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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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Hey dude, I voted CON but remain. Please refrain from broad strokes. Conservative =/= racist isolationist.

Sorry. I am generalizing based on my experience with conservatives, which in the US, are irrationally and almost comically, well, evil.

I don't know much about UK leaving the EU, but when I heard about it, I just knew it was the conservatives who would want it, and turns out it is. I wish the nations of the world were coming together more than pulling apart. Maybe this will result in a better union in the future, who knows.
 
In what way is the EU responsible for immigration into the UK? I'm not up to date with that topic. I thought they were out of the Schengen zone.

Freedom of movement of citizens between member states has nothing to do with Shengen. Shengen is the lack of physical border controls - no passport checks/visa. As an EU member we have freedom of movement to anywhere in the EU (which we will be now loosing, thanks vote leave) and the rest of the EU has the freedom to come here.
 

geordiemp

Member
So the word is that Brits working in the EU are going to be required to apply for work permits and they'll only be granted one if no qualified EU citizen is available for the job.

If thats whats agreed on both sides, or if they do quotas or some other agreement.

Seems like one end of the scale, but doubt it will be just free movement as the other end.
 

Uzzy

Member
You forgot the part where Corbyn sabotaged Remain, it's covered here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36570383

Significant fail. It's a wheelbarrow of ammunition for Leave. He even calls out the EU for ruining Greece.

Yeah, sadly Corbyn being honest equated to sabotaging the Remain campaign.

The SNP's manifesto reserved the right to call a second independence referendum in the case that there were 'significant and material changes' in circumstances regarding Scotland and the UK. Being dragged out of Europe by England when 70% of Scots voted to remain could surely not be any larger a 'significant and material change'.

That promise isn't worth the paper it's written on. Holyrood has no legal powers to call an independence referendum, it's a reserved power held by Westminster. They'd need an agreement, as they did for the last one.
 

ShogunX

Member
SilkyBoringHorsechestnutleafminer.gif
 
if the EU falls, then they can look back on themselves safe in the knowledge if they had not been tossers we would of stayed

Be careful what you wish for.

Freedom of movement of citizens between member states has nothing to do with Shengen. Shengen is the lack of physical border controls - no passport checks/visa. As an EU member we have freedom of movement to anywhere in the EU (which we will be now loosing, thanks vote leave) and the rest of the EU has the freedom to come here.

Ok. But I doubt that was the immigration that person was talking about, though. Right? Or is the issue with immigration actually EU immigrants.
 
Just saw a bunch of conservative US people on my FB celebrating and somehow using it as a slight on Obama?

This is happening at my work today. They are patting each other on the back like conservative values won the day and struck a huge blow to the liberal super government quagmire.
 

Maledict

Member
The SNP's manifesto reserved the right to call a second independence referendum in the case that there were 'significant and material changes' in circumstances regarding Scotland and the UK. Being dragged out of Europe by England when 70% of Scots voted to remain could surely not be any larger a 'significant and material change'.

Unfortunately the SNP don't have the right. Putting it in their manifesto doesn't mean anything because it's not a legal power they have. It's a decision for Westminster, and they won't grant it. I think Scotland will, for a while, be like Catelonia or other areas where they hold referendums to show support for independence, but don't actually get it from the government.

At some point they will go independent now though, unless the UK withdraws from this act of lunacy - guaranteed. But it's not as easy as just holding another referendum.
 

Crumpo

Member
Sorry. I am generalizing based on my experience with conservatives, which in the US, are irrationally and almost comically, well, evil.

I don't know much about UK leaving the EU, but when I heard about it, I just knew it was the conservatives who would want it, and turns out it is. I wish the nations of the world were coming together more than pulling apart. Maybe this will result in a better union in the future, who knows.

This one actually crosses party lines. Conservatives are generally in favour of remain (the prime minister is CON) and the far right, which usually voted CON, have a new voice in UKIP. Scary times.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Then we leave, I am sorry...tough shit to the EU....no point the EU bleating about this, Cameron asked for reform, he was offered barely anything of substance, just enough to allow him to lie his way to saying he had enough to promote remain

if the EU falls, then they can look back on themselves safe in the knowledge if they had not been tossers we would of stayed

Well no shit. "As long as things go the absolute best for us that they can, we'll show the world we are right!!!!"

