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[Mr Cola]

Yeah. English born. Don't feel like I belong here anymore though.



Yeah. 2/3 years is a long time to get some headway. I'm also lucky that I'm in a decent paying job, at least for now. I just got to work and save and do as much as I can to increase my skillset. Doesn't change how shit this all feels atm though.

Ill say this, what motivated my brother was watching his friend die on a sports field while they were both playing, the mental shift was unbelievable, he knew he had to change or it was just going to be how it was the week before and the week before that and maybe he, like his friend, would get unlucky one day and run out of time before he even tried.

This could be a whole lot worse, we could be leaving in 4 months and then options would be severely limited in regards to emigration, but 2 years, I honestly believe the vast majority of people could work there way around it in 2 years and very very motivated people can do it in less.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

You can work anywhere in the world, Australia, Asia, US, Europe. Really doesn't matter whether we are in the EU or not. Don't let EU freedom of movement rules blind you to the opportunities in the rest of the world. A British passport can be a passport to the world.

Let's hope so.

 

[pigeon]

Labour, who used to be the party of the working class, is now run by a metropolitan middle class. They care more about intelectual left wing issues such as Palestine and Syrian Asylum seekers, rather than the lives of the working class voters who elected them to represent them. But that's fine, their Northern bases will never vote Tory, so they can just parachute in one of their left wing Islington coffee slurping intelectuals to a safe northern seat. These people would vote for a cow as long as it had a red rossette on it afterall.

The local working class, without a pay rise in years, and struggling to find homes for their children after an influx of Eastern European workers to their community mention their problems to a Labour man when she happens to chance on him. He politely smiles, and gets back into his car, calling her a bigot, forgetting that his microphone was still broadcasting live.

He apologises, and says that Labour has to listen to it's working class support base. Rinse and repeat for the next few years until another middle class left wing intelectual coffee slurper happens upon a working class estate in the South East of England. Oh look, a council house with England flags hanging out of the window, and a white van in the driveway, how stereotypical! Let me tweet a picture of "the view from Rochester".

She apologises, and they get a new leader .... the working class son of a coal miner ... I joke, of course not. The Islington coffee slurping left wing intelectual Jeremy Corbyn, who says that there should be no upper limit on immigration.

For some reason the working classes voted to leave the EU .... racists!

The elitism of anti-elitism is really staggering in this post.

 

[Krejlooc]

Brexit is literally sarah palin endorsed. LMFAO you fucked up so badly Britain.

 

[Tak3n]

Yes but the people calling racist Leave voters racists are actually the real racists. Maybe if they weren't so mean and kept hurting the feelings of racists this wouldn't have happened.

I am going to tweet Donald Trump that we have a school with 73% Muslims. He is going to have a coronary. And the world will thank me

 

[BKK]

The elitism of anti-elitism is really staggering in this post.

Right or wrong, it's how many working class former Labour voters feel.

 

[Krejlooc]

She probably has no idea what an EU or UK is. Probably heard Obama was against leaving something so naturally she was for leaving.

I remember reading that when McCain chose her to be his running mate, his advisors quizzed her and she did so astonishingly poorly that she literally had no idea what the federal reserve was. She was that ignorant of her own country, of course she has no fucking clue what the UK is.

 

[Zelias]

Yes but the people calling racist Leave voters racists are actually the real racists. Maybe if they weren't so mean and kept hurting the feelings of racists this wouldn't have happened.

Indeed. Won't somebody think of the racists?

 

[Arksy]

Yeah. English born. Don't feel like I belong here anymore though.

Then you are British, and don't let any fuckwit tell you otherwise. You have every single right to be in the country, regardless of what anyone says. Your right to stay is absolute.

 

[QuantumZebra]

You can work anywhere in the world, Australia, Asia, US, Europe. Really doesn't matter whether we are in the EU or not. Don't let EU freedom of movement rules blind you to the opportunities in the rest of the world. A British passport can be a passport to the world.

That's called visiting a foreign country - and is nothing like the movement of labor in the EU.

