Police College (CEPOL).

As to the budget for these activities, over the 2007-2013 multi-annual period, total EU spending was around €70 billion, of which the estimated EFTA contribution was in the order of €1.7 billion – averaging approximately €250 million a year. Norway carried 95.77 percent of that cost (€1.63bn).

This cash, therefore, is for services rendered and funding is not one way. Over the last financial period Norwegian beneficiaries were paid €1.01 billion from EU funds, making the net contribution over the seven-year period €620 million, approximately a €90 million net contribution per year. If this was applied to the UK on a pro-rata basis as part of the EFTA/EEA arrangement, it would contribute approximately €2.5 billion annually, 70% of which is accounted for by the EU’s research programme.

It is highly likely that the UK would wish to continue its participation in many of the same programmes and agencies beyond the length of its current obligations.

As to the specific EFTA contributions paid for the functioning of the Single Market, these come out of the EFTA budget. According to the latest figures, EFTA budgetary costs in 2016 will run to 21 677 000 Swiss Francs (approximately £15.5 million). Norway’s 54.68% share of that contribution amounts to approximately £7 million. This could be said to be, in-effect, the cost of access to the Single Market, which would cost (on a pro-rata basis) the UK less than £100 million per annum if we left the EU, joined EFTA and traded with the EU via the EEA.

http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=157

In short: payments to access the Single Market are tiny, but they are paying for other things, more or less picking and choosing what they like (plus "funding is not one way", some of the money come back).
 

ittoryu

Member
In a speech in Westminster, Leadsom, the leading pro-Brexit candidate, appeared to ditch the economic strategy of her former boss George Osborne and sought to reassure the financial markets that Britain could cope with leaving the EU.

She said the lower pound would be good for exports and claimed the stock market had already recovered.


You really must be delusional to even believe this pile of crap.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
There is one element: the time to switch over from now to Article 50 to the exit to the EEA might have already lead to reduced investments and the eventual closures.

Yep.

Not only that, cars are usually awarded to plants per generation. Each generation lasts 6 to 8 years and the process to pick the factory that will build them takes some time, as they have to be rebuilt from the inside (usually during the summer break, which is what my girlfriend is doing).

Leaving the EU means that manufacturers won't know if they should be awarding new models to their British factories since haslty moving said cars to the continent in the event of Article 50 being invoked could be incredibly expensive for them. Furthermore, the divorce will take years, not counting the negotiations before new trade deals are signed.

By the time everything is said and done, an entire generation of cars will have passed and the British automotive industry could be in total shambles. Then, the surviving lines would have to deal with rules of origin and whatnot.
 

oti

Banned
In a speech in Westminster, Leadsom, the leading pro-Brexit candidate, appeared to ditch the economic strategy of her former boss George Osborne and sought to reassure the financial markets that Britain could cope with leaving the EU.

She said the lower pound would be good for exports and claimed the stock market had already recovered.


You really must be delusional to even believe this pile of crap.

So we have:

1. A second Margaret Sith Lord Thatcher
2. A religions nutjob with no grip on reality whatsoever
3. A spineless nutjob who brought down Boris but has lost all credibility within his party


Hamburg is pretty nice, you know.
 

Acidote

Member
It would also be interesting to know about the impact it would have for companies such as Ford Europe, which builds engines for the European market. I wouldn't be shocked if it were to shut down its manufacturing, which could spell bad news for the European design and engineering centres located in the UK. Cologne could eat them whole.

Ford employs over 14000 workers between Bridgend and Dagenham. They made 1.6m engines last year. All of them exported.

Ford is not happy.
 
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