Support NeoGAF

[Royal_Phalanx]

Yeah, I'm surprised anyone would think so. I mean, obviously pro-European posters are in the majority because on an international forum you're more likely to find internationalists, and GAF of course also skews heavily towards young people who tend to be less reactionary in their beliefs. GAF is more than large enough however that there are plenty of exceptions.

Should have narrowed it down to 'active posters on Off Topic'. I have never met a young person who supports Brexit. I know I personally will always in my heart be part of Europe, even if a small majority of my fellow citizens dragged me and millions of other young people out of Europe against their will. But ultimately, it's my generations' fault for not being engaged in the political process and abstaining from voting.

For people asking where my dad is from- he's Chinese. Ironic that he's anti-immigration and pro-Trump because his English is heavily accented and isn't that great in general. His English is merely understandable, that's it.

 

[Piecake]

Should have narrowed it down to 'active posters on Off Topic'. I have never met a young person who supports Brexit. But obviously, this is a big win for the reactionaries and nationalists, so young people here deserve the condolences of Europeans. I know I personally will always in my heart be part of Europe, even if a small majority of my fellow citizens dragged me and millions of other young people out of Europe against their will.

For people asking where my dad is from- he's Chinese. Ironic that he's anti-immigration and pro-Trump because his English is heavily accented and isn't that great in general. His English is merely understandable, that's it.

What's even more baffling is Trump's odd popularity in China

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...hinese-people-have-to-say-about-donald-trump/

You'd think a guy hates on China quite a bit, accuses them of stealing jobs, and vows to start a trade war with China would be kinda unpopular there.

 

[oti]

Is this a serious question? The EU won't allow its financial centre to be out of its jurisdiction. That would be insane. They will do everything in their power to either strip London of its power or take it under their control by imposing strict rules under which UK based banks can trade services with the EU. They have all the initiative in this to force London's hand in at least making it so they NEED to have the majority of their EU trade in the EU.

I thought so, I was just taken aback by that line in the linked article.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

It's interesting how the same facts strengthen my belief in European unification while they stimulate anti-European sentiments in you. I feel that the rise or return to greatness of various powers in the world that possess vast lands with huge populations gives us extra reason to reassess our place in the world as well. I can't however come to any conclusion that would lead me to oppose European unification based on that, quite the contrary. Would my position and that of my nation in the world be strengthened by standing alone? Would my voice be heard more loudly if my nation stood alone and isolated rather than as part of a larger union?

I also often ask myself, the people who suggest individual European nations are 'stronger apart' or similar, do they also believe that, say, Jiangsu would be better off parting ways with China were they given the option? Do they believe their position in the world would be strengthened? Their voice more loudly heard?

Yes, the world is turning, but it is turning toward a situation where nations with populations in the hundreds of millions are increasingly running the show. I see no reason to believe that process will stop either. It doesn't seem sensible to believe that the relative decline of the West even can be stopped.

If the decline of the west can't be stopped: a) why worry? And b) maybe let's not be part of "The West", to the extent that that's possible?

Edit:

One thing I would say is that I really don't have one iota of "anti European sentiment" in my body, which you seem to think I do. I don't want Europe to fail. If you guys have more money, that's obviously good for us. And I'll point out another time (not that I imagine it'll do much good), that anti-EU =/= anti- Europe.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

If the decline of the west can't be stopped: a) why worry? And b) maybe let's not be part of "The West", to the extent that that's possible?

The UK is a typical Western services based economy. Manufacturing isn't going to come back unless we make the minimum wage lower than China, etc or robots will make very few jobs be created anyway. I don't see why leaving the EU will shield you from any of this decline. Western nations like the US aren't part of the EU and they're on the way down with Europe too. I could also answer a) by asking 'Why leave the EU? What could be so important that it's worth upsetting the status quo?' I don't buy the democracy or the sovereignty argument because we elect the EU Parliament directly and the EU Commission is made up of member state heads of government (who we elect). The idea that leaving the EU will suddenly make the government more accountable is a utopian view in itself. I've been following EU Parliament proceedings for about a year now and what I've seen is an institution far more willing to compromise to disagreeing views than the UK government. This swung me 100% towards remain.

