RedSparrows
Member
I look forward to complaints of nations asserting their views and thus stymying Brexiters who wanted to leave so they could assert their views.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
- Thread starter Hasney
- Start date
- Status
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Only 24 languages have been registered - meaning four countries either haven't nominated or already nominated an existing language. I would presume Belgium is one of those with no nomination.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
The EU requiring unanimous approval is a nightmare.
It's going to be a hard, hard Brexit since no unanimously agreed to trade deal will be possible. The most likely ally in negotiations might be Germany, but they strongely believe in the "four freedoms" like the rest of the EU and want their baby (the EU) to survive.
There'll be no trade deal that can work when every country (and parts of countries in the case of the Belgian federation system) has their own veto. There'll also be no trade deal because of the lack of freedom of movement.
The currrent situation in Scotland was avoidable by not giving the Nationalists ammo like this. Additionally, by leaving the single market, checks seem an inevitably on the Irish border, something that nobody in Northern Ireland wants.
Even more bizarre, any border with an independent Scotland joining the EU would have to be a hard one with a different currency if it joins the EU eventually (assuming Spain doesn't block it which is a big if). Scottish nationalists were fans of having their cake and eating it too long before Brexit, ignoring rUK about a host of issues and Spanish warnings about the EU, for some reason believing the Spanish bark was worse than their bite, or that Scotland could unilaterally not have a hard border upon exiting the UK (and thus the British Isles CTA) without a plan...
But since this is happening, it's going to be a messy, messy EU divorce, and may lead to an even messier one in Scotland as well as lots of upset and alienated Loyalists and Nationalists alike in Northern Ireland. It is quite ironic that nationalism and patriotism caused this.
It's going to be a hard, hard Brexit since no unanimously agreed to trade deal will be possible. The most likely ally in negotiations might be Germany, but they strongely believe in the "four freedoms" like the rest of the EU and want their baby (the EU) to survive.
There'll be no trade deal that can work when every country (and parts of countries in the case of the Belgian federation system) has their own veto. There'll also be no trade deal because of the lack of freedom of movement.
The currrent situation in Scotland was avoidable by not giving the Nationalists ammo like this. Additionally, by leaving the single market, checks seem an inevitably on the Irish border, something that nobody in Northern Ireland wants.
Even more bizarre, any border with an independent Scotland joining the EU would have to be a hard one with a different currency if it joins the EU eventually (assuming Spain doesn't block it which is a big if). Scottish nationalists were fans of having their cake and eating it too long before Brexit, ignoring rUK about a host of issues and Spanish warnings about the EU, for some reason believing the Spanish bark was worse than their bite, or that Scotland could unilaterally not have a hard border upon exiting the UK (and thus the British Isles CTA) without a plan...
But since this is happening, it's going to be a messy, messy EU divorce, and may lead to an even messier one in Scotland as well as lots of upset and alienated Loyalists and Nationalists alike in Northern Ireland. It is quite ironic that nationalism and patriotism caused this.
It is a nice proof for Scotland that they should join Belgium and have equal power as any other country part.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Well, Belgium operates in a federal system (like Canada or the US) instead of a unitary system like the UK. Most federal systems don't require unanimous support, but Belgium is a small country. I suspect a UK system would be the agreement of 3/4 constituent countries for constitutional change, for example.
This map isn't terribly accurate, and Spain being unitary when it offers more autonomy than most federal states is questionable, but here's a map. It's hard to see but Belgium is in green like Germany:
A drastic restructuring of the UK akin to that might be necessary for its survival. England and Wales are quite obviously content with the system, as is the majority in Northern Ireland, but I think a more federal system could work wonders for Scotland and prevent a second referendum vote.
Giving Scotland an absolute veto ala Wallonia wouldn't make sense in a large country though. England has the lion's share of the UK population, it's not like Belgium. I know it'd be popular here (on NeoGAF), but the reality is that wouldn't be democratic in the slightest.
