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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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jufonuk

not tag worthy
Shit . Was walking outside with my daughter . Loud African lady on her phone.

Older Guy opposite fixing his car (Bulldog tattoo on his leg) about fifty -sixty years old

Conversational level I hear him say "shut up "

"Shut up , silly monkey woman"

Then walk inside. Wtf?!?
 

accel

Member
Which hasn't and wont lead to anything because they cant implement it while being part of the single market.

I take it they will implement it and then, if they are expelled from the single market, they will trade with EU like other non-EU countries do.
 

Tak3n

Banned
I don't mean to be as facetious as I may seem but don't worry guys! Apparently Vote Leave have a plan!

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

Someone sent it to me (On Twitter no less) after i moaned about neither side having a plan, painfully obvious post Vinegate
sorry
./...

Not that anyone has the time to read the whole thing but it's not exactly "By Farage, Johnson, Gove, Murdoch"...

apart from any deal being reached with the EU, which TBF I am not sure you could plan for...

The general consensus is all laws will be ported over as is, then once we left they will start going through them... of course sounds easy on paper, when in reality it is not as you will get lobby groups etc trying to get their point in
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Cameron is such an idiot. Only wants to officially declare to leave after the negotiations are done. EU gave him a big FU, negotiations only after declaring to leave and sccess to single market only under the same conditions for everyone else. Wait, that's two big FU's. UK screwed up big time and now EU is just as angry as they were after the Greek referendum.
 
I don't mean to be as facetious as I may seem but don't worry guys! Apparently Vote Leave have a plan!

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

Someone sent it to me (On Twitter no less) after i moaned about neither side having a plan, painfully obvious post Vinegate
sorry
./...

Not that anyone has the time to read the whole thing but it's not exactly "By Farage, Johnson, Gove, Murdoch"...

Flexit?

FFS
 

geomon

Member
Shit . Was walking outside with my daughter . Loud African lady on her phone.

Older Guy opposite fixing his car (Bulldog tattoo on his leg) about fifty -sixty years old

Conversational level I hear him say "shut up "

"Shut up , silly monkey woman"

Then walk inside. Wtf?!?

Racists and racist tendencies in otherwise decent people have been emboldened.
 
Cameron is such an idiot. Only wants to officially declare to leave after the negotiations are done. EU gave him a big FU, negotiations only after declaring to leave and sccess to single market only under the same conditions for everyone else. Wait, that's two big FU's. UK screwed up big time and now EU is just as angry as they were after the Greek referendum.

Eh, he's an idiot for ever suggesting a referendum, and then even worse for letting it go ahead, but if I was somehow in his situation, darn right I'd make it the next PMs problem.

Boris clearly wanted the referendum to happen to be a power play for the PM job, had he and Gove not campaigned for leave, there's a solid chance this massive victory for Farage wouldn't have happened. I'm sure Bj and co would love Cameron to take 100% of the fall when he wasn't 100% of the problem, but fortunately, that isn't going to happen.
 

BahamutPT

Member
Cameron is such an idiot. Only wants to officially declare to leave after the negotiations are done. EU gave him a big FU, negotiations only after declaring to leave and sccess to single market only under the same conditions for everyone else. Wait, that's two big FU's. UK screwed up big time and now EU is just as angry as they were after the Greek referendum.

It's just a big baby tantrum, and the EU is having none of it.
 

Stuart444

Member
I'm wondering, if Scotland did have another referendum, what would the argument be for the "NO" side and more importantly would anyone believe them this time.

The yes side has two ways they can spin it: 1. The disconnect between the way Scotland votes compared to England (since every region voted Remain majority up here) which has been made even more evident than it was before after the EU Ref results and of course 2. The Scottish gov will try and get us back into the EU once Independent.

Those 2 might be enough to push the Yes vote to victory should another referendum happens.

I see no Win for anyone in the near future in any case.

Going to be an interesting second half of the year I think.

I just hope I don't see any violent/racist outbursts when going down to Birmingham for EGX. Hopefully people will have somewhat calmed down by then.
 

ogbg

Member
I'm wondering, if Scotland did have another referendum, what would the argument be for the "NO" side and more importantly would anyone believe them this time.

The yes side has two ways they can spin it: 1. The disconnect between the way Scotland votes compared to England (since every region voted Remain majority up here) which has been made even more evident than it was before after the EU Ref results and of course 2. The Scottish gov will try and get us back into the EU once Independent.

