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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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M

Maledict

Member
*Splinter said:
Huh, why?

Afraid of the possibility of this new centre party? (Which was apparently only happening of Leadsom won)
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Maybe. Between that and the week of dreadful publicity she had which probably left her realising she isn't up to it and there's probably more skeletons in the closet.

Shame on one level as a new centrist party made up Tories, libs and labour might actually have changed our politics.

Also this does mean the press will be free to focus on labours leadership issues just as the Tories get a bounce in the polls from having a new leader (and general relief someone is in charge). Grim time to be on the left.
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Surely there has to be a GE in the near-future, assuming May becomes PM uncontested.

I love how Leadsom's people are spinning her cowardly exit as being due to 'abuse'. Did she think her Dolores Umbridge persona would be enough to make people forget the many stupid things she's said?
 
M

mehrmantrout

Member
Good a more loathsome politician I've yet to see. I guess she's standing down as absolutely everything shes claimed to have done, is a lie. Her tax returns left out her buy to let business as well
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Could the leadership election go ahead with Gove being resurrected as May's opponent? Surely the arch-nutters backing Leadsom won't just give up?
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Leadsom saying abuse too great?

To be a PM you need pretty thick skin. In all the interviews and statements she's seemed very naïve and green behind the ears so to speak, it's not surprising.
 
H

Hasney

Member
The only way this could be more nuts is if Boris Johnson comes to the house of commons with a briefcase, announces he's "cashing in" and it becomes a two way race again.

chromatic9 said:
Leadsom saying abuse too great?

To be an MP you need pretty thick skin. In all the interviews and statements she's seemed very naïve and green behind the ears so to speak, it's not surprising.
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Wait, I read it as he comments were too great of an abuse. She's backing out because of the abuse she got? Bullet fucking dodged in even more ways.
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
Wonder if we will see UKIP try and use this against May. Could argue she has no legitimacy because she never got elected by the membership.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
I imagine the thought of a break-off, when they're basically assured electoral victory, scared the party's right away from backing Leadsom? Or they realised just how incoherent she is?
godelsmetric said:
Because the centre right now is far closer to traditional right-wing policies than to left-wing policies.

That said, I wonder if in Tory circles they are considered Labour-lite.
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Along the economic axis perhaps. I think this was already posted either in this or the prior thread, but it was an interesting take.
Perhaps the right did win the economic war and the left the culture war. We are more economically unequal but less socially unequal than we were three decades ago. But should we heap the praise, or the blame, entirely onto politicians? Much of what we have seen in Britain has occurred to varying degrees across the developed world. Inequality has risen, trade union membership has fallen, manufacturing employment has declined and welfare states have retrenched. Even the Swedes are not quite as wedded to welfarism as they once were.

At the same time, social equality, and especially the position of women and minorities, has improved in most developed countries. In Europe, it is enshrined in a series of EU directives which mean that governments couldn’t repeal discrimination laws even if they wanted to.

Global economic changes and gradual shifts in social attitudes have driven much of this change. Politicians can take some of the credit and blame but the fact that most western countries have moved in a broadly similar direction suggests that a lot of this might have happened anyway. Some, like Thatcher and Reagan, speeded up the process but in the main, politicians just acted as cheerleaders and rode the waves.

If we could transport them forward by thirty years, 1970s politicians of both left and right would probably be aghast at what they saw. The left would rail against income inequality, privatised utilities and the relatively weak trade union movement. Conservatives would splutter into their pink gins at the sight of women bosses with same-sex partners, people with brown skins at the golf club and the general ‘lack of respect’ for those in senior positions.
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https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/the-equality-paradox/

And again reflects the changing dynamics of politics noted in that LSE blog already posted. Between order and openness.
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
Ushojax said:
Could the leadership election go ahead with Gove being resurrected as May's opponent? Surely the arch-nutters backing Leadsom won't just give up?
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Highly doubtful, it would look desperate and backtracking badly isn't going to do him any favors.

Never expected to be happy to see May as PM...
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
Looks like it might not be a coronation after all

CnE_d3xWYAANiH3.jpg


Should Leadsom withdraw, appears "it is the duty" of 1922 Committee to find a second candidate to put to membership.
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M

Meadows

Banned
Really hope the 1922 just decides in the face of overwhelming support to gift it to May and we can get on with this. Cutting out 2 months of uncertainty will be very good for the economy and the markets.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Two interesting things I read today:

http://www.politico.eu/article/euro...-brexit-euroskeptics-eurozone-european-union/

In the wake of the Leave campaign’s shocking win in the U.K.’s In/Out referendum, commentators have painstakingly defended Britain’s rampant Euroskepticism as part of a larger trend.

They point to the wave of discontent sweeping through the Union, from Sweden and Denmark in the north, to France, the Netherlands and Austria in the center, and Italy in the south. Influential pro-European pundits have now joined starkly anti-EU politicians such as Nigel Farage in arguing the EU’s disintegration is now irreversible. Today’s dominant view, it seems, is that most Europeans do not want to be ruled by Brussels.