 

[Kabouter]

If the decline of the west can't be stopped: a) why worry? And b) maybe let's not be part of "The West", to the extent that that's possible?

Since it is a relative decline that is not caused by a direct decline of the West but rather a rise of the 'rest', I don't see how you would change the 'membership'? The only time Britain in the past was able to buck a global trend to this degree was when it was the cradle of the industrial revolution (or rather, Britain accelerated a trend already happening to Western Europe to an unbelievable degree for itself compared to others). But even if such a technological revolution was to occur again, and it did originate in Britain, it is exceedingly unlikely to remain limited to Britain for very long given the way the world works now.

One thing I would say is that I really don't have one iota of "anti European sentiment" in my body, which you seem to think I do. I don't want Europe to fail. If you guys have more money, that's obviously good for us. And I'll point out another time (not that I imagine it'll do much good), that anti-EU =/= anti- Europe.

Feel free to read anti-EU where I wrote anti-Europe.

 

[PdotMichael]

Which Western nations are on the way down? Did I just miss something?

 

[Kabouter]

Which Western nations are on the way down? Did I just miss something?

In relative terms, all of them. In absolute terms, none of them given that the pace of technological progress is increasing effective prosperity to a massive degree. All the money even the world's richest had a century ago wouldn't have bought them tons of things even the working class take for granted now, like the quality of healthcare. Could it be better? Sure, and we should always strive for that, but we've come a long way .

 

[PdotMichael]

In relative terms, all of them. In absolute terms, none of them given that the pace of technological progress is increasing effective prosperity to a massive degree. All the money even the world's richest had a century ago wouldn't have bought them tons of things even the working class take for granted now, like the quality of healthcare. Could it be better? Sure, and we should always strive for that, but we've come a long way .

That doesn't really answer my question.

The EU (or the Western world) isn't declining because other nations are growing and improving their economical output.

 

[Theonik]

That doesn't really answer my question.

The EU (or the Western world) isn't declining because other nations are growing and improving their economical output.

They are losing their dominance. Without the EU the global influence of even the strongest European nations is too negligible.

 

[PdotMichael]

The original claim is that the EU is declining and it would be better for the UK to leave that ship early.
The statement is wrong. Europe gained more power since we moved away from the bi-polar world of the Cold War.

 

[Theonik]

The original claim is that the EU is declining and it would be better for the UK to leave that ship early.
The statement is wrong. Europe gained more power since we moved away from the bi-polar world of the Cold War.

Definitely. If anything the EU is an effort to counteract exactly this situation. Leaving it is wanting to fade away into irrelevance.

 

[phisheep]

Conversation in the shop yesterday:

CUSTOMER: Isn't it marvellous that we're leaving the EU! There's such a positive air about the country now, it's wonderful!

ME: (noncommittal noises)

CUSTOMER: We won't have anyone telling us what to do. We've got freedom of speech now that we've never had before!

ME: (after stunned silence) er, didn't we always have freedom of speech?

CUSTOMER: Well, yes, but NOBODY LISTENED. They've got to listen to us now.

ME: (silently wrapping customers purchases)

CUSTOMER: I think it is FANTASTIC the way we're all together in this. What a great time!

ME: (silently disagrees)

 

[killer_clank]

CUSTOMER: I think it is FANTASTIC the way we're all together in this. What a great time!

ME: (silently disagrees)

Oh lord. Half the country dies inside whenever they hear any brexiteer open their mouth.

 

[phisheep]

Oh lord. Half the country dies inside whenever they hear any brexiteer open their mouth.

I was sorely tempted to put a 30% surcharge on her to reflect the Brexit cost.

 

[nickcv]

Conversation in the shop yesterday:

CUSTOMER: Isn't it marvellous that we're leaving the EU! There's such a positive air about the country now, it's wonderful!

