Support NeoGAF

[antonz]

Leaders? As in Farage? He wasn't officially part of the the leave campaign according to what I watched yesterday on BBC.

Farage may not be a leader in the its on the papers sense but he and UKIP are some of the largest driving forces behind this.

Others have come out an openly stated there will be no change in immigration and that they never promised such a thing.

 

[Ashes]

Brexit means London lost the European Medicine Agency too.

Fuck Boris.

 

[jufonuk]

American here so pardon my ignorance. Does this pretty much prove that we should start ignoring old conservatives(should be all conservatives) when it comes to issues that can affect an entire nation? I can definitely see something like that happening here if we continue to give Republicans control of our government.

Listen to your people . If you are in a position of power help those people or thevones you claim you are here to help will rise up against you

 

[everyday math]

"damn that EU and forcing us to adopt their pesky human rights!!"

Wow never really thought about that

 

[SporeCrawler]

What does everybody think about cameron refusing to kick off the process. Most european countries seem to want to do it asap. My personal view: having a period of uncertainty is the worst you can do. EU and UK should settle things asap and not in 2 years (which is the maximum period) but in a few month.

Core No Gos imho are the Norwegian or Swiss Modell, while german car manufacturers will love this, this will basically mean that other members may also want to leave. If Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, France all start to leave and join the norwegian modell the balance will be completely broken. Especially the freedom of services and capital must be limited otherwise UK will become a offshore tax haven that EU has no control over. EU is finally getting the grip on tax constructs like the irish with a dutch sandwich

I think the EU should aim a relationship similar to the China or US (without TTIP). The US and China are huge trade partners despite not being in a union with us.

 

[guit3457]

Yes.
However, it is easier to be so when:



And I say that fully aware that the UK pays/paid less than other rich member states (germany etc) as a % of its GDP.

I'm just pointing out that its a lot easier for a Spanish politician to show off to voters the benefits of EU membership when they don't even have to go past the pure numbers and start looking for non monetary benefits.

Of course. I'm from Galicia one of the spanish regions that have benefited the most from European funds. Thats why I don't understand that Cornwall thing

Having said that Spain should start being a net contributor to the EU budget. Poorer countries should have the same opportunities we had thanks to the EU membership (Poland being the best example)

 

[blazinglord]

P.S. Worth noting the Brexit campaign did campaign on "The EU is bad for gays", including Boris specifically.

Which is why the anyone-but-Boris remainers should be careful for what they wish for. Yes he is a clown, but he is at least socially liberal. I fear for social policies like gay rights if Theresa May wins.

I feel genuinely ashamed by the anti-immigration rhetoric because from my experience I've seen 100 vacancies but only five English applicants and only three of them made it past the first day. How the hell are we supposed to run our business without the foreign workers? Where are these hard-working English?

I reckon we will have a mixture of slight wage increases while continuing to allow cheap labour from other countries willing to do the work but with no rights to social benefits. Yes it's exploitation, but there you go. They will be at the mercy of business owners and the forces of capitalism.

 

[Conan-san]

I'll feel better about all this once Osborne is dragged out into the street and strung like the criminal he is.

And I'm not particularly bothered if that's not figurative at this point.

 

[Ashes]

I reckon we will have a mixture of slight wage increases while continuing to allow cheap labour from other countries willing to do the work but with no rights to social benefits. Yes it's exploitation, but there you go. They will be at the mercy of business owners and the forces of capitalism.

See workers rights jump right back up if Labour manage to drag their asses into government.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Actually not a bad post and sums up the leave argument very well. The problem is about half of that 4m population increase can be attributed to the net difference between native births and deaths, a natural population increase. And about 1m can be accounted for by non-EU migration.

Rather than vilify people who make a net positive contribution to our economy, maybe the real answer all along was to ease off austerity, raise taxes, and invest in our under developed resources?

Further to your point, from a quick look 440K of the 1.05 million net migration from the EU over that ten year period was from the other 14 of the EU15.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Leaders? As in Farage? He wasn't officially part of the the leave campaign according to what I watched yesterday on BBC.