As an American viewing all this from the outside, your posts strike me as someone trying to rationalize something incredibly irrational (leaving the EU for seemingly no reason other than "take our country back!").

When US leaders like Trump and Palin are cheerleading something, its safe to say that the sane person would want the opposite.

 

[Cromwell]

The elitism of anti-elitism is really staggering in this post.

 

[Solaire of Astora]

You can work anywhere in the world, Australia, Asia, US, Europe. Really doesn't matter whether we are in the EU or not. Don't let EU freedom of movement rules blind you to the opportunities in the rest of the world. A British passport can be a passport to the world.

Mind if I ask if you've ever worked overseas before? Speaking as a scot who obtained a temporary visa in Canada and now lives and works in Japan, I have to say you're vastly downplaying the difficulty involved in doing so. Every country has very different, but very strict requirements for immigrants wishing to live/work there. And aside from a few agreements between nations that are in place to allow people to obtain limited temporary visas, a British passport does not entitle you to easy permanent residence anywhere.

 

[Z3K]

Yeah. English born. Don't feel like I belong here anymore though.



Yeah. 2/3 years is a long time to get some headway. I'm also lucky that I'm in a decent paying job, at least for now. I just got to work and save and do as much as I can to increase my skillset. Doesn't change how shit this all feels atm though.

Don't let those feelings get the better of you, there's racism and bigotry everywhere and as a minority myself I feel most safe and welcome here in the UK than anywhere else in the world.

 

[BKK]

Despite what you may read some places, the referendum had very little to do with race. The main issue was immigration of white Europeans. As the UK isn't in the Shengen Zone it has largely avoided the influx of refugees from non-European countries. In fact, some of the biggest leave voting towns and cities were ones with large ethnic Asian populations. It was divided more along class lines than race.

 

[jellies_two]

Yeah. English born. Don't feel like I belong here anymore though..

If you were happy before because of how you fitted in it is hard to see why that would change other than your internal mental state: it isn't like the minority of true racists that were there before have now been given new license or are going to increase in number. If anything the majority may be more conscious of not letting the assholes be assholes. Either way it might be better to wait until you actually experience any change before concluding anything has changed. Heaps of people from all countries live and work in Australia or USA or Canada without feeling unwelcome and the UK is more international in many cities than those countries: nobody waved a wand and introduced Britain in the 60s.

 

[Drek]

You can work anywhere in the world, Australia, Asia, US, Europe. Really doesn't matter whether we are in the EU or not. Don't let EU freedom of movement rules blind you to the opportunities in the rest of the world. A British passport can be a passport to the world.

Claiming someone can work anywhere in the world, off of a British passport, while supporting a measure to prevent people from other nationalities from working in Britain.

Not making a ton of sense here bud, but that seems to be par for the course as a "Leave" voter. You think you deserve to have your cake and eat it too. Special preference from everyone for the UK but the UK shouldn't have to reciprocate in any fashion.

The EU gave you as much of a special dispensation as you were ever going to get. It all goes downhill from here.

 

[BKK]

Mind if I ask if you've ever worked overseas before? Speaking as a scot who obtained a temporary visa in Canada and now lives and works in Japan, I have to say you're vastly downplaying the difficulty involved in doing so. Every country has very different, but very strict requirements for immigrants wishing to live/work there. And aside from a few agreements between nations that are in place to allow people to obtain limited temporary visas, a British passport does not entitle you to easy permanent residence anywhere.

Permanent residancy is another matter altogether, but whilst getting a work permit is a bit bureaucratic, it's not that big of a deal if you want to do things legally. I lived in South East Asia for over ten years, and have also worked in Australia.

 

[danm999]

Having a British passport doesn't entitle you to jack shit in Australia in terms of a work visa. Why spread misinformation? You're no better off than before leaving the EU.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Is that Diamond Joe essentially grabbing Paul Ryan's arm like "don't point at me, slug-boy"?

Having a British passport doesn't entitle you to jack shit in Australia in terms of a work visa. Why spread misinformation? You're no better off than before leaving the EU.

BKK appears to be trying very hard to convince people (or her/himself) that this vote wasn't a catastrophe. Making things up seems to be a part of the menu.

