killer_clank
Member
It'll probably be the UUP/SDLP from NI that makes up the difference, they were against brexit.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
- Thread starter Hasney
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It'll probably be the UUP/SDLP from NI that makes up the difference, they were against brexit.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I really wish he would just fuck off. I've been a Labour supporter all my life but I just can't stand him.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Oh look, most MPs are cowards. What a shocker.
I wonder if the pound will take another tumble.
I wonder if the pound will take another tumble.
Snarfington
Member
Fuck this country's misinformed voter base and its unfit-for-purpose, foolish government. I'm not looking forward to the gloaty newspaper headlines tomorrow. Literally cheering for the country's loss.
The GBP value bets will be great at work tomorrow though.
And Corbyn threw away free brownie points with his diehard base. He may actually be pissing away that grassroots support he had from young people with this one.
The GBP value bets will be great at work tomorrow though.
And Corbyn threw away free brownie points with his diehard base. He may actually be pissing away that grassroots support he had from young people with this one.
He makes it really hard to support him.
Totally idiotic position for Labour to put themselves in.
To be fair, if that's what he believes then that's what he should vote for. I'd hate to see opposition for opposition's sake, just look at America...
Of course, if that's what he believes then he can kindly fuck off out of the Labour party
Huw_Dawson
Member
Do you want to do something about this?
Good news! You can help out in TWO by-elections right now. And by helping out the Lib Dems, you're backing the remaining sane voice in England!
If you really want to help, you can also join the Lib Dems. It's £10 for a year. You can do it from the Lib Dem's main website - http://www.libdems.org.uk/
Good news! You can help out in TWO by-elections right now. And by helping out the Lib Dems, you're backing the remaining sane voice in England!
If you really want to help, you can also join the Lib Dems. It's £10 for a year. You can do it from the Lib Dem's main website - http://www.libdems.org.uk/
ultratruman
Banned
God bless Ken Clarke and the SNP.
Wow, this would put the total number of lib dem MPs into double figures! Brexit may be about to be stopped in its tracks.
Fuck the Liberal Democrats. They created this mess by putting these pyromaniacs back into power. Charles Kennedy would've gone into coalition with Brown and none of this would be happening.
Wow, this would put the total number of lib dem MPs into double figures! Brexit may be about to be stopped in its tracks.
Fuck the Liberal Democrats. They created this mess by putting these pyromaniacs back into power. Charles Kennedy would've gone into coalition with Brown and none of this would be happening.
I've already tweeted at Mr Corbyn explaining my dissapointment. I thought he genuinly cared about the younger generation, but clearly he doesnt.
I've lost all respect I had for him through all this and I am now completely and utterly disenfranchised with our own countries politics. We have no power and I'm going to be stuck here likely until I die now.
Huw_Dawson
Member
OK.
Do you recall a Brexit referendum happening during those five years of Lib Dems in coalition?
No, that didn't happen.
Why did the Brexit referendum happen?
Because Cameron put it in his manifesto to curry favour from UKIP voters.
Why did the Brexit referendum then actually happen?
Because when the Lib Dems warned you that letting the Tories have unrestricted control would lead to very bad things, you didn't believe them. Remember "we'd give heart to the Tories and a brain to Labour?"
If the Liberal Democrats were in government right now, Brexit WOULD NOT have happened. That manifesto pledge would have gone on the chopping block.
Every time I hear someone shout "Lib Dems were enablers!" I tell them - "that's what the hard right of the Tory party WANTED you to think. That was as much their narrative as Labour's."
What this has proven resoundingly is that you cannot trust Labour to look after your hopes and dreams, and you cannot allow the Tories to trample on them. Call us a moderating influence, or enablers, or whatever you like. But don't pretend that my party had anything to do with this turgid, vile mess this incompetent government will drag us through now.
ultratruman
Banned
You are asking the wrong questions. In rushing to get their feet under the table, the Lib Dems enabled the one thing that always causes chaos in the UK: credibility for the Conservative Party. Charles Kennedy, the best leader the Lib Dems ever had, is on the record saying he wouldn't have taken this bait (if he hadn't been pushed out as leader).