This pessimistic diagnosis is inaccurate. Europeans are angry about how the EU has handled the asymmetric effects of globalization, but the majority do not believe that leaving the Union is the answer. The fact is that Britain — or more concretely, England — is an outlier in the EU in that respect.
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The English have felt considerable schadenfreude over eurozone members’ suffering. Many in England, especially in the City, felt pride in the U.K.’s sovereign decision not to join the single currency. The response from London was: “We told you this was a bad idea, now deal with it.”

But the fact is that the eurozone crisis, and the way it was managed, displaced the U.K. to the margins of the Union. And this did not go unnoticed. The evidence of German control over the Union dealt a huge blow to the English psyche. In part, this explains why the Leave campaign’s slogan, “Take back control,” had such a powerful effect. England should not be made to suffer from German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s poor decisions on refugee policy, they argued. The solution was simple: Let’s get out.

If they don’t openly reject German dominance in the EU, the English still have serious reservations about it. Their belief that the rest of Europe feels the same way is a serious miscalculation.

Despite Anglo-Saxon commentators insisting the euro is a disaster and should be dismantled, an overwhelming majority, both in northern and southern parts of the eurozone, wants to keep the single currency. Why? Some say fear of the unknown has kept countries like Greece, Italy or Spain from quitting the euro. In reality, the situation is complex, and has more to do with the benefits of belonging to a stable, democratic and wealthy club whose bureaucrats are less corrupt than local politicians.
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This is something I noticed and commented on previously in this thread. Watching BBC talk about EU is like watching an alternate reality in which EU is almost dead already. When actually the feeling and the reality outside England is a totally different one. Actually EU will most probably end up more united after Brexit.

It also feels like a strange thing to seek validation for your decision in what other countries will do when your main idea was that you will be better on your own.

https://yougov.de/news/2016/07/08/nach-der-brexit-entscheidung-deal-or-no-deal/

This is an interesting poll that I think was linked here before in regards with what kind of deal should there be between UK and EU, so I will focus only on the questions regarding Scotland:

chart_afterbrexit_schottland-neu.png


Dark green is the ones who support Scotland to be in EU in case they get independence.
Here it would be interesting to see also the opinion of the Spanish people (not the government).

Also 72 per cent of Germans, 68 percent of French and even three out of four Britons (75 per cent) believe it is "somewhat" or "very likely" that the Scots would soon get a second referendum.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
KingSnake said:
Two interesting things I read today:

http://www.politico.eu/article/euro...-brexit-euroskeptics-eurozone-european-union/




This is something I noticed and commented on previously in this thread. Watching BBC talk about EU is like watching an alternate reality in which EU is almost dead already. When actually the feeling and the reality outside England is a totally different one. Actually EU will most probably end up more united after Brexit.

It also feels like a strange thing to seek validation for your decision in what other countries will do when your main idea was that you will be better on your own.

https://yougov.de/news/2016/07/08/nach-der-brexit-entscheidung-deal-or-no-deal/

This is an interesting poll that I think was linked here before in regards with what kind of deal should there be between UK and EU, so I will focus only on the questions regarding Scotland:

chart_afterbrexit_schottland-neu.png


Dark green is the ones who support Scotland to be in EU in case they get independence.
Here it would be interesting to see also the opinion of the Spanish people (not the government).

Also 72 per cent of Germans, 68 percent of French and even three out of four Britons (75 per cent) believe it is "somewhat" or "very likely" that the Scots would soon get a second referendum.
Click to expand...

I really hope the EU stays strong.

I'm resigned to leaving and think that - despite my Remain vote - we can be better as a country outside of the EU in the long run.

We were an obstacle to further intergration and federalism, so in some ways this might suit both the EU and UK quite well, Maybe Charles de Gaulle was right all along.
 
J

jelly

Member
M

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Eagle doesnt come across super well, no charisma
 
G

Guerrillas in the Mist

Member
RedShift said:
I don't agree. AV was seen as a stepping stone to PR, everyone including the Lib Dems were pushing at such.

If anyone voted against AV in the hope it would lead to PR they seriously played themselves.
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People actually did this at the time. I remember reading a opinion piece that advocated voting "No to AV" because it would magically lead to "real" voting reform.

Funnily enough, a number of hard-left types advocated voting Leave on a similar sort of basis, somehow blissfully unaware of who was driving and leading the campaign. On the day after the vote, I listened to a pro-Leave Labour MP (John Mann?) being literally laughed at by another Leave campaigner when he brought up the vote being a chance to roll back on "EU Privitisation", whatever the hell that is. You got played, mate.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
God, can we just end this charade. May is going to win, she is the best candidate by a country mile, let's just get on with this.
 
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