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[War Peaceman]

This was always how Corbyn would take things, it is stunning how shambolic the path to it has been. The people who voted for him twice need to look at themselves in the mirror for being taken in by such an incompetent person.

 

[Xun]

This was always how Corbyn would take things, it is stunning how shambolic the path to it has been. The people who voted for him twice need to look at themselves in the mirror for being taken in by such an incompetent person.

I agree with a lot of what he says, but someone like Clive Lewis is much better suited to lead the party whilst retaining the original party values.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

If Brexit wouldn't rob unwilling citizens of rights they've enjoyed since birth I would be more inclined to get behind it and 'unite'.

 

[GamingKaiju]

What JC is resigning?

Fuck yeah if true. The UK needs an effective opposition to the tories.

He is just useless, I can't understand how he's managed to stay in his position for so long. I've always thought Labour were mainly Pro-EU and his anti-EU stance made his position tenable in my eyes but I guess anti EU sentiment runs in deep no matter your political alignment or background.

 

[Burai]

What JC is resigning?

Fuck yeah if true. The UK needs an effective opposition to the tories.

He is just useless, I can't understand how he's managed to stay in his position for so long. I've always thought Labour were mainly Pro-EU and his anti-EU stance made his position tenable in my eyes but I guess anti EU sentiment runs in deep no matter your political alignment or background.

Corbyn hates the EU for the right reasons. I think he's right to want to defend the Labour heartlands from globalisation. The problem is that boat sailed 40 years ago and there's no going back now. And even if there was, the Tory Brexit we get wouldn't help either, especially as he's given them carte blanche to do whatever they want.

He's the kind of man who'd encourage someone suicidal to jump off a building just so he'd have a platform to talk about mental health. He's fucking useless.

 

[PJV3]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/11/theresa-may-hard-brexit-public-backlash-icm-poll

I think that's the first poll in a while that shows the population isn't completely insane on the issue of leaving without a deal.

 

[theaface]

Meanwhile I see David Davis is continuing to be a class act, bitching about Diane Abbott's appearance in a """jocular""" text exchange. I'm no fan of Abbott's believe me, but it would be nice to see our politicians hold themselves to a higher standard of conduct.

Spoiler

No fucking chance.

 

[EmiPrime]

But the German car manufacturing industry will save us! They will force Merkel's hand.

Oh.....

 

[2MF]

Another example of messy consequences and needed negotiations:

Will Brexit complicate landing rights for UK flights?

If the link requires subscription just google for the title and click the search result.

 

[PdotMichael]

But the German car manufacturing industry will save us! They will force Merkel's hand.

Oh.....

The German car companies would sure fucking up their important relationship to all levels of goverments in Germany just to sell a bunch of cars to the UK.

 

[Phantast2k]

Brexit: A row over money could derail Brexit talks before they have begun | The Economist

This week the House of Commons voted to approve the process of withdrawal. The prime minister, Theresa May, will invoke Article 50 of the EU treaty next month, beginning a two-year countdown to freedom.

But the triumphant mood is about to sour, for a reason few people have grasped. The first item on the agenda in Brussels, where divorce terms are to be thrashed out, will be a large demand for cash. To Britons who voted to leave the EU because they were told it would save them £350m ($440m) a week, this will come as a shock. The mooted bill is huge—some in Brussels talk of €60bn ($64bn), enough to host the London Olympics five times over—and its calculations open to endless argument. Until now the Brexit debate has focused on grander matters, such as the future of the €600bn-a-year trading relationship between Britain and the EU. Yet a row over the exit payment could derail the talks in their earliest stages.

The tab is eye-watering. Britain’s liabilities include contributions to the EU’s pension scheme, which is generous and entirely unfunded. The biggest item, which Britain will surely challenge, is the country’s share of responsibility for a multi-billion-euro collection of future projects to which the EU has committed itself but not yet allocated a budget. These liabilities, and sundry smaller ones, may be offset a little by Britain’s share of the EU’s assets, mostly property in Brussels and elsewhere around the world. By one analysis (see article), the bill could be as little as €25bn or as much as €73bn.