ME: (noncommittal noises)

CUSTOMER: We won't have anyone telling us what to do. We've got freedom of speech now that we've never had before!

ME: (after stunned silence) er, didn't we always have freedom of speech?

CUSTOMER: Well, yes, but NOBODY LISTENED. They've got to listen to us now.

ME: (silently wrapping customers purchases)

CUSTOMER: I think it is FANTASTIC the way we're all together in this. What a great time!

ME: (silently disagrees)

Well she is right : you had to listen to that no sense

 

[Jisgsaw]

CUSTOMER: Well, yes, but NOBODY LISTENED. They've got to listen to us now.

I can't even... It's exactly the other way around!!

Well, at least I hope government in the EU will finally learn to stop using the EU as scapegoat for every unpopular decision (unless of course it is really EU's fault and there's nothing the government could have done).
I don't have high hopes though.

 

[RedSparrows]

I can't even... It's exactly the other way around!!

Well, at least I hope government in the EU will finally learn to stop using the EU as scapegoat for every unpopular decision (unless of course it is really EU's fault and there's nothing the government could have done).
I don't have high hopes though.

Of course thy won't. The EU is a great scapegoat for a certain kind of Brit (apparently, 52% of them).

 

[Jisgsaw]

Of course thy won't. The EU is a great scapegoat for a certain kind of Brit (apparently, 52% of them).

I was talking about governments from other EU countries.
If the UK leaves, EU will become an even better scapegoat, as the UK wouldn't be a part of it anymore.

 

[fanboi]

I also often ask myself, the people who suggest individual European nations are 'stronger apart' or similar, do they also believe that, say, Jiangsu would be better off parting ways with China were they given the option? Do they believe their position in the world would be strengthened? Their voice more loudly heard?

Or London from England / UK.

 

[RoyalFool]

Surprised by how few pro-brexiters are in here, what did you guys do to them?

I voted leave, don't regret it so far. Apart from the exchange rate having a minor impact on my holiday plans it's pretty much life as normal. Maybe I'll change my tune once we start the proceedings and things get serious..

I was morally against the idea of a united states of europe, which seemed to be where EU was heading. I don't think history will be able to judge if it was a mistake or not for at least another century. Market uncertainty is a self-fulfilling prophecy and isn't a fair indication that we 'dun goofed'.

 

[PdotMichael]

Surprised by how few pro-brexiters are in here, what did you guys do to them?

I voted leave, don't regret it so far. Apart from the exchange rate having a minor impact on my holiday plans it's pretty much life as normal. Maybe I'll change my tune once we start the proceedings and things get serious..

I was morally against the idea of a united states of europe, which seemed to be where EU was heading. I don't think history will be able to judge if it was a mistake or not for at least another century. Market uncertainty is a self-fulfilling prophecy and isn't a fair indication that we 'dun goofed'.

You still profit from the EU and its laws and trading deals.

 

[Joni]

Surprised by how few pro-brexiters are in here, what did you guys do to them?

I voted leave, don't regret it so far. Apart from the exchange rate having a minor impact on my holiday plans it's pretty much life as normal. Maybe I'll change my tune once we start the proceedings and things get serious..

I was morally against the idea of a united states of europe, which seemed to be where EU was heading. I don't think history will be able to judge if it was a mistake or not for at least another century. Market uncertainty is a self-fulfilling prophecy and isn't a fair indication that we 'dun goofed'.

We used logic and experts. They fled.

 

[Jisgsaw]

Surprised by how few pro-brexiters are in here, what did you guys do to them?

I voted leave, don't regret it so far. Apart from the exchange rate having a minor impact on my holiday plans it's pretty much life as normal. Maybe I'll change my tune once we start the proceedings and things get serious..

I was morally against the idea of a united states of europe, which seemed to be where EU was heading. I don't think history will be able to judge if it was a mistake or not for at least another century. Market uncertainty is a self-fulfilling prophecy and isn't a fair indication that we 'dun goofed'.