However, considering that the EU was the key promise (and it was a truthful one, Scotland would have been forced out and possibly kept out indefinitely), Scottish voters really should have had a veto in this (meaning the EU) referendum. I know it was an advisory vote, but it should have been stipulated that the vote would be ignored if it didn't have a 50 percent plus 1 vote in Scotland as well, considering the 2014 promises. It really is an embarrassing situation. I can certainly accept a hard Brexit as the will of the people, but I can understand why Scottish voters can't, especially after 2014 promises. I'm not saying this should be the norm is a federal system, but given the economic difficulties, it is clear that Brexit will be divisive. Majority support across the UK would have been a much easier hard Brexit scenario.
But this is all for future discussion really. Right now Brexit looms large.
Perhaps nothing has to change.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
A hard brexit would fucking piss me off. I would be livid.
That is why it should join Belgium, where it would be about the same size as the other area's and it would still be in the European Union. We are also used to multiple languages, so adding English to the mix is easy. It would solve so many problems.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Ah, I didn't know you were Belgian. That just wouldn't work, given distance, lack of association with Belgium, and the Scottish nationalists being nationalists above all else, I doubt they would surrender foreign affairs to Belgium, for example.
That would never be considered.
The British Isles, or (Atlantic Archipelago as some Irish people prefer) have a shared history and culture that just isn't tied to the Belgian state.
I think you would transcend anger at that point and become some sort of being composed of pure rage
Lets say you live in a country that is experts in the production of rubber dog shit.
World wide demand for rubber dog shit is currently high due to dog shit shortage you'd love to sell your rubber dog shit to the markets in high demand but you can't because a country 400 miles away is worried about its tomatoes and stuff.
In some cases it's not a country worried about tomatoes but a little bit of a country worried about nothing that stops you selling loads of shit.
So, in order to survive your country slowly diversifies to lettuce production and slowly stops selling shit so to not piss off the tomatoe guys. After 20-30 years of this your country has forgotten how good its shit was and is solely focused on lettuce to the point lettuce is the norm and large swathes of the country think we can't do anything else.
The question is does not having tariffs on lettuce to a single continent outweigh shit sales to a worldwide market?
We're about to find out.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
May doesn't want to budge because she has already made promises, and the EU will not budge either. Germany or France were the most likely allies but they don't want to see their baby fall apart, so they're talking tough. Additionally, nothing can be worked out when every country has a veto. That is unworkable, some countries are probably salty about the sweetheart deal that we already had.
I repeat, an agreement with the entire EU's consent is unworkable. Unanimous support for anything in this negotiation just isn't going to happen, and no amount of delicious British shortbread will prevent that.
Ignoring immigration, this will likely be a hard exit just because one of the Eastern European countries will probably decide that the UK must join Schengen for any reasonable trade deal (despite Switzerland being outside) just for shits and giggles, and veto any deal. I can see it now.
It will have to be a messy exit.
I repeat, an agreement with the entire EU's consent is unworkable. Unanimous support for anything in this negotiation just isn't going to happen, and no amount of delicious British shortbread will prevent that.
Ignoring immigration, this will likely be a hard exit just because one of the Eastern European countries will probably decide that the UK must join Schengen for any reasonable trade deal (despite Switzerland being outside) just for shits and giggles, and veto any deal. I can see it now.
It will have to be a messy exit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/22/leading-banks-set-to-pull-out-of-brexit-uk
But I'm sure it's worth the suffering, right?
German is more common in the EU than French, too.
But I'm sure it's worth the suffering, right?
German is more common in the EU than French, too.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
It seems like the EU can never win in the eyes of those who are fundamentally ideologically opposed to it (let's get real here, it has significant flaws which need to be improved, regardless of my overall thoughts that the good outweighs the bad here).
Either it is an undemocratic behemoth trampling over the member states and forcing its policies on them or it allows too much member state sovereignty and makes it too hard to do deals with it. There's definitely still a will to sign CETA on both sides, and they're trying to find an appropriate solution to deal with the last minute objections made by Wallonia. All EU governments including the Belgian federal government are ready and willing to sign it now, Wallonia is pretty much the last stumbling block.