I'm pretty sure no matter what the Lib Dems did in 2010 it would have been electoral suicide. They chose the only option that didn't result in a minority government in the middle of the credit crunch
The only way you can blame the Lib Dems for Brexit is for not winning enough seats in 2015 that they could force the Tories to drop the referendum in a coalition agreement. Funnily, ex-LD voters hatred of a Tory government has given us an unfettered, eurosceptic conservative majority.
But what should they have done? Form a minority government with Labour? Let the conservatives form a minority government at a time we needed stable leadership? They were screwed either way really.
The only way you can blame the Lib Dems for Brexit is for not winning enough seats in 2015 that they could force the Tories to drop the referendum in a coalition agreement. Funnily, ex-LD voters hatred of a Tory government has given us an unfettered, eurosceptic conservative majority.
But what should they have done? Form a minority government with Labour? Let the conservatives form a minority government at a time we needed stable leadership? They were screwed either way really.
ultratruman
Banned
Kennedy wanted a progressive alliance with Labour, which would've also been politically advantageous for Lib Dems themselves in the long term.
ultratruman
Banned
Maybe it would have, people said the same about the conservative-lib dem coalition. Personally I'd have preferred a more unstable but sane government than being condemned to a conservative prime minister for 10 years.
Huw_Dawson
Member
It would also have involved the Lib Dems allowing Brown to continue as PM - as much as we hate the Tories now, folks have to remember that Brown was extremely unpopular.
Kennedy - indeed, a lot of the party, probably the majority - would have preferred to work with Labour. We have vastly more in common with Labour than we do the Tories. But, ultimately, Cameron and Clegg was a more sane paring than Clegg and Brown.
If Brown had held on to a few more seats, then a Lab/Lib/SNP government could have happened.
Again, the 2015 election was a story of two halves. In Scotland, Labour were thrown out. In England, the Lib Dems were thrown out. It was thanks to the latter that Cameron got his majority.
By accepting the "Lib Dems were the enablers" narrative, you're forgetting that what enabled Cameron in the end was people NOT voting Lib Dem, not people voting for them.
In 2010, had the 1st TV debate been held one week before polling day instead of a few weeks before, you'd have had Clegg as PM.
In 2015, had Clegg stood down as Lib Dem leader and/or the public in Tory-Lib Dem marginals had not decided to punish the Lib Dems, then you'd not have had Brexit.
The same is true of voting for Labour, of course - had Labour run better campaigns in 2010 and 2015, we'd be in vastly different situations right now.
I have a question for the thread and I guess with current company involved I might be able to get a decent answer. What do I need to do to look towards getting into politics? I feel so disenfranchised that failing leaving the country the only thing I can possibly do is look into somehow running myself in the future.
If nobody else is going to represent me, I guess the only person who can is me.
If nobody else is going to represent me, I guess the only person who can is me.
Thats what the country voted for though, I'd also imagine that most Lib Dem voters lean more towards Labour than Tory, so making that coalition was a total betrayal of their voters.
I don't see how it can be argued that they didn't enable the Tories, given that the Tories needed a coalition with them to be in power
Huw_Dawson
Member
The best way to do it is make up your mind which party best represents your beliefs, then either join online or get in touch with your local party.
Depending on the area, you might have an active local party, or you might not. But that's generally the best place to get started.
This is party-agnostic. All parties generally work the same way here - you can go to Labour's site and sign up there, or the Tories, or UKIP, or the Lib Dems, or the nationalists, or the Greens.
Once you're signed up, you need to let the local party know you want to help.
Generally, helping means getting involved in local politics, especially this far from a general election.
