Support NeoGAF

[Acorn]

Is that some established tactic? Publish a bunch of bollocks in massive headlines and then put in a correction for ants a week later?

It's older than dirt.

 

[Maledict]

Is that some established tactic? Publish a bunch of bollocks in massive headlines and then put in a correction for ants a week later?

It is literally the bread and butter of British newspaper journalism. Occasionally they have to print front page corrections if ordered by a court but even then it's usually very small.

Murdoch has corrupted newspapers in our country that is shameful. We honestly have the worse written press in the world.

 

[Palculator]

Oldest trick in the book, actually.

It's older than dirt.

It is literally the bread and butter of British newspaper journalism. Occasionally they have to print front page corrections if ordered by a court but even then it's usually very small.

Murdoch has corrupted newspapers in our country that is shameful. We honestly have the worse written press in the world.

Guess I wasn't cynical enough yet! Working on that.

 

[daviyoung]

Is that some established tactic? Publish a bunch of bollocks in massive headlines and then put in a correction for ants a week later?

Obviously whatever regulatory body is responsible for print media has deemed this a reasonable form of retraction. The Sun won't go above and beyond the ombudsman's minimum requirements.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

New PM brought in unopposed.

Where has the leader of the opposition been today?

Cuba?

Seriously?

 

[Plasma]

New PM brought in unopposed.

Where has the leader of the opposition been today?

He's also facing a leadership contest that he might not be automatically included in which makes it even funnier.

 

[Log4Girlz]

.

A small oversight

 

[Lego Boss]

Thanks for the feedback. Let me double check that one.

Edit: Yes. Looks like Norway (through EEA) has the financial passport.

https://www.the-fca.org.uk/firms/passporting

Edit 2: As pigeon said.

Still need dat freedom of movement though.

Are Express/Mail/Sun demographic going to go for that?

Will May?

 

[Goodlife]

Cuba?

Seriously?

We need those trade agreements

 

[Arksy]

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+P-2016-001710+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

I think it needs to be unanimous for trade agreements. We might get a custom UK solution, but I doubt it'll be 'better' than the others and the more we try to change, the longer the negotiations will be.

I'm on phone at the moment, but Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty says that the exiting agreements only need to be agreed upon by a qualified majority.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Terms of exit are not terms of trade.

Pretending their are lots of options is folly assuming the UK don't want to be saddled with WTO terms of trade for years with its largest trading partners.

And wants access to financial services trade. And passporting. On this it should probably be noted eligible does not mean will be granted.

And realisation that the EEA agreement is going to have to be accepted as is.

And that the UK has basically no leverage.

 

[Arksy]

Terms of exit are not terms of trade.

Pretending their are lots of options is folly assuming the UK don't want to be saddled with WTO terms of trade for years with its largest trading partners.

And wants access to financial services trade. And passporting. On this it should probably be noted eligible does not mean will be granted.

And realisation that the EEA agreement is going to have to be accepted as is.

And that the UK has basically no leverage.

Two big issues;

1. The current agreements remain in place until another deal is struck. WTO rules won't come unto play unless 2 years after article 50 is invoked passes and no deal is reached.

2. No leverage? You're kidding right? I can't thnnk of a country with more leverage in the world right now in dealing wit the EU. It's a top 5 economy with a lot of currently established trade that no one will want to see end. Sure China and the US have bigger economies but the amount of trade is dwarfed by the UK.

 

[IpKaiFung]

It's a top 6 economy .

FTFY

 

[Xando]

Two big issues;

1. The current agreements remain in place until another deal is struck. WTO rules won't come unto play unless 2 years after article 50 is invoked passes and no deal is reached.

The current agreement stays in play until 2 years after triggering Art. 50.

If the UK has no deal by then (which i highly doubt) they'll go to WTO rules until there is some kind of agreement.

2. No leverage? You're kidding right? I can't thnnk of a country with more leverage in the world right now in dealing wit the EU. It's a top 5 economy with a lot of currently established trade that no one will want to see end. Sure China and the US have bigger economies but the amount of trade is dwarfed by the UK.

The UK imports more from the EU than it exports. If UK tries to leverage their economic power and the EU just says fuck it we'll use WTO rules the hit on the UK will be far harsher than on the EU. WTO deals would literally be a desaster for the UK.

 

[*Splinter]

2. No leverage? You're kidding right? I can't thnnk of a country with more leverage in the world right now in dealing wit the EU. It's a top 5 economy with a lot of currently established trade that no one will want to see end. Sure China and the US have bigger economies but the amount of trade is dwarfed by the UK.

Ha

FTFY

Beat me to it

 

[RedShift]

.

Things like this are why there shouldn't have been a referendum and I wouldn't feel bad completely ignoring the whole thing.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The only agreement that could be reached on terms of trade within the two year disentanglement period is an EEA entry, which will require the consent of all EEA members.

Because it's prebaked.

Any other arrangement is going to require more protracted negotiation. And trade under the terms of the WTO isn't even guaranteed.