But you had an explicit veto against the formation of a USE...
Why risk every thing else for the very faint (no country is in favor of a USE for the moment) possibility of something being triggered, that you even had a veto against?

 

[Audioboxer]

Is Scotland independent yet and back in the EU?

No?

Then fuck off.

thewitcher3fuckoffvampire.gif

 

[Uzzy]

We used logic and experts. They fled.

The logic and experts that promised immediate economy calamity? I must have missed WW3 breaking out while the global recession that Brexit caused gave us mass unemployment, a stock market collapse and deserted high streets.

Honestly, there's just not much to discuss. Just a few remainers leaping on every little bit of moderately bad news and going 'Brexit is insane!'

 

[RoyalFool]

To be honest, I expect to get more work once we leave, I mostly contract for the government and their current GCloud process has to include putting tenders out to the whole of the EU, and they cannot take locality into account when scoring the tenders.

There is no common sense in awarding a tender to a company in Hamberg when a company in your locality scored almost as highly, but would be far less costly to work with.

But yer, that's not a "why everybody should vote leave" as I'm sure the folks in manufacturing have the opposite problem to worry about.

But you had an explicit veto against the formation of a USE...
Why risk every thing else for the very faint (no country is in favor of a USE for the moment) possibility of something being triggered, that you even had a veto against?

I always felt the Veto was a last resort, like when a vegan turns up to a party and suddenly burgers are off the menu for everyone. I'd rather back out, than force our own ideology on the EU at the expense of the majority.

 

[Joni]

The logic and experts that promised immediate economy calamity? I must have missed WW3 breaking out while the global recession that Brexit caused gave us mass unemployment, a stock market collapse and deserted high streets.

Honestly, there's just not much to discuss. Just a few remainers leaping on every little bit of moderately bad news and going 'Brexit is insane!'

Brexit hasn't happened and you already saw a huge drop in the pound, job stagnation, people on this very forum getting fired, and a rise in hate crimes while every leave politician has jumped ship. One even going to germany.

To be honest, I expect to get more work once we leave, I mostly contract for the government and their current GCloud process has to include putting tenders out to the whole of the EU, and they cannot take locality into account when scoring the tenders. There is no common sense in awarding a tender to a company in Hamberg when a company in your locality scored almost as highly, but would be far less costly to work with.

But yer, that's not a "why everybody should vote leave" as I'm sure the folks in manufacturing have the opposite problem to worry about.

tenders include price. To be cheaper and still get a lower score means your company scored much lower on other elements. It also meant you could have won tenders in Europe as well.

 

[DeadOnions]

The logic and experts that promised immediate economy calamity? I must have missed WW3 breaking out while the global recession that Brexit caused gave us mass unemployment, a stock market collapse and deserted high streets.

Honestly, there's just not much to discuss. Just a few remainers leaping on every little bit of moderately bad news and going 'Brexit is insane!'

But we haven't left yet and we've already seen this "bad news". When do the positive effects start?

 

[Zaph]

The logic and experts that promised immediate economy calamity? I must have missed WW3 breaking out while the global recession that Brexit caused gave us mass unemployment, a stock market collapse and deserted high streets.

Honestly, there's just not much to discuss. Just a few remainers leaping on every little bit of moderately bad news and going 'Brexit is insane!'

Lol

Just because your tiny little world hasn't changed, you think the warnings must be fear mongering. Brexit hasn't even started yet and the amount of projects and investments that have been, at best, put on hold, at worst, most likely cancelled, is staggering. And that's just from my own social and professional circle. Over the coming years, when design, construction, or production firms aren't being contracted to execute those projects, that's when you'll feel it (as well as the HMRC).

 

[Timbuktu]

The logic and experts that promised immediate economy calamity? I must have missed WW3 breaking out while the global recession that Brexit caused gave us mass unemployment, a stock market collapse and deserted high streets.