Ask the voter on the ground who they think was leading the leave campaign. This attempt to sideline Farage is ridiculous. He was a significant player in the whole thing, and made certain claims that people took as truths.

There was an interview on the BBC late last night with a hairdresser where she said she voted to leave to save the NHS, to pump the money from the EU into it. She didn't just pluck that information out of thin air, she didn't just connect some dots and think if we left the EU the money would naturally go the NHS...

 

[Lightning Count]

The worst is all the leave voters regretting their decision and thinking that it wouldn't matter when they voted leave.

The tories are going to break the country down for parts and you enabled them by not voting remain.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I reckon we will have a mixture of slight wage increases while continuing to allow cheap labour from other countries willing to do the work but with no rights to social benefits. Yes it's exploitation, but there you go. They will be at the mercy of business owners and the forces of capitalism.

UK 2020 - bringing back indentured servitude.

 

[samn]

What does everybody think about cameron refusing to kick off the process. Most european countries seem to want to do it asap. My personal view: having a period of uncertainty is the worst you can do. EU and UK should settle things asap and not in 2 years (which is the maximum period) but in a few month.

Core No Gos imho are the Norwegian or Swiss Modell, while german car manufacturers will love this, this will basically mean that other members may also want to leave. If Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, France all start to leave and join the norwegian modell the balance will be completely broken. Especially the freedom of services and capital must be limited otherwise UK will become a offshore tax haven that EU has no control over. EU is finally getting the grip on tax constructs like the irish with a dutch sandwich

I think the EU should aim a relationship similar to the China or US (without TTIP). The US and China are huge trade partners despite not being in a union with us.

I believe that Boris Johnson intends never to invoke Article 50. He didn't expect for Leave to actually win, so now he's going to keep playing for time and fudge some other deal with the EU that doesn't actually involve a full exit and hold another referendum. As long as he ultimately gets to beat his rivals in the party and play Prime Minister he honestly doesn't give two shits about the damage he causes, this has all just been a game to him. What an utterly vile man

 

[GamerMax73]

Further to your point, from a quick look 440K of the 1.05 million net migration from the EU over that ten year period was from the other 14 of the EU15.

I'm not going off in search of figures, but I'm sure it gets even more interesting when you break down the numbers by things like - refugees, super-rich, media/sports stars, teachers, nhs staff, students. You're left wondering exactly who it is that's coming over here taking all our low paid unskilled jobs...

 

[Jezbollah]

What does everybody think about cameron refusing to kick off the process. Most european countries seem to want to do it asap. My personal view: having a period of uncertainty is the worst you can do. EU and UK should settle things asap and not in 2 years (which is the maximum period) but in a few month.

I think Cameron has done the right thing by not executing Article 50 - as that puts all negotiations on an automatic two year timer. These negotiations will take a long time due to complexity - better to get them right first time rather than hurry it.

 

[Lime]

I reckon we will have a mixture of slight wage increases while continuing to allow cheap labour from other countries willing to do the work but with no rights to social benefits. Yes it's exploitation, but there you go. They will be at the mercy of business owners and the forces of capitalism.

Don't forget the harassment and terrorism these "immigrant workers" will receive for taking the jobs of White British people and not being able to speak British English

But at least they won't be called Welfare Queens any longer.

 

[phisheep]

What does everybody think about cameron refusing to kick off the process. Most european countries seem to want to do it asap. My personal view: having a period of uncertainty is the worst you can do. EU and UK should settle things asap and not in 2 years (which is the maximum period) but in a few month.

I think (as I posted during the campaign period) that delaying is exactly the right thing to do.

There is so much political turmoil now as a result of the referendum, with the traditional voting base of both the major parties ripped in two, with the probability that no person now commands the confidence of the House of Commons, with the certainty of one party leader going and the probability of another - that we are in no position to give a negotiating team a mandate. Or perhaps even to appoint a negotiating team.

There has to be some political stuff happen in the UK first.

(I hope to post at more length on the UK political fallout either this evening or tomorrow, but it is all rather messy).