(...)​

 

[CraigMcD]

Doesn't take a genius to figure out how that'll be spun in the papers.

 

[Uzzy]

Doesn't take a genius to figure out how that'll be spun in the papers.

Eurocrat enemies of the people want US to pay for THEIR lavish lifestyle after we leave!

I can picture the outrage now.

 

[Phantast2k]

Doesn't take a genius to figure out how that'll be spun in the papers.

It's actually addresses in the article:

But there is a danger of hardliners in London and Brussels making compromise impossible. Some in the European Commission are too eager to make a cautionary tale of Britain's exit. And they overestimate Mrs May's ability to sell a hard deal at home. The British public is unprepared for the exit charge, which is not mentioned in the government's white paper on the talks. The pro-Brexit press, still giddy from its unexpected victory last summer, will focus both on the shockingly large total and also on the details (here's one: the average Eurocrat's pension is double Britain's average household income).​

------------

The source doesn't seem very reliable, but:

Most people in Wales think the UK will break up within a decade because of Brexit, poll finds - Wales Online

A majority of people in Wales expect the United Kingdom to break apart within a decade as a result of Brexit, according to our new poll.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgon is under pressure to demand a new independence referendum and our survey shows that only 45.3% of respondents think the UK will not have splintered within 10 years.

More than half of those in Wales who took part in the Brexit referendum in June (52.5%) wanted the UK to leave the EU. But our polling suggests that if the vote was held again a majority of Welsh people might back staying in the 28-member union.

It found that 13.2% of people who voted No now want the UK to stay in the EU. This could translate to a Remain vote of 51.3% in Wales.

The polling also shows that half of those taking part (50.2%) want a second referendum once the terms of the Brexit deal are known.

(...)

The Google survey, conducted on WalesOnline and other websites, found that 54.6% of English respondents expected the UK to break apart within a decade as a result of Brexit. This was even higher in Scotland (56%) and Northern Ireland (56.7%).

The polling suggests that if the referendum was held again there would once again be a vote to leave in England, but this would have narrowed from 53.4% to 50.2%. In Scotland, no change was predicted with 62% still wanting to stay in; in Northern Ireland the Remain vote would go up from 55.8% to 57.6%.​

I'm confused about their bias (if there is one). Also "Google survey" doesn't seem like a legit pollster to me.

/"Other websites" are for instance: Majority in UK now expect Scotland to become independent as new poll reveals post-Brexit fall-out - Daily Record

The findings of the 46,000-strong Google survey, which included website readers of the Daily Record and our sister titles in England highlight the extent of constitutional uncertainty still gripping Britain seven months after the EU referendum.

Hmm

 

[avaya]

Brexit: A row over money could derail Brexit talks before they have begun | The Economist

This week the House of Commons voted to approve the process of withdrawal. The prime minister, Theresa May, will invoke Article 50 of the EU treaty next month, beginning a two-year countdown to freedom.

But the triumphant mood is about to sour, for a reason few people have grasped. The first item on the agenda in Brussels, where divorce terms are to be thrashed out, will be a large demand for cash. To Britons who voted to leave the EU because they were told it would save them £350m ($440m) a week, this will come as a shock. The mooted bill is huge—some in Brussels talk of €60bn ($64bn), enough to host the London Olympics five times over—and its calculations open to endless argument. Until now the Brexit debate has focused on grander matters, such as the future of the €600bn-a-year trading relationship between Britain and the EU. Yet a row over the exit payment could derail the talks in their earliest stages.

The tab is eye-watering. Britain’s liabilities include contributions to the EU’s pension scheme, which is generous and entirely unfunded. The biggest item, which Britain will surely challenge, is the country’s share of responsibility for a multi-billion-euro collection of future projects to which the EU has committed itself but not yet allocated a budget. These liabilities, and sundry smaller ones, may be offset a little by Britain’s share of the EU’s assets, mostly property in Brussels and elsewhere around the world. By one analysis (see article), the bill could be as little as €25bn or as much as €73bn.