No one in Leave seems interested in the question of "Oh man, what if we just fucked everything up?" What are you going to thump your chest to the world over then?
 

Grym

Member
Just saw a bunch of conservative US people on my FB celebrating and somehow using it as a slight on Obama?

1. To a conservative American literally everything is a slight on Obama
2. I actually heard someone say on the news today that Obama previously vocalized support for Remain and this is the UK telling him to fuck off (like I said everything - no matter how ridiculous and tenuously linked - revolves around Obama hate to an American conservative)
 

Blackthorn

"hello?" "this is vagina"
Unfortunately the SNP don't have the right. Putting it in their manifesto doesn't mean anything because it's not a legal power they have. It's a decision for Westminster, and they won't grant it. I think Scotland will, for a while, be like Catelonia or other areas where they hold referendums to show support for independence, but don't actually get it from the government.

At some point they will go independent now though, unless the UK withdraws from this act of lunacy - guaranteed. But it's not as easy as just holding another referendum.
It would be absurd to deny Scotland their right to withdraw from the UK after championing the UK's democratic right to withdraw from the EU.

I'm sure this is exactly what will happen, but it will be absurd.
 
For decades, the major political parties throughout the developed world have been cutting taxes, chipping away at social services and public investments, advocating privatization, deregulating finance, and generally satisfying a small number of economic ideologues and a very large number of delighted private corporations. They've allowed transnational capital to run roughshod over just about everyone and everything else — cutting them every possible deal and extending them every possible advantage at the expense of ordinary taxpayers, labor unions, education, healthcare, social welfare, you name it. Transnational capital has rewarded them by moving anything that can be done more cheaply out of the developed world, and by doing contortions to avoid paying taxes back into the countries in which they hawk their goods and services.

The justification has often been that we can't afford our old ideas about society, that we all have to tighten our belts; meanwhile, trillions of dollars languish in offshore accounts. We've been told that the complete failure to regulate financial instrumentation or the housing market was somehow our fault, that government is wasteful and corrupt, that it can't do anything, that public services are always inefficient, that the welfare state is making us all poorer, that bureaucracy is always bad for business, that equitable federalism is impossible, that losses must be public, that gains must be private, that trade between nations is a zero-sum game, that only a few people can be wealthy, and only if they work hard.

Meanwhile, the bitter legacy of colonialism, coupled with a century and half of industrialization that has demanded repeated foreign misadventures and sustained environmental devastation, has turned the parts of the world that we depend on to fuel our batshit society into a cauldron of war, suffering, and extremism. Now those brown people who used to do our bidding for pennies are coming here, often because we have ruined their homeland (directly, through war; indirectly, through climate change), and they are the problem. We simply can't afford them. No, don't crunch the numbers. Don't check our figures. Don't ask about the offshore accounts. We're telling you: They are the problem. Getting rid of these dusky foreigners will bring back the industries we gutted, the services we dismantled, and the jobs we sold. Things will be just like the old days. Promise! But to do that, we have to try some more austerity, and we have to get rid of the bureaucrats. It's the only way.

Nail, meet head. Great post.
 
Sorry. I am generalizing based on my experience with conservatives, which in the US, are irrationally and almost comically, well, evil.

I don't know much about UK leaving the EU, but when I heard about it, I just knew it was the conservatives who would want it, and turns out it is. I wish the nations of the world were coming together more than pulling apart. Maybe this will result in a better union in the future, who knows.

Try to get some perspective , Europe is not the US.

Every nation has it's own interests , US being the most suprematist of them : The world is not a fairy tale.

The President of the EU commission who has basically more power than François Hollande will ever dream of is some old money launderer from Luxembourg which is well know tax heaven who I haven't voted for.

No organization is ever going to impose quotas on my country against the will of the people on how many people they should receive annually.
 

