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[travisbickle]

Our entire 'democracy' is built around ignoring the wishes of the majority. It's why we end up with Governments in almost total control with around 36% of the vote.

36% of the people who vote. Isn't it around 25% of the total amount of people who are eligible to vote? I think the people who don't bother have the right idea.

 

[Halph n Halph]

If the vote was simply ignored,would it be inconceivable that the party next in government would be Ukip?

 

[JP_]

Basically the UK is not one step closer to brexit than it was 6 weeks ago.

Have the markets settled down at all or they still hurting with volatility?

 

[Mr. Sam]

If the vote was simply ignored,would it be inconceivable that the party next in government would be Ukip?

I'm trying to think of a term that's more descriptive of the situation than unprecedented. I don't think there is one. Basically, even if people voted for them in huge amounts, they're absolutely hobbled by the first past the past voting system, which is why they can have four times the votes that the SNP have and yet only have one MP (one fewer than before the election). Even a massive swing, just because of where their supporters are located geographically, would result in dozens of seats rather than anything close to an outright majority.

 

[BigAl1992]

Out of curiousity, did anyone report on this in the thread yet?

The European Union won't bend its rules to preserve access for the City of London once Britain leaves the bloc, according to German politician Michael Fuchs, an ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel.

The legal and regulatory framework for so-called passporting is geared to banks based in an EU country, and negotiating any new arrangement promises to be "very difficult", Mr Fuchs said in a Bloomberg interview yesterday.
Passporting rules, which allow a bank incorporated in any EU member state to sell its products and services throughout the $19 trillion integrated economy, are "not negotiable", he said.

That's a rebuff to lobbies such as the British Bankers' Association, which says its goal remains to keep "the current full level of access to the EU market".
While UK Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will fight for the City to retain its passporting rights, bankers and lawyers say she faces an uphill battle trying to win concessions from EU partners.

"If you're member of a club you have certain benefits, but if you're out, you will not have the benefits any more," said Mr Fuchs, a deputy leader of Ms Merkel's grouping in the German parliament. "It's not going to be an easy game."
Avoiding isolation for U.K.-based banks is one of May's biggest challenges after Britons voted on June 23 to end more than four decades of EU membership.

With future relations between the EU and the UK in limbo for now, the other member countries are seeking to chart the way forward.
Mr Fuchs said talks on access for UK banks will "require a lot of effort".

As an example of the difficulties, he cited a legal bar to letting London-based banks manage initial public offerings in the EU after Brexit.
While the passporting agreement also includes non-EU countries Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway, Mr Fuchs said banks operating in the EU must be subject to EU supervision and can't be run out of London when the UK is no longer a member.

Meanwhile, more than a quarter of European companies plan to reduce the amount of business they do with UK banks after Britain exits the European Union, according to a survey by Greenwich Associates. Around 28pc of companies on the continent are planning to move away from British banks, with 20pc shifting business to global lenders, the financial services consulting firm said yesterday citing responses from 63 European and UK corporations. About 8pc of UK companies will increase the amount of commerce they conduct with domestic lenders, according to the survey.

More than half of the European companies think banks in the UK will lose their passporting rights, compared with 37pc of British corporations, Greenwich said, citing 128 responses.
About 45pc of the companies on the continent expected Brexit to have a negative or very negative long-term economic impact, while almost 30pc of British firms felt similarly.

 

[tomtom94]

I'm trying to think of a term that's more descriptive of the situation than unprecedented. I don't think there is one. Basically, even if people voted for them in huge amounts, they're absolutely hobbled by the first past the past voting system, which is why they can have four times the votes that the SNP have and yet only have one MP (one fewer than before the election). Even a massive swing, just because of where their supporters are located geographically, would result in dozens of seats rather than anything close to an outright majority.

Could still be enough for a coalition though..

 

[Funky Papa]

Next FT cover story:

City abandons hope of access to EU single market
-Plan for beefed up Katanga-style deal

 

[PdotMichael]

Persimmon has bounced back within 8 weeks

When the markets bounced back, finger pointers then used the, but but FTSE 250, then when that recovered it was "but but divergence" and used Persimmon to point the finger.

Before you scramble to Taylor Wimpey I'll save you the trouble, it's back to normal as well. Hell of a dead cat bounce folks.

Just to note I'm pro staying in the EU and as always not a thing has happened yet, just a shockwave and some weak hands. No shit has hit the fan yet despite the claims of the remainers and this isn't everything is fine despite the claims.

Is there somewhere a FTSE post generator in the Internet? People posting the same kind post once a week.