 

[oti]

I'm starting to wonder what all those European far-right parties actually want to do if they achieve their goal of leaving the EU. What's the plan here? Rewrite the rules of trade because that sure would work in your favour? Launch your own currency and just print it whenever you feel like it to kickstart a hyper deflation? Close your borders? Even if you did all of that, how long do you think it would take for even the biggest idiots to understand their mistakes?

 

[Lime]

Wow never really thought about that

Don't think Leavers did either.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I believe that Boris Johnson intends never to invoke Article 50.

The way he was talking yesterday, I can understand why someone would feel that way, but it will happen eventually. If not by him, by Gove or May. Oh God, there's a real possibility that May could be the next Prime Minister.

I only just realised that's a real possibility now. Fuck.

As for Johnson, you could say he pivoted...I suspect because he didn't realise people would be outside his house calling him all sorts and booing him. It's the same with Osbourne at the Olympics, its almost as if they do genuinely live in bubbles and don't realise how much anger/hate there is out there for them.

 

[phisheep]

I wonder if our departing MEPs will still claim the right to their gold-plated Euro pensions?

Bet they will. Especially the UKIP ones.

 

[samn]

The way he was talking yesterday, I can understand why someone would feel that way, but it will happen eventually. If not by him, by Gove or May. Oh God, there's a real possibility that May could be the next Prime Minister.

I only just realised that's a real possibility now. Fuck.

As for Johnson, you could say he pivoted...I suspect because he didn't realise people would be outside his house calling him all sorts and booing him. It's the same with Osbourne at the Olympics, its almost as if they do genuinely live in bubbles and don't realise how much anger/hate there is out there for them.

Public shaming will have absolutely no effect on a creature like Johnson.

 

[Phyranion]

A lot of you seem to think this is a bad move. Why? Also, are you American?

 

[Vagabundo]

Who will the daily rags blame now without immigrants and the EU?

 

[Lime]

I'm starting to wonder what all those European far-right parties actually want to do if they achieve their goal of leaving the EU. What's the plan here? Rewrite the rules of trade because that sure would work in your favour? Launch your own currency and just print it whenever you feel like it to kickstart a hyper deflation? Close your borders? Even if you did all of that, how long do you think it would take for even the biggest idiots to understand their mistakes?

The plan is and has always been an irrational hatred of The Other. They don't care about economic aspects, as seen in their allyship with neo-liberal and fiscally conservative parties.

What they care about are the moral and cultural aspects of ideology - race, ethnicity, gender, language, etc. They want an impossible past where only White English Masculine Heterosexual Men existed. They resent anyone not fitting that mold and the complexities of the world are intentionally disregarded to the point of an immature child.

Just look at the refugee situation and how they want to handle it. There's no realpolitik, only blissful ideology, no matter the consequences and damages. Look no further than this blissful bullshit than this election where people actively hurt themselves and each other due to irrational fear of The Other.

 

[Polari]

"damn that EU and forcing us to adopt their pesky human rights!!"

Ridiculous scaremongering. It wasn't the EU that passed the gay marriage bill.

 

[Izuna]

A lot of you seem to think this is a bad move. Why? Also, are you American?

you can literally google the term brexit and all the fears is in your face

Ridiculous scaremongering. It wasn't the EU that passed the gay marriage bill.

Reread the tweet... it isn't scaremongering.

There are human/worker's rights related bills that the UK will need to re-pass/do, and we can't exactly trust the most right wing parliament we've had in many years to give us what we already had.

 

[Lime]

Who will the daily rags blame now without immigrants and the EU?

Arent' there some brown people in the UK? Maybe some poor people and LGBT people as well

Ridiculous scaremongering. It wasn't the EU that passed the gay marriage bill.

Read the tweet again. "outside of marriage" and read Stump's post:

Yes it's true that the United Kingdom was the 16th country in the world to adopt same-sex marriage under a joint left-right coalition government because it was pushed by the left part of the left-right coalition in a vote that the entire Conservative backbench opposed and the UKIP strongly opposed. I guess my point is that when it comes to the Conservatives, even if you put lipstick on the pig, it's still a pig.

