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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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Monty Mole

Member
So it looks like David Gauke could be replacing Osbourne?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

David_gauke_hi.jpg
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S

Stuart444

Member
Monty Mole said:
Completely disagree. The current system isn't perfect, but it does mean that our politics isn't all about one person in the run up to a vote - just compare and contrast to Clinton vs Trump in the states. Also, it means we have a coalition when a party doesn't win a sizeable majority - again not ideal, but a fairer system for a country divided. It's just a shame we can't have a Brexit coalition - one toe out, one toe in.. oh wait.. that's exactly what'll end up happening anyway :)
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Our system isn't perfect and yeah, I don't want the same system we have in the states but I do think there could be something better, I just don't know what >_<.

Especially when we have 4 countries in the UK and one of them is so large that the other 3 may not even matter much in terms of who runs the country >.>

But I think that is getting off topic now.

a Brexit coalition though? I could get behind that <.<

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
There is an obvious crass joke about punchable faces to made here.
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I'm not the only one to think that almost straight away then >.>
 
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tomtom94

Member
I've been writing this up on Facebook. I'm not going to post it because I can't be fucked dealing with the arguments that would result (and I think someone might attempt to use it against me) but I'm going to post it here so it's not a complete waste.

Officially done with the Labour party.

The choice is between "I'm not Blair!" and "I'm not Corbyn!". That's it. That's what we have to show for a year's worth of sniping.

We all know the result either way - we'll get another centrist party who sit around in rooms discussing the impact of a reduction in interest rates and think about people in terms of voter demographics, the only question is whether you want that to be Labour (vote Eagle) or some merger of their rebels with the Lib Dems (vote Corbyn).

Corbyn is useless. The fact that they should have fucking listened to him on Iraq and the fact that the Labour party's response to the financial crisis was underwhelming does not change the fact that he can't lead. Sorry. He is a good man, and I think he has the right idea, but this is the wrong time.

The rest of the party can fuck off as well though. If Corbyn's supporters are easily-manipulated morons then it should be a piece of cake to put up someone who can convince them, but the candidates anointed by the centrist wing of the party sit around denying their aspirations because they're scared of losing.

Hillary Benn is claiming "Well if Labour hadn't gotten into power, we never would have got the NHS". Which is true - but Labour had to promise to build the NHS in the first place. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. I don't think anyone in the party would do anything that radical today. In truth I think they don't want to. Nobody in the party knows who they're supposed to answer to any more. Deselection is a legend rather than a threat.

You know why Blair won? Because he was radical. He was a radical centrist warmonger, but he stood for things and made people believe them. The Conservatives have gained power based around the oxymoronic statement of "compassionate conservatism". Where are the Labour politicians talking about 'aspirational socialism'?

Where have Labour been as UKIP and the Conservatives eat into their base constituencies with dogwhistle racism and blatant economic hypocrisy? Sitting in meetings and trying to make the Blair coalition work in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Watching voters all over the country reject the kind of centrism Labour used to offer, then reverting to that same policy like some kind of demented holding pattern. Claiming to want a left-wing voice in the party but steadfastly refusing to listen to it.

Rather like with the EU, I've barely been alive long enough to witness what we had slipping away. But when the adults do piss it away I hope they're happy with themselves.
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(I wrote it before Smith had decided to stand - but I think it's just as relevant anyway)
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I think the system with PM is good, but the PM and the Government should definitely be approved by the Parliament. Even if it's a formal step, it makes the MPs accountable.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
KingSnake said:
So the Dutch government (together with a PM) isn't validated by a vote in Parliament when appointed?
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Not many parliamentary governments have official investiture votes, only implicit votes of no confidence. As far as I know, no parliamentary government has an investiture vote for the office of Prime Minister. I mean, that's sort of the point of parliamentary government - the executive is an outcrop of the legislature and not and independent body with independent responsibilities.
 
