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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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Koren

Member
How in the world can turn Brexit out a good way for the UK?
I don't know... It's just that the "EU will play nice and give UK really good terms" doesn't seem probable to me, they have an interest in setting an example of how hard it can be to leave the EU.

Honestly, I wouldn't rule out a Frexit should things turn out well for UK. The "get our country back" sounds right for some too.
 

chadskin

Member
Some details from May's speech tomorrow leaked: https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/posts/1702910896700315

THERESA MAY TO ANNOUNCE ALL EU LAW TO BE ENSHRINED IN BRITISH LAW BY SPECIAL ACT OF PARLIAMENT AND ONLY GRADUALLY REVIEWED AND REPEALED AFTER BREXIT

It's Brexit day tomorrow at Tory Party conference - and in her first speech to delegates as their leader and PM, Theresa May feels she must say something substantive.

She obviously cannot lay down what she would like our future trading relationship with the EU to be, because the cabinet is completely split on that.

But I do expect her to make an important announcement - about the status of EU laws and regulations after we actually leave the EU.

What I understand she will say is that there will be legislation here to enshrine in British law all laws and regulations stemming from our membership of the EU and single market.

In other words, leaving the EU would not lead to a single EU law or regulation being abolished at that instant.

The plan would be to abolish unnecessary laws and regulations over subsequent years.

The reason for this so-called "grandfathering" of EU law would be to reassure the private sector that they know what is and is not lawful in respect of how they make their products, how they do their deals and how they employ people.

And Theresa May also wants to reassure employees that their jobs would not become any less secure as a result of leaving the EU.

There may be some of her colleagues who lobbied for Brexit who will see her decision to initially preserve all these EU laws as a betrayal.

But she will point out that on leaving the EU no new laws and regulations would be imposed (unless against the odds we remain members of the EU single market). "It would be the end of the great flow of EU red tape" said one of her colleagues.

And the prime minister will also say that in subsequent years British governments and other governments can review the stock of inherited EU laws and amend or abolish what they don't like.
 

PJV3

Member
While I'm still averse to the whole affair, if this is true, then May has at least some sense in her.

I thought we were expecting something similar anyway, it was going to be way too complicated to sift through it law by law and rule by rule.
 

oti

Banned
Thank god, us leaving the EU would be insane, I would move to Belgium or Germany if that happens, not even kidding (my field of work is very international, thankfully).

Feels more like half the nation would leave the Netherlands.
 
Brexit begins: Theresa May takes axe to EU laws


Theresa May will on Sunday announce she will repeal the 1972 European Communities Act in a move that will formally begin the process of making Britain’s Parliament sovereign once again.

Addressing the Conservative Party Conference for the first time as leader, Mrs May will declare that her Government will begin work to end the legislation that gives European Union law supremacy in Britain.

In its place, a new “Great Repeal Bill” will be introduced in Parliament as early as next year to put power for the nation’s laws back into the hands of MPs and peers.

The announcement is Mrs May’s first firm commitment on Brexit since becoming Prime Minister in July and marks a major step on the road to ending the country’s EU membership.

...
She said on Saturday night: “We will introduce, in the next Queen’s Speech, a Great Repeal Bill that will remove the European Communities Act from the statute book. That was the act that took us into the European Union.

“This marks the first stage in the UK becoming a sovereign and independent country once again. It will return power and authority to the elected institutions of our county. It means that the authority of EU law in Britain will end.”

Mr Davis, who is charged with leading the negotiations as Secretary of State for Exiting the EU, will explain the decision during his speech.

“EU law will be transposed into domestic law, wherever practical, on exit day,” he will say. “It will be for elected politicians here to make the changes to reflect the outcome of our negotiation and our exit. That is what people voted for: power and authority residing once again with the sovereign institutions of our own country.”~

...

Vote Leave, the formal campaign to leave the EU, named repealing the European Communities Act as one of their six Brexit “road map” promises a week before the vote.

The group was headed up by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. The new “Great Repeal Bill”, introducing the change, will be included in next year's Queen's Speech in spring 2017.

The “historic” piece of legislation will allow Parliament to write parts of EU law it wants to keep into the British system while discarding unwanted elements. Government sources hope the move will show that ministers want to give Parliament a say on the Brexit process and will open negotiations up to parliamentary scrutiny. However, the process is not without risk.

