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[Hasney]

I completely agree. But long term, long term - I believe in the potential to re-establish the current 'balance' we have, but just in different areas and different ways that potentially offer more than where continued membership of the EU would have taken us.

Time will tell if I'm misguided in this belief. There's no real precedent (Greenland aside), there is a hell of a lot of work to do and a lot of confusion and negotiation to work through. Vincent Cable is bang on when he calls it a messy divorce.

But. I voted as I believed was best. It's a curious feeling to be labelled a right wing scum bag, and idiot, a Racist Xenophobia for doing so, and so bizarre to see Remain supporters on here actively wishing the UK harm just so they can claim some sort of pyrhic victory.

Yeah, that's cool. We will see in our lifetimes if that was a good bet or not! Some people are going a bit far with the racist stuff, but passions are high right now and it's difficult to see past the large forefront of personalities and that big immagration in the word cloud as the reason the majority voted for Leave, but I've always got time for a sourced economic argument!

"It puts England on the globe back again"
...

I have no words.

What's wrong with that statement? It already has.

Sure, as a laughing stock, but we're back on the globe baby!!

 

[Izuna]

Okay, so the United Kingdom is like Japan in that regard, essentially. Ultimately, the UK is entitled to that sort of immigration policy if a majority of the population wishes that.

Except it won't be like Japan (where Japan has SERIOUS issues). Immigration just won't fall very much.

 

[Rodelero]

apparently, Millennials in Britain are the ones to blame for how the result turned out.

I think there's a very sinister side to this accusation, because it blames the demographic most likely to be damaged by this vote for what older generations have done. If Leave ends up being a catastrophe, the blame is FAR more appropriate for those who did vote Leave than those who didn't vote at all. If people want to aportion blame, point at David Cameron, for allowing a referendum on an issue this complex, and blame the EU for failing to give into any substantial demand.

 

[SomTervo]

So, the problems of immigration, caused by the EU, have been found out to be

1) people working in the UK
2) Tories slashing everything

Damn that EU.

EU SUX

CUASING IMGRATION

 

[GamerMax73]

That's just nuts. People working for a country's economy is now bad?

Totally agree - but then I voted remain, so go figure.

 

[Kinyou]

Another Brexit fan, Sarah Palin.....lol

How proud some people are about not listening to experts... I wonder how they interact with doctors "Don't tell me what to do!"

And seriously? UN shackles?

 

[firehawk12]

It's all just a bit 'muted'. The common feeling now among the 'Leave' people I know is one of uncertainty and 'Oh shit'. That covers older people and the in-laws (age range 61-75), and younger people and friends (age range 25-47). Almost all of them said that they never thought they would win, so voted for 'Leave'. Having had time to digest most of the reaction, I think it's sad that this is really going to impact the younger generation. The sadder thing is that all indicators point to this being avoidable had they voted.

What the fuck? lol

So is this the equivalent of something like Texas seceding from the US?

I would say it's probably closer to America cancelling NAFTA. Or somewhere in between the two.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

So the article states that the EU net immigration is stable and that "Employment is at a record high" and that they need immigration to fill specific jobs "big skills gaps that employers cannot fill domesticall".

What is your argument again?

This. Also UK net inmigration rate is like 3%

I can't believe you are crying because of 3% of inmigration....

(Spain has like 8% and we are much poorer...)

 

[geordiemp]

This is nonsense. We've had full control over non-EU immigration for all of the time that we've been in the EU. Westminster chooses not to lower it because they know that it's good for the economy.

Yes, we have full control over non-EU immigration...which is probably what props up the NHS with skilled labour

Maybe the UK government really did just overlook the issues building up with EU immigration and the image of non skiled workers in poorer parts of the UK ? I say Image as I agree with you, many UK people did not want the hard low paid jobs anyway.

Whats done is done.

 

[GSG Flash]

Unfortunately, life is not fair, nor is creating a constant double jeopardy situation every single time provincial England does something Scotland doesn't like. The referendum was supposed to be a once a generation thing. Unfortunately, you have to take the good with the bad.

The same can be said to Leave supporters who want the UK to remain intact.

They voted for something and must live with the consequences.

Scotland, in essence, voted for the status quo, both yesterday and on the independence referendum in 2014. As of yesterday, the status quo has changed to something Scotland never voted for, it is only fair to allow the Scots to hold a new referendum in light of that.

 

[Red Arremer]

But. I voted as I believed was best. It's a curious feeling to be labelled a right wing scum bag, and idiot, a Racist Xenophobia for doing so, and so bizarre to see Remain supporters on here actively wishing the UK harm just so they can claim some sort of pyrhic victory.