(...)​

This is going to be funny. Hopefully no Le Pen victory so we can start a full shakedown with proper Franco-German push to twist the knife. The EU should give no quarter and take no prisoners. Scorched Earth.

 

[Lucreto]

I really think another Referendum should be held on the eve of Article 50 invocation just to say are you really sure you want to do this.

It's a big step and there is no going back. It's a good 10 months from the last referendum by the time they invoke A50.

The problem with referendums is it's just a snapshot at the current mood. The mood can be completely changed in a short space of time.

If Brexit wins fair enough invoke the next day. If remain wins they still need to talk with Europe so it doesn't happen again.

 

[oti]

Sonos raising their prices.
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/2/13/14596212/sonos-uk-prices-increase-brexit

If you’re in the UK and looking to buy a Sonos speaker, you better get your order in before February 23rd. After then, prices will be rising by up to 25 percent across the company’s various product ranges, thanks to Brexit.

Sonos’ most affordable speaker, the Play:1, is increasing in price from £169 to £199; the mid-range Play:3 is going up from £259 to £299; while the top-of-the-line Play:5 used to cost £429 and will now set you back £499. The biggest increases, though, are hitting the Connect line, which allows users to hook up their existing speakers to streaming music sources, and are getting a 25 percent price bump. You can check out the full list of changes here.

Taking back control sure feels great.

 

[Chinner]

Sonos raising their prices.
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/2/13/14596212/sonos-uk-prices-increase-brexit



Taking back control sure feels great.

People will be happy to pay 25% more if it means less Muslims and non-white people.

 

[DiGiKerot]

Sonos raising their prices.
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/2/13/14596212/sonos-uk-prices-increase-brexit



Taking back control sure feels great.

I'm going to imagine most the folks voting to leave the EU aren't the sort who're buying a ton of £200 speakers.

 

[Xando]

After 47 Years, My Spanish Husband Doesn't Feel Welcome In The UK Any More

Watch the video on the bottom of the article. Just awful.

 

[anonymous_abc]

After 47 Years, My Spanish Husband Doesn't Feel Welcome In The UK Any More

Watch the video on the bottom of the article. Just awful.

Gut wrenching....

 

[Huw_Dawson]

It'll be entertaining to campaign on "the things you could have bought with the #brexitbill" when that happens. Even if it's as low as £10BN or something, that's still going to cheese off a lot of people.

 

[Number45]

I just want lots and lots of buses saying "that's xxx we can't use to fund the NHS" and maybe a long queue of well qualified working immigrants (doctors, nurses etc... you know all the kind of people we don't need over here) queuing to get out of the country.

 

[Timbuktu]

This is going to be funny. Hopefully no Le Pen victory so we can start a full shakedown with proper Franco-German push to twist the knife. The EU should give no quarter and take no prisoners. Scorched Earth.

Why exactly do you want that?

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Why exactly do you want that?

I mean, I kinda want it to happen so that no other country really considers leaving the EU, because I fear that the breakdown of the EU could potentially result in a third world war, which would be catastrophic for everyone.

Plus, I'm also bitter that I'm being forced out of the EU, and want the people who voted to leave the EU to get exactly what they voted for.

 

[sammex]

UK fishermen may not win 'waters back' after Brexit, EU memo reveals
Document obtained by the Guardian states existing quotas will remain despite promises made by leave campaigners

MEPs have drafted seven provisions to be included in Britain's ”exit agreement", including the stipulation that there will be ”no increase to the UK's share of fishing opportunities for jointly fished stocks (maintaining the existing quota distribution in UK and EU waters)".

I'm glad this is happening.