Also, yes. Basically no leverage. Regardless of whatever misplaced sense of self-importance it has. WTO rules are more of a threat to service trade. Furthermore proportionality; the EU comprises 45% of UK's exports. The proportion the UK comprises of EU exports is much lower.
Membership of the EU is one of the reasons the UK has the level of FDI it sees. And so on and so forth.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

FTFY

Ha

Beat me to it

Pretty sure we're back at the number 5 spot. That one Reuters article you're probably thinking of was based on sterling dropping below 1.17€, which it isn't any more.

 

[kmag]

Two big issues;

1. The current agreements remain in place until another deal is struck. WTO rules won't come unto play unless 2 years after article 50 is invoked passes and no deal is reached.

2. No leverage? You're kidding right? I can't thnnk of a country with more leverage in the world right now in dealing wit the EU. It's a top 5 economy with a lot of currently established trade that no one will want to see end. Sure China and the US have bigger economies but the amount of trade is dwarfed by the UK.

It's no longer a top 5 economy thanks to the fall in Sterling. France overtook it the morning after the result.

 

[Stuart444]

Pretty sure we're back at the number 5 spot. That one Reuters article you're probably thinking of was based on sterling dropping below 1.17€, which it isn't any more.

Might drop below that after A50 is triggered

 

[Kelthink]

2. No leverage? You're kidding right? I can't thnnk of a country with more leverage in the world right now in dealing wit the EU. It's a top 5 economy with a lot of currently established trade that no one will want to see end. Sure China and the US have bigger economies but the amount of trade is dwarfed by the UK.

We're like the crinkly old man who has split up with his long-suffering wife and thinks he can get a supermodel. This current uncertainty is making us very unattractive.

 

[Funky Papa]

At this point the Brexit camp strategy can be summarized as "if we will it really, really hard it will happen. WAAAGH!"

It is not an easy pill to swallow, but the UK will have to take whatever deal the EU finds the most agreeable to the remaining members of the Union while still being punitive enough for the UK to serve as a cautionary tale.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Might drop below that after A50 is triggered

It sure might, but it does make me laugh to see everyone so keen to "correct" Arksy on that one

 

[anonymous_abc]

Pretty sure we're back at the number 5 spot. That one Reuters article you're probably thinking of was based on sterling dropping below 1.17€, which it isn't any more.

I'm pretty sure Britain is on course for no 1 again now that they are free of the European shackles and can finally trade all their good stuff with everyone else they weren't able to trade with in the past. The age of the Reliant Robin has officially begun! [/s]

 

[kmag]

Pretty sure we're back at the number 5 spot. That one Reuters article you're probably thinking of was based on sterling dropping below 1.17€, which it isn't any more.

Biggest economy is price in $. Anything under $1.36 put us behind France.

 

[Juicy Bob]

At this point the Brexit camp strategy can be summarized as "if we will it really, really hard it will happen. WAAAGH!"

It is not an easy pill to swallow, but the UK will have to take whatever deal the EU finds the most agreeable to the remaining members of the Union while still being punitive enough for the UK to serve as a cautionary tale.

While I can appreciate that, it's sadly only going to galvanise the Leaver mentality that we were right to leave the big, bad, mean EU if we get a harsh deal.

 

[dumbo]

I'm on phone at the moment, but Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty says that the exiting agreements only need to be agreed upon by a qualified majority.

Both the UK government document on article 50, and the trade commissioner have said that there would need to be 2 agreements.
- the exit agreement.
- a potential trade agreement.

The exit agreement may say that 'ongoing trade will be covered by [trade agreement]', but that trade agreement would need signing in the normal manner.

 

[*Splinter]

Pretty sure we're back at the number 5 spot. That one Reuters article you're probably thinking of was based on sterling dropping below 1.17€, which it isn't any more.

I think so too. The "correction" was a joke (for me, at least), but realistically we are unlikely to hold onto top 5 after art 50 is triggered, and certainly won't if we drop to WTO rules (which seems to be the current worst case scenario)

 

[*Splinter]

Also what about California? I remember they overtook France fairly recently? Did they drop again? I tried to Google this but am stoopid

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I'm pretty sure Britain is on course for no 1 again now that they are free of the European shackles and can finally trade all their good stuff with everyone else they weren't able to trade with in the past. The age of the Reliant Robin has officially begun! [/s]

Good one mate!

Biggest economy is price in $. Anything under $1.36 put us behind France.

Ah right, I didn't know about that convention - the only article I read on this (Reuters) compares both economies in Euros for some reason.

 

[StylusX]

Can someone please explain to me why we will leave and get a Norway type deal. It's everything we have now but worse. Just no point in leaving in the first place!

 

[oti]

Can someone please explain to me why we will leave and get a Norway type deal. It's everything we have now but worse. Just no point in leaving in the first place!

Welcome to Brexit.

 

[Tyaren]

Can someone please explain to me why we will leave and get a Norway type deal. It's everything we have now but worse. Just no point in leaving in the first place!

That's when the angry mob rules.

 

[YoungFa]

Is that some established tactic? Publish a bunch of bollocks in massive headlines and then put in a correction for ants a week later?

