Mocking oppononts isn't a good idea. kmag articulately argues the benfits of EU membership without resorting to insults. Maybe if more people on the remain side argued as kmag does then they might have done better.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
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Mocking oppononts isn't a good idea. kmag articulately argues the benfits of EU membership without resorting to insults. Maybe if more people on the remain side argued as kmag does then they might have done better.
QuicheFontaine
Member
jufonuk
not tag worthy
I am for staying in the EU, I am being sarcastic in the sense to the leaver's attitudes about how they think pluck and blitz spirit is enough, it isn't. that's what is scaring me.
I hope the UK doesn't do anything so damn silly as fuck it' maximum brexit, convert three people to remain.
I guess you have Trumpets in your ignore list then
I disagree.
Sarcasm can be part of the responses, given the (at least in this very moment) clusterfuck that brexit has been until now.
That's fine, argue the issues that concern you! Not the ones that you don't even understand
QuicheFontaine
Member
lol I'd actually forgotten about him, point taken.
But to be fair, I completely understand his attitude. This thread is pretty much a den of misery. Any good news is either dismissed or quickly swept under the carpet, whereas even the slightest rumour of anything negative is given full credence and extrapolated to maximum ridiculousness (care packages to relatives in Sunderland?).
I think you can figure out who is worth listening to by seeing who takes an even handed approach. For example, Crab and Kabouter, while obviously staunchly Remain, at least acknowledged that the recent PMI figures are at least mildly good news (while warning not to get carried away).
Edit:
Well, go ahead and have at it. I'm not particularly fussed, and I'm not trying to "tone police" this thread or whatever. It just gets a bit tedious imo.
Trust me: been told to go back to my country is way more tedious than a little sarcasm here and there.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
how dare you sir!!, how very dare you!!
(maximum joviality, I am not mocking or attacking anyone)I am not an expert in the slightest, although I worry for the future of the UK, and what is best for my family. I may Brexit the UK.
But I keep getting myself sucked into the Brexit debate and wasting time on doing other proactive things.
I see what you're saying, but I disagree with your impression of the thread. I feel like the outright bad news is dismissed as much as the good news, while good or bad "indicators" see fair discussion (although I'm giving disproportionate consideration to a few posters here, such as the examples you gave).
QuicheFontaine
Member
Well....yeah? Ok, I trust you on that front.
I don't think that's how it works though: someone was racist to you, so these threads should be filled with smarmy shitposts? What?
It's actually a massive opportunity. Even though it's obvious that the fundamentals of UK economy haven't changed much (actually massively advantaged from the weakened pound), the economists refuse to change their forecasts. So we get situations like today where the forcasts for services PMI were massively below the actual result (and anyone who followed manufacturing/construction PMIs expected). Then we see a massive 50 pip spike just on what should be expected financial results.
You do know he used to be an editor for The Times before he went into politics right? (UPDATE: it says so in the image you posted. My bad). This is just him practically getting his old job back (no interview process required of course) after his political one went down the shitter. Journalism and politics has gone hand in hand in this country for a loooooong time and nothing will ever change.
What I meant is that having some sarcasm is not to be considered as "tedious" imo.
Also, although they might contain fake slogan like you mentioned above, I don't see any "shitpost" in this thread or any other brexit-related one.
The fundamentals haven't changed because nothing has actually changed yet.
The massive advantage from the weakened pound will taper off when the input costs rise (which the PMI survey suggests they've started to do as they rose at the fastest pace in 33 months.)
I've still never actually seen any proper examples of this 'massive opportunity' no one has been able to fabric a concrete example of one which doesn't just go get FTA's and prosper. Ignoring the comparative disadvantage of having to renegotiate 53 other FTA's and 86 MRA's along with throwing away unfettered access to the largest market on Earth, have people actually looked at the current state of world trade agreements?
The only people eager to conclude them are the likes of Canada and Australia who have massive natural resources they're desperate to export. Everyone else is either joining trade blocs or getting shafted by the USA and China. India is happy to do goods only deals which might remove the 33% tariff on Whiskey but otherwise be pretty fucking useless for the UK
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Well, let's not go that far. I mean, they're good news... but at the same time, I think they're irrelevant to a Brexit thread; they don't tell us anything useful about Brexit either way. You might as well have said "hey, we have some 24*C days forecast for the next week or so, what lovely weather, Brexit wasn't all bad, right?". I've been saying for some time now "wait til October at the very earliest"; my personal opinion is that posting about PMIs that for the most part still reflect pre-xit conditions is pointless and just encourages poor quality shit-flinging.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I'm just ignoring all this Brexit stuff until something actually happens.
I'm distressed by the referendum result, immediately worse off as a result of the fallen pound, and not particularly optimistic about the future outcome(s) - but I don't see any point bitching about it on the internet. It is what it is, at least so far.
So for now I'm getting my excitement from hanging about in US PoliGaf.
I'm distressed by the referendum result, immediately worse off as a result of the fallen pound, and not particularly optimistic about the future outcome(s) - but I don't see any point bitching about it on the internet. It is what it is, at least so far.
So for now I'm getting my excitement from hanging about in US PoliGaf.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
That's even more boring than our politics, though - Trump has already lost and Clinton has already won and it's just playing the waiting game for however many months. At least we are living in interesting times!
jufonuk
not tag worthy
yes Trump has LOST and according to the City of London, Remain won.
let us wait and see.
I will keep calm about Brexit until we are fucked..
PJV3
Member
We won't know for 5 years how good or bad it will really be, the government are prepared to spend a lot of money to ease the transition.
I hope it isn't too bad or we will have a massive bill, a smaller economy and be facing austerity like never before. But I don't look at market news either way anymore, maybe when we start negotiating it will be worthwhile.
