Support NeoGAF

[Funky Papa]

Happy new year. Britain’s ambassador to the EU has unexpectedly resigned

The shock departure, just eight weeks before the March 2017 deadline set by Prime Minister Theresa May to begin the two-year Brexit negotiations, took both London and Brussels by surprise.

However, Sir Ivan had been thrust into the spotlight after the December leak of his memo suggesting a comprehensive Brexit trade deal could take much longer than the two years set down in the Lisbon Treaty for exit, and not be ultimately resolved until the 2020s.

...

Although there was no immediate reaction from Downing Street or the Brussels insitutions and parties in the Parliament, probably Brussels’ most experienced UK-watcher, Charles Grant of the Centre for European Studies, tweeted that it made a ‘good’ Brexit deal “less likely”.

Grant said “[Rogers was] one of the v few people at top of Brit govt who understand EU.”

I'm sure this is another example of Theresa May's brilliant maskirovka, though.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Happy new year. Britain’s ambassador to the EU has unexpectedly resigned



I'm sure this is another example of Theresa May's brilliant maskirovka, though.

Expect a Daily Mail headline along the lines of 'good riddance to a Remoaner' or some shit.

 

[oti]

Happy new year. Britain’s ambassador to the EU has unexpectedly resigned



I'm sure this is another example of Theresa May's brilliant maskirovka, though.

Huge blow for the UK in the negotiations.

 

[Chinner]

Don't worry, this is all part of our excellent negotiating strategy. You will all find out, eventually, at some point, probably. We have to act out the will of the people.

 

[JonathanEx]

Definitely not burying our heads in the sand that we keep pushing people out who say there might be issues. STOP TALKING BRITAIN DOWN WITH YOUR ANALYSIS AND REASONABLE WARNINGS

 

[anonymous_abc]

The other side will be so shocked when the UK comes out with their plan. Unexpected awe and terror I tell you!

 

[Uzzy]

I wonder how many more are to follow? I can't imagine that senior civil servants are fond of being dismissed as miserable remoaners every time they offer their advice.

Farage is already calling for a purge of the foreign office. Lovely.

 

[Walshicus]

Edit... Wrong thread!

 

[Theonik]

I wonder how many more are to follow? I can't imagine that senior civil servants are fond of being dismissed as miserable remoaners every time they offer their advice.

Farage is already calling for a purge of the foreign office. Lovely.

The best strategy when the civil service appears to be greatly lacking in experienced staff to handle the herculean task ahead seems to be to sack the more skilled of the whole bunch because they make you look bad. Didn't ya know.

 

[slider]

Farage is already calling for a purge of the foreign office. Lovely.

Hate that he's able to offer those sorts of soundbites without someone, at the very least, questioning them.

Edit: Incidentally, much respect for Rogers. If you're reading this, Ivan... I'll buy you a pint.

 

[chadskin]

The Economist not pulling any punches:

It is puzzling that Brexiteers, whose campaign was summed up as “Vote Leave, take back control”, seem happy with the WTO option. The WTO is truly global, with only a handful of countries outside it (zealous as they are about sovereignty, Brexiteers do not want to join the ranks of Turkmenistan and Nauru). But forsaking one unelected, unaccountable bureaucracy in Brussels for another housed in a leafy district of Geneva seems perverse. WTO members are at the mercy of its “dispute-settlement” regime, which allows other countries to enforce penalties.

The “WTO option” for Brexit is far from straightforward

 

[anonymous_abc]

The Economist not pulling any punches:


The “WTO option” for Brexit is far from straightforward

Those damn unelected Wtocrats in Geneva with their gravy train funded by UK tax payers....

 

[sammex]

Andrea Leadsom promises Brexit bonfire of regulation for farmers

“No more 6ft EU billboards littering the landscape,” she said. “No more existential debates to determine what counts as a bush, a hedge, or a tree. And no more ridiculous, bureaucratic three-crop rule."

What harm could getting rid of a silly little rule like that do?

The three-crop rule, which was agreed by EU agriculture ministers in 2013, decrees that some larger farms must grow a variety of crops.

The measure is designed to mitigate the impact modern mass farming can have on the environment and local biodiversity and is unpopular with many British farmers.