 

[Measley]

WTF is she even talking about? How the hell is a Brexit going to happen in the US?

Are the blue states going to secede if Trump gets elected? I suppose that's a possibility.

 

[jellies_two]

Claiming someone can work anywhere in the world, off of a British passport, while supporting a measure to prevent people from other nationalities from working in Britain.
.

He has as much right and access to work anywhere on the non EU world as his twin in any other non EU country had access last year or next year. Every country has different rules and barriers to enter and the EU has barriers too that's why there are fences and refugee camps and the U.K. has barriers across the entrance to the Chunnel.
It's honestly hard to parse what you are trying to say it sounds like some kind of punishment idea. The world should punish English passports for their decision in order to perhaps change things back.

 

[BKK]

Claiming someone can work anywhere in the world, off of a British passport, while supporting a measure to prevent people from other nationalities from working in Britain.

Not making a ton of sense here bud, but that seems to be par for the course as a "Leave" voter. You think you deserve to have your cake and eat it too. Special preference from everyone for the UK but the UK shouldn't have to reciprocate in any fashion.

The EU gave you as much of a special dispensation as you were ever going to get. It all goes downhill from here.

Not at all, a work permit will be required for people to work in the UK, and for UK people to work in Europe. Yes, it will be more bureaucratic, and I would prefer if it wasn't necessary. Immigration/migration generally balanced out when it was between countries of roughly the same level of economy, but when the disparity is so great it doesn't level out.

 

[BKK]

Having a British passport doesn't entitle you to jack shit in Australia in terms of a work visa. Why spread misinformation? You're no better off than before leaving the EU.

That depends on your age, you can work for a limited amount of time if you're under 30. Lots of people just work cash in hand there anyway, not that I condone that.

 

[jellies_two]

Having a British passport doesn't entitle you to jack shit in Australia in terms of a work visa. Why spread misinformation? You're no better off than before leaving the EU.

It actually does. Two year working holiday visas are very common and easier to obtain off a British passport as it is one of about 10 major countries on a list. Despite what Australia might admit it is also easier to get approved for various other visas with a uk passport due to the old colonial connections. Migration in various forms from the uk is a well trodden trail.

 

[rjinaz]

WTF is she even talking about? How the hell is a Brexit going to happen in the US?

Are the blue states going to secede if Trump gets elected? I suppose that's a possibility.

Somebody must have told her this is really about getting rid of immigrants. Probably Trump's team prepping her for her cabinet position or VP run.

 

[danm999]

That depends on your age, you can work for a limited amount of time if you're under 30. Lots of people just work cash in hand there anyway, not that I condone that.

It actually does. Two year working holiday visas are very common and easier to obtain off a British passport as it is one of about 10 major countries on a list. Despite what Australia might admit it is also easier to get approved for various other visas with a uk passport due to the old colonial connections. Migration in various forms from the uk is a well trodden trail.

None of which is predicated on holding a British passport. There are visas for this for dozens of countries including China, the USA, Turkey, Spain etc.

 

[gutter_trash]

WTF is she even talking about? How the hell is a Brexit going to happen in the US?

Are the blue states going to secede if Trump gets elected? I suppose that's a possibility.

Alaskexit

Russia, take it back!

 

[BKK]

BKK appears to be trying very hard to convince people (or her/himself) that this vote wasn't a catastrophe. Making things up seems to be a part of the menu.

I voted leave, so obviously I don't believe that it will be a catastrophe. Yes, it will be more difficult to work in Europe, but no more than for Americans/ Australians. That's unfortunate, but not the end of the world.

What am I making up? I've been highly critical of both sides during the campaign, most of it was hyperbole on both sides. I personally don't believe that a vote either way would have been catastrophic. If I'm calming things down on one side it's only because that's the side which is most concerned due to the way the vote went.

 

[Bold One]

only managed 2 hours sleep, still trying to come to terms with National and generational sepukku.