Dabanton

Member
Point being that a lot of people out there who voted Leave were deluded by others or deluded themselves into believing there would be some sort of special dispensation. I think they're in for a very rude awakening.

To be blunt, I think the sort of people voting leave wouldn't be the sort of people who would even looking for work in europe. So they wouldn't know or even care.

A lot of these places voted on one simple issue: immigration.
 
Then we leave, I am sorry...tough shit to the EU....no point the EU bleating about this, Cameron asked for reform, he was offered barely anything of substance, just enough to allow him to lie his way to saying he had enough to promote remain

if the EU falls, then they can look back on themselves safe in the knowledge if they had not been tossers we would of stayed

The UK already had gotten so many concessions out of the EU, though. It's not like the EU has been imposing everything on the UK, quite the contrary, the UK enjoyed many liberties within the EU, and many exceptions to regulations and laws that other EU members have to adhere to.

But sure, it's definitely the EU that is to blame here.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
What the fuck? lol

Sad isn't it. The younger ones seem to lean more towards I wish I could run the vote again, while the older ones veer more towards convincing themselves they were right as the majority voted with them. More stubborn I guess.

I live in an area with quite a lot of seniors, and I'm not kidding loads had these massive yellow placards printed up saying 'Vote Leave' and 'The TRUTH: Watch Brexit the movie on Youtube' - I'm assuming it's the equivalent of Alex Jones shite but I've not watched it. Drive past today, mainly been taken down and a couple of flying the union flag. It's just proven to me how propaganda can sway the masses so easily. Astonishing stuff.

Well, it should be interesting anyway the next few months.
 
So the word is that Brits working in the EU are going to be required to apply for work permits and they'll only be granted one if no qualified EU citizen is available for the job.
It is pretty easy to employ someone via a work permit even if there are plenty of suitable candidates within your country, or the EU in this case.

And besides by the time that comes to pass they'll be able to claim they're seeking assylum from a country in decline and ruin :p
 
Ok. But I doubt that was the immigration that person was talking about, though. Right? Or is the issue with immigration actually EU immigrants.

That's were the issue gets very confused. Most people don't appear to know. Polish (EU members) appear to be the target for a lot of ire unfortunately. The key point is we can (be seemingly don't very well) control non-EU immigration. We have no control on EU immigration because it's a right granted on citizens through membership - thus vote leave.

IMHO it's all grounded, unfortunate and wrong - and I'd like to apologise on behalf of my nation.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Unfortunately the SNP don't have the right. Putting it in their manifesto doesn't mean anything because it's not a legal power they have. It's a decision for Westminster, and they won't grant it. I think Scotland will, for a while, be like Catelonia or other areas where they hold referendums to show support for independence, but don't actually get it from the government.

At some point they will go independent now though, unless the UK withdraws from this act of lunacy - guaranteed. But it's not as easy as just holding another referendum.

Well, they now have support from at least 52% of the English population, who have demonstrated their lack of support for being democratically beholden to a distant power that makes decisions with a lack of consensus from their member states.
 

Jeels

Member
1. To a conservative American literally everything is a slight on Obama
2. I actually heard someone say on the news today that Obama previously vocalized support for Remain and this is the UK telling him to fuck off (like I said everything - no matter how ridiculous and tenuously linked - revolves around Obama hate to an American conservative)

Let's not forget the pro Trump, anti immigrant, anti international cooperation fringes of the far right have a lot of overlap with the Leave voters...
 

Tak3n

Banned
The UK already had gotten so many concessions out of the EU, though. It's not like the EU has been imposing everything on the UK, quite the contrary, the UK enjoyed many liberties within the EU, and many exceptions to regulations and laws that other EU members have to adhere to.

But sure, it's definitely the EU that is to blame here.