However, the Greens condemned the plan. Molly Scott Cato, a Green MEP who sits on the European parliament’s agricultural committee, said the government seemed “determined to dive headlong into encouraging damaging monocultures”.

So it begins.

 

[Burai]

Andrea Leadsom promises Brexit bonfire of regulation for farmers



What harm could getting rid of a silly little rule like that do?



So it begins.

Unless we want to trade crops with the EU at a price that makes any sense at all, of course. And we really do.

http://www.freshplaza.com/article/123774/UK-Vegetable-imports-from-few-selected-countries

 

[PdotMichael]

Is like a modern version of the Mongolian empire returning back to their nomad lifestyle without any ambitions left.

 

[Chinner]

MAKE VEGETABLES GREAT AGAIN.

 

[StayDead]

It's been how many months and the government still has no plan and they're still being dumb about the whole thing. Boy we're in for a WONDERFUL next 3 years under this govenrment.

 

[RedSparrows]

I don't know very much about farming, but I do know Leadsom is actually stupid.

 

[Xando]

The Economist not pulling any punches:


The ”WTO option" for Brexit is far from straightforward

Andrea Leadsom promises Brexit bonfire of regulation for farmers



What harm could getting rid of a silly little rule like that do?



So it begins.

As someone spending probably 25-30% of my time in the UK and rest on the continent i'm not sure if i should feel schadenfreude or be worried about these politicians in charge.

 

[PdotMichael]

Sometimes a country gets what it deserves.

 

[sammex]

Unless we want to trade crops with the EU at a price that makes any sense at all, of course. And we really do.

http://www.freshplaza.com/article/123774/UK-Vegetable-imports-from-few-selected-countries

Just my opinion but I think long term environmental concerns should have priority over shorter term economic ones.

Obviously I'd feel better about it if we didn't have an environment secretary that thinks farming "has been around as long as mankind itself"

 

[theaface]

Meanwhile...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38517624

Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage is to present a daily chat show on the radio station LBC.

The Nigel Farage Show will air from 19:00 to 20:00, Mondays to Thursdays, with the host describing it as "full of opinions, callers and reaction".

He tweeted: "I invite listeners to agree with me, challenge me & together we can lead Britain's conversation."

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Meanwhile...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38517624

Fucking why.

Also I realise this means he isn't really leaving the country, is he?

 

[Commander Jameson]

Maybe just get him fielding questions from James O'Brien for an hour?

 

[kmag]

This weeks Economist

 

[theaface]

This weeks Economist

I'd call it charitable. She's more of a 'no' than a 'maybe', as in "I've no idea how to unfuck this mess I've found myself in".

 

[Starwolf_UK]

So what was this I heard about Theresa going to spill the beans near the end on the month. Well you've got to have a plan for your appeal with the UK courts falling flat I suppose.

Would Theresa Mayhem been a bit too much for the Economist? Well guess you've got to save that one for 2023.

Fucking why.

Also I realise this means he isn't really leaving the country, is he?

Sadly, Nigel (like his ATM, Aaron) says a lot of things that are not true

 

[JonathanEx]

The turning on Theresa May will be interesting, I wondered how long the 'strict so correct' fascade would last, when her main thing is just to bollock others and delegate.

I liked this piece in the New Statesman basically saying May's objectives are clear, we just don't like them: http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...thern-irelands-peace-process-not-too-big-fail

I guess you don't want to come out and say 'no single market', because maybe it's beneficial to make the EU to blame for that rather than it be a goal for some reason - and if you said you're aiming for it, the inevitable lack of access will cause the deal to look like a failure.

 

[sammex]

It should be Theresa Mayday.

 

[Uzzy]

So that well known Eurosceptic Brexiteer Vince Cable has come out against freedom of movement. Well, not entirely against it..

But I have serious doubts that EU free movement is tenable or even desirable. First, the freedom is not a universal right, but selective. It does not apply to Indians, Jamaicans, Americans or Australians. They face complex and often harsh visa restrictions. One uncomfortable feature of the referendum was the large Brexit vote among British Asians, many of whom resented the contrast between the restrictions they face and the welcome mat laid out for Poles and Romanians.