Been binge-watching South Park, its helping.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

So have yall seen this. Hates already moving up

http://2goldensnitches.tumblr.com/post/146424995631/vashtijoy-eighteen-hours-later-hate-gets-its

Absolutely fucking disgusting!

The thing is its only going to get worse too, considering a lot of people probably don't realise that it's going to take a long time to actually get us out so resentment is going to build up.

I woke up this morning and forgot all this had happened, once I remembered it hit me all over again. So ashamed and angry at this country!

Would love to move but don't know how sustainable that would be now, Amsterdam would probably be the place me and the wife would go but we don't speak the language and I know for work it's advised you can speak it (even though everyone speaks English).

 

[BKK]

None of which is predicated on holding a British passport. There are visas for this for dozens of countries including China, the USA, Turkey, Spain etc.

I didn't say it was predicated on holding a British passport, just that a British passport allowed you to do such things. Another example Hong Kong gives 180 days on arival to UK passport holders. For other European countries just 90 days. British passport really is one of the best to have for worldwide travel/work.

 

[Aki-at]

I'm sort of scratching my head here a bit.

People are encouraging a person to up and move to other parts of the world without addressing the fact we have a minority feeling very valuable at this point and time about how he is going to be treated long term in the UK.

Does no one find this problematic and worrying we are even here? Are the best suggestions is move out and work in other, more inclusive places?

 

[danm999]

I didn't say it was predicated on holding a British passport, just that a British passport allowed you to do such things. Another example Hong Kong gives 180 days on arival to UK passport holders. For other European countries just 90 days. British passport really is one of the best to have for worldwide travel/work.

As does a Dutch, German, Japanese, French, Italian, Danish, Canadian, Taiwanese passport to name a few. There's no special arrangement for the British in Australia.

I guess you could take solace in the fact it hasn't gone backwards since yesterday in those countries, but it undeniably has less utility to world travel than it did yesterday.

 

[jellies_two]

None of which is predicated on holding a British passport. There are visas for this for dozens of countries including China, the USA, Turkey, Spain etc.

Incorrect ("dozens") the two year working holiday visa is a special deal with a short list including UK and big euro countries. There are other options for "the rest of the world", but it's no coincidence that most working young visa holders here are from the short list of countries where individual agreements were negotiated:

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

If you were happy before because of how you fitted in it is hard to see why that would change other than your internal mental state: it isn't like the minority of true racists that were there before have now been given new license or are going to increase in number. If anything the majority may be more conscious of not letting the assholes be assholes. Either way it might be better to wait until you actually experience any change before concluding anything has changed. Heaps of people from all countries live and work in Australia or USA or Canada without feeling unwelcome and the UK is more international in many cities than those countries: nobody waved a wand and introduced Britain in the 60s.

I wasn't exactly happy before honestly. Been feeling that this country's leadership has been actively and overtly been trying to cripple the working class/poor for over a decade. In that I can sympthaise with leave voters, especially people like BKK above.

But now I feel like the people who I should naturally have solidarity with are showing that given the chance they would would want me crippled too.

I understand that for some leave voters, it was never about immigration, "taking back their country" or even simply rebelling against their government. It was just simply about making their voices heard and being allowed at the seat at the table.

But this was the most reckless and destructive way of doing things. If leave is as much about voter disillusionment and feeling disenfranchised by the major political parties, where was their moblization at the last election? If labour really has lost touch with the working class, why hasn't a new party formed that specifically represents the needs and interest of that group?

Why did people feel falling with in the racists and the extreme right wing was a much better option?

That's why I feel this vote was a big "fuck you" to minorities as well. UKIP, at least what we see as UKIP has only really existed over the past 10 years. In that same time, we could of seen the growth of a party that represented the working class and vowed to fight the real reasons for their disenfranchisment :- lack of investment in education, infrastructure, workers rights, housing, the NHS and other issues specific to the working class.

But nobody cared enough and the the few isolated parties that do exist are so irrelevant, their names aren't even put on official ballots.

People on some level clearly prefer the narrative that 'it's the scary brown peoples fault, vote to make them go away". It's cleaner, simplier and sexier. You can use all the arguments you want that this was more complicated than that, but the fact remains that 17.6 million people would rather use a tactical nuke than a scapel to perform surgery.