Those 2 might be enough to push the Yes vote to victory should another referendum happens.

I see no Win for anyone in the near future in any case.

Going to be an interesting second half of the year I think.

I just hope I don't see any violent/racist outbursts when going down to Birmingham for EGX. Hopefully people will have somewhat calmed down by then.

The main argument would still be basically the same - about 70% of our trade is with the rest of the UK
 

Meadows

Banned
I'm wondering, if Scotland did have another referendum, what would the argument be for the "NO" side and more importantly would anyone believe them this time.

The yes side has two ways they can spin it: 1. The disconnect between the way Scotland votes compared to England (since every region voted Remain majority up here) which has been made even more evident than it was before after the EU Ref results and of course 2. The Scottish gov will try and get us back into the EU once Independent.

Those 2 might be enough to push the Yes vote to victory should another referendum happens.

I see no Win for anyone in the near future in any case.

Going to be an interesting second half of the year I think.

I just hope I don't see any violent/racist outbursts when going down to Birmingham for EGX. Hopefully people will have somewhat calmed down by then.

I'd imagine the arguments would be:

- Your previous arguments were based on $100+ oil, now it's at $48.

- Scotland gets more from the UK government than it puts in.

- Scotland would have to go through a difficult process to enter the EU.

- What currency would Scotland use?

- Scotland's economy is growing substantially slower than England's and it gets a good deal from attaching itself to England.

---

Note: I don't agree with these arguments necessarily, just what I think the talking points will be.
 

Armaros

Member
Well, 51st state is a bit much, but a free trade agreement with the US wouldn't hurt (and is perhaps expected). Same as a free trade agreement with Canada (which the EU don't have), agreements with China (same), etc, etc, etc.

Issue is that the US will have to renegotioate them because we dont have a modern trade deal with the UK specficilly since they entered the EU.

We just have EU trade deals.

And we dont want to piss off the EU in the process. Especially since the current ones took forever to get through.
 

El Topo

Member
I don't know how you get that Sweden outperformed Switzerland (GDP per capita - Switzerland grew from 40k in 1992 to 85k now, Sweden grew from 32k in 1992 to 60k now) same for it outperforming US.

Those are the values you get if you take the fluctuating dollar into account. If you do not, i.e. you look at the economic growth in regarding a constant dollar, Sweden and even Germany outperformed Switzerland regarding GDP per capita. Now Norway, they've skyrocketed either way*. That said, evaluating the economy is more complex than that. Obviously Germany has not exactly seen stellar economic growth in that period. For example Germany has had horrid wage development (until the financial crisis, where some other countries tanked comparably). Comparing UK to Switzerland is problematic due to an entirely different reason alone already though, namely the much, much higher share of immigrants, which seems to go against the wishes of many Leave voters.

*Seriously. Very impressive.
 

Hazzuh

Member
Well, 51st state is a bit much, but a free trade agreement with the US wouldn't hurt (and is perhaps expected). Same as a free trade agreement with Canada (which the EU don't have), agreements with China (same), etc, etc, etc.

Looks like the US might be pulling up the drawbridge right now, not much appetite for trade deals as far as I can tell.
 
It's just a big baby tantrum, and the EU is having none of it.

It was a desperate "Oh fuck. They actually voted for it. Gotta buy time." move and nothing more.

Also maybe he hopes if he can delay it long enough then maybe the history books might say down the road it was the other guy who pushed the big red exit button and not him.
 

Tethur

Member
I don't mean to be as facetious as I may seem but don't worry guys! Apparently Vote Leave have a plan!

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

Someone sent it to me (On Twitter no less) after i moaned about neither side having a plan, painfully obvious post Vinegate
sorry
./...

Not that anyone has the time to read the whole thing but it's not exactly "By Farage, Johnson, Gove, Murdoch"...

"We then propose a third phase, which involves breaking free of the Brusselscentric
administration of European trade, building a genuine, Europe-wide
single market, with common decision-making for all parties. This will be fully
integrated into the global rule-making process, through existing international
bodies."

We have a cunning plan, but first the rest of you need to stop what you're doing and leave the European Union.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
I wonder if some prime ministers or presidents are thinking of preemptively calling for their own referendums hoping for leave to lose. If they wait then things might tilt back in favor of leave later on, if they won now it would push another referendum to years from now.
 