The economics are ambiguous. Seen globally, more migration is undeniably a positive. People moving from high unemployment, low productivity countries to areas of labour scarcity and higher productivity produce economic gains. But the benefits accrue mainly to migrants themselves (and business owners).

There is no great argument of liberal principle for free EU movement; the economics is debatable; and the politics is conclusively hostile.

There is one argument for freedom of movement though.

The argument for free movement has become tactical: it is part of a package that also contains the wider economic benefits of the single market. Those benefits are real, which is why the government must prioritise single market access and shared regulation. Yet that may not be possible to reconcile with restrictions on movement.

 

[Heartfyre]

It should be Theresa Mayday.

They must be saving that for Week Two of the negotiations.

 

[Tacitus_]

Andrea Leadsom promises Brexit bonfire of regulation for farmers



What harm could getting rid of a silly little rule like that do?

Please tell me they aren't against crop rotation. I don't know much of farming, but even I know that you have to rotate crops or the soil will be depleted of nutrients.

 

[oti]

Please tell me they aren't against crop rotation. I don't know much of farming, but even I know that you have to rotate crops or the soil will be depleted of nutrients.

We learned that in sixth grade or something lol.

 

[RedSparrows]

It's regulations about preventing monocultures, iirc.

The Tories are using all of this as an excuse for their usual shtick: strip regs, assume everything is rosier.

 

[killer_clank]

So that well known Eurosceptic Brexiteer Vince Cable has come out against freedom of movement. Well, not entirely against it..



There is one argument for freedom of movement though.

The end of freedom of movement is pretty upsetting for me and most other people my age but I sort of agree with him in that the argument has been lost politically and ending it might be the only thing that can restore some degree of normalcy to the endless debates about immigration instead of actually important things like the NHS. That's my hope anyway... (oh god who am i kidding)

EDIT

Also immigration should now be devolved to Scotland, Wales and NI, and maybe even English regions in some ways though that might be harder. Scotland needs more immigration with our aging population so anything to be able to attract migrants to Scotland specifically could work out well. Australia and Canada do region only visas so I see no reason it can't be done here, just issue Scotland or Wales specific National Insurance numbers or something like that.

 

[Tacitus_]

It's regulations about preventing monocultures, iirc.

The Tories are using all of this as an excuse for their usual shtick: strip regs, assume everything is rosier.

Are the farmers hating it for any reason other than "can't have those guys telling me what to do"? My uncle is a farmer and he's grown multiple types of crops as long as I remember - couple types of cereal grains, rapeseed, hay, potatoes and whatever else.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Also immigration should now be devolved to Scotland, Wales and NI, and maybe even English regions in some ways though that might be harder. Scotland needs more immigration with our aging population so anything to be able to attract migrants to Scotland specifically could work out well. Australia and Canada do region only visas so I see no reason it can't be done here, just issue Scotland or Wales specific National Insurance numbers or something like that.

This can't work. Pretty much no state that has ever lasted a significant period of time has ever done something like that, and only one jurisdiction which has a government with a very controversial position itself has called for that. Northern Ireland would never need it as there's a commitment for Irish citizens and the Irish border, while Wales won't ask for it either, nor will English regions (which no longer have any self-government post-2011).

Australia and Canada do indeed have sponsorship programmes based on needs which vary by State/Province according to those governments, but that has to go through one immigration system for the whole country and everything is ultimately approved from there, including the ability to implement quotas, which isn't allowed within the EU for single market workers. I'm scared what Brexit means economically, but devolving immigration entirely is not something that can work in a single country, in my view, and is instead de facto independence without a vote.

There's a lot that's going on right now that's not reasonable, but that list includes devolving all immigration powers, not just the right-wing's ideas. Pretty much no place on Earth has had a region that does that for a significant period of time that is not independent or effectively so, whether an autonomous region in an otherwise unitary system or in a federal system, and not the places you mentioned either, which work entirely within federal quotas that Canberra and Ottawa set every year.

There has to be a way forward that doesn't compromise two unions, and I believe there is, but it's not going to be what you're talking about here.

 

[Number45]

Are the farmers hating it for any reason other than "can't have those guys telling me what to do"? My uncle is a farmer and he's grown multiple types of crops as long as I remember - couple types of cereal grains, rapeseed, hay, potatoes and whatever else.

