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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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*Splinter

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The report challenges claims that the Brexit vote was just about disillusionment with the institutions of the European Union or that it was solely about immigration, the issue which featured most prominently in the referendum campaign.
I'm not sure I understand. Areas with lower public spending voted leave, surely that reinforces the idea that the vote was about "disillusionment". Ok so they specify "disillusionment with the institutions of the European Union" specifically, but is that what was being claimed in the first place?

It's silly to downplay the role of immigration - we already know that was a primary issue on voters minds, finding other reasons for the vote doesn't make it go away.

Also I'm not sure exactly how they "adjust for regional prosperity", but is that a normal thing to do when looking at public spending?
 

*Splinter

Member
As far as I can tell, the two biggest reasons for the Leave vote where:

- Disillusionment with the government/status quo, "protest vote".
- Immigration

The report seems to refute the first by misrepresenting it as being tied to the EU specifically, then undermine the second by pretending it was the "sole" reason (despite already covering and refuting the other main reason) just so they can say "but this report shows it wasn't the only reason!".
 
Well, its been a notable comment in the political discourse of this country for years that politicians focused far too much on the development of London, but the rhetoric around Brexit helped turned some of that into:
"It's actually the fault of Brussels!"
"If we leave the EU we'll get jobs back for our local economies!"

Add in those just wanting to give the middle finger to mainstream parties that left them behind, and its not hard to see where a good chunk of the Leave vote came from without it being to do with migration.
 

kmag

Member
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...tal-after-brexit-than-banks-think-eu-ceos-say


Many EU companies are already calling “game over” for the City. More than half say London will lose “passporting” rights, which let financial-services firms based in one EU country sell their services throughout the bloc, according to a Greenwich Associates report last month. Twenty-eight percent of companies on the continent said they were planning to move away from British banks, with 20 percent shifting business to global lenders, Greenwich Associates said, based on a survey of 63 companies in the U.K. and elsewhere in the EU.
Banks in London want May to strike an interim agreement to preserve passporting, which 13,500 financial firms use to do business into and out of the U.K., before the country formally starts Brexit talks. Without an interim deal, some banks have warned they’ll shift operations to other EU countries.
 
Well, its been a notable comment in the political discourse of this country for years that politicians focused far too much on the development of London, but the rhetoric around Brexit helped turned some of that into:
"It's actually the fault of Brussels!"
"If we leave the EU we'll get jobs back for our local economies!"

Add in those just wanting to give the middle finger to mainstream parties that left them behind, and its not hard to see where a good chunk of the Leave vote came from without it being to do with migration.

Tbf though that's partly because London is the only part of this country that isn't shit, natural resources and beauty aside.
 

TimmmV

Member
As someone who actively avoids everything inside the M25 I couldn't disagree more

Same. My standard of living is way higher in Manchester than it would be in an equivalent job in London

Even funnier if the British start immigrating to those countries for jobs.

I cant imagine the people prepared to emigrate are the ones who voted to leave. They'll just find some other poor scapegoat
 
Even funnier if the British start immigrating to those countries for jobs.

Reminds me, there was a cabbage (or was it cauliflower?) farmer being interviewed by the BBC not too long ago, who explained that if things really went the way of a full Brexit, they'd likely have to expand operations in eastern europe because of the increasing cost at home.
 

Lego Boss

Member

There was a HSBC conference in Brum the other day and whilst their retail arm is moving to a new building there (Canary Wharf is overpopulated), creating 1500 jobs for the local economy, many of the employees were saying that the global HQ will stay at CW after the lease ends in 2018.

That's the official line, not sure if that's what is *really* going to happen, but if they're going to ship out, they're going to have to do it ASAP, they employ something like 120K people there (yeah, I couldn't believe it either).

If that's the case, then that will be good for the sector. I was also struck by how positive they all seemed about it: currency was tanking, but retail and investment (along with financial crime LOL) was meant to be doing well.

Just thought I would report that.
 

sammex

Member
Fewer biscuits in a packet? Thanks, Brexit!

Cs6EvEoUEAAzpW4.jpg
 
Serious question. Is there anyway to "un-ring" that bell? Could the referendum be over turned? Or is the UK just fucked?

As much as I would like to see an overturn, a lot of English parliamentary regions voted leave so most MPs have their jobs on the line. Therefore nobody has the courage to go overturn it.
 
Serious question. Is there anyway to "un-ring" that bell? Could the referendum be over turned? Or is the UK just fucked?