Hasney

Member
I wonder if some prime ministers or presidents are thinking of preemptively calling for their own referendums hoping for leave to lose. If they wait then things might tilt back in favor of leave later on, if they won now it would push another referendum to years from now.

Nah, we'll be remembered as the country that got a worse deal. Tehy'll just have to effectively communicate that.
 
In a way my false impression of the UK from popular British media just reinforces how "out of touch" one half of the population is from the other. I'd assumed Jeremy Clarkson was some radical right wing caricature but it turns out he's fairly moderate compared to a large swathe of the country. A large part of the country does talk about making Britain great again or good vs bad immigrants and whatnot, when for a long time I'd assumed British people were more progressive because they've already had their adventure with Empire and moved on.

I assumed the Daily Mail was some sort of sarcastic British prank on the rest of the world, not a legitimate world view for half the population.

That's the bizarre thing. A lot of us thought we were more progressive, which is probably why some of us were so apathetic. I genuinely thought people wouldn't be so stupid as to vote leave. But low and behold... here we are.

My opinion of huge chunks of the population has crashed through the floor after the vote. They simply can't process facts and nothing I say can penetrate that thick layer of delusion and fantasy.
 

accel

Member
Those are the values you get if you take the fluctuating dollar into account. If you do not, i.e. you look at the economic growth in regarding a constant dollar, Sweden and even Germany outperformed Switzerland regarding GDP per capita. Now Norway, they've skyrocketed either way*. That said, evaluating the economy is more complex than that.

I see. Interesting.

I agree with your last sentence in the quote, obviously.
 

Alx

Member
I wonder if some prime ministers or presidents are thinking of preemptively calling for their own referendums hoping for leave to lose. If they wait then things might tilt back in favor of leave later on, if they won now it would push another referendum to years from now.

Well in France some pro-EU politicians already stated they were in favour of a referendum. The polls also show more people favorable to a referendum than people wanting a Frexit.
I'm not sure it's worth the gamble, personally. It's the kind of thinking that brought UK to the current situation. It seems that referendums about EU matters have a tendency to backfire (I wasn't even surprised by the Brexit results because of that)

We have a cunning plan, but first the rest of you need to stop what you're doing and leave the European Union.

It reminds me of that old joke, saying that the only real issue UK has with EU is that they can't claim they invented it.
 
As a northerner who is disillusioned with South ran South centric politics and feels like the North get a raw deal consistently I often ponder how a North South split could benefit my local area but then I remember that my entire area is a racist hell hole ready to spew forth at any moment.

It genuinely boggles my mind how people in the North decided to vote Leave when we benefited greatly from things like the EU agriculture rebate. Now the farming industries of the country face overwhelming odds to stay afloat unless Brussels decides to send £3bn our way.

Maybe I should just move to Sweden or Canada, Those seem like nice level headed places. I just worry about finding work there.
 
S

Steve.1981

Unconfirmed Member
Looks like a valid strategy to me?

Are you joking? It's really hard to tell these days.

Just in case you're not, I'll quickly explain. That guy was completely ignorant of the fact that Nicola Sturgeon is literally out trying to somehow salvage Scotland's membership of the EU right now, today.

He didn't know because he doesn't care to know these things.
 
Those are the values you get if you take the fluctuating dollar into account. If you do not, i.e. you look at the economic growth in regarding a constant dollar, Sweden and even Germany outperformed Switzerland regarding GDP per capita. Now Norway, they've skyrocketed either way*. That said, evaluating the economy is more complex than that. Obviously Germany has not exactly seen stellar economic growth in that period. For example Germany has had horrid wage development (until the financial crisis, where some other countries tanked comparably). Comparing UK to Switzerland is problematic due to an entirely different reason alone already though, namely the much, much higher share of immigrants, which seems to go against the wishes of many Leave voters.

*Seriously. Very impressive.

Any comparison with Germany in that timeframe is flawed because how many other countries were integrating a poor and broken country.
 