See though, nobody flat out called you personally a dumb racist xenophobe. Fact of the matter is, however, that immigration was the biggest reason for people to vote for Leave. Obviously, you had your own reasoning and conclusions, and I'm glad you actually educated yourself about the situation, but the vast majority of people who voted Leave didn't. And you have to accept that fact. You have to accept that someone just posted a video with interviews where people say that they voted to Leave because of "all those muslims" and because of misconceptions such as "I never voted for any of the people in Brussels". You have to accept that there's been several people who said that they didn't know what implications it would have, or that they would vote for Remaining if they had a second chance and now that they know what has happened. You have to accept that this decision has gotten Thumbs Up from the right winger populists across all of Europe and the world.

This is the company you are with. Even if you weren't concerned about immigration in the slightest (and in your initial post, you did mention that as part of why you voted for Leave, if I am correct!), the vast majority of people who voted for Leave did. Those are the ones that people are referring to when they say that ignorance and xenophobia have succeeded. Not you.

 

[Viruz]

how many jobs or hours are you doing, is this the best or nothing? why?

 

[TsunamiOfSwagger]

Ask Enoch Powell, the intellectual forefather of today's UKIP and the Brexit movement more broadly:

Enoch was, and I put this in the most polite terms possible, a vile cunt. It's his ignorance that led older generations to have this fear of foreigners.
I do have a problem with "you voted leave, you are racist" message that is seeping through, well everywhere at the moment.

 

[Hasney]

Okay, so the United Kingdom is like Japan in that regard, essentially. Ultimately, the UK is entitled to that sort of immigration policy if a majority of the population wishes that.

Of course, it's a shame it comes out of a very mis-guided place and will quickly realise that nothing is going to really change on that issue, but it's how they voted.

I was replying to someone who said it wasn't about immigrants though.

 

[iNvid02]

 

[Alligatorjandro]

I don't know why an immigrant would want to go to the UK knowing that they are not wanted there

 

[system11]

Regarding this non-racist, non-xenophobic problem with immigration. What is it? What is UK's problem with immigration that was EU's fault?

There's a problem with jobs and there's a big problem with housing - net migration with the EU was more than half the population increase last year if memory serves.

Voting leave will make little to no difference though because the only actual solution is to develop the country which has been neglected in favour of spending money on emotive issues for votes, it's not like the population will fall even if nobody else ever came here from the EU.

 

[danowat]

So at the end of day one, what's the upshot?

Financial markets stabilised? Things not looking as grim as expected?

 

[oti]

What's wrong with that statement? It already has.

Sure, as a laughing stock, but we're back on the globe baby!!

People who have no idea about how any of this works making such claims...

I sure hope for those people Britain will struck oil somewhere.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Lol, not it didn't 200,000 extra people per year in a country of 65m is nothing. Especially when the majority are students, teachers, nurses, that sort of thing.

Seriously the answer as always been the same - increase taxation and build more infrastructure. It's not rocket science - we need more houses! plain and simple. The problem won't magically go away by reducing immigration to 10,000 per year - even if that was realistically possible - which is not, otherwise non-EU immigration would already be that low, which it isn't.

Of course not but houses don't just suddenly appear either, this isn't a video game where we click the ground and houses are built in a matter of minutes. It will take years to build lots more houses, a little more control to slow down things wouldn't hurt while those homes are being built.

 

[CecilRousso]

Still can't get my head around that a descision like this was left to any kind of majority. If you want to let the people vote for an issue like this, that few people of them are able to understand the consequences of, it's really weird to let 51.8% be enough.

75%? Ok, it's clear what the people want.
60%? Pretty much even there.
55%? Well, at least it's with a respectable margin.
But 51.8%? Come on.

I've seen a lot of people say that if the remain side hade won by as little, there wouldn't have been that kind of discussion, but that would have been to keep things as they are. 51.8% should mean to remain, but not to enter the EU if that had been the voting.

 

[Uzzy]

Regarding this non-racist, non-xenophobic problem with immigration. What is it? What is UK's problem with immigration that was EU's fault?

Right. So Cameron made a pledge to reduce the levels of net migration to the UK to 100,000, claiming that mass immigration to the UK caused a large number of problems, not just putting pressure on services and housing, but reducing social cohesion because immigrants weren't integrating. This was a Big Problem, and only Cameron could bring the levels of net migration down to 100,000, if not lower.

Cameron then spectacularly failed to reduce the levels of net migration, with levels infact increasing during his time in office, due to a number of factors (an improving economy in comparison to the rest of the EU is one, but cutting nurse training levels so we have to recruit more from abroad also helped.) This destroyed any trust in the ability of politicians to control immigration at all. Mass immigration was causing all these Big Problems, and it was laughably easy for the Leave campaign to paint a picture of it being impossible to control while the UK was within the EU, thanks to freedom of movement.