It could, and the results aren't legally binding, but ignoring the results of a referendum (even though it was so close, and in my opinion, this time, would be the right thing to do), has potentially worrying implications for the future of democracy.

Of course, the question should never have actually been put to a public vote.
 
As much as I would like to see an overturn, a lot of English parliamentary regions voted leave so most MPs have their jobs on the line. Therefore nobody has the courage to go overturn it.

While simultaneously, even MPs in regions that voted to remain (ie, mine) have stated they wouldn't vote against a triggering of Article 50 if it came to Parliament, because they're accepting the national result.
 
Serious question. Is there anyway to "un-ring" that bell? Could the referendum be over turned? Or is the UK just fucked?

Its been said countless times but the vote wasnt legally binding. The government could just say "nope"

Someone would have to take one for the team and basically commit political subside for that to happen and well.. thats not going to happen with the twats current incharge.


I think they delay it as long as they possibly can and maybe someone down the road has a better idea
 
It could, and the results aren't legally binding, but ignoring the results of a referendum (even though it was so close, and in my opinion, this time, would be the right thing to do), has potentially worrying implications for the future of democracy.

Of course, the question should never have actually been put to a public vote.

What kind of worrying implications does it have I'd the parlament does it job? Members of a parlament are for a reason not bound to anything except the own conscience. It's an additional safety measure in a working democracy.

The strong elements of direct democracy in Switzerland wouldn't work without a strong parlament.
 
What kind of worrying implications does it have I'd the parlament does it job? Members of a parlament are for a reason not bound to anything except the own conscience. It's an additional safety measure in a working democracy.

The strong elements of direct democracy in Switzerland wouldn't work without a strong parlament.

Its more to do with democracy as understood by the layman in the modern day - namely, that the will of the people is understood as paramount. A government that actively decides to ignore the wishes of the population is a government that's going to get a lot of flak, especially one for a nation that put itself front and centre in the whole mess of 'building democracy' in regions like the middle east.

But as you say, that's part of the point. Majority rule isn't always rule of the smart or the just, and most people don't have the qualifications to make a decision regarding international politics. On the other hand I would equally say that many of the people currently nominated to do the job also lack such qualifications, but then that's a problem with regards to how and why they're put into such positions to begin with (oh party politics).

Thinking on it, I suppose part of the particular problem right now is that Cameron's resignation, while a brilliant move in ensuring Boris Johnson was going to be screwed over somehow, also places a greater impetus than usual upon their successor - in this case, May - to actually act upon the vote. After all, they got to be Prime Minister because of Brexit, and from the perspectives of many, that's all they're there to do. While I suspect from May's perspective, she may find it to ultimately be the only way to solidly legitimise her position, since she's refusing a General Election, and the vote to make her the Conservative leader never went to the member base. Thus the only way she can currently be seen to have a democratic basis to her position is to follow the referendum result.
 

chadskin

Member
The govermment was “talking to our European friends and partners now in the expectation that by the early part of next year you will see an article 50 letter,” Johnson said from New York, where he has been at the United Nations.

“We will invoke that and in that letter I’m sure we will be setting out some parameters for how we propose to take this forward – principles.”

Article 50 sets a two-year limit for departure. But Johnson said this could be speeded up: “You invoke article 50 in the early part of next year, you have two years to pull it off – I don’t actually think we will necessarily need to spend a full two years. But let’s see how we go.”

Beyond this, Johnson gave few clues as to what form of Brexit might be pursued, beyond an assurance of continued trade with the EU: “We are going to benefit from the fantastic opportunities for greater free trade with our friends in the EU,” he said.

“It’s overwhelmingly in their interests. Not only do we buy more German cars than anybody else we drink more Italian wine than any other country in Europe – 300m litres of Prosecco every year. They’re not going to put that at risk.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...on-uk-aiming-start-eu-brexit-talks-early-2017

Still clueless I see.
 

Acorn

Member
See, I did a quick little fact check on this, just to amuse myself. The UK is not the chief importer of Italian wine within Europe, but second behind Germany (while the US takes the global first place). I know that's not Mr Johnson's point, but it would be nice if he could get his taglines straight.
Why? Only a few months ago the public told him misrepresentations don't matter.
 
The BBC one the Duncan quote is from, I assume.

Yep. 'Brexit: A Very British Coup?'

A lot of it one would already know from just following the news the last several months, but it also has some rather... interesting moments as well. Perhaps the most telling part is how one of the guys behind Leave gleefully explaining how men like Farage or Johnson don't really care for the consequences of what they say.
 
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