Honestly, there's just not much to discuss. Just a few remainers leaping on every little bit of moderately bad news and going 'Brexit is insane!'

Remainers don't actually want the UK to fail and are likely the ones working hardest to mitigate the effects of the ridiculous situation forced upon us. That doesn't stop the actual referendum and the brexit mindset being 'insane' as an self inflicted catastrophe.

 

[Uzzy]

Brexit hasn't happened and you already saw a huge drop in the pound, job stagnation, people on this very forum getting fired, and a rise in hate crimes while every leave politician has jumped ship. One even going to germany.

It obviously sucks that people on this very forum have been fired, and the rise in hate crimes is utterly deplorable. But the economic armageddon that was promised simply hasn't happened. Where's Osborne's promised emergency budget? You know, the £15b of cuts and £15b of tax increases in the event we voted for Brexit? Oh, wait, Osborne got kicked out after his mate Cameron did a runner.

Yes, there's been some bad news, just as there was bad news before the vote. There's also been some positive news, just as there was positive news before the vote.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

"All the experts promised me that I would be in for a world of hurt if I shot myself in the dick. But there have only been limited consequences since I publically declared my intention to shoot myself in the dick, proving said experts wrong! So I might as well go ahead and shoot myself in the dick." -- Brexit

 

[Mr. Sam]

It obviously sucks that people on this very forum have been fired, and the rise in hate crimes is utterly deplorable. But the economic armageddon that was promised simply hasn't happened. Where's Osborne's promised emergency budget? You know, the £15b of cuts and £15b of tax increases in the event we voted for Brexit? Oh, wait, Osborne got kicked out after his mate Cameron did a runner.

Yes, there's been some bad news, just as there was bad news before the vote. There's also been some positive news, just as there was positive news before the vote.

An example of the positive news being...?

 

[AHA-Lambda]

It obviously sucks that people on this very forum have been fired, and the rise in hate crimes is utterly deplorable. But the economic armageddon that was promised simply hasn't happened. Where's Osborne's promised emergency budget? You know, the £15b of cuts and £15b of tax increases in the event we voted for Brexit? Oh, wait, Osborne got kicked out after his mate Cameron did a runner.

Yes, there's been some bad news, just as there was bad news before the vote. There's also been some positive news, just as there was positive news before the vote.

What positive news??

Speaking as a graduate I'm having a hard enough fucking time finding a job, I didn't need the stupid xenophobic wilfully ignorant jingoistic shite of utter morons making my life any fucking harder.

 

[PdotMichael]

There is a reason why no one wants to trigger article 50.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

We used logic and experts. They fled.

I'm surprised o_o
I thought they'd had enough of experts?

Is Scotland independent yet and back in the EU?

No?

Then fuck off.

thewitcher3fuckoffvampire.gif

I like the cut of your gib sir

 

[Kabouter]

What positive news??

Speaking as a graduate I'm having a hard enough fucking time finding a job, I didn't need your stupid xenophobic wilfully ignorant jingoistic shite making my life any fucking harder.

While I understand the frustration, do please keep this discussion civil.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

While I understand the frustration, do please keep this discussion civil.

Fair enough, noted.

 

[Nordicus]

It obviously sucks that people on this very forum have been fired, and the rise in hate crimes is utterly deplorable. But the economic armageddon that was promised simply hasn't happened. Where's Osborne's promised emergency budget? You know, the £15b of cuts and £15b of tax increases in the event we voted for Brexit? Oh, wait, Osborne got kicked out after his mate Cameron did a runner.

Yes, there's been some bad news, just as there was bad news before the vote. There's also been some positive news, just as there was positive news before the vote.

If things really are going so swimmingly then the British politicians sure are dumb not invoking Article 50 immediately and taking power back from EU in the UK. They just seem to play hot potato with it. How odd.