You have to wonder why.

 

[BKK]

I'm sort of scratching my head here a bit.

People are encouraging a person to up and move to other parts of the world without addressing the fact we have a minority feeling very valuable at this point and time about how he is going to be treated long term in the UK.

Does no one find this problematic and worrying we are even here? Are the best suggestions is move out and work in other, more inclusive places?

He's English.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

So are we expecting:

1) EU to go full speed ahead with the european project now that the UK is out of the way
2) EU to take it slow not to fuel any more anti-EU parties

At the very least Germany will be even more dominant force in the EU politics. I feel like France has fizzled out slowly these past years while the UK has been the major counterpart.

 

[Palette Swap]

I'm sort of scratching my head here a bit.

People are encouraging a person to up and move to other parts of the world without addressing the fact we have a minority feeling very valuable at this point and time about how he is going to be treated long term in the UK.

Does no one find this problematic and worrying we are even here? Are the best suggestions is move out and work in other, more inclusive places?

Well, that's really the Leave mentality taken to its logical conclusion. Mediocre narrow minded insularism fucking entire generations.

 

[jellies_two]

I wasn't exactly happy before honestly. Been feeling that this country's leadership has been actively and overtly been trying to cripple the working class/poor for over a decade. In that I can sympthaise with leave voters, especially people like BKK above.

But now I feel like the people who I should naturally have solidarity with are showing that given the chance they would would want me crippled too.

I understand that for some leave voters, it was never about immigration, "taking back their country" or even simply rebelling against their government. It was just simply about making their voices heard and being allowed at the seat at the table.

But this was the most reckless and destructive way of doing things. If leave is as much about voter disillusionment and feeling disenfranchised by the major political parties, where was their moblization at the last election? If labour really has lost touch with the working class, why hasn't a new party formed that specifically represents the needs and interest of that group?

Why did people feel falling with in the racists and the extreme right wing was a much better option?

That's why I feel this vote was a big "fuck you" to minorities as well. UKIP, at least what we see as UKIP has only really existed over the past 10 years. In that same time, we could of seen the growth of a party that represented the working class and vowed to fight the real reasons for their disenfranchisment :- lack of investment in education, infrastructure, workers rights, housing, the NHS and other issues specific to the working class.

But nobody cared enough and the the few isolated parties that do exist are so irrelevant, their names aren't even put on official ballots.

People on some level clearly prefer the narrative that 'it's the scary brown peoples fault, vote to make them go away". It's cleaner, simplier and sexier. You can use all the arguments you want that this was more complicated than that, but the fact remains that 17.6 million people would rather use a tactical nuke than a scapel to perform surgery.

You have to wonder why.

Before you assume it's just racism, please read this

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

The establishment forces in the UK ignored a large chunk of their own people (outside London) for a long time. In a way they are in a more desperate a situation than recent economic migrants. What they did may or may not make any difference and may make themselves worse off, but it seems to be about being disconnected from representation outside hip urban areas, not racism.

 

[Drek]

He has as much right and access to work anywhere on the non EU world as his twin in any other non EU country had access last year or next year. Every country has different rules and barriers to enter and the EU has barriers too that's why there are fences and refugee camps and the U.K. has barriers across the entrance to the Chunnel.
It's honestly hard to parse what you are trying to say it sounds like some kind of punishment idea. The world should punish English passports for their decision in order to perhaps change things back.

What I'm saying is that work visas and similar documentation are far more regulated everywhere else in the world than they were within the EU. Working in the U.S. from Canada or vice versa is an order of magnitude harder than working in any other EU nation for someone from the UK. My former boss and his wife were from Canada. Both of their children were born in the U.S.. He figured that they spent between $5,000 and $8,000 every two years to remain working in the U.S., once you added up all the fees, legal counsel, etc..