Well in France some pro-EU politicians already stated they were in favour of a referendum. The polls also show more people favorable to a referendum than people wanting a Frexit.
I'm not sure it's worth the gamble, personally. It's the kind of thinking that brought UK to the current situation. It seems that referendums about EU matters have a tendency to backfire (I wasn't even surprised by the Brexit results because of that)

Probably because the EU has been an all too convenient scapegoat for national governments to blame for all kind of screw-ups that they themselves are actually responsible for (and the UK government is certainly not alone in that regard). I don't particularly like Juncker - he's one of those faceless, unimaginative career politicians that makes the EU so hard to like - but he had a point when he stated this in yesterday's address to the European Parliament.

They really fucked up the entire situation with Greece though; this one is pretty much on the EU institutions and it's a big one.
 

Zafir

Member
As a northerner who is disillusioned with South ran South centric politics and feels like the North get a raw deal consistently I often ponder how a North South split could benefit my local area but then I remember that my entire area is a racist hell hole ready to spew forth at any moment.

It genuinely boggles my mind how people in the North decided to vote Leave when we benefited greatly from things like the EU agriculture rebate. Now the farming industries of the country face overwhelming odds to stay afloat unless Brussels decides to send £3bn our way.

Maybe I should just move to Sweden or Canada, Those seem like nice level headed places. I just worry about finding work there.
Yeah.

As a Northerner(Yorkshire more specifically) I can totally understand why people are annoyed at the government. I can't, however, understand why they thought leaving was a good idea. I also can't say I feel splitting the North away solves it, because evidently most of the North don't even want what I want!
 
Any comparison with Germany in that timeframe is flawed because how many other countries were integrating a poor and broken country.

But that has multiple effects - it can actually leads to increased growth after the initial pains of integrating, in much the same way the post-Soviet states in the East saw high levels of growth when they first started openly utilising capitalist economic models.

Obviously Norway had something of a helping hand, too...

Edit: On another topic, it's possible to dislike policies that you benefit from. I'm not really thrilled about any government, whether it's regional, national or the EU, subsidising farming and agriculture. Maybe if I personally benefitted I'd hold my tongue but just because you gain doesn't mean you like it.
 

Joni

Member
I wonder if some prime ministers or presidents are thinking of preemptively calling for their own referendums hoping for leave to lose. If they wait then things might tilt back in favor of leave later on, if they won now it would push another referendum to years from now.
Or they don't do one and ignore the extremists that want one, as most extremists fizzle out the moment they have power. Belgium is ruled by a party that wants to split Belgium, which they have ignored on return to do the other things in their plan.
 

tfur

Member
Looks like the FTSE has recovered, the US market is recovering, and the GBP/USD is recovering each day. Energy markets are recovering nicely as well.
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Looks like the FTSE has recovered, the US market is recovering, and the GBP/USD is recovering each day. Energy markets are recovering nicely as well.

They are recovering because nothing is happening. The dagger has been drawn but has not yet been stabbed into the country's heart. Once it is, it's all going to fall apart.
 

Morat

Banned
Born in Stalin Soviet gulag on the edge of the Arctic Ocean and started his political career with the underground Social Democrat movement. Is now the Lithuanian EU commissioner for health and food safety AND a trained cardiac surgeon.

Holy crap, what a guy.

Farage, on the other hand, was a broker who then moved on to start a nationalist party revolving around xenophobia.
 

Steel

Banned
Born in Stalin Soviet gulag on the edge of the Arctic Ocean and started his political career with the underground Social Democrat movement. Is now the Lithuanian EU commissioner for health and food safety AND a trained cardiac surgeon.

Holy crap, what a guy.

It's all lies anyway. Don't you know that no one there has ever had a proper job?
 

Pandy

Member
They are recovering because nothing is happening. The dagger has been drawn but has not yet been stabbed into the country's heart. Once it is, it's all going to fall apart.

Exactly, they've realised they still have two years of dividends to collect before the whole lot goes down the plughole.
 

Breakage

Member
Ben Bernanke, chairman of the US central bank from 2006 to 2014, on Brexit:
After several days of market upset, a few reflections on last week’s momentous vote in Great Britain.

Even more obvious now than before the vote is that the biggest losers, economically speaking, will be the British themselves. The vote ushers in what will be several years of tremendous uncertainty—about the rules that will govern the U.K.’s trade with its continental neighbors, about the fates of foreign workers in Britain and British workers abroad, and about the country’s political direction, including perhaps where its borders will ultimately lie. Such fundamental uncertainty will depress business formation, capital investment, and hiring; indeed, it had begun to do so even before the vote. The U.K. economic slowdown to come will be exacerbated by falling asset values (houses, commercial real estate, stocks) and damaged confidence on the part of households and businesses. Ironically, the sharp decline in the value of the pound may be a bit of a buffer here as, all else equal, it will make British exports more competitive.