 

[Halph n Halph]

I'm trying to think of a term that's more descriptive of the situation than unprecedented. I don't think there is one. Basically, even if people voted for them in huge amounts, they're absolutely hobbled by the first past the past voting system, which is why they can have four times the votes that the SNP have and yet only have one MP (one fewer than before the election). Even a massive swing, just because of where their supporters are located geographically, would result in dozens of seats rather than anything close to an outright majority.

Hopefully you are right and the referendum result was so close that tory and working class labour heartlands would still vote as they always have done.
The fear I have would be a huge protest vote in usually safe seats for both major parties.

 

[Jezbollah]

Our entire 'democracy' is built around ignoring the wishes of the majority. It's why we end up with Governments in almost total control with around 36% of the vote.

But wouldn't you say that's the result of there being more than two parties? I mean, (and I've stated it whenever has raised the same point) there hasn't been a UK General Election since the 1930s where the winning party has achieved over 50% of the popular vote.

Hopefully you are right and the referendum result was so close that tory and working class labour heartlands would still vote as they always have done.
The fear I have would be a huge protest vote in usually safe seats for both major parties.

The thing is, with the advent of Corbyn, and the illuminating vote of Leave by those in the typical Labour heartlands of the North, all the Conservatives would need to do would be for them to set the camp out properly and say "elect us, and we will achieve Brexit in the best way possible". I can see that flipping a lot of red votes blue. I think it'll be a bigger percentage of those Labour voters voting for a Brexit party than Conservative voters going the other way if Labour suddenly campaign to remain in as part of a potential GE manifesto.

Interesting times.

 

[TimmmV]

But wouldn't you say that's the result of there being more than two parties? I mean, (and I've stated it whenever has raised the same point) there hasn't been a UK General Election since the 1930s where the winning party has achieved over 50% of the popular vote.

The most popular party getting 35ish% of the vote is because there are more than two parties. The fact that a party with only 35ish% of the vote still gets more or less total control is because of the electoral system

The largest party should have the most power in parliament for sure, just not basically all of it when about 65% of the electorate voted for someone else, thats what is undemocratic.

 

[DiGiKerot]

But wouldn't you say that's the result of there being more than two parties? I mean, (and I've stated it whenever has raised the same point) there hasn't been a UK General Election since the 1930s where the winning party has achieved over 50% of the popular vote.

The problem is when 35% of the vote garners you more than 50% of the overall seats in Parliment, effectively rendering the opposing opinions of 65% of those voting meaningless as long as the sitting government does nothing to upset their own party too radically. Effectively zero reason for any kind of political compromise.

 

[Theonik]

The problem is when 35% of the vote garners you more than 50% of the overall seats in Parliment, effectively rendering the opposing opinions of 65% of those voting meaningless as long as the sitting government does nothing to upset their own party too radically. Effectively zero reason for any kind of political compromise.

It's also the kind of thinking that leads us to crazy political gambles like the referendum as well as partially responsible for the result in driving protest votes. If the Tories were more concerned with appealing to a majority of voters than splitting to Ukip then they'd not have risked it.

 

[nekkid]

As if we needed more evidence that we don't know what the fuck we're doing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37219143

 

[jufonuk]

I still think we won't leave they are going to fudge this

 

[oti]

As if we needed more evidence that we don't know what the fuck we're doing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37219143

I love how May immediately offered Apple to settle in the UK after theoretically leaving Ireland. It paints a picture of a government in disarray grasping for any straw that could make Brexit look anything other than a terrible idea. Why would Apple ever relocate their "EU business" out of the EU? It's just sad.

I get the feeling May will trigger Art. 50 either drunk or not at all at this point.

 

[Lego Boss]

I love how May immediately offered Apple to settle in the UK after theoretically leaving Ireland. It paints a picture of a government in disarray grasping for any straw that could make Brexit look anything other than a terrible idea. Why would Apple ever relocate their "EU business" out of the EU? It's just sad.

I get the feeling May will trigger Art. 50 either drunk or not at all at this point.

We can let Apple use the ARM buildings as their chips are used in their phones.

The dream of vertical integration!

 

[SKINNER!]

I love how May immediately offered Apple to settle in the UK after theoretically leaving Ireland. It paints a picture of a government in disarray grasping for any straw that could make Brexit look anything other than a terrible idea. Why would Apple ever relocate their "EU business" out of the EU? It's just sad.

hahaha yup. Just makes May (and the UK to some extent) look pathetic and desperate.