I am not blaming them, I am saying there is no point crying over spilt milk, the UK asked and asked repeatedly for better concessions on immigration, the the EU refused to bend...

so they like us have to live with the decision
 

Ricky 7

Member
This news makes me feel so down, so sad that I live in a country with so many xenophobic bigots. English people are more concerned with building walls rather than bridges, just so disheartening.
 

lazygecko

Member
I live in an area with quite a lot of seniors, and I'm not kidding loads had these massive yellow placards printed up saying 'Vote Leave' and 'The TRUTH: Watch Brexit the movie on Youtube' - I'm assuming it's the equivalent of Alex Jones shite but I've not watched it.

Is that the one where they literally added monster roar sounds to the graphic presentation of the arrow lines illustrating immigration to UK on a map?
 

Uzzy

Member
To be blunt, I think the sort of people voting leave wouldn't be the sort of people who would even looking for work in europe. So they wouldn't know or even care.

A lot of these places voted on one simple issue: immigration.

Exactly. They don't have the skills or education or opportunities to better themselves, and so don't see any of the advantages of free movement that Europe offered. These are people and places that feel left behind by the modern world, and when given a chance to voice their frustration, took it.
 

MK_768

Member
Just saw a bunch of conservative US people on my FB celebrating and somehow using it as a slight on Obama?

Well one can point to his inaction in Syria which led to the mass migration of refugees to Europe as a way to criticize Obama. I think it is very easy to draw the connection there. Obama and Europe let Assad and Russia bomb civilians. Then ISIS blossomed and it was like a two-pronged assault on innocent people because ISIS and Assad/Russia are largely ignoring each other.
 
For decades, the major political parties throughout the developed world have been cutting taxes, chipping away at social services and public investments, advocating privatization, deregulating finance, and generally satisfying a small number of economic ideologues and a very large number of delighted private corporations. They've allowed transnational capital to run roughshod over just about everyone and everything else — cutting them every possible deal and extending them every possible advantage at the expense of ordinary taxpayers, labor unions, education, healthcare, social welfare, you name it. Transnational capital has rewarded them by moving anything that can be done more cheaply out of the developed world, and by doing contortions to avoid paying taxes back into the countries in which they hawk their goods and services.

The justification has often been that we can't afford our old ideas about society, that we all have to tighten our belts; meanwhile, trillions of dollars languish in offshore accounts. We've been told that the complete failure to regulate financial instrumentation or the housing market was somehow our fault, that government is wasteful and corrupt, that it can't do anything, that public services are always inefficient, that the welfare state is making us all poorer, that bureaucracy is always bad for business, that equitable federalism is impossible, that losses must be public, that gains must be private, that trade between nations is a zero-sum game, that only a few people can be wealthy, and only if they work hard.

Meanwhile, the bitter legacy of colonialism, coupled with a century and half of industrialization that has demanded repeated foreign misadventures and sustained environmental devastation, has turned the parts of the world that we depend on to fuel our batshit society into a cauldron of war, suffering, and extremism. Now those brown people who used to do our bidding for pennies are coming here, often because we have ruined their homeland (directly, through war; indirectly, through climate change), and they are the problem. We simply can't afford them. No, don't crunch the numbers. Don't check our figures. Don't ask about the offshore accounts. We're telling you: They are the problem. Getting rid of these dusky foreigners will bring back the industries we gutted, the services we dismantled, and the jobs we sold. Things will be just like the old days. Promise! But to do that, we have to try some more austerity, and we have to get rid of the bureaucrats. It's the only way.

One of the most on-point contributions to this forum in recent memory. Well said.
 

geordiemp

Member
The UK already had gotten so many concessions out of the EU, though. It's not like the EU has been imposing everything on the UK, quite the contrary, the UK enjoyed many liberties within the EU, and many exceptions to regulations and laws that other EU members have to adhere to.
.

I would not say a country that is one of 3 main contributors to the EU coffers could be classed as "enjoying liberties".

If we were in bar with 10 guys, and you and I bought the drinks all night, and then I asked if I could have choice of the packet of crisps left on the table....and I am told no, thats enjoying liberties.

Really ? Thats effectively what happened with teh EU negotiation, yes, UK, Germany and France should be allowed liberties, they pay for everything.,,...Nuts..

It did not go down well with UK public...
 
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