What's the worst that can happen? Aside from all the things financial analysts predicted, as results of actually leaving the EU instead of the results of a referendum

 

[Captain Chaos]

It obviously sucks that people on this very forum have been fired, and the rise in hate crimes is utterly deplorable. But the economic armageddon that was promised simply hasn't happened. Where's Osborne's promised emergency budget? You know, the £15b of cuts and £15b of tax increases in the event we voted for Brexit? Oh, wait, Osborne got kicked out after his mate Cameron did a runner.

Yes, there's been some bad news, just as there was bad news before the vote. There's also been some positive news, just as there was positive news before the vote.

Show us the positive news?

I buy goods to be sold in UK from China in $USD and my products for 2017 I am working on currently have 20% higher costs, we will pass this onto the prices we charge retail and retail will pass this onto end consumers.

 

[Dilly]

The article that actually triggers the UK leaving the EU hasn't even been triggered yet, and Brexiters find it a victory that their country isn't going down in flames even though legally everything is still exactly the same as before.

No wonder the Brexit vote won, people really have no sense of long term consequence. Time to post the stock market numbers again!

 

[Nordicus]

The article that actually triggers the UK leaving the EU hasn't even been triggered yet, and Brexiters find it a victory that their country isn't burning yet.

Look at all this gasoline covering everything, we're still fine!

 

[Zaph]

The article that actually triggers the UK leaving the EU hasn't even been triggered yet, and Brexiters find it a victory that their country isn't going down in flames even though legally everything is still exactly the same as before.

No wonder the Brexit vote won, people really have no sense of long term consequence. Time to post the stock market numbers again!

But they voted with their heart!

 

[Acorn]

Look at all this gasoline covering everything, we're still fine!

Time to light a fag and relax.

 

[Dilly]

It obviously sucks that people on this very forum have been fired, and the rise in hate crimes is utterly deplorable. But the economic armageddon that was promised simply hasn't happened. Where's Osborne's promised emergency budget? You know, the £15b of cuts and £15b of tax increases in the event we voted for Brexit? Oh, wait, Osborne got kicked out after his mate Cameron did a runner.

Yes, there's been some bad news, just as there was bad news before the vote. There's also been some positive news, just as there was positive news before the vote.

Sure, and the all that extra money needed to replace the EU's funding is coming straight out of Westminster's collective asses.

 

[Joni]

It obviously sucks that people on this very forum have been fired, and the rise in hate crimes is utterly deplorable. But the economic armageddon that was promised simply hasn't happened. Where's Osborne's promised emergency budget? You know, the £15b of cuts and £15b of tax increases in the event we voted for Brexit? Oh, wait, Osborne got kicked out after his mate Cameron did a runner.

The Brexit hasn't happened either and you already see a huge economic effect. They didn't need an emergency budget but there was a huge interest rate cut. Which was also denounced as 'project fear'. The new guy will indeed not make an emergency budget, he'll just raise the deficit despite being already one of the world's worst offenders. Your economy has been reduced the fastest since 2009. You see Argentina, Spain, Northern Ireland and Scotland pouncing on the skeleton of the United Kingdom.

If things really are going so swimmingly then the British politicians sure are dumb not invoking Article 50 immediately and taking power back from EU in the UK. They just seem to play hot potato with it. How odd.

They just postponed it from middle of 2016 to end of 2016 to start of 2017 to end of 2017. They are showing their confidence. Mainly Johnson and Farage who ran for the hills the minute they won.

 

[twobear]

can we please add 'we haven't left the EU yet' to the OP, some people are clearly struggling with this

 

[QuicheFontaine]

can we please add 'we haven't left the EU yet' to the OP, some people are clearly struggling with this

I know, right?

 

[travisbickle]

"All the experts promised me that I would be in for a world of hurt if I shot myself in the dick. But there have only been limited consequences since I publically declared my intention to shoot myself in the dick, proving said experts wrong! So I might as well go ahead and shoot myself in the dick." -- Brexit

Also, Great Britain has done really well in the olympics even though you declared you would shoot yourself in the dick. #dontbelievetheexperts