 

[EmiPrime]

May ruled out a second referendum on Brexit, and insisted that there would be “no attempts to sort of stay in the EU by the back door”.

"We must continue to be very clear that “Brexit means Brexit”, that we’re going to make a success of it. That means there’s no second referendum; no attempts to sort of stay in the EU by the back door; that we’re actually going to deliver on this."

She said Britain was at a “very significant” turning point and that it could play “a new positive role” in the world.

"Can I just remind everybody that this really is a very significant moment for the country, as we look ahead to the next steps that we need to take. We have the opportunity to forge a new positive role for the UK in the world; to make sure that we are that government and country that works for everyone – that everyone can share in the country’s prosperity."

.

 

[FlammableD]

May ruled out a second referendum on Brexit, and insisted that there would be “no attempts to sort of stay in the EU by the back door”.

"We must continue to be very clear that “Brexit means Brexit”, that we’re going to make a success of it. That means there’s no second referendum; no attempts to sort of stay in the EU by the back door; that we’re actually going to deliver on this."

She said Britain was at a “very significant” turning point and that it could play “a new positive role” in the world.

"Can I just remind everybody that this really is a very significant moment for the country, as we look ahead to the next steps that we need to take. We have the opportunity to forge a new positive role for the UK in the world; to make sure that we are that government and country that works for everyone – that everyone can share in the country’s prosperity."

Spoiler

was to be expected

 

[Mindwipe]

Lawson came over as completely crazy on Radio 4 this morning. Suggesting we basically just don't bother with any trade deals.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

.

I would argue that the UK is already playing a new, positive role in the world:

 

[Zaph]

I'll believe it when May invokes a50.

But it does make me laugh each time she proclaims 'Brexit means Brexit', like there was some overwhelming pro-Brexit result. They won, but it was 51.9 to 48.1. It's almost as if she has to treat Leavers with kid-gloves and reassure them their little dream will happen.

 

[jufonuk]

I'll believe it when May invokes a50.

But it does make me laugh each time she proclaims 'Brexit means Brexit', like there was some overwhelming pro-Brexit result. They won, but it was 51.9 to 48.1. It's almost as if she has to treat Leavers with kid-gloves and reassure them their little dream will happen.

this pretty much, either we will invoke it and fuck ourselves over or we will not so much but rather just resign ourselves to a corner, stay tied to the EU but spin it as a victory of independence.

I don't think it will happen this year. not for a few years at least.

lets see though..

was in Greenwich yesterday enjoying the sunshine and influx of tourists and sightseers

it would be a damn shame something handled so idiotically could screw all us up.

 

[jelly]

She talks like please implode so we don't do this or is crazy enough to think she can do something with it like a tax haven which is great for the rich. It's also scary how empire like they all come across as. Are we that blinkered.

I've been thinking the EU might be better off without the UK but please take Scotland.

 

[oti]

Can I just remind everybody that this really is a very significant moment for the country, as we look ahead to the next steps that we need to take.

Thanks for the reminder there, I thought this all was just a bad dream.

 

[KingSnake]

Thanks for the reminder there, I thought this all was just a bad dream.

Only if they would stop looking ahead and actually act for once.

 

[PJV3]

Lawson came over as completely crazy on Radio 4 this morning. Suggesting we basically just don't bother with any trade deals.

The man is a complete cunt, he probably hasn't got long left if his attitude towards the planet in general is anything to go by.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

I hope she's smart enough to stay in the single market and not go full Brexit.

 

[KingSnake]

I hope she's smart enough to stay in the single market and not go full Brexit.

Brexit means Brexit.

 

[Trumpets]

But it does make me laugh each time she proclaims 'Brexit means Brexit', like there was some overwhelming pro-Brexit result. They won, but it was 51.9 to 48.1. It's almost as if she has to treat Leavers with kid-gloves and reassure them their little dream will happen.

Last time I looked 52 was a higher number than 48.

The man is a complete cunt, he probably hasn't got long left if his attitude towards the planet in general is anything to go by.

You seem nice.

 

[jufonuk]

I hope she's smart enough to stay in the single market and not go full Brexit.

you never go full Brexit.

 

[RedSparrows]

Last time I looked 52 was a higher number than 48.

As if the reverse result with the same margin would have shut Eurosceptics up, and as if it's indicative of anything other than a clusterfuck result nobody will be happy with once we jump.

 

[cabot]

I'll say it again and again, the 52% winning result should point to the most conservative and safe exit of the EU possible.


It absolutely does not mandate wilfully throwing ourselves out of the single market on a hope to curb immigration.