It seems the solution to this kind of problem is more integration and more EU for a more effective bloc which can be a trade power in the world. The UK seems to be the last member state that is opposed to more integration, so I expect the EU to go full steam ahead with their plans (because the rest of Europe is much more positive towards the idea of a more powerful EU).
Either it is an undemocratic behemoth trampling over the member states and forcing its policies on them or it allows too much member state sovereignty and makes it too hard to do deals with it. There's definitely still a will to sign CETA on both sides, and they're trying to find an appropriate solution to deal with the last minute objections made by Wallonia. All EU governments including the Belgian federal government are ready and willing to sign it now, Wallonia is pretty much the last stumbling block.
It seems the solution to this kind of problem is more integration and more EU for a more effective bloc which can be a trade power in the world. The UK seems to be the last member state that is opposed to more integration, so I expect the EU to go full steam ahead with their plans (because the rest of Europe is much more positive towards the idea of a more powerful EU).
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I'm more sceptical of that trade deal getting done.
Yes, it will only hurt even more to make a hard exit in 10 years. It's clear that there's a huge difference in culture that did the arrangement in for a narrow majority of the populace. There will never have been a better sweetheart deal on the table by the EU for any nation, ever, than the UK's concessions, including a permanent out from further integration, but that's that.
Anyways, some foolish pro-Brexiters who actually think the EU will give a reasonable trade deal are about to receive a dose of reality, so at least there's that to look forward to, right Royal_Phalanx?
Audioboxer
Member
I've said a few times, it's cool bros. I have a spare bed and a couch that can fold down. Ye can all come live with me up North. Until we vote against independence and have to go through with a hard Brexit, in which case I'm going to go live in Canada or something lol.
It's almost a crime as bad as Brexit you don't have a Scottish accent Dougald. We need to change that.
I drink Irn Bru and can just about understand Oor Wullie, all I need to do is change my speech and I'll pass a citizenship test no problem
Audioboxer
Member
Last time I checked the citizenship test was to watch the beloved and recently passed Robin Williams explain golf and be able to chuckle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcnFbCCgTo4
JonnyDBrit
Member
...So the reasoning here is we'll try to convince businesses to move out of the EU for the sake of a cheaper corporation tax?
Wouldn't that tax rate sink the UK's tax income though?
Not happening, the electorate would have their ass on a silver platter.
Not happening, the electorate would have their ass on a silver platter.
QuicheFontaine
Member
No, Switzerland is in the Schengen area.
bu bu bu laffer curve!!!!
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I like this guy's idea. Ever thought of becoming a politician?
Orniletter
Banned
Let them eat shortbread !
Also more mandatory whippings, to improve morale.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Kinda odd to be unhappy with Brexit and then move to Canada, a country with stricter visa requirements than EU ones (EU countries really need workers). Looked up the requirements and you have to have enough points and get randomly picked for permanent residence for Canada. Considering they elected Stephen Harper for 10 years I don't think they're more progressive than the UK. Would do anything to have Justin Trudeau be my PM rather than Theresa May though. I'm lucky to have my career options giving me the option to be eligible for living in Canada given more experience though. Maybe I should think about going there too, but I want any future family of my own to enjoy the benefits of an EU passport.
I did but I only fuck live pigs. Dead ones just don't do it for me.
Frankfurter
Member
Was not accurate = every single word was BS
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
It should be law that corrections must be made in the equivalent position of the publication. So if they lie in a cover story, the correction must be there. It is absurd not to be this way
Position and size as well. It's the only way to curb outright lying that damages the country.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Oops. You're right.
I was thinking of the Customs Union, but that's irrelevant to the whole issue (since it'd be ideal to stay in the common market), so I'll leave that at that. The whole thing obviously comes as a single package though, so I don't think it will work out.
I could definitely see some bitter country demanding the UK join Schengen for any deal in the event of a soft Brexit. I really don't see how negotiations will work and I don't think they will.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Customs_Union
There's nothing wrong with having visa requirements. I know Canadians, and they're not interested in anything like the European project. No political party supports anything like it with the United States or Mexico either, despite close ties.
Since you believe so strongly in the European project, I would recommend you move to the Republic of Ireland, an English-speaking country that will remain in the EU.