However, there are many ways to get involved in a party, including internal elections to party posts, or just agreeing to deliver a few hundred leaflets for a local council campaign.
Alternatively, if you decide against joining a party, you can also get involved with charity work, which is also a great way to help out your community.
Getting involved in politics is fun, especially if you enjoy politics as a hobby.
So Brexit is now really official? Depressing times, really.
What does becoming a tax haven entail for the UK economically speaking? (if that happens). And how will/can the EU react to that? I recall our vice-PM stating we (NL) will not accept an UK-EU tradedeal if they become a tax haven.
What does becoming a tax haven entail for the UK economically speaking? (if that happens). And how will/can the EU react to that? I recall our vice-PM stating we (NL) will not accept an UK-EU tradedeal if they become a tax haven.
There's also the independent MP in northern Ireland for north Down, Lady Sylvia Hermon.
well Article 50 still hasn't been triggered, this vote was just a delay to the inevitable but UK still has to hand in its notice to the EU
and in terms of UK's economic outlook, no-one really knows... a lot of independent tax havens are small countries with small populations and even the Western ones like Andorra, Monaco etc have some good trade deals with the EU
killer_clank
Member
The tax haven line is a bit of a negotiating tactic, tbh. If this country was an actual tax haven it literally wouldn't be able to have public services in the way we do now, even the Tories wouldn't be able to sell that to the electorate. Corporate taxes are already ludicrously low in this country, there's not really that much further they can fall.
They can reduce corporate taxes, capital gains etc. and raise income tax.
ultratruman
Banned
Brown wasn't a popular candidate, but more so than Ed Milliband. He was also a very good Prime Minister, and had demonstrated his competency when it came to dealing with the potentially catastrophic fallout from the financial crisis. In that febrile situation, this should've informed the Lib Dem's decision more than popularity. Instead, 7 years of withering austerity and incompetence allowed the recession to become a prolonged malaise.
This, I agree with. With David Milliband as leader, the Conservatives at least wouldn't have gotten a majority in 2015. Ed was shambolic.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Brown was so bad that we stuck his name in front of "Labour Party" whenever we had the chance to remind people of the administration they were supporting. He's been treated far fairer than he deserved - he was responsible for the UK being as vulnerable as it was to the financial crisis.
Which is the opposite of what should be done in the age of automation.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Depends how far you want to get into it.
If you want to be active and in power and doing things rather than just protesting them, then local politics is your starting point. That restricts the parties you can realistically consider to the top two or three in your council area. Then go have a chat with a friendly local councillor or two. Then join the party that gives the best combination of (a) policies you can stomach (b) local electability and (c) vacancies for elected office. You won't find a perfect match, but all politics is about compromise. Volunteer for absolutely everything and get your name known. Make friends early with the opposition - you'll have to work with them.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
So this caught me by surprise.
There goes the Rock's economy*, I guess.
*and the surrounding area.
Spanish conservatives and socialists making an united "Brexit means Brexit" front over... Gibraltar of all things.
There goes the Rock's economy*, I guess.
*and the surrounding area.
Given they want Gibraltar, doesn't that make sense? If the island's economy and accessibility is broken thanks to a hard Brexit, it's an incentive to give it up in exchange for a friendly voice during trade negotiations?
PdotMichael
Banned
When will the EU realize that they will collapse without the UK and give them whatever they want?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
The thing is, the Spanish population doesn't really care about Gib and the PSOE was usually non-confrontational. And the strategic importance of Gibraltar is nill, it's always been used as a political decoy. We don't actually want the rock. We already have enough territorial tensions as we are. It makes no sense to me, but here we are.
I'm not sure why the EU would have to give them anything. They are part of the UK after all.
Roberto Larcos
Member
Gibraltar should be looking for independence, honestly. They've been fucked over so unbelievably by Brexit, and in 2017, requires freedom of movement just to function. Property prices on the rock are (understandably) high, but low-skilled labour is still needed - and Spanish border checks will only become more over-zealous post-Brexit. Spanish rule isn't necessary (or wanted) by the Gibraltarian people.