Firstly, sustainable fishing is a must no matter what and abolishing quotas for short term profits at the cost of long term ecological damage is utterly stupid. Secondly, It is estimated that there only about 11,000 people directly employed in fishing in the UK - quite a small industry actually, and given a disproportionally large voice during the brexit campaign.

 

[kmag]

UK fishermen may not win 'waters back' after Brexit, EU memo reveals
Document obtained by the Guardian states existing quotas will remain despite promises made by leave campaigners



I'm glad this is happening.

Firstly, sustainable fishing is a must no matter what and abolishing quotas for short term profits at the cost of long term ecological damage is utterly stupid. Secondly, It is estimated that there only about 11,000 people directly employed in fishing in the UK - quite a small industry actually, and given a disproportionally large voice during the brexit campaign.

Interestingly enough most of the fish landed here is exported to the EU, whereas the fish the British like to eat comes from further north (Iceland and Norway)

 

[Maledict]

To be fair, part of the argument has always been that being in the EU has destroyed our fishing industry, which is why it's so small. If we come out, it can grow back to what it was and those communities (which heavily voted leave) can get those jobs back.

Utter nonsense and lies to people in difficult circumstances, but that's why it has a larger impact than just the 11,000 people still employed in fishing.

 

[Halph n Halph]

I mean, I kinda want it to happen so that no other country really considers leaving the EU, because I fear that the breakdown of the EU could potentially result in a third world war, which would be catastrophic for everyone.

Plus, I'm also bitter that I'm being forced out of the EU, and want the people who voted to leave the EU to get exactly what they voted for.

I'm not sure that an economic catastrophe that you are hoping for will be selective about who suffers.
I would in fact suggest that the majority of leave voters are far more insulated than those who wished to remain. Many will be mortgage free , have a plump pension pot and plenty of equity .
In my opinion it's those under 30 who are going to suffer most.

 

[sammex]

To be fair, part of the argument has always been that being in the EU has destroyed our fishing industry, which is why it's so small. If we come out, it can grow back to what it was and those communities (which heavily voted leave) can get those jobs back.

Utter nonsense and lies to people in difficult circumstances, but that's why it has a larger impact than just the 11,000 people still employed in fishing.

I personally don't know a huge amount about it but even just a quick google brings results like this that show it's a complex environmental and legal issue pre-dating the EU, and that the EU has helped to halt the decline rather than hasten it.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/...or-the-decline-in-some-british-fishing-ports/

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-e...s-policy-has-helped-not-harmed-uk-fisheries-0

 

[TimmmV]

The leavers going on about EU & fishing are basically the equivalent of a child that demands to be able to eat chocolate for every meal.

The fact that it has to be explained to communities of grown adults that if you fish too much they disappear forever is mind boggling. It really isn't a hard concept to grasp

 

[JonnyDBrit]

The leavers going on about EU & fishing are basically the equivalent of a child that demands to be able to eat chocolate for every meal.

The fact that it has to be explained to communities of grown adults that if you fish too much they disappear forever is mind boggling. It really isn't a hard concept to grasp

I think it's the scale of it that proves problematic. As in, they can't imagine fish populations in the sea in any context but a vast, vast abstract, and in that abstract it becomes difficult for them to imagine that their impact - especially their individual impact - could be so great as to threaten extinction. It's kinda similar to the issue of climate change in that regard; there's a disconnect in some people's thought processes as to how it could be even possible for their actions to scale up so as to have an effect.

 

[Maledict]

I personally don't know a huge amount about it but even just a quick google brings results like this that show it's a complex environmental and legal issue pre-dating the EU, and that the EU has helped to halt the decline rather than hasten it.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/...or-the-decline-in-some-british-fishing-ports/

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-e...s-policy-has-helped-not-harmed-uk-fisheries-0

That was why I said it was lies and nonsense.. ;-)

We know it's not true, because we go look it up. But to people hurting in coastal towns, some demagogue telling them the fishing industry died because of EU regulations and Spanish fisherman using our waters is a lot easier to swallow.