I agree that it is unlikely that a democratic government in a country with same-sex marriage would move to remove same-sex marriage, but as the very wise people arguing for Brexit have correctly pointed out over the last 24 hours, it actually doesn't matter if someone's fears are real or not, we should listen to them anyway and treat them like they are.

P.S. Worth noting the Brexit campaign did campaign on "The EU is bad for gays", including Boris specifically.

It's not scaremongering, it's your reality.

 

[samn]

Ridiculous scaremongering. It wasn't the EU that passed the gay marriage bill.

No, it was David Cameron in defiance of the right wing of his party. The wing that have just won a crushing victory against him.

 

[Ashes]

Who will the daily rags blame now without immigrants and the EU?

Same as the daily rags in most places. Muslims.

 

[oti]

Wow never really thought about that

Now the question is how transparent will those negotiations be. You can't just tell the public everything but what if after all is said and done the people of the UK wake up to far less rights?

I think Cameron has done the right thing by not executing Article 50 - as that puts all negotiations on an automatic two year timer. These negotiations will take a long time due to complexity - better to get them right first time rather than hurry it.

That's not how it works. The negotiations won't implode once two years past. Both parties can agree to postpone the countdown. Plus, not executing Article 50 immediately is the worst thing you can do regarding the market. The market wants clarity. And also what if there's a crisis happening in a month and there needs to be a vote? Does UK have a say in said vote? They could just block everything, why should they care about the EU anymore?

 

[jufonuk]

So now we are going to look back on cameron with rise tinted views right up until the part he decided to leave ?

 

[Jezbollah]

Ridiculous scaremongering. It wasn't the EU that passed the gay marriage bill.

Pretty much. The majority of Tory MPs voted Remain. Those same Tories would block any anti-LGBT laws attempted to be passed by those "far right"

That's not how it works. The negotiations won't implode once two years past. Both parties can agree to postpone the countdown. Plus, not executing Article 50 immediately is the worse thing you can do regarding the market. The market wants clarity. And also what if there's a crisis happening in a month and there needs to be a vote? Does UK have a say in sad vote? They could just block everything, why should they care about the EU anymore?

executing A50 is negotiation suicide - it gives EU all the power in any negotiation. They need no goodwill in these conversations if a clock is running. There's no way they would agree to postpone the countdown. I know I wouldnt if I was in their position.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I believe that Boris Johnson intends never to invoke Article 50. He didn't expect for Leave to actually win, so now he's going to keep playing for time and fudge some other deal with the EU that doesn't actually involve a full exit and hold another referendum. As long as he ultimately gets to beat his rivals in the party and play Prime Minister he honestly doesn't give two shits about the damage he causes, this has all just been a game to him. What an utterly vile man

Lol what? is this democracy?

 

[Vagabundo]

I wonder if our departing MEPs will still claim the right to their gold-plated Euro pensions?

Bet they will. Especially the UKIP ones.

Wouldn't be wonderful if those pensions were revoked. I wonder if there is a legal basis for it.

 

[Lime]

A lot of you seem to think this is a bad move. Why? Also, are you American?

- Severe economic negative impact on the economy
- Legitimizing far-right sentiments
- Fueling racism across the country and in other EU nations
- The UK is in a worse position than before
- Loss of jobs and EU funding
- Loss of science, education, and public health cooperation between EU nations
- The UK has to start all over with their trade agreements

Plus a whole host of other things you should be scared of.

This is objectively a bad move by all accounts. The world and the UK especially have become a worse place to be in after the vote.

All because of something that has absolutely zero to do with the British people's grievances. It's an incredibly big, bad joke and no one is laughing

 

[danowat]

Who will the daily rags blame now without immigrants and the EU?

Those on benefits and single mothers, just like the good old days.

 

[phisheep]

That's not how it works. The negotiations won't implode once two years past. Both parties can agree to postpone the countdown. Plus, not executing Article 50 immediately is the worse thing you can do regarding the market. The market wants clarity. And also what if there's a crisis happening in a month and there needs to be a vote? Does UK have a say in said vote? They could just block everything, why should they care about the EU anymore?