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tomtom94

Member
Laura K reckons the Smith announcement, if it comes, will be after the NEC meeting - which makes me suspect he's waiting to find out if Corbyn will be on the ballot or not; if yes, he steps aside, if not, he stands so it doesn't look like a coronation.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Crab said:
Not many parliamentary governments have official investiture votes, only implicit votes of no confidence. As far as I know, no parliamentary government has an investiture vote for the office of Prime Minister. I mean, that's sort of the point of parliamentary government - the executive is an outcrop of the legislature and not and independent body with independent responsibilities.
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Strange, I guess I didn't know that there are so many Governments appointed without a vote of confidence in the Parliament. I find it strange, especially for the cases like this, mid-elections. Practically in the next GE any MP can say "I didn't want May to be PM" and that's that.

pigeon said:
That vote exists already. That's what the vote for the Queen's Speech is.
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Ah, OK. Is there going to be a Queen's Speech for this new Government?
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I find the complains about the lack of democracy in EU even funnier now. The EU commission in its entirety is validated by the European Parliament.
 
D

daviyoung

Banned
Jeremy "preaching to the echo chamber" Corbyn scores lower than a pot luck name draw.

I'm surprised he got a percentage at all and that the answer wasn't a resounding "who?"
 
U

Uzzy

Member
Crab said:
Those Corbyn figures. :x

BritGAF, do you reckon we can crowdsource a new leftwing party?
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Sure, we'll be promoting austerity politics within a week though, in order to push our polling numbers up to a level that doesn't promise electoral annihilation.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Uzzy said:
Sure, we'll be promoting austerity politics within a week though, in order to push our polling numbers up to a level that doesn't promise electoral annihilation.
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Just talk austerity, then get in and go wild. May has convinced people she's the new Ed Miliband on certain issues, just bullshit your way to power.


The left lacks creativity.
 
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Randdalf

Member
If the Labour NEC rule that Corbyn needs 51 votes to run for leader, will we see more than just Angela Eagle vying for the leadership? If there's even a party to be a leader of that is...
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Randdalf said:
If the Labour NEC rule that Corbyn needs 51 votes to run for leader, will we see more than just Angela Eagle vying for the leadership? If there's even a party to be a leader of that is...
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I don't think the Labour Party would be mad enough to actually try and stop Corbyn running. Defeating Corbyn by refusing to lend him nominations would destroy the party, completely and totally. May as well just split now and be done with it.

He has to be beaten fair and square.
 
K

kmag

Member
Crab said:
I don't think the Labour Party would be mad enough to actually try and stop Corbyn running. Defeating Corbyn by refusing to lend him nominations would destroy the party, completely and totally. May as well just split now and be done with it.

He has to be beaten fair and square.
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Thanks to Miliband's bright idea of giving anyone a vote if they pony up £3 there's no way Corbyn will ever get beaten fair and square. Maybe if the Unions turned against him, but that would take electoral defeat.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
The unions are fucking stupid and/or corrupt.

There is no interest for them to have Corbyn as leader because he isn't ever going to get elected.

Better a centerist PM than a right winger.
 
P

Pandy

Member
Meadows said:
The unions are fucking stupid and/or corrupt.

There is no interest for them to have Corbyn as leader because he isn't ever going to get elected.

Better a centerist PM than a right winger.
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There is no outstanding candidate that will win a GE among those prepared to stand for leader. That's the point. The 'centerist' MPs are destroying the party just so they can take ownership of the next GE defeat. They're absolutely bonkers.

And then they'll fail, and blame the defeat on Corbyn instead of their own inability to actually knuckle down and work with someone they don't 100% agree with.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
kmag said:
Thanks to Miliband's bright idea of giving anyone a vote if they pony up £3 there's no way Corbyn will ever get beaten fair and square. Maybe if the Unions turned against him, but that would take electoral defeat.
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Corbyn would get beaten if the right candidate ran. This £3 nonsense is just that - nonsense. Corbyn won more than 50% among people who had been members since 2010, and among people who had been members since 2005 - the same electorate that nearly chose David Miliband. He didn't win because of some bizarre takeover, he had strong a widespread support amongst people who had been with the Labour Party decades. He won a plurality of Labour Party CLP votes, for goodness' sake.

He won because the other three candidates were a shower of shite; and I say that as someone who voted Burnham first preference.
 
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