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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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EU membership allows for freedom of movement. Any EU citizen can live and work in any EU country (this is separate from Schengen which is about boarder controls). Because we have a successful economy we are a popular destination for fellow Europeans looking to improve their financial prospects.

Too many people are coming from other EU countries and living and working here. (allegedly).

Because we as a nation (nothing to do with the EU) have systematically failed to properly invest in schools, NHS and housing for decades we have a resourcing problem - too many people not enough resources.

The solution is to blame the immigrants instead of blaming the lack of investment.

Pretty good answer, although some control is now needed, as its got out of hand. A more strict immigration policy would be a good idea while the situation is sorted out, letting people continue to pile into the country is not going to solve the problem now.
 

Geist-

Member
Another Brexit fan, Sarah Palin.....lol

ClvDNHjWgAAq2AX.jpg


Why did the Republican party ever think she was Vice President material?
 

geordiemp

Member
Regarding this non-racist, non-xenophobic problem with immigration. What is it? What is UK's problem with immigration that was EU's fault?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36382199

Net migration to UK at record highs, housing shortage, and Uk parliament manifesto was to cut it down to under 100,000 per annum.

UK has no control over immigration numbers in effect. I guess If uk had 10 million new homes ready, nobody would of cared as well is my guess. Who knows ?
 
EU membership allows for freedom of movement. Any EU citizen can live and work in any EU country (this is separate from Schengen which is about boarder controls). Because we have a successful economy we are a popular destination for fellow Europeans looking to improve their financial prospects.

Too many people are coming from other EU countries and living and working here. (allegedly).

Because we as a nation (nothing to do with the EU) have systematically failed to properly invest in schools, NHS and housing for decades we have a resourcing problem - too many people not enough resources.

The solution is to blame the immigrants instead of blaming the lack of investment.

That's just nuts. People working for a country's economy is now bad?

And as many have said, the Tories seem to have basically slashed public services and blamed the EU for it.
 

bosseye

Member
Yeah, I disagree with the leave economy assessment in general just because of the overwhelming evidence from the remain side, but I think we can get close to where we were before the referendum was even called within 5 years or so... It's just that these 5 years are going to hurt before we get there.

I completely agree. But long term, long term - I believe in the potential to re-establish the current 'balance' we have, but just in different areas and different ways that potentially offer more than where continued membership of the EU would have taken us.

Time will tell if I'm misguided in this belief. There's no real precedent (Greenland aside), there is a hell of a lot of work to do and a lot of confusion and negotiation to work through. Vincent Cable is bang on when he calls it a messy divorce.

But. I voted as I believed was best. It's a curious feeling to be labelled a right wing scum bag, an idiot, a racist Xenophobe for doing so, and so bizarre to see Remain supporters on here actively wishing the UK harm just so they can claim some sort of pyrrhic victory.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36382199

Net migration to UK at record highs, housing shortage, and Uk parliament manifesto was to cut it down to under 100,000 per annum.

UK has no control over immigration numbers in effect. I guess If uk had 10 million new homes ready, nobody would of cared as well is my guess. Who knows ?

Did the EU prevent the UK from building more housing and improving infrastructure?
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
No, we said we wanted more control....a bit less EU superstate please.... we came begging for more before the election, and were told no, thats all you get, no way will you leave anyway attitude. EU just got too big.

We can all try and co exist nicely or all fight, we dont have to be in Euro or be in EU club to be friends.

sorry, but this entire line of rhetoric sounds way too pie in the sky. "we can leave and still have great terms with the EU and everyone else we had terms with in the EU." Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that's how it was sold to voters, but it's incredibly ignorant and naive.

Leaving the EU Britain loses a ton of this financial power you are citing. Yes treaties and agreements can be drawn up but those take time. Likewise UK loses a LOT of talent.. a lot of the cogs that make business work. And sure maybe those same executives and researchers/developers can obtain visas.. but we are now back to the question of "I'm being kicked out of the country I live in. Is it worth it for me to go through the hassle of now obtaining the visas needed to continue living in this country, or do I leave for any other EU country that I can easily work in?"

And as others have stated time and again, if UK gets similar or BETTER agreements with EU than they previously had, why the hell would any other country possibly stay in the EU? It would literally destroy the EU if they gave the UK favorable terms.

No, the most realistic outcome is that UK enters into a Norway-like model.. with or without EFTA. Free trade and movement (with controlled immigration), while basically adopting the majority of EU laws and regulations and paying into the EU, without any ability to vote. So paying even more than they already are with no say in regulation.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
People who voted Leave have to deal with the fact that they voted the same as the racists and bigots.

It's not our fault and it's not made up. Trump, Putin and Le Penne are on your side. That's your company.

If the majority of your voters are racists and/or xenophobics it's not our fault.

I agree. The primary issue for leave voters was immigration. You can argue that immigration is a valid issue all you want, the fact remains that for most of those leave votes immigration=xenophobia. The same can be said of Trumps immigration stance for that matter. I'm sure there are perfectly rational and accepting people in the US who will vote for Trump, but the in doing so they are voting with racists by association. Calling someone who votes for Trump a racist or xenophobe is not right, but generalizing his constituency as racists or xenophobes is not incorrect. The same can be said of those who voted to leave.
 
Are you willing to share those statements of respected economists and commentators that said it would be a good thing for the UK to leave the EU, economically and trade-wise?

Because as I see it, the UK just lost its special status within the EU and its right to give input into trade regulations it will have to adhere to anyway. It is already losing its place as an international financial center, and will do so even more in the future once monetary flow between it and the EU is going to be much more heavily regulated. It will be losing it's beneficial position within the EU's massive economic muscle and will have to solely rely on its own economy to negotiate trade deals - i.e. it will be much harder to find nations and organizations willing to hammer out agreements in the UK's favour. Underdeveloped areas of the UK will now be losing their much needed funding. Various branches of the economy, such as the science sector, will heavily decline in funds, support and thus revenue without the support of the EU.
All of this does not seem to benefit the UK economically in ANY way.

Diana Furchtgott-Roth just said the UK should leave the EU live on CNN a few minutes ago.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
UK has no control over immigration numbers in effect....

This is nonsense. We've had full control over non-EU immigration for all of the time that we've been in the EU. Westminster chooses not to lower it because they know that it's good for the economy.
 

Steel

Banned
Why did the Republican party ever think she was Vice President material?

Because she was the exact opposite of McCain and excited voters that he didn't.
At the same time, though, she turned off voters that otherwise would've been interested in McCain.
 
Does America or China abide by EU rules?

America and China don't have access to the EU single market. Norway does. That's the whole point.
If the UK wants access to the EU single market, it'll have to get in line with Norway and accept a similar deal, which is significantly worse than what they had before - not only did they have input in ALL regulations/agreements/etc., they also had many many bonus exceptions that other members did not enjoy. Now all of those extra benefits are gone.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I would agree except that promises were reneged upon. Imagine instead that the UK Parliament promised that Scotland could have 50 more members in Parliament if they voted to stay, and then after they voted they said "sorry, no deal. In fact, we're taking away 25." That is the same as the breaking of the EU promise. It's a material change, and regardless of whether it is a normal situation, I have no doubt it will result in an even stronger independence push than before. If Parliament doesn't agree to accept a new vote and public opinion in Scotland is 60% or higher, it's entirely possible they could unilaterally declare if the relationship became toxic.

This is not an everyday situation of you goverment discussing trivial matters. UK is leaving the EU, this will affect Scotland for the decades to come, they deserve the chance to ask again their citizens.

Referendum was supossed to be a once a generation thing, UK leaving EU, starts a new generation in the Scotland society.

I understand that you guys are upset, but I don't think Westminster can agree to this, and nobody will recognize a unilateral declaration from Scotland based on the SNP looking for the best opportunity possible and triggering another vote. Nobody in Better Together could have predicted that England and Wales would be crazy like this.

And the European union doesn't have to cave to the Brits. They can give them the same conditions as Norway and switzerland if they want a trade agreement

Oh come now, they won't cave to the Brits, but the UK entering Schengen is not going to happen. There will be no agreement if that demand were ever to pass.
 