 

[sammex]

That was why I said it was lies and nonsense.. ;-)

We know it's not true, because we go look it up. But to people hurting in coastal towns, some demagogue telling them the fishing industry died because of EU regulations and Spanish fisherman using our waters is a lot easier to swallow.

Ah sorry, I misread your other post. Woops!

 

[Funky Papa]

Raise your hand if you saw this coming, because I sure didn't.

Shetland Islands toy with idea of post-Brexit independence

Tavish Scott of Scotland's Liberal Democrat party, who represents Shetland in the Scottish Parliament, said he understood the desire for autonomy.

”Shetland certainly explored, and I think again will explore, what kind of constitutional future it wants," he told AFP.

But Scotland's nationalist government is keen to retain Shetland as a jewel in the economic crown of an independent Scotland.

Maree Todd, a Scottish National Party lawmaker, told AFP that the party could discuss Shetland's sovereignty, but that she believed it would be better off as part of an independent Scotland.

”Of course I think it is worth discussing," she said, adding that islanders are not ”entirely sceptical" about the prospect of Scottish independence.

”We want power to come back to Scotland, not just to Edinburgh but to the people of Scotland," she said.

My only strongly hold opinion about the Shetland Islands is that I love their gorgeous ponies.

 

[RedSparrows]

The chain of independence/anti-independence is fascinating.

We want to be free!
Us too!
Shut up smaller unit!

 

[JonnyDBrit]

The chain of independence/anti-independence is fascinating.

We want to be free!
Us too!
Shut up smaller unit*!

*That also has a decent chunk of the oil supply

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Will move to thread I guess

 

[Dougald]

Looks like Blair is back (in a fashion), and he's launched a campaign to persuade the British people to change their minds and stop Brexit

 

[Chinner]

Looks like Blair is back (in a fashion), and he's launched a campaign to persuade the British people to change their minds and stop Brexit

I really hate that we have to rely on a war criminal, but fuck, out current crop of politicians are absolutely anus.

 

[oti]

Looks like Blair is back (in a fashion), and he's launched a campaign to persuade the British people to change their minds and stop Brexit

this is a wild ride

 

[Uzzy]

Looks like Blair is back (in a fashion), and he's launched a campaign to persuade the British people to change their minds and stop Brexit

That's just going to drive support for Brexit up.

 

[Dougald]

How much pull does Blair have with the average voter these days anyway? My opinion of the man hasn't changed too much since the Iraq protests, but I was certainly in the minority then

 

[Jezbollah]

How much pull does Blair have with the average voter these days anyway? My opinion of the man hasn't changed too much since the Iraq protests, but I was certainly in the minority then

He has the usual pull for someone that hundreds of thousands want to see in prison.

 

[Number45]

Yeah, I'm not sure he has much pull - anything good that he did is long since forgotten by most and he's remembered primarily for unlawfully taking us to war. It'll be easy enough for the pro-leave people to use this to their favour I'm sure.

Still anything that pisses of IDS is worth it.

 

[Dougald]

He has the usual pull for someone that hundreds of thousands want to see in prison.

This is politics, so you're saying he could be PM again? /s

 

[Halph n Halph]

Looks like Blair is back (in a fashion), and he's launched a campaign to persuade the British people to change their minds and stop Brexit

I would change my mind if Blair wins a second referendum.

 

[*Splinter]

Ahhh the hero we deserve

Did they intentionally choose a photo where he looks like the devil incarnate?

 

[TimmmV]

That's just going to drive support for Brexit up.

Yeah, he clearly has no concept of how unpopular he is with a lot of the country.

The most useful thing he could have done for the remain side would to have campaigned to leave in the first place!

 

[theaface]

Watching Blair now. His arguments are absolutely spot on. But, as we're all too aware, people will just attack the messenger and not the message. Brexiteers will forever double down on stupid than begin to entertain the notion that they may be wrong.