DarthMasta
Member
If the whole thing remains in the real of economics, a decent deal might be worked out, even taking into account that in the current situation in the EU many mainstream politicians would gain from making Brexit as tough as possible as a vaccine for fringe "Brexit" like movements at home.
OTOH, if some countries for some miracle
get into their heads that Brexit was because the British don't exactly like Eastern Europeans and you might start getting politicians actually gain votes from sticking it to Britain, a sort of UKIP in reverse in some Eastern European country.Royal_Phalanx
Member
I'm pretty neutral on the European project, though I wouldn't particularly care if it ended up happening and the EU became more united as a bloc. I would rather pick Europe because of it's closeness to family and people I know, not a "I absolutely love the EU" thing, since as I said before it has its significant flaws (takes like a 2 hour flight to be able to come and visit pretty easily). Maybe the UK might as well leave given the cultural incompatibility with the rest of Europe due to being an island (hell, maybe my values are incompatible with most of England and Wales so it might well be best if I packed up and moved to another country). The ideal situation economically would be to stay in the single market, which, if the government caves in on free movement is a pretty straightforward deal to make (not likely).
I'm willing to learn another language, etc, and I could soon be employed by a company which does offer international transfers if the assessment phase goes well, so I'm more worried about the effect that the next incoming global recession will have when it comes to moving to Europe than actually getting a visa (getting a visa is a barrier that can be overcome by hard work). Loss of job+no free movement=going back.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Microsoft to raise enterprise prices in UK up to 22% after pound plunges
So many companies are at least 22% happier about all the control they took back.
Now imagine the price hikes with less competition from mainland Europe after a hard Brexit in almost every field.
jimbobsmells
Member
Love how MS calls it 'realignment'.
Can't wait for next summer to come around, when we really start to see shit hit the fan with regards to consumer pricing. /s
Edit: I've already prepared my butt for the ludicrous price increase that the new MacBook Pro machines will likely include.
Can't wait for next summer to come around, when we really start to see shit hit the fan with regards to consumer pricing. /s
Edit: I've already prepared my butt for the ludicrous price increase that the new MacBook Pro machines will likely include.
Well to be fair they've been ripping off the UK for decades, it's not like they would be in any rush to change it back if the pound turned around, not that it will though. Where was the great prices when the pound was amazing against the dollar, oh that's right. I understand the exchange rate but if you're taking the piss to begin with, I won't be on your side with raises like this.
:lol
This stuff makes me livid. This is the nonsense that shapes public opinion and it's even admitted by them to be utter utter shite, but tucked away so no one ever see.
This has to be made illegal. Corrections forced to be made same page, same size etc. I'd actually force ALL corrections should be forced to take up the FULL front page, including no advertising. That would get our papers to become beacons of truth in a matter of days.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm a huge proponent of forcing corrections to fill the same amount of space as the originally botched article if it was bad enough.
Stead Fast
Banned
Agreed, but with regards to the Sun, they'd have to issue both morning and evening editions, the evening to apologise for the libel they printed in the morning edition.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Why do may and our media insist on repeatedly antagonising the EU?
We should be like
, but no, she/they have to keep making the situation seem worse. She has to be doing it deliberately...
We should be like
, but no, she/they have to keep making the situation seem worse. She has to be doing it deliberately...
JonnyDBrit
Member
Why do may and our media insist on repeatedly antagonising the EU?
We should be like
, but no, she/they have to keep making the situation seem worse. She has to be doing it deliberately...
Its basic domestic political play. A lot of people see themselves as ragtag rebels fighting a continental empire, and appealing to that is likely to shore up support for both May and her policies, however much they may come back to bite us.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
May holding Brexit talks with devolved nations http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37747995
My stance we all talking big The UK and EU a deal will be reached.
I refuse to believe May is blindly going to Brexit.
Slowly a lot of the 52% are getting the fear.
My stance we all talking big The UK and EU a deal will be reached.
I refuse to believe May is blindly going to Brexit.
Slowly a lot of the 52% are getting the fear.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked