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[oti]

It only requires one member to veto. Anyway of course the EU can't recognise the Scotland as independent from the UK before they officially secede.

Sure. The road to independence is a long and rocky one. And Spain can be reasoned with. I'm sure about that.

 

[Camoxide]

I'm wondering, if Scotland did have another referendum, what would the argument be for the "NO" side and more importantly would anyone believe them this time.

The yes side has two ways they can spin it: 1. The disconnect between the way Scotland votes compared to England (since every region voted Remain majority up here) which has been made even more evident than it was before after the EU Ref results and of course 2. The Scottish gov will try and get us back into the EU once Independent.

Those 2 might be enough to push the Yes vote to victory should another referendum happens.

I see no Win for anyone in the near future in any case.

Going to be an interesting second half of the year I think.

I just hope I don't see any violent/racist outbursts when going down to Birmingham for EGX. Hopefully people will have somewhat calmed down by then.

Having to adopt the Euro is probably enough for the No camp to win.

 

[PdotMichael]

But that has multiple effects - it can actually leads to increased growth after the initial pains of integrating, in much the same way the post-Soviet states in the East saw high levels of growth when they first started openly utilising capitalist economic models.

Obviously Norway had something of a helping hand, too...

Those countries didn't have access to West German social systems etc..

 

[2MF]

Having to adopt the Euro is probably enough for the No camp to win.

Yeah... faith in the EU among Europeans can be described as shaky in some cases for the last 5-10 years. But faith in the Euro is worse than shaky, with good reason.

 

[Steve.1981]

Mariano Rajoy made it quite clear that Scotland would get no special treatment when the UK leaves the EU.

Yeah, nobody would expect him to say anything else. It's a little bit annoying but you can understand why he does it.

Alex Salmond made an interesting point though, when Jeremy Vine asked him about this today. He said Scotland leaving the UK and becoming an independent member of the EU doesn't set any precedent for the situation in Spain, because Spain hasn't voted (and isn't going to vote) to leave the EU.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Sure. The road to independence is a long and rocky one. And Spain can be reasoned with. I'm sure about that.

Me too, I think it just looks likely that Scotland will have to reapply once it gains its independence.

 

[Faddy]

Having to adopt the Euro is probably enough for the No camp to win.

With the way the £ has tanked I don't think it is that big an issue now.

Floating a Scottish £ seems like the preferred option of financiers so there is still a conflict even if we vote for Independence.

 

[FreedomFighter]

I find it ironic that Victoria Nuland says "fuck the EU" and now the Brits say the same lol.

Honestly, I didn't really buy into the entire "racist/xenophobia" anthem that was being pushed in the media. I know that was a big part of the vote, but I think people had some real grievances with the EU. Chief among those grievances, from what I'm being told from two of my friends in England (one lives in London, the other in Manchester) is that many people in the UK perceive the EU as a massively inflexible political machine, controlled by mostly unelected and unaccountable EU bureaucrats.

I see this myself when it comes to how the EU behaves with referendum results it does not like, which Nigel Farage, as much as I don't like the guy (or UKIP), pointed out.

So I'm kinda split on this. Not that my opinion matters, because I'm not British.

At the same time, I think the vote should be respected and Article 50 should be invoked sooner rather than later. Have to respect the democratic process even if we don't like the result.

 

[Best]

Respect the democratic process of outright falsehoods, misdirection and xenophobia .

 

[TatteredHat]

I see this myself when it comes to how the EU behaves with referendum results it does not like, which Nigel Farage, as much as I don't like the guy (or UKIP), pointed out.

Which part of their reaction are you talking about, specifically?

 

[jufonuk]

Racists and racist tendencies in otherwise decent people have been emboldened.

He says anything to my wife or kids I won't be silent .

 

[Stuart444]

With the way the £ has tanked I don't think it is that big an issue now.

Even more so if the pound tanks even more when article 50 is triggered.

And once it's triggered, it will probably be much harder for markets to to recover in general. The recovery so far is based off the fact that nothing has happened yet.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

27% of Britons say the UK should try to reverse the referendum decision and stay in the EU.
(via YouGov)

Not really much of a basis for the Lib Dems to rebuild on this.

Says here for a poll 7% regret leave and 4% regret remain:

And the 7 percent of the “Leave” voters who said they regret their vote in an online survey is the equivalent of 1.2 million people, not 1.1 million. (Additionally, 4 percent of those who voted to remain also said they regret it, the equivalent of 600,000 people.)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-donald-trump-loves-about-the-brexit/

 

[Mr Git]

chris great as usual

 

[Breakage]

I feel like it's going to be an exodus, especially those under 30 with degree and geographic mobility. Possibly in the long term the population of the U.K. will trend downward. The good part is that this will impoverish the leave voting golden oldies by sinking their pensions.

I can see that happening. I also think the damage Brexit has done to social cohesion will linger on for years and will only get worse as Leavers become affected by Brexit related austerity measures and job losses. The genie is out of the bottle. That's another thing that concerns me as a non-English person. Racist Leavers will continue to take out their frustrations and place blame upon anyone who looks foreign.

 

[Faddy]

Me too, I think it just looks likely that Scotland will have to reapply once it gains its independence.

I'm sure the preference of Nicola Sturgeon is for Independence to be secured before the article 50 process is concluded and have Scotland accepted into the EU as part of the deal the Rest of the UK secures.

The only concession that Scotland would ask for is to be outside Schegen, basically the same deal Ireland has right now, so a British Isles Common Travel Area can be negotiated.

 

[Helensmith]

I actually emailed my MP recently on the state of Southern Rail, he did respond and is obviously quite upset himself (probably getting death threats about it knowing the UK!). Even more surprisingly he actually brought it up in PMQ today.

Oh I feel your pain, Southern Rail is the shits.

 

[Easy_D]

"...The details can be worked out later on"​

- the Leave campaign's strategy in a nutshell.



He doesn't even try to hide the fact the media, and therefore so much of the government, is entirely under his control, and yet people still lap it up.

Forget the EU, can we please get rid of the Australian running the country please.

He's 85, I don't think we'll have to put up with him much longer.

 

[mrklaw]

I find it ironic that Victoria Nuland says "fuck the EU" and now the Brits say the same lol.

Honestly, I didn't really buy into the entire "racist/xenophobia" anthem that was being pushed in the media. I know that was a big part of the vote, but I think people had some real grievances with the EU. Chief among those grievances, from what I'm being told from two of my friends in England (one lives in London, the other in Manchester) is that many people in the UK perceive the EU as a massively inflexible political machine, controlled by mostly unelected and unaccountable EU bureaucrats.

I see this myself when it comes to how the EU behaves with referendum results it does not like, which Nigel Farage, as much as I don't like the guy (or UKIP), pointed out.

So I'm kinda split on this. Not that my opinion matters, because I'm not British.

At the same time, I think the vote should be respected and Article 50 should be invoked sooner rather than later. Have to respect the democratic process even if we don't like the result.

Well that might be partly true, but it is also an illustration of the generation-long hatchet job done on the EU by the right wing press and politicians

 

[Ruddles72]

I mean are Remainers really going to say "that's life, just have roll with it"?. I feel like I'm done with living in England. I have no plan on how to get out, but in recent days I've developed a strong urge to find a way out and disassociate myself with Britain. The racist incidents that emerged as a result of Brexit have made me feel ashamed to be a British citizen. Has anyone else felt like that post-Brexit?

I'm with you on this, I feel ashamed to be British in a way I've never felt before. Part of me does also accept some responsibility - I'm university educated, got a good life, clearly with hindsight I was living in my complacent liberal bubble, and even though I don't like them, I'm not sure I can "blame" ill-informed Leavers for voting the way they did. They literally didn't know any better.

That said, I'm on solid ground when I say that I am ashamed of our political classes, on the left and right equally. I'm amazed BoJo and Gove aren't getting more of a kicking tbh for being completely absent after their "victory". And Corbyn can go to hell in a handcart as well.

 

[Blackthorn]

I feel like it's going to be an exodus, especially those under 30 with degree and geographic mobility. Possibly in the long term the population of the U.K. will trend downward. The good part is that this will impoverish the leave voting golden oldies by sinking their pensions.

I've had my sights outside the UK for a while, because my girlfriend and I have both always wanted to live in another country, but this has definitely given me some urgency. Luckily I've got an Irish passport, which should make things fairly easy within the EU no matter what.

 

[2MF]

People are still talking about the leave campaign... it doesn't exist anymore, forget about it. The campaign is over. Cameron himself said exactly that recently.

The only question now is what Cameron is willing / able to do, and ditto for the next prime minister (whoever that is).

 

[Moosichu]

I find it ironic that Victoria Nuland says "fuck the EU" and now the Brits say the same lol.

Honestly, I didn't really buy into the entire "racist/xenophobia" anthem that was being pushed in the media. I know that was a big part of the vote, but I think people had some real grievances with the EU. Chief among those grievances, from what I'm being told from two of my friends in England (one lives in London, the other in Manchester) is that many people in the UK perceive the EU as a massively inflexible political machine, controlled by mostly unelected and unaccountable EU bureaucrats.

I see this myself when it comes to how the EU behaves with referendum results it does not like, which Nigel Farage, as much as I don't like the guy (or UKIP), pointed out.

So I'm kinda split on this. Not that my opinion matters, because I'm not British.

At the same time, I think the vote should be respected and Article 50 should be invoked sooner rather than later. Have to respect the democratic process even if we don't like the result.

This is based on complete fabrication though. The European Parliament is elected, and the Commission consists of one seat for each member state.

The EU hasn't behaved badly at all? All they are saying is "If you want to trade with us it has to be under EU rules." Which is perfectly reasonable. The rules are there to prevent a race to the bottom, and considering the EU economy is so much larger than the British one, the EU has much more leverage to create a trade deal on its terms then the UK does.

It's not about "revenge" or "spitefulness", it's just a matter of an actor acting in its own interests.

 

[*Splinter]

So in other words, a completely regressive fuck up of a move. The people that voted to Leave really have no idea what they've done. Cameron was utterly reckless in reducing the complexities of being in the EU to a simple yes/no vote. I keep asking myself how anyone in the government thought it would be a good idea to let the "people" decide something of this magnitude.
We had a good deal and now we're going to be worse off and all I've heard from Leave supporters and politicians is "we need to come together and unite", "we need solidarity" and "accept change and move on".

They've opted to send the UK backwards, people are going to suffer economically/socially and we will have less influence in Europe. All this for what? Because 52% want to take Britain back to some nostalgic vision.

Will those that chose to remain in the EU just accept the uncertainity,lower living standards, job losses, increased austerity, loss of opportunity and social fragmentation that will emerge from voting to leave?
I mean are Remainers really going to say "that's life, just have roll with it"?. I feel like I'm done with living in England. I have no plan on how to get out, but in recent days I've developed a strong urge to find a way out and disassociate myself with Britain. The racist incidents that emerged as a result of Brexit have made me feel ashamed to be a British citizen. Has anyone else felt like that post-Brexit?

I felt the same, especially in the immediate aftermath. It's probably very melodramatic to consider leaving the country over it, but...

Having considered the idea, I'm liking it more and more - regardless of whether or not we actually leave the EU. Perhaps I can turn this negative into a (personal) positive.

 

[Best]

I've had my sights outside the UK for a while, because my girlfriend and I have both always wanted to live in another country, but this has definitely given me some urgency. Luckily I've got an Irish passport, which should make things fairly easy within the EU no matter what.

I can see that happening. I also think the damage Brexit has done to social cohesion will linger on for years and will only get worse as Leavers become affected by Brexit related austerity measures and job losses. The genie is out of the bottle. That's another thing that concerns me as a non-English person. Racist Leavers will continue to take out their frustrations and place blame upon anyone who looks foreign.

The plan is to hang onto my job for for 3 years at most to build up some experience and then move abroad and never look back. From talking to my friends that's what everyone is looking to do (recent grads). Hopefully if enough of us do it Britain will be ruined long term.

 

[cormack12]

Chief among those grievances, from what I'm being told from two of my friends in England (one lives in London, the other in Manchester) is that many people in the UK perceive the EU as a massively inflexible political machine, controlled by mostly unelected and unaccountable EU bureaucrats.

The only way the EU touches the lives of most British citizens is for good, and it's usually very indirectly. It's clear that many people don't perceive the EU as anything, they're just fed up with the immigration issue, or more accurately the perception that immigrants are a blight on our society.

Ask your friends to name specifics about their grievances. Because in your post, you've basically said your friends have issues with the EU because many other people perceive it as an inflexible machine.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...r-news/things-eu-done-for-manchester-11020085

That last line (bolded) is basically an Alex Jones/Nigel Farage soundbite. Honestly, the more things I read, the more I'm convinced Brexit was passed round on a shady VHS in council estates and small villlages. Our own prime minister is 'unelected', the point is that power is devolved and multi-layered to prevent this massive authoritarian state that most seem convinced exists.

 

[Tak3n]

so here you guys, all of those who want to leave

The tiny town of Kaitangata on the South Island of New Zealand has a relatively unique problem - too many affordable houses and job opportunities and not enough people to fill them.
Now residents are on a recruitment drive to get people living in the country's more expensive cities to relocate.
About 800 people live in Kaitangata, which is part of the Clutha district.

Kaitangata has teamed up with local businesses to offer things like discounted home-buying legal costs and new job opportunities to entice people to the area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...-jobs-and-houses-is-looking-for-new-residents

 

[Helensmith]

Says here for a poll 7% regret leave and 4% regret remain

Why would that many people regret voting remain? Surely the only negative effects are due to leave right now. Is the poll accurate

I think with a second referendum, the leave regretters and more younger people would win. Don't know why the government doesn't hold it to get themselves out of this mess when they don't really want to leave either.

 

[Mii]

In all seriousness, how feasible would it be for the UK to join in on TPP after the fact? Does anyone know if TPP is structured to allow new countries to join the partnership? Is there a back door way for other countries that could have been part of TTIP to join TPP, albeit likely without most of their concerns addressed? Does potentially joining the EEA prevent you from joining TPP? I'm assuming TTIP fails to pass and TPP moves forward.

 

[Best]

When you consider the average Leave voter, it is surprising that 'unelected bureaucrats' stuck as a soundbite with the number of syllables it has.

 

[*Splinter]

I find it ironic that Victoria Nuland says "fuck the EU" and now the Brits say the same lol.

Honestly, I didn't really buy into the entire "racist/xenophobia" anthem that was being pushed in the media. I know that was a big part of the vote, but I think people had some real grievances with the EU. Chief among those grievances, from what I'm being told from two of my friends in England (one lives in London, the other in Manchester) is that many people in the UK perceive the EU as a massively inflexible political machine, controlled by mostly unelected and unaccountable EU bureaucrats.

I see this myself when it comes to how the EU behaves with referendum results it does not like, which Nigel Farage, as much as I don't like the guy (or UKIP), pointed out.

So I'm kinda split on this. Not that my opinion matters, because I'm not British.

At the same time, I think the vote should be respected and Article 50 should be invoked sooner rather than later. Have to respect the democratic process even if we don't like the result.

It's nice to think things

 

[gngf123]

Probably as much use as farting into your ethernet cable, but someone made a site for emailing your MP. There's a pre-written message, but you can edit it to something more personal (I did).

http://www.breentry.co.uk/

For what it's worth, I wrote a long email to my MP earlier explaining a lot of things. Just about everything from the lack of funding that I'm about to face due to us leaving, to companies leaving the country, to the rise in abuse and the fact that I now don't feel that my partner and I are entirely safe in this country.

I got an email back just a little while ago:

Got it thanks

At least it's much better than this:

 

[Tak3n]

Why would that many people regret voting remain? Surely the only negative effects are due to leave right now. Is the poll accurate

I think with a second referendum, the leave regretters and younger people engaged to vote would win. Don't know why the government doesn't hold it to get themselves out of this mess when they don't really want to leave either.

I agree, whilst it would also get the leave voters to also mobilise, the young people would turn over the vote easily

 

[Tak3n]

For what it's worth, I wrote a long email to my MP earlier explaining a lot of things. Just about everything from the lack of funding that I'm about to face due to us leaving, to companies leaving the country, to the rise in abuse and the fact that I now don't feel that my partner and I are entirely safe in this country.

I got an email back just a little while ago:



At least it's much better than this:

is that true from that MP, most MP's are understanding to a fault with their constituent

 

[PdotMichael]

For what it's worth, I wrote a long email to my MP earlier explaining a lot of things. Just about everything from the lack of funding that I'm about to face due to us leaving, to companies leaving the country, to the rise in abuse and the fact that I now don't feel that my partner and I are entirely safe in this country.

I got an email back just a little while ago:



At least it's much better than this:

Is that a British thing or I'm really supposed to stop having an opinion and lose my right of freedom of speech after a decision was made (or not) in whatever way?

 

[Bold One]

Still wake up everyday in hope that parliament has struck down this suicidal Leave vote.

 

[Goodlife]

I felt the same, especially in the immediate aftermath. It's probably very melodramatic to consider leaving the country over it, but...

Having considered the idea, I'm liking it more and more - regardless of whether or not we actually leave the EU. Perhaps I can turn this negative into a (personal) positive.

Yeah, I'm kind of the same, my problem is that I've got 3 young kids and (quickly getting) elderly parents close by.
Think it's just going to be too much hassle to move anywhere and I honestly don't know where I'd go

 

[gngf123]

is that true from that MP, most MP's are understanding to a fault with their constituent

Which one? Mine or Philip Davies? They are both true, and Davies has a bit of a history of being a very strongly opinionated prick.

I didn't name my MP because I generally respect him a lot, he has done a lot of good work for us. I was just a little surprised.