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Wonder who Leave voters will scapegoat now we don't need to worry about them Muslims or Eastern Europeans.
 

kadotsu

Banned
Of course the media here is focusing on other countries leaving the EU instead of the implications this has to the UK.

Ugh.

Thinking that you are the leader of a multinational movement instead of being the irrelevant isolated asshole probably goes better with the viewership.
 

Dr.Acula

Banned
I signed that sh*t. It's not going to happen but it felt good.

I hope you actually want London independence and aren't just signing a petition for it because you want to see what happens, because there are a lot of "Leave" voters who are feeling pretty silly today.
 
Pretty good answer, although some control is now needed, as its got out of hand. A more strict immigration policy would be a good idea while the situation is sorted out, letting people continue to pile into the country is not going to solve the problem now.

Lol, not it didn't 200,000 extra people per year in a country of 65m is nothing. Especially when the majority are students, teachers, nurses, that sort of thing.

Seriously the answer as always been the same - increase taxation and build more infrastructure. It's not rocket science - we need more houses! plain and simple. The problem won't magically go away by reducing immigration to 10,000 per year - even if that was realistically possible - which is not, otherwise non-EU immigration would already be that low, which it isn't.
 

Tak3n

Banned
so the PM came out and repeatedly warned 'this is it' several times....he said one chance... so why are remain doing the petition?

Was his threats only applicable to the leave camp? now leave won does the PM's stance no longer count? it was fine for him to threaten leave voters
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36382199

Net migration to UK at record highs, housing shortage, and Uk parliament manifesto was to cut it down to under 100,000 per annum.

UK has no control over immigration numbers in effect. I guess If uk had 10 million new homes ready, nobody would of cared as well is my guess. Who knows ?

UK has total control over non-EU inmigration, what kind of foolery is this?

And housing shortage, who's fault is that? Not EU that's for sure.
 
So, the problems of immigration, caused by the EU, have been found out to be

1) people working in the UK
2) Tories slashing everything

Damn that EU.
 

Joni

Member
I understand that you guys are upset, but I don't think Westminster can agree to this, and nobody will recognize a unilateral declaration from Scotland based on the SNP looking for the best opportunity possible and triggering another vote. Nobody in Better Together could have predicted that England and Wales would be crazy like this.



Oh come now, they won't cave to the Brits, but the UK entering Schengen is not going to happen. There will be no agreement if that demand were ever to pass.
That could be very well the case in which case the European union has achieved its goal as well in making sure that being in the union is the best way to trade with it.

As for the referendum countries that have unilaterally declared independence have been accepted in the past if no member objects. Kosovo for instance is on a member path despite serbia objecting.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Immigration was literally the biggest issue of people that voted to leave.

Okay, so the United Kingdom is like Japan in that regard, essentially. Ultimately, the UK is entitled to that sort of immigration policy if a majority of the population wishes that.

That could be very well the case in which case the European union has achieved its goal as well in making sure that being in the union is the best way to trade with it.

As for the referendum countries that have unilaterally declared independence have been accepted in the past if no member objects.

Oh, the UK isn't getting a nice deal out of this, no doubt. The EU is going to make an example out of them.

No chance of a member not objecting, Spain will object in a heartbeat. There is the unresolved Catalonia and Basque Region issues there. Spain have a vested interest in keeping a unilaterally declared independent Scotland out of the EU.
 

Blackthorn

"hello?" "this is vagina"
Wonder who Leave voters will scapegoat now we don't need to worry about them Muslims or Eastern Europeans.
They'll continue to be blamed because immigration is unlikely to decrease at all. If anything it will just mean we get less EU migrants and more from outside the EU, since the jobs in shortage areas (health, education, care) need to be filled either way.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36382199

Net migration to UK at record highs, housing shortage, and Uk parliament manifesto was to cut it down to under 100,000 per annum.

UK has no control over immigration numbers in effect. I guess If uk had 10 million new homes ready, nobody would of cared as well is my guess. Who knows ?

So the article states that the EU net immigration is stable and that "Employment is at a record high" and that they need immigration to fill specific jobs "big skills gaps that employers cannot fill domesticall".

What is your argument again?
 
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