Of course, the nuances of the result isn't important to a number of prominent brexiteers. They won. They get exactly what they want.

David Davis talking about the will of the people and then compounding that with full on exit of the EU and saying we'll get just a good a deal with China, the US and Australia is just very frustrating to see.


As for May, she's already proving to be rubbish with an audit that probably will lead nowhere and completely ignoring any solution to the obesity problem. She's unwilling to get her hands in the pot for this, but its a-ok when encroaching on everyone's civil liberties when it comes to national security.

 

[PJV3]

You seem nice.

I'm average, run of the mill, he's a complete cunt.

 

[Theonik]

But it does make me laugh each time she proclaims 'Brexit means Brexit', like there was some overwhelming pro-Brexit result. They won, but it was 51.9 to 48.1. It's almost as if she has to treat Leavers with kid-gloves and reassure them their little dream will happen.

She's a candidate that became prime-minister with no public election whatsoever voted by MPs of a party 60%+ of the population does not support. Considering this, a decision where only 48% percent of the people are shat on seems overwhelmingly democratic!

 

[SteveWD40]

She's a candidate that became prime-minister with no public election whatsoever voted by MPs of a party 60%+ of the population does not support. Considering this, a decision where only 48% percent of the people are shat on seems overwhelmingly democratic!

She claims no GE now, but I am waiting until late September when the Labour leadership is sorted to see if she means that, she was quick to critique Brown for having no mandate after all...

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-be-at-heart-of-brexit-deal-theresa-may-says

Immigration a 'red line' for Britain in Brexit deal, says this Guardian article. It is now believed that Britain will leave the single market entirely.

 

[Funky Papa]

So be it.

 

[BigAl1992]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-be-at-heart-of-brexit-deal-theresa-may-says

Immigration a 'red line' for Britain in Brexit deal, says this Guardian article. It is now believed that Britain will leave the single market entirely.

Well then, that's their choice. I'm sick of hearing from people, both in real life and on here, about what'll happen to the UK outside of the single market. Time for them to put their money where their mouth is.

 

[EmiPrime]

The Tories would sooner rule over this country's ashes than do the right thing and potentially get punished at the next GE. Power at all costs.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

I truly despair. These ideologues want to harm the economy willfully based on some immigrant boogeyman.

 

[KingSnake]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-be-at-heart-of-brexit-deal-theresa-may-says

Immigration a 'red line' for Britain in Brexit deal, says this Guardian article. It is now believed that Britain will leave the single market entirely.

At least it will be more interesting to watch than a boring EEA deal. Will the banks still believe in fairy-tales tomorrow?

 

[oti]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-be-at-heart-of-brexit-deal-theresa-may-says

Immigration a 'red line' for Britain in Brexit deal, says this Guardian article. It is now believed that Britain will leave the single market entirely.

British Refugees Welcome!
We have Bratwurst and access to the single market!

 

[jufonuk]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-be-at-heart-of-brexit-deal-theresa-may-says

Immigration a 'red line' for Britain in Brexit deal, says this Guardian article. It is now believed that Britain will leave the single market entirely.

I'm fed up of being whipped into a panic by every article/story So I'm taking a I'll believe it when it happens approach, it's nice to want things but realistically some form of movement and access to free markets will stay.

Until May and the EU actually announce what is going to happen I am going to remain cautiously optimistic.

 

[Tacitus_]

At least it will be more interesting to watch than a boring EEA deal. Will the banks still believe in fairy-tales tomorrow?

Were they ever believing? Seemed like they started exploring options on where to relocate the day after the vote.

 

[SporeCrawler]

At least it will be more interesting to watch than a boring EEA deal. Will the banks still believe in fairy-tales tomorrow?

Banks will open new branches in frankfurt, paris etc

 

[Biggzy]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-be-at-heart-of-brexit-deal-theresa-may-says

Immigration a 'red line' for Britain in Brexit deal, says this Guardian article. It is now believed that Britain will leave the single market entirely.

This government needs to prove they can 'control' immigration from outside the EU before drawing imaginary lines.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Liam Fox, who will be leading trade efforts with the rest of the world, has argued that not being in the single market is a price worth paying for border control

Bizarre.

 

[KingSnake]

Were they ever believing? Seemed like they started exploring options on where to relocate the day after the vote.

Yes, a lot of them still believe a EEA+banking passport will be the outcome. Sure, most of them have contingency plans, some of them already put in motions some, but none acted yet under the assumption of losing banking passport and the access to single market.