 

[Jeels]

No, the most realistic outcome is that UK enters into a Norway-like model.. with or without EFTA. Free trade and movement (with controlled immigration), while basically adopting the majority of EU laws and regulations and paying into the EU, without any ability to vote. So paying even more than they already are with no say in regulation.

This will be hilariously ironic.

Condolences to all of UK Gaf. As a Pakistani American, some of the stuff being said by the Leave camp has been really scary. I always wanted to live in the UK for some time too...

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Yeah I just posted that on the last page when I seen it on my twitter. That first guy really grinded my gears. I potentially fucked the country because... Muslims.

I don't even care about trade! Muslims.

I lol'ed

I get the feeling people like him now expect all the foreigners to pick up and leave

 

[Blackthorn]

Enoch was, and I put this in the most polite terms possible, a vile cunt. It's his ignorance that led older generations to have this fear of foreigners.
I do have a problem with "you voted leave, you are racist" message that is seeping through, well everywhere at the moment.

Not every leave voter is a racist, but l can say with absolute certainty that without racism, the leave campaign wouldn't have been successful. And as I consider racism entirely intellectually illegitimate, I can't accept the intellectual legitimacy of the referendum.

 

[GamerMax73]

So is this the equivalent of something like Texas seceding from the US?

I'd have gone with California with New York as it's capital and both New York and everything north of Oakland wanting to remain

 

[sangreal]

Did... Did she really just say she wants to dissolve the U.N.?

How long before Trump picks up on this line of thought, I wonder?

That is standard republican dogma. They think the UN is coming for their guns

 

[Pandy]

While true, it doesn't change the fact that if you continue to have referendums with generous 50 percent + 1 vote wins in Scotland every few years, they will eventually vote out when they otherwise wouldn't. The 2014 vote was a once in a generation at most sort of bone thrown from Westminster. What the SNP wants is exactly like double jeopardy, essentially.

In Scotland (and many other countries) the double jeopardy rule isn't absolute, you know, because it's silly not to have a re-trial if significant new evidence comes to light.

So, yes, exactly like the double jeopardy rule.

 

[Joni]

Okay, so the United Kingdom is like Japan in that regard, essentially. Ultimately, the UK is entitled to that sort of immigration policy if a majority of the population wishes that.



Oh, the UK isn't getting a nice deal out of this, no doubt. The EU is going to make an example out of them.

No chance of a member not objecting, Spain will object in a heartbeat. There is the unresolved Catalonia and Basque Region issues there. Spain have a vested interest in keeping a unilaterally declared independent Scotland out of the EU.

Kosovo is also on the European path and it already uses the Euro. And that is with serbia being a member state. They can find a workaround for England leaving without them.

 

[geordiemp]

Did the EU prevent the UK from building more housing and improving infrastructure?

Nope, thats is the problem though. Sometimes you can just get your head around and understand the issue. UK has too many planning laws and green belt and its so expensive to build anything thats not on a flood plain....(or so it seems).

Immigration / housing / planning / greenbelts / brown belts

Rven when stuff is built UK is a nation of home owning or private land lords ready to make a buck, depriving so many of home ownership.

Politics and life...

 

[Bold One]

I'll sign that. Obviously very unlikely it would go anywhere, but I would like to hear it debated and a response to the regions that have voted to remain.

Political party potentially too.

where do I support this?

I want London seperated from the rest of the UK

Do it President Khan

 

[Audioboxer]

The same can be said to Leave supporters who want the UK to remain intact.

They voted for something and must livelive with the consequences.

Scotland, in essence, voted for the status quo, both yesterday and on the independence referendum in 2014. As of yesterday, the status quo has changed to something Scotland never voted for, it is only fair to allow the Scots to hold a new referendum in light of that.

Bingo.

I don't even know why some English give a shit if we go now. We voted so vastly different than England/Wales. You guys wouldn't like it if we decided your fate and England voted 100% different on that thing than us in Scotland.

 

[sono]

So at the end of day one, what's the upshot?

Financial markets stabilised? Things not looking as grim as expected?

Day 1 is not the issue. Day 365 is another matter.

 

[kavanf1]

Not sure if this was posted already, but:

https://twitter.com/BBCBenThompson/status/746323563561500672

Confirmed untrue, though there will be an ongoing effort to understand the impact and there are likely to be alterations to the business as a result of them.

 

[Pancake Mix]

The same can be said to Leave supporters who want the UK to remain intact.

They voted for something and must livelive with the consequences.