For those who rebut that it couldn't possibly govern itself, I'd give the examples of San Marino and Andorra, as functioning micro-states in western Europe.
For those who rebut that it couldn't possibly govern itself, I'd give the examples of San Marino and Andorra, as functioning micro-states in western Europe.
SporeCrawler
Member
german car industry is demanding not to allow cherry picking.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtscha...ustrie-attackiert-brexit-plaene-14799147.html
how does that work with your healthcare system?
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtscha...ustrie-attackiert-brexit-plaene-14799147.html
how does that work with your healthcare system?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
That is one gut punch of a statement. I wasn't expecting the German car industry to be that blunt, to be honest. I wonder if they are counting on damaging the Japanese automakers by proxy.
German auto makers need us, but shockingly, they need the EU market a lot more.
And some people actually believed they would fight for us. Utter delusions of grandeur.
Been reading a bit from this white paper.
At some points it reads like they want leaving the single market to be a lot like being in the single market.
I still think the British government is still highly overvaluing their negotiating position and thinks they'll be able to get some miracle deal.
At some points it reads like they want leaving the single market to be a lot like being in the single market.
I still think the British government is still highly overvaluing their negotiating position and thinks they'll be able to get some miracle deal.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Gibraltar is not going anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_1967
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_2002
Both times the people of Gibraltar gave an even larger mandate to their continued status as a British Overseas territory alone (not shared sovereignty with Spain) than remaining in the EU. There's no reason to think that kind of mandate is conditional on EU access, and the EU feels it can't give an inch in negotiations.
https://www.ft.com/content/eb36b958-e878-11e6-967b-c88452263daf
Look at the bolded. The UK is many times more important to Gibraltar than Spain. There'd be a disruption, but barriers to trade with the UK would be more disruptive.
Ideas from CBC Radio (Highlights): The Causes and Consequences of Brexit: Timothy Garton Ash
https://overcast.fm/+cQt5XtQ
A bit long but it's a fantastic listen
https://overcast.fm/+cQt5XtQ
A bit long but it's a fantastic listen
They're delusional, you're right. It's either that or they think that the EU will soften when they actually get to the negotiating table but I don't see why they would.
This doesn't mean to say I think they'll intentionally attempt to sabotage the UK (there is importance in the continuing relationship) but they're obviously going to protect their interests as the UK will attempt to protect ours.
Liechtenstein is definitely a big market the UK can expect a lot of trade with.Had to laugh at this
Trade with Serbia & Montenegro is up 11%
That country dissolved in 2006
PJV3
Member
I enjoyed this quote from the EU meeting in Malta
Dalia Grybauskaitė, the Lithuanian president, offered a withering verdict on the recent meeting between Trump and Theresa May. I dont think there is a necessity for a bridge. We communicate with the Americans on Twitter, she said.
Oh dear, being Trump's desperate sidekick isn't going to go well.
Dalia Grybauskaitė, the Lithuanian president, offered a withering verdict on the recent meeting between Trump and Theresa May. I dont think there is a necessity for a bridge. We communicate with the Americans on Twitter, she said.
Oh dear, being Trump's desperate sidekick isn't going to go well.
Theonik
Member
That's the lovely thing about growth percentages. Going from £1 to £2 is like 100% growth!
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Sarcasm?
PdotMichael
Banned
May-be
RedSparrows
Member
So, this happens:
and this is the response of the Sun and the Mail:
And they say 'liberals' are the patronising shits. Fuck them. They are poison.
and this is the response of the Sun and the Mail:
The Sun @TheSun
Bizarre moment a Question Time audience member says she voted Leave because she saw a straight banana. ¯\_(ツ
And they say 'liberals' are the patronising shits. Fuck them. They are poison.
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