A majority of both MPs and peers will need to vote for the Bill for it to pass, raising the prospect pro-EU Lords could hold up its progress.

Speaking on Sunday, Mr Davis will move to assure workers concerned that key rights which were introduced on an EU-wide level will remain in place.

“To those who are trying to frighten British workers, saying 'When we leave, employment rights will be eroded’, I say firmly and unequivocally 'no they won’t’,” he will state.

The legislation will only come into effect on the day that Britain leaves the EU – expected to be as early as 2019, two years after Mrs May formally begins the negotiations.

Mrs May’s speech at 2pm will open the Conservative Party’s four-day annual conference in Birmingham. Despite growing pressure from Eurosceptic Tory backbenchers and EU leaders, she is not expected to name a date for triggering Article 50, the mechanism to start talks.

She is also expected to steer clear of the “hard Brexit” and “soft Brexit” labels which have emerged as a way of defining where people stand on the negotiations in recent days.

She will use the speech to emphasise that her Government has a plan to fulfil the vote for Brexit in June that triggered the upheaval that let her enter No 10.

The conference will also give Mrs May a platform to better explain her vision for her premiership after a summer largely bereft of major policy announcements.

Earlier this week Ken Clarke, the long-serving Tory MP who held posts in three prime minister’s cabinets, criticised Mrs May for running a “government with no policies”.

Anonymous briefings about the tight control she holds on policy and willingness to clash with other Cabinet ministers have also surfaced. Aides rebut the criticism but say Mrs May will spell out her vision for social change and an economy that works for “everyone” during the conference.

Best of wishes, UK-GAF.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
So they're going to pass a law that does nothing until they do something else?
 

Xando

Member
She said on Saturday night: “We will introduce, in the next Queen’s Speech, a Great Repeal Bill that will remove the European Communities Act from the statute book. That was the act that took us into the European Union.
So this will be basically triggering article 50?
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Wait, wait. So instead of triggering article 50, UK tries to suspend/cancel its EU membership by passing a law that cancels the participation/admission in the treaty? Do I get this right?

Edit: reading more, it's just a preparatory step for changing the laws.
 
So this will be basically triggering article 50?

Formally, no. Just that EU law will no longer be UK law (I assume) going forward.

So what is the 1972 European Communities Act and why does it matter?

A year before joining what was then the European Economic Community in 1973, the Government paved the way with the 1972 Act. It is the crucial piece of legislation that makes European Union law automatically binding in the UK. If there is a clash with British law, EU law takes precedence

If we have already voted for Brexit, why is repealing the Act so important?
By announcing the Great Repeal Bill, which repeals the 1972 Act, the Government is taking the first steps on the formal legislative route needed to Brexit following the referendum. Politically, it will also soothe the nerves of Euroscpetics who believe the pace of Brexit has been too slow.
 

la_briola

Member
So this will be basically triggering article 50?

No.

"Mrs May’s speech at 2pm will open the Conservative Party’s four-day annual conference in Birmingham. Despite growing pressure from Eurosceptic Tory backbenchers and EU leaders, she is not expected to name a date for triggering Article 50, the mechanism to start talks."
 

chadskin

Member
Formally, no. Just that EU law will no longer be UK law (I assume) going forward.

The legislation will only come into effect on the day that Britain leaves the EU – expected to be as early as 2019, two years after Mrs May formally begins the negotiations.

I'm not sure why they need to pass this two years or so before the UK actually exits the EU, other than perhaps for show but as long as the UK is an EU member state, it obviously still has to follow EU law.

As for Article 50:
Britain will not wait for German elections due in September 2017 before triggering Article 50 to begin the formal process of leaving the European Union, Prime Minister Theresa May told the Sunday Times newspaper.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-may-st-idUSKCN1213NF
 

Lucreto

Member
“To those who are trying to frighten British workers, saying 'When we leave, employment rights will be eroded’, I say firmly and unequivocally 'no they won’t’,” he will state.

They will slowly erode them after 2019 and get The Sun and the other toilet roll rags to paint it as a good thing like to make the UK more competitive and find another boogie man to blame while stripping the law like the NHS.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah then I'm not sure what the purpose is.