Now the UK is going to be a tiny little island that just voted to leave the EU specifically to limit the amount of foreign workers it accepts. Do you really think other nations will accept a lopsided number of people from the UK versus what the UK accepts from them? The UK is about to leave the EU and likely pass strict immigration/foreign worker laws in quick succession thanks to populist sentiment. It isn't punishment for nations to respond to that with a strict decline in the number of UK workers they'll accept into their countries.

But yeah, he's got 2-3 years before the gates slam shut. Though he should be careful as if he's in a not highly skilled position elsewhere when the UK leaves and the limits roll in he might not enjoy the cost:benefit analysis his employer would run on retaining him on whatever new foreign work program comes up.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I voted leave, so obviously I don't believe that it will be a catastrophe. Yes, it will be more difficult to work in Europe, but no more than for Americans/ Australians. That's unfortunate, but not the end of the world.

What am I making up? I've been highly critical of both sides during the campaign, most of it was hyperbole on both sides. I personally don't believe that a vote either way would have been catastrophic. If I'm calming things down on one side it's only because that's the side which is most concerned due to the way the vote went.

Trying to tell people that it's just as easy to travel to foreign countries to work, speaking to someone obviously depressed about their travel/labor movement prospects.

It is absolutely not. Going to work in Australia is *nothing* like hopping over to France on a contract job in the EU.

 

[Krejlooc]

So assume the UK actually dissolves, and Scotland and NI remain in the EU. Presumably, they'd have to be open to taking some fleeing immigrants. Did any leave voters consider that they'd have immigrants living within driving distance of England and Wales, and now they'd have a legitimate reason to honestly hate those countries as well? The crux of their leave argument, as it pertains to immigration, is related to security, right? They just painted a target on themselves for any angry extremist, IMO.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Before you assume it's just racism, please read this

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

The establishment forces in the UK ignored a large chunk of their own people (outside London) for a long time. In a way they are in a more desperate a situation than recent economic migrants. What they did may or may not make any difference and may make themselves worse off, but it seems to be about being disconnected from representation outside hip urban areas, not racism.

You obviously didn't read my post properly.

I don't think it was "just" racism. I question the methodology of this so called "rebellion against the elites".

The same elites may I remind you, that were voted back in only a year ago.

And sorry. I grew up in inner city Birmingham. I know first hand what a desperate situation some of the working class are in and have been in for a long time.

I question what association those people have made with the EU though, especially as many of the few program that have helped over the years have been European Social fund projects.

 

[LelouchZero]

This is a really interesting turn of events. I have mixed feelings on this.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

I've just spent the entire day reading this thread, feeling as close to tears as a grown ass man can be without a death in the family, despondent, worried and real unsure on what on earth I can do next.

I'm not a successful intellectual, I haven't got an established career, I'm not rich, Im not young. More importantly, I'm not white or at least white-looking.

Where on earth can I go and what can I do that will not have me struggling for the rest of my life? I am fully committed to emigration now, but the reality is that anywhere I would go I'd be on the lowest rung of the ladder, lower than the unwanted immigrants in this country (who at least in London are highly edcuated, regardless of what minimum wage jobs they are forced to do)

I sit here and think that maybe if I plan carefully and start learning skills that in demand internationally, I may have a chance. But I work full time in a decent paying, but time consuming job that not only limits what training I can take on, but by its very nature limits my skillset to something that only is relevant in that particular industry at best and that particular company at worst.

The Xenophobic wing of the leave campaign would like nothing more for people like me to piss off and give them their country back, but I feel that this vote has damned the people who would have been willing to leave the UK eventually. I just feel so damn sad. My only positive takeaway from all this is at least, to some degree, I've enjoyed what the good times felt like. The average teenager, especially ones from low income ethic backgrounds won't even experience that.

I really hate what leave voters have done. They haven't just damned their youth, they have damned anyone with ambitions to rise above their station in life. Many will overcome this, but a great many wont. That in itself is a shameful tragedy.

To be fair, and with no disrespect towards the conditions that you and other non-whites face under these sentiments, a lot of people are in the same boat. Particularly because entry-level jobs no longer lead to better ones.