 

[El Topo]

Any comparison with Germany in that timeframe is flawed because how many other countries were integrating a poor and broken country.

True.

 

[NekoFever]

I agree, whilst it would also get the leave voters to also mobilise, the young people would turn over the vote easily

You could also expand the vote to 16/17-year-olds, as in the Scottish independence referendum. We've seen the 'old screwing the young' narrative in the last few days.

 

[Almighty]

Everything is sorted, Britain's role in the world...

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/29/opinions/make-the-uk-the-51st-state/index.html

Made me laugh.

Part of me wishes I lived in a world where something this crazy happens.

 

[Breakage]

I
That said, I'm on solid ground when I say that I am ashamed of our political classes, on the left and right equally. I'm amazed BoJo and Gove aren't getting more of a kicking tbh for being completely absent after their "victory". And Corbyn can go to hell in a handcart as well.

Yeah, it's remarkable that no one has torn Farage, Johnson and Gove apart. These guys lead a shameful, dishonest campaign to sink the UK and everyone's so relaxed about it. Johnson and Gove are even being talked up to be the next PM.
How does that even work? These guys have encouraged 17 million people to regress the UK and made us look like a basket case nation in the process.
And almost everyone in the media seems to be incredibly relaxed about that. Cameron seems to have escaped too despite recklessly giving people the opportunity to ignite the fire. I feel uncomfortable living in a country where such extreme incompetence at government level goes unchallenged.
As a result of Brexit, the UK now looks like a racist, wannabe-isolationist nation full of crazy people who voted to destroy it thru an unprecedented act of self-sabotage.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

It's nice to think things

Where is the image showing what factors mattered to remain voters?

Now,compare both of them and you will find that the leave camp diagram appears to be centred around intangible factors that don't really mean anything 'control', 'country'(marketing words basically). Whereas the remain diagram is about factual things (economy, worker rights, employment) etc.

It's easy to see who here was selling a non-existent product.

 

[Chinese Cartoons]

Where is the image showing what factors mattered to remain voters?

Now,compare both of them and you will find that the leave camp diagram appears to be centred around intangible factors that don't really mean anything 'control', 'country'(marketing words basically). Whereas the remain diagram is about factual things (economy, worker rights, employment) etc.

It's easy to see who here was selling a non-existent product.

 

[Breakage]

The plan is to hang onto my job for for 3 years at most to build up some experience and then move abroad and never look back. From talking to my friends that's what everyone is looking to do (recent grads). Hopefully if enough of us do it Britain will be ruined long term.

Are you (and your friends) still planning to stay in Europe?

 

[jelly]

Don't worry about EU nationals in the UK, they can be used as leverage according to UKIP

https://mobile.twitter.com/Random_Bod/status/748218299704614912/photo/1

 

[*Splinter]

Yeah, it's remarkable that no one has torn Farage, Johnson and Gove apart. These guys lead a shameful, dishonest campaign to sink the UK and everyone's so relaxed about it. Johnson and Gove are even being talked up to be the next PM.
How does that even work? These guys have encouraged 17 million people to regress the UK and made us look like a basket case nation in the process.
And almost everyone in the media seems to be incredibly relaxed about that. Cameron seems to have escaped too despite recklessly giving people the opportunity to ignite the fire. I feel uncomfortable living in a country where such extreme incompetence at government level goes unchallenged.
As a result of Brexit, the UK now looks like a racist, wannabe-isolationist nation full of crazy people who voted to destroy it thru an unprecedented act of self-sabotage.

I don't understand his either. So far they've taken money from the rich without consequence - where is the corruption when you need it?

 

[GamerMax73]

.

Welcome to Thatcher's legacy.

 

[gngf123]

Oh, and then there's this message from my cousin:

Homophobic chants outside my friend's flat in London, another telling me of a Polish friend subjected to discrimination in the last few days and now afraid to go outside. Hearing another say the first thing she heard in London off a train was 'Britain First'. The shit abuse I got on Thursday. Projects halted at work costing hundreds of thousands.

Incidents like this are getting more common, and fuck anyone who sits there pretending it's all normal and fine while burying their heads in the sand.

 

[Bobnob]

Shit . Was walking outside with my daughter . Loud African lady on her phone.

Older Guy opposite fixing his car (Bulldog tattoo on his leg) about fifty -sixty years old

Conversational level I hear him say "shut up "

"Shut up , silly monkey woman"

Then walk inside. Wtf?!?

Wow this guy turned into a outwardly talking racist cunt overnight, Go over there and ask him if hes a iny or outy

EDIT: Did he have a skinhead ?