In the longer run, the uncertainty will dissipate, but the economic costs to the U.K. still will exceed the benefits. Financial services and other globally oriented industries, which depend on unfettered access to European markets and exchanges, will come under pressure. At the same time, the purported gains from freeing the U.K. from the heavy regulatory hand of Brussels will be limited, because Britain will likely have to accept most of those rules (without ability to influence them) as part of restructured trade agreements. Immigration is unpopular in the U.K., and slowing it was a motivation for some “leave” voters, but a more slowly growing labor force likely would also reduce overall economic growth.

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/ben-.../28-brexit?cid=00900015020089101US0001-062901

So in other words, a completely regressive fuck up of a move. The people that voted to Leave really have no idea what they've done. Cameron was utterly reckless in reducing the complexities of being in the EU to a simple yes/no vote. I keep asking myself how anyone in the government thought it would be a good idea to let the "people" decide something of this magnitude.
We had a good deal and now we're going to be worse off and all I've heard from Leave supporters and politicians is "we need to come together and unite", "we need solidarity" and "accept change and move on".

They've opted to send the UK backwards, people are going to suffer economically/socially and we will have less influence in Europe. All this for what? Because 52% want to take Britain back to some nostalgic vision.

Will those that chose to remain in the EU just accept the uncertainity,lower living standards, job losses, increased austerity, loss of opportunity and social fragmentation that will emerge from voting to leave?
I mean are Remainers really going to say "that's life, just have roll with it"?. I feel like I'm done with living in England. I have no plan on how to get out, but in recent days I've developed a strong urge to find a way out and disassociate myself with Britain. The racist incidents that emerged as a result of Brexit have made me feel ashamed to be a British citizen. Has anyone else felt like that post-Brexit?
 
Born in Stalin Soviet gulag on the edge of the Arctic Ocean and started his political career with the underground Social Democrat movement. Is now the Lithuanian EU commissioner for health and food safety AND a trained cardiac surgeon.

Holy crap, what a guy.

well i bet i have a higher gamerscore than him.
 

Moosichu

Member
Born in Stalin Soviet gulag on the edge of the Arctic Ocean and started his political career with the underground Social Democrat movement. Is now the Lithuanian EU commissioner for health and food safety AND a trained cardiac surgeon.

Holy crap, what a guy.

None of those sound like a True British Job to me. Farage has experienced the real world unlike this pampered career politician.
 

Oriel

Member
Mariano Rajoy made it quite clear that Scotland would get no special treatment when the UK leaves the EU. Hardly surprising, he's made no secret of his opposition to Scottish independence. I'm not sure what Sturgeon was hoping to achieve in Brussels today really, barring EU support for their membership in the event Scotland becomes independent.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Hope the message is getting through trickle by trickle.....

y2GnDEw.jpg
 

oti

Banned
Mariano Rajoy made it quite clear that Scotland would get no special treatment when the UK leaves the EU. Hardly surprising, he's made no secret of his opposition to Scottish independence. I'm not sure what Sturgeon was hoping to achieve in Brussels today really, barring EU support for their membership in the event Scotland becomes independent.

Rajoy is the only one who dismissed Scottish independence (so far). Him doing that is hardly surprising. It's Spain after all.
 

Best

Member
Will those that chose to remain in the EU just accept the uncertainity,lower living standards, job losses, increased austerity, loss of opportunity and social fragmentation that will emerge from voting to leave?
I mean are Remainers really going to say "that's life, just have roll with it"?. I feel like I'm done with living in England. I have no plan on how to get out, but in recent days I've developed a strong urge to find a way out and disassociate myself with Britain. The racist incidents that emerged as a result of Brexit have made me feel ashamed to be a British citizen. Has anyone else felt like that post-Brexit?

I feel like it's going to be an exodus, especially those under 30 with degree and geographic mobility. Possibly in the long term the population of the U.K. will trend downward. The good part is that this will impoverish the leave voting golden oldies by sinking their pensions.
 
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