But the EU side can only postpone the deadline by unanimity among the remaining member states. That unanimity will come at a price.

It is in the best interests of the EU to have article 50 invoked as soon as possible because it gives them an advantage in negotiations. It is in the best interests of the UK to delay until we are good and ready.

 

[samn]

Lol what? is this democracy?

The referendum wasn't legally binding. It was a glorified opinion poll, in legal terms. We must now do all we can to make sure it is never acted upon.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

Invoke Article 50 sounds like some Steven Seagal shit

 

[Vagabundo]

It would be hilarious if the Germans go ahead and invoke Article 50 aqnd the UK challenges it in the EU court.

Arent' there some brown people in the UK? Maybe some poor people and LGBT people as well
.

Same as the daily rags in most places. Muslims.

Those on benefits and single mothers, just like the good old days.

Depressingly true.

 

[phisheep]

Wouldn't be wonderful if those pensions were revoked. I wonder if there is a legal basis for it.

I've just checked. there doesn't seem to be any basis for revoking them, but then they never expected anyone to leave either.

It would not play well in the EU to continue paying pensions to a country that secedes.

 

[Mikeside]

From what I understand there's basically one chance to undo this. If, when Cameron steps down and we have a new Tory leader, they continue negotiations with Brussels, we may be able to get some kind of 11th hour deal & with that on the table they can call a general election with that as a key point, or at least another referendum to make one last pitch at not leaving the EU.


Am I dreaming, GAF? There's no hope of this happening, is there?

 

[LordRaptor]

I wonder if our departing MEPs will still claim the right to their gold-plated Euro pensions?

Bet they will. Especially the UKIP ones.

Of course they will, they get to have their cake and eat it.
Every perk they can grab while not actually doing their job they get to point at and say "look, look how stupid and corrupt the EU is, look how right I was - I just made this much money by doing fuck all!"

 

[SMG]

Complicated question, if I leave the UK to live in a Eu nation soon will I get to stay there after the leave is official?

 

[Izuna]

Where are the Leave campaigners telling us to invoke Article 50 asap? Isn't that what they should be calling for? The voters even?

Or is it just going to be a couple of years of the misinformed and bigoted telling anyone who doesn't look or sound English to go back to their country?

#takebackcontrol

 

[AnathemicOne]

The referendum wasn't legally binding. It was a glorified opinion poll, in legal terms. We must now do all we can to make sure it is never acted upon.

I don't see Cameron retracting his statement of resignation, as bullshit as it may seem, the referendum will be carried out I predict.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I think Cameron has done the right thing by not executing Article 50 - as that puts all negotiations on an automatic two year timer. These negotiations will take a long time due to complexity - better to get them right first time rather than hurry it.

The europeans see it differently they want UK out ASAP
EU may also just dissolve and be established again without UK (what many people forget is that this happened a few times the last time with the treaty of lissabon)
The rest of the EU sems to want to change the EU anyways (closer union)

I think (as I posted during the campaign period) that delaying is exactly the right thing to do.

There is so much political turmoil now as a result of the referendum, with the traditional voting base of both the major parties ripped in two, with the probability that no person now commands the confidence of the House of Commons, with the certainty of one party leader going and the probability of another - that we are in no position to give a negotiating team a mandate. Or perhaps even to appoint a negotiating team.

There has to be some political stuff happen in the UK first.

(I hope to post at more length on the UK political fallout either this evening or tomorrow, but it is all rather messy).

UK is not the only one effected here. I dont care if the UK has internal turmoil. The rest of EU wants a clear situation ASAP. I find it funny how you think that the UK is the only relevant party here.

Complicated question, if I leave the UK to live in a Eu nation soon will I get to stay there after the leave is official?

Youll most likely need a visa like any other alien. Conditions may vary

 

[Lucumo]

Slept for like 13 hours after being awake for 30+. Did anything new happen, apart from more people coming out and saying they are stupid?