It's probably considered inherently bad by Leadsom and her ilk purely because it's a directive from the EU. Climate change denial is just around the corner, I can feel it.

 

[twobear]

Sorry to interrupt with something other than Brexit, but there's another issue with UK Politics at the moment that I'm interested in; the continued collapse of the Labour Party.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...n-symptom-labour-party?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Prompted by another article saying 'Labour needs to learn it's lessons, etc. etc.'. My issue with this line of thinking—no matter how much I'm coming to think that Corbyn is a disaster—is that I'm no closer to actually understanding what this miraculous Centre Left alternative will look like. He can't look like Ed Miliband (he might have been too left wing?) and he can't look like Gordon Brown (not sure what the accepted reasons for his failure are).

Basically; what policies would this leader have? Do they just want a return to New Labour or is there an acceptance that, as much good as that project did, it failed in key respects? I get that Corbyn's 'ideological purity' is an issue (one that I find increasingly frustrating), but do people think the Labour Party should have any ideological foundations beyond the gaining and holding of power (I have not seen any suggested in all the articles complaining about their current Socialist garb)? What can I expect this New New Labour to do differently, not only from current Labour, but also from the Tories (and no this is not a disingenuous question; we've heard many Labour grandees over the last few years tell people that Labour needs to be seen as 'tough on the deficit', which implies a similar low spending approach that as the Tories).

 

[Mr. Sam]

I mean this in the least smarmy way possible: you do know we have a general UK politics thread?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1052585&page=1

 

[twobear]

I mean this in the least smarmy way possible: you do know we have a general UK politics thread?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1052585&page=1

Oh shit I thought this was it, my bad.

 

[RedSparrows]

BoE chief economist saying negative Brexit predictions were likely overdone, and the economy is doing better than feared.

Good!

I just hope it continues, and that the seismic political mess isn't a seismic economic one. It's not as if the Brexit vote was predicated on rigorous understanding, and it isn't as if Brexit hasn't revealed how shakey and ignorant the political workings of this country actually are.

(multiple negatives ftw)

 

[Jezbollah]

BoE chief economist saying negative Brexit predictions were likely overdone, and the economy is doing better than feared.

Good!

I just hope it continues, and that the seismic political mess isn't a seismic economic one. It's not as if the Brexit vote was predicated on rigorous understanding, and it isn't as if Brexit hasn't revealed how shakey and ignorant the political workings of this country actually are.

(multiple negatives ftw)

My first reaction to this was that just because it didn't immediately have any economic ramifications, doesn't mean it's theres not going to be an absolute shit show during and after article 50 being invoked.

People herp-derping at the FTSE being at record highs and unemployment figures right now are those who I suspect will be back in their box when the shit goes down.

 

[killer_clank]

It'll be interesting to see if there's a major effect on the stock market and pound when the UK declares article 50 beyond the initial day or two, it's going to happen in March or even earlier if May decides to get all STRONG PM BREXIT MEANS BREXIT and does it earlier, so surely the stock market can't be too shocked when it actually happens.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Sturgeon suggests soft Brexit could take indyref off table in short term

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38528058

 

[sammex]

'train crash' Brexit is the new brexit flavour of the month.

Aside from a groaning intray, Barrow inherits a demoralised and depleted team. He has just lost his deputy, Shan Morgan, who is due to start a new job in Wales, and gained a new turf war in Whitehall, where the top civil servant at the department for exiting the EU opposed his appointment and demanded to be in charge of talks instead.
...
The swift appointment of Barrow, an FCO veteran and former ambassador to Moscow, was intended to reassure civil service mandarins worried that the government no longer wanted to hear bad news – a signal, it was claimed, that it was at least trying to strike a deal in Brussels.

But the reaction from those in favour of a more hardline approach has only underlined the suspicion in Whitehall that many politicians secretly relish the possibility of walking away with no agreement.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Bloomberg has made a couple fantastic charts which compare arrangements.

 

[Chinner]

Looks too experty nonsense. Are you trying to defy the will of the people?

 

[daviyoung]

Boris: "I'll take one of the Canada, please"

 

[8bit]

Please tell me they aren't against crop rotation. I don't know much of farming, but even I know that you have to rotate crops or the soil will be depleted of nutrients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12W34XWIQwU