Basically: there is so much EU law affecting the UK that it would be impossible for Parliament to discuss the repeal of every individual piece - it would take decades of purely focusing on this and nothing else, and that's no exaggeration. As a result, this bill would give the executive the power to decide which bits of EU law are kept or not, without having to put the repeal of those decided against to a vote.
 

norinrad

Member
Basically: there is so much EU law affecting the UK that it would be impossible for Parliament to discuss the repeal of every individual piece - it would take decades of purely focusing on this and nothing else, and that's no exaggeration. As a result, this bill would give the executive the power to decide which bits of EU law are kept or not, without having to put the repeal of those decided against to a vote.

Crab, aren't you a lawyer? Couldn't you apply for a job to help your government? Just a curiosity that's all.
 

jufonuk

not tag worthy
They will slowly erode them after 2019 and get The Sun and the other toilet roll rags to paint it as a good thing like to make the UK more competitive and find another boogie man to blame while stripping the law like the NHS.
Back to Victorian Britain .. child labour and all woo hoo

Also this repeal law is a great bluff. You can say we are making headway look at what we have done , etc . Do basically nothing else for a while and keep all the idiots happy. Still keep trading.
I expect more acts like this to pass. Making or they are doing things but more like announcements of announcements.

UK is seen to be backing out the door. But won't want to be pushed out.

We will want to keep the City and EU trade . Basically the repeal law will be to stop some "immigrants" quotes to show it will be used a a vague mean no nothing term and stop no one and that's it.
 

Joni

Member
The purpose is simple. To get this approved so she doesn't have to backtrack when it doesn't in two years, and to show she is serious to her party.
 

Kathian

Banned
It's smoke to hide from Brexiters that she is also bringing EU into UK law. Which I think is more than just about saving time - it's about single market access.
 

Joni

Member
It's smoke to hide from Brexiters that she is also bringing EU into UK law. Which I think is more than just about saving time - it's about single market access.
To achieve that she would still need to approve every new eu legislation.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Crab, aren't you a lawyer? Couldn't you apply for a job to help your government? Just a curiosity that's all.

No, I studied economics and I do consultancy now. The civil service doesn't appeal to me very much, but I work with them indirectly.
 

Tak3n

Banned
it is like Neo-Gaf and the British press are are total odds, could not be further apart is their cynicism

_91487581_sunday-times.jpg


_91487579_sunday-express.jpg
 

jufonuk

not tag worthy
It's smoke to hide from Brexiters that she is also bringing EU into UK law. Which I think is more than just about saving time - it's about single market access.
Operation zigzag levels of miss direction.

Had a thought should we actually succeed in trading outside EU and bringing money our way wouldn't the EU benefit from taking a bite of the cherry with the UK acting as a go between ?
We just go from a long standing partner to a more associate but still brings work to the firm kind of role.

it is like Neo-Gaf and the British press are are total odds, could not be further apart is their cynicism

Until who ever is in charge says it begins now .then I will believe it.
 

sohois

Member
The papers that supported Brexit are obviously going to be glad when news of brexit processes is release. Only the tabloids would boldly celebrate brexit on the front page, and only the Mirror/Sunday Mirror were for remain.

You could go and read the editorials of the Guardian/Observer, the Times or the Financial Times if you wanted to observe a lot more distress at the news.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
I'm sure Germans and French people will vote the parties with the best gifts for the UK.

Yeah...

iP42wHz.gif


Go for it Europe, fuck us up,
and help build the case for Scottish independence
Lord knows half our country is stupid enough to deserve it.
You thought the EU was unfair before? Just wait.
 
The joke would be that the media wouldn't even need to do anything crazy just showing what the UK did for EU and the futher European (and German unification) since Thatcher.
 

Alx

Member
Brexit negotiations during german and french elections sure is going to be interesting

I wonder if it will matter much, at least for French elections. First round is late April, so potentially one month after article 50. I imagine they won't have time to go that far into negotiations by then.
 

Joni

Member
I wonder if it will matter much, at least for French elections. First round is late April, so potentially one month after article 50. I imagine they won't have time to go that far into negotiations by then.
It could elect some very hard people to negotiate with. Sarkozy for instance who would be eager to position himself as European leader again after Hollande lost acclaim versus Merkel
 

kmag

Member
Bernard Jenkins flight of nonsense in the Guardian this morning is typical of the lack of knowledge the leading lights of Brexit have about the subject.

Basically Jenkins big plan is to unilaterally just leave and dare the EU to do something about it.