You can see how clueless GAFers are in that regard too, when they say "oh well, a retail job is just a minimum wage dead-end job, just quit" and are completely oblivious to the point that that tends to be all you can get when your career 'fails'. The traditional career path is broken to the point where it likely can't be (or won't be) fixed anymore.
(which, like you said, lead to people just wanting to have a seat at the big boy table for once)

However, options for non-traditional careers based on volition and portfolios are now much, much more accessible than they used to be. The production means, I mean. Anyone can start a website, set up a brand, and drop-ship merchandise in from China at this point. It's probably even a bit too easy now.

 

[GamerMax73]

Yes, this was the biggest issue in the referendum. The UK population increased from 60m in 2004 to 64m in 2014, housing and amenities never kept up with the increasing population (a significant proportion of which was due to immigration after the ascension of former Eastern Bloc countries to the EU in 2004).

Actually not a bad post and sums up the leave argument very well. The problem is about half of that 4m population increase can be attributed to the net difference between native births and deaths, a natural population increase. And about 1m can be accounted for by non-EU migration.

Rather than vilify people who make a net positive contribution to our economy, maybe the real answer all along was to ease off austerity, raise taxes, and invest in our under developed resources?

 

[firehawk12]

I understand class being a factor and voting to protest the "bankers" in the City, but my question would be why the fuck would these people vote in the Tories in the first place?
A lot of this just feels like it parallels the rise of Trump in America, where the disaffected protest voters are voting against the establishment but also voting against their own interests in doing so.

 

[jellies_two]

You obviously didn't read my post properly.

I don't think it was "just" racism. I question the methodology of this so called "rebellion against the elites".

The same elites may I remind you, that were voted back in only a year ago.

And sorry. I grew up in inner city Birmingham. I know first hand what a desperate situation some of the working class are in and have been in for a long time.

I question what association those people have made with the EU though, especially as many of the few program that have helped over the years have been European Social fund projects.

Ok my apology, it is hard over posts to communicate clearly and I was posting the article not to you specifically but because it seems to be one of the few sane narratives that isn't a simple idiots vs smart people simplification. However you framed your post that you are a not a white person who now feels uncomfortable or more uncomfortable than you did before so issues of race are clearly important and certainly brexit voters keep getting labelled xenophobic racist and so on. Or just dumb, as in a sense you are doing by saying they don't realise that the EU has helped them with projects and money.

But as been stated up-thread, it clearly wasn't enough help because telling people with little hope that if they leave EU there will be little hope isn't a persuasive argument for them. The leave vote from these people was an FU to the establishment, not an FU to non-whites. They were given the option of pissing off and surprising the group-think, and dominant story, and they took it.

That said they didn't vote to nuke the country, exit might be anti-establishment but it isn't an impossible unworkable scenario. There are a number of non-racist non-xenophobic establishment figures who clearly believe it was actually a better choice and staying in the EU has plenty of issues as well. Just different ones.

 

[Honey Bunny]

So assume the UK actually dissolves, and Scotland and NI remain in the EU. Presumably, they'd have to be open to taking some fleeing immigrants. Did any leave voters consider that they'd have immigrants living within driving distance of England and Wales, and now they'd have a legitimate reason to honestly hate those countries as well? The crux of their leave argument, as it pertains to immigration, is related to security, right? They just painted a target on themselves for any angry extremist, IMO.

Most of the public sentiment against mass immigration, asides from straight xenophobia from some, is to do with overburdened public services, a saturation of low paid labour and an overcrowded housing market. I honestly think security isn't a large part of the public's concern on this. Anybody that hates a neighbouring country just because the percentage of immigrants increases is a simple racist and will be one whether Scotland has more or less immigration.

I understand class being a factor and voting to protest the "bankers" in the City, but my question would be why the fuck would these people vote in the Tories in the first place?
A lot of this just feels like it parallels the rise of Trump in America, where the disaffected protest voters are voting against the establishment but also voting against their own interests in doing so.

The demographics for this vote and the last election cross party lines. Social conservatives from the right, old labour from the left.

 

[Hexa]

For a bit of humor:

Evangelion Brexit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XYBIUGJvzs&feature=youtu.be