In germany AFAIK if the newspaper makes a mistake they have to display the correction as prominent as the mistake. So sometimes the correction is the headline on the frontpage.

 

[Juicy Bob]

I really hope Amazon has a special offer on Euros for Prime Day.

 

[Alx]

In germany AFAIK if the newspaper makes a mistake they have to display the correction as prominent as the mistake. So sometimes the correction is the headline on the frontpage.

We should make that a law for all EU members.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

In germany AFAIK if the newspaper makes a mistake they have to display the correction as prominent as the mistake. So sometimes the correction is the headline on the frontpage.

They don't have to unless ordered by a court. Obviously, you can choose to sue a newspaper.

 

[Zaph]

Can someone please explain to me why we will leave and get a Norway type deal. It's everything we have now but worse. Just no point in leaving in the first place!

We allowed mob rule and forgot how stupid and xenophobic our nation is.

 

[Alx]

Can someone please explain to me why we will leave and get a Norway type deal. It's everything we have now but worse. Just no point in leaving in the first place!

I suppose Brexiters see it as a transition phase towards... something else, where UK will be less attached to EU and has better ties with different markets. I think the "Flexit" document that surfaces here and there mentions UK building a new union of its own and on its own terms (a great Union, the best Union etc).
Of course that's a lot of wishful thinking, but the whole premise of Brexit is that in the long term UK could be strong enough to deal with international market and politics on its own.

 

[chadskin]

re: 'leverage'

What does this tell us about the UK’s bargaining power with the EU after a Brexit? Well, it certainly confirms that we would become one of the EU’s largest export markets, even if not necessarily the largest. But we’d still be far less important to the EU than they are to us – the EU still takes about 45 percent of our exports, down from 55 percent at the turn of the century. And, if you treat the EU as one country, as this analysis does, “exports” become considerably less important overall (intra-EU trade is far more important to almost all EU countries). Indeed, as this Eurostat table shows, only for Ireland and Cyprus does the UK represent more than 10 percent of total (including intra-EU) exports.

So how important would exporting to the UK be to the EU economy after Brexit? EU exports to the UK would represent about 3 percent of EU GDP; not negligible by any means, but equally perhaps not as dramatic as one might think. The EU, and even more so the UK, would certainly have a strong incentive to negotiate a sensible trading arrangement post-Brexit. But no-one should imagine the UK holds all the cards.

http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/after-brexit-how-important-would-uk-trade-be-eu#.V4SwuVd0TfY

 

[hodgy100]

Quite, but it's far from authoritative.

well yeah, but it clearly illustrates how we likely won't get exactly what people have voted for and there will be concessions.

 

[Arksy]

well yeah, but it clearly illustrates how we likely won't get exactly what people have voted for and there will be concessions.

What people voted for? 52% voted leave, 48% of people voted to remain. There should absolutely be a settlement that at least caters to the biggest concerns of both sides. Concessions should absolutely be made imo.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I.e. learn the concept of proportionality. That debunks Faragesque bullshit.

Graph from the same post.

Specifically goods. Including services drops it to about 14%.

About 160 billion euro of services exports are to the US.

~45% of UK exports are destined for the EU, including both goods and services.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Bu-Bu-But German cars!!!

 

[Arksy]

I.e. learn the concept of proportionality. That debunks Faragesque bullshit.

Graph from the same post.

Specifically goods. Including services drops it to about 14%.

About 160 billion euro of services exports are to the US.

~45% of UK exports are destined for the EU, including both goods and services.

Except that it doesn't disbunk anything. The entire argument is predicated on the idea that the UK doesn't have a choice in the matter. The whole point of Brexit was to allow the UK to open up to other countries given the EU's protectionist nature.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Except that it doesn't disbunk anything. The entire argument is predicated on the idea that the UK doesn't have a choice in the matter.

It has a choice. It can choose to accept the EEA and all that comes with it. Or not to.

Is trade with the UK important to the EU? Sure.

Is trade with the UK more important to the EU than trade with the EU is to the UK. Not even remotely.

 

[jelly]

I still can't believe we are going through with this. It was all such rubbish, they've run away after the lies. We are going to get a worse deal doing the same thing at best while kneecapping the economy. Does nobody see it? What the hell are we doing?

 

[PJV3]

Bu-Bu-But German cars!!!

It's so fucking embarrassing, it's loud man down the boozer level politics. These are our closest allies and we keep talking about bending them over and fucking up their union.

 

[hodgy100]

What people voted for? 52% voted leave, 48% of people voted to remain. There should absolutely be a settlement that at least caters to the biggest concerns of both sides. Concessions should absolutely be made imo.

I hope so! im glad you see things that way rather than the other way the vote is being viewed being "a slim majority voted leave so the 48% now have to get in line"

 

[Funky Papa]

The German car industry is already taking some real Ls as the pound keeps crashing, which is greatly hurting their profits. Luckily for them, they have no factories in the UK...

...other than MINI, Bentley and Rolls-Royce's. I'm sure their managers are thrilled about this.