We need to be aware that Article 50, as intended, could tie us up in knots. Nobody can guarantee that there will be an acceptable agreement at the end of the process anyway. So we must be prepared to leave without any formal agreement if necessary, or the commission has us over a barrel. Leaving without a formal withdrawal agreement would be messy, but a messy Brexit is what many have suggested that the commission and much of the EU would like. Still, a speedy and decisive resolution would be far more acceptable to business than years and years of uncertainty and then a “fudge”, as confirmed by Markus Kerber, head of the BDI, the federation of German industries.

Without a formal agreement, most things, like security cooperation, would carry on anyway because they have to. Complicated things like patent and data law could be quickly sorted out afterwards. Of course, the big threat is loss of access to the single market, but the UK could start by making it clear we are offering zero tariffs for EU imports, and an open UK market for EU services as now, and that we would implement this unilaterally pro tem in the absence of a withdrawal agreement. What would the EU do? Would they really want to slap on their own tariffs and protectionism anyway?

There are two other factors that will drive the UK and the EU towards a quick free trade deal, pre- or post-Brexit. We often pointed out that the UK imports £70bn more from the EU than we export to them, and Remainers always talked down this strength in the UK position. True, while 44% of our exports go to the EU, only 8% of EU exports come to us. But as thinktank Civitas explains, protectionism would threaten a far bigger share of jobs in the other EU states than in the UK. UK exports to Germany are estimated to support 752,000 jobs, or 2.4% of UK jobs, but 1.3 million German jobs depend upon their exports to the UK, which is 3.2%. This pattern is repeated across the entire EU. UK exports to France support 1.7% of our jobs, but theirs to the UK support 2.4% of jobs in the France; to Italy, it is 0.9% vs 1.7%; for Belgium, it is 0.8% vs 7.8%; and for Ireland it is 1.4% vs 9.5%. Which countries would rationally support anything but free trade?

Ignoring his terribly transparent misuse of the Civitas report, there's a bit bit of an issue with his plan, namely the EU is a WTO member. Unless you have a signed RTA (Regional Trade Agreement) between the UK and the EU submitted with the WTO, then EU HAS to put it's common tariff on any import from the UK under the WTO Most Favoured Nation clause.

The EU and the EEA agreements in trade terms are just RTA's lodged with the WTO (http://rtais.wto.org/UI/PublicShowMemberRTAIDCard.aspx?rtaid=120)

Similarly, if the UK just unilaterally put zero tariffs on imports from the EU sans an RTA they'd have to do it for everyone else in the world. At which point they'd have no leverage to seek actual formalised trade deals with anyone. You may as well can Liam Fox and his department because it would have shit all to do as you've given the house away.

Sadly this jingoistic English exceptionalism (and sorry folks it is English exceptionalism you don't see the same spiel from the other nations) is the default mode for our glorious leaders.
 

Plum

Member
It could elect some very hard people to negotiate with. Sarkozy for instance

Who cares? Britain has the best negotiators and the best plans. We'll be fine!

Nah but seriously it's like the government is deliberately making this a lot harder than it needs to be. It's ridiculous what they're doing.
 

chadskin

Member
I wonder if it will matter much, at least for French elections. First round is late April, so potentially one month after article 50. I imagine they won't have time to go that far into negotiations by then.

If the UK opts for a hard Brexit, I presume there's not a ton to discuss between the UK and the EU anyhow.

Some of the issues that'll come up in the discussions:
Britain is planning to claim a share of the EU’s 42,000-bottle cellar of wine, cognac and other spirits, its art collection and its €8.7bn property portfolio as the government gears up to haggle over Brexit with Brussels.
The ratio for divvying up the value of assets with Britain is likely to be highly contentious. But on the basis that Britain makes around an eighth of net EU budget contributions, its claim would cover roughly 5,000 bottles of wine, 250 bottles of spirits, €2.25m worth of art from the European Parliament’s collection, and around €10m from the book value of the European Court of Justice building.
https://www.ft.com/content/bb899c94-8715-11e6-a75a-0c4dce033ade
 
Torygraph and Murdoch owned press. Why am I not surprised.

The Express isn't owned by Murdoch. It's owned by walking ego pornographer Richard Desmond, thus the Express's shrill moral whining in the service of xenophobic pseudo traditional bullshit is somewhat ironic.

It's an absolute clusterfuck of a paper, and shouldn't be read by anyone with a brain, of any political persuasion.
 
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