Scotland, in essence, voted for the status quo, both yesterday and on the independence referendum in 2014. As of yesterday, the status quo has changed to something Scotland never voted for, it is only fair to allow the Scots to hold a new referendum in light of that.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It will be interesting to see what happens, but I think that it was pretty clear that it was a once in a generation thing, regardless of England and Wales making a mistake.

 

[LoveCake]

I don't think Remain expected to lose and I don't think Leave expected to win, that's why were in this twilight zone feeling of like - fuck, what do we do now?!

A few people in my office who voted for leave now want a 2nd referendum as they think they made the wrong choice. When you bamboozle people with stats and half facts and you base your motives on scaremongering and propaganda then of course it's difficult for people to make an informed decision. As someone who went through the Indy ref not too long ago I could see this a mile off.

It's really sad, actually.

Exactly what has happened.

 

[twobear]

Yes, we have full control over non-EU immigration...which is probably what props up the NHS with skilled labour

Actually that would be EU immigration too; around 10% of NHS doctors are EU immigrants.

Also, for those of you wondering if this is the end of immigration on the national political agenda, non-EU immigration is higher than EU immigration and always has been. So no, it's not the end, it's probably just the beginning.

 

[Tacitus_]

Way to go

 

[danowat]

Day 1 is not the issue. Day 365 is another matter.

But surely it gives us a barometer for the next 355 days?

 

[wrowa]

"It puts England on the globe back again"
...

I have no words.

I like that it's not about the UK or Great Britain but England specifically.

 

[dh4niel]

I was very disappointed to hear the news this morning. I can't believe scaremongering and xenophobia won the vote.

 

[Audioboxer]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It will be interesting to see what happens, but I think that it was pretty clear that it was a once in a generation thing, regardless of England and Wales making a mistake.



We shall see. Immigration policy is going to be entirely decided by Westminster now though, that's for sure.

Because that is YOUR understanding of it?

Sturgeon has been clear on that response and the Scots put 56 out of 59 SNP MP's in Westminster. She hasn't duped us, we knew what we were voting for. Probably just didn't expect England to push us on the material change in circumstances so quickly.

And you know what thank goodness Sturgeon put it in the SNP manifesto. It's our only chance to prevent England deciding our fate.

 

[Mr. Sam]

I'm with Tucker.

I'm with Tucker and I was born in London.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

I don't know why an immigrant would want to go to the UK knowing that they are not wanted there

We still have the GOAT variety of chocolate and candy snacks in the universe.

 

[petran79]

Didnt the French president threaten the UK that he'd send all Calais immigrants there if they voted NO?

Now he's begging them....

That could be very well the case in which case the European union has achieved its goal as well in making sure that being in the union is the best way to trade with it.

As for the referendum countries that have unilaterally declared independence have been accepted in the past if no member objects. Kosovo for instance is on a member path despite serbia objecting.

Greece does not recognize Kosovo either. One reason it was replaced with Gibraltar in Greece's group in the WC2018 qualifiers. Macedonia-FYROM were also not able to enter the EU because of Greece

 

[Pancake Mix]

In Scotland (and many other countries) the double jeopardy rule isn't absolute, you know, because it's silly not to have a re-trial if significant new evidence comes to light.

So, yes, exactly like the double jeopardy rule.

You're comparing a free vote that didn't go the way you liked to new evidence? Scotland was well aware that England and Wales generally voted against Scotland long before this referendum. This isn't news...

Kosovo is also on the European path and it already uses the Euro. And that is with serbia being a member state. They can find a workaround for England leaving without them.

Serbia is not a member.....

There is no workaround. Spain will block it.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Still feel absolutely deflated at what's happened.

I just wish Brussels would have been willing to bend a little bit and at least allowed for shortterm freezes on immigration. Maybe that way Leave voters wouldn't have been so drastic.

 

[Polioliolio]

Wow. Good job conservatives. So you all want to wall off your own little burrows and war with every other peoples..

Maybe we can just round up all the conservatives of the world, their racism, their guns, and their privatized corporate loving bullshit and send them to the effin' moon.

 

[The Hamburglar]

if immigration was the biggest factor in voting leave, maybe labour should not have silenced the conversation of immigration for the last 12 years.
I took until 2010 just for politicians to start admitting that immigration was unsustainable at current levels and they literally had to say " it is OK to discuss immigration, it is not racist to discuss it".

Pretty much backfired now lol.

 

[Onemic]

I'm french with African roots and would glady leave the EU in a heartbeat : Does that make an ignorant racist xenophobic bigot ?

Things are not that simple : I bet you wouldn't said the same if some kind of obscur organization was dictating every do's and don'ts of your country beyond what the people has voted and elected people for.

Played a part doesnt mean 100% of people that voted did it for racist/xenophobic reasons.

That and you can have African roots and still vote based on xenophobia/racism. The two arent mutually exclusive at all.