QuicheFontaine
Member
"Let's not go th..." you won't let me have 'mildly good news' now?! Hmph! I take it all back.
What it tells us is that the sky has not fallen in and that the UK is open for business! The lowered value of the pound allows us to be more competitive, especially in services where we basically don't need to import anything. It didn't take a genius to see these figures coming - hell, I did, and I know dick-all about the economy!
Nah, Trump's gonna win.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I went to bed early on referendum night, slept soundly, and woke up rather like the opening scene in Four Weddings and a Funeral. Nothing is ruled out.
Can you give me an examples of such services where the UK are now being more competitive?
QuicheFontaine
Member
I can give you an example, which is basically just my own job (all my posts are pretty much anecdotal): legal services.
That's interesting, because based on articles like this: http://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/the-effect-of-brexit-on-lawyers
it doesn't really seem to be beneficial at all, if the UK will actually leave EU.
it doesn't really seem to be beneficial at all, if the UK will actually leave EU.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I think Quiche was probably talking more in the right now rather than the future - it's very difficult to say what the effects will be when nobody seems to have a bloody clue what regulations are going to look like
My firm sells software as a service so we're surely doing pretty well on the back of the low pound. But I know that there have already been murmurings about potentially relocating datacenters to the EU if we can no longer legally keep EU customers' data in the UK. For now it really needs to be "wait and see"
My firm sells software as a service so we're surely doing pretty well on the back of the low pound. But I know that there have already been murmurings about potentially relocating datacenters to the EU if we can no longer legally keep EU customers' data in the UK. For now it really needs to be "wait and see"
You can store EU data outside the EU if you meet the adequecy standards. From May 2018 the new standard will be the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).
Of course lets not tell the Brexiteers to follow that you'd be ceding their sovereignty by having to ape and maintain UK law directly with EU rules. Of course to actually sell anything to the common market you'll be largely doing that anyway.
Edit: oh I forgot we'd also have to mirror the NIS directive as well to maintain adequacy.
Interesting to know, I just "keep the lights on", so to speak, so don't get too involved in that side. Most of the pushback I'm aware of has come from the customer side, I'm sure that psychology plays into it a lot.
No, it's just because it happens to be something I was interested and I remember having some interesting articles about this. Also, having discussed this with some of the lawyers in my company, it's an interesting subject, although I kind of agree being it less "visible" as the effects of a real brexit.Did you just google "legal services Brexit" and send the top link?
Be honest now
CyclopsRock
Member
Mine too - creative industries. Almost no hard imports, almost all costs are labour in GBP and (for the company I work for, at least), almost all our clients are abroad and pay in their domestic currency.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
David Davies say they will take the time to negociate
basically they are going to talk to all the businesses in the UK.
not Date as to when art 50 is being invoked. basically seems like it is a we are talking and thinking about it.
protecting EU national rights, so long as EU protect UK people
basically they are going to talk to all the businesses in the UK.
not Date as to when art 50 is being invoked. basically seems like it is a we are talking and thinking about it.
protecting EU national rights, so long as EU protect UK people
Royal_Phalanx
Member
May promises 'some control' over EU citizens moving to the UK post Brexit. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...s-based-immigration-system-for-britain-brexit
Is Japanese and US pressure at G20 having an impact on the previously unshakeable 'red line'?
Is Japanese and US pressure at G20 having an impact on the previously unshakeable 'red line'?
National consensus. Considering a 48/52 split between remain and leave this should be good. Of course, he's not actually going to try to establish a national consensus. They can't even get a consensus in their own party nor I suspect the cabinet.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
There is no 'national consensus' for Brexit. Pie in the sky nonsense from the Leave camp. Only way you can build a consensus is to join the EEA/EFTA. And Parliament was always supreme.
He absolutely nailed the whole mess. Referendums are bullshit in a parliamentary democracy, farmers need EU money (that's just straight national security), "Brexit means Brexit" is meaningless, and he's worried about his kids paying for this massive mistake.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Subsidies for farmers is a national security issue??
I thought those subsidies had been guaranteed to continue anyway?
PJV3
Member
Only until 2020 I think, Leadsom has to create a new scheme.
It's nice to be able to at least partially feed the country in the event of a disruption to international trade
It'll be a hoot trying to get an equivalent level of subsidies through the wto
QuicheFontaine
Member
Well that's really the best they can do isn't it? They can't guarantee them into a period where they may not be in government any longer (although to be fair at this point it's looking like they probably will be).
Is this some new definition of "national security" that I'm not aware of?
PJV3
Member
Well Leadsom having to create something new is the important bit, a new parliament will do as it pleases on any subject.
No more than maintaining the national ability to build ships or subs
Food production, water and power supplies have always been considered strategic national resources
I wouldn't worry too much about farmers to be honest. The interests of farmers tend to appeal strongly to the more conservatively oriented, and many people feel like their country should at least be able to partially supply the food it consumes, particularly in a somewhat larger country like the UK.
Control of/secure access to resources and basic life needs are essential strategic considerations for any power.
Control of/secure access to resources and basic life needs are essential strategic considerations for any power.
Wiki said:
Most British farmers' production costs are higher than what their product can be sold for, but we cannot rely on imports to feed our population. So yes, maintaining local food production infrastructure is most definitely a national security issue. This isn't a new thing.
Most definitely.
QuicheFontaine
Member
We can't? I thought we already did.
thats misleading because they only have to guarantee it for 6 to 15 months at most because the eu will be funding it until the UK gets out of the EU 2 years after triggering a50. We are looking at 2019 or 2020 before the EU money runs dry.
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