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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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you think the US asks those European Countries to support it's military endeavors?
I know the U.S. relies on NATO support for its military endeavours. Just you go ask Joe Public in the U.S. if they're willing to send there son's and daughters to die invading Iran or Syria or pretty much anywhere without UN/NATO support.
 
I won't quote all of you! Or, in fact, any of you...

But it sounds like the issue, then, is on our side, not theirs? So it's still not really about us going to the back of the queue with the US?

Shit, maybe we could negotiate free movement of people with the US!
 

oti

Banned
Bloody hell.



Wat.

I mean this sort of felt how it was but to start getting confirmation of it is something else. Man what I wouldn't do for a new episodes of The Thick of It on this mess.

This is such a tragic joke.

It was pretty clear immediately there was no plan. I called the government incompetent and got criticized for it. But it was obvious right from the start.
 
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 32% (-5)
LAB: 32% (+2)
UKIP: 16% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+2)
(via Survation, online / 24 - 25 Jun)

I see the Tory pro remainers already abandoning ship. Going to be an interesting period, maybe Tories won't try and call an election after all.
 

Aki-at

Member
There are only a finite number of people with the requisite skills to conduct major trans-national trade agreements.

And according to the BBC Britain only have half a dozen skilled enough to work on our trade deals with Europe.

Do we even have enough people for this whole thing?
 

Ashes

Banned
What he's describing is essentially the relationship that the UK already had with Europe, well done guys.

This has always gone back to the Maastricht Treaty. It just took these sore Tory losers 20 years. Same ones too. Well Boris was a journalist but you know what I mean.

Lord Hill said it best. He was a Euro skeptic. But working with the EU, he's actually come round. It was built on sound principles.
 

Jisgsaw

Member
i don't think they will have to to be honest.

it is in everyone's best interest that the UK gets a good deal. that is why they will get a good deal.

No, it's in UK's best interest, which doesn't necessarly align with others.
If the EU makes an ultimatum to the US to not include specific points in its deal with the UK, you can be sure the US won't do it, because they need the EU more than they need the UK.
 

Aki-at

Member
It was pretty clear immediately there was no plan. I called the government incompetent and got criticized for it. But it was obvious right from the start.

Oh I know.

I just thought they'd like, you know, not start leaking out they actually didn't have a plan.

Wonder how Farage is bricking it too.
 

pigeon

Banned
I know the U.S. relies on NATO support for its military endeavours. Just you go ask Joe Public in the U.S. if they're willing to send there son's and daughters to die invading Iran or Syria or pretty much anywhere without UN/NATO support.

I mean, sure, but this is a political requirement, not really a military one.

America has enough military force to go invade basically anybody in the world who doesn't have nukes. Our strategic goal has recently been to be able to fight a effective war in two different theatres at once (i.e., stand off against China and the EU at the same time in their respective continents), which seems incredibly wasteful to me but there you go.

So when we ask for UN support it's not because we can't spare the drones. It's because there's a big difference between a UN intervention for which America supplies 90% of the military power and an American invasion.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I won't quote all of you! Or, in fact, any of you...

But it sounds like the issue, then, is on our side, not theirs? So it's still not really about us going to the back of the queue with the US?

Shit, maybe we could negotiate free movement of people with the US!

No. We've all used the UK example, but the same applies to the US - they have enough people to do only so many negotiations at once. So yes there's a queue, and yes we'll be somewhere near the back.

Even if we weren't though, we probably don't have enough people to do that deal and handle EU exit simultaneously. QuicheFontaine reckons we can just cut and paste from Canada deals, but it probably ain't that easy.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
And according to the BBC Britain only have half a dozen skilled enough to work on our trade deals with Europe.

Do we even have enough people for this whole thing?

It's the long-term unemployed leave voters' time to shine.
 

jufonuk

not tag worthy
If you couldn't see it coming, you deserve everything that might be coming your way

What about those of us who wanted to stay ?

Spoke to a friend he thinks he will be bad but we will carry on. He is upset to bit doesn't want to leave and this is we can pull through . He was yes to stay too
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
Boris Johnson has said to his friends he is actually pro EU and didn't want to leave. This entire charade has been about him showing his party he can run things, oblivious to the damage he never thought would occur. It would be hilarious if I didn't live here.
 

Seiniyta

Member
So, this was being shared around on twitter (notably by J.K rowling) which I found interesting.
Cl4km5WWYAAemEm.jpg:large


https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/747074894161141760
 
So this petition is doing the rounds:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/128217
I hope it reaches 100k (they rarely do...). We've just seen what a culture of lying manages to bring.

so looks like the petition is now a bust, with people from outside the UK now signing it....
If you look at the json file you find 96% of the signatures are from the UK. If 4% salt (discounting UK citizens not living in UK) is enough to bust it, well time to bust every petition on that site...

What am I reading?

And how has she shown her "true" colours when she has always fought for independence.
You are reading PackAPunchedMick who said the following yesterday:
Get a fucking grip man, not a single job has been lost from this vote. And we're a country with a land border with fucking no-one. "less safe", please.

The remain campaigners really did a number on some people jesus.
They got trampled upon then, mainly for the bolded but also the underlined.
 

Tak3n

Banned
Scottish Govt sources saying Scottish Parliament does not have power to block to UK Brexit and say Nicola Sturgeon is not threatening veto

For clarification - Nicola Sturgeon is not threatening to try and block UK Brexit. But says will not vote for against interests of Scotland

Unclear if the Scot Parliament refusing to pass Brexit motion would block UK leaving - but experts think its unlikely

https://twitter.com/BBCsarahsmith/status/747065979973279746 (Scotland Editor of the BBC)

Ruth Davidson says no need for #indyref2 - 1.6 mill Scottish votes for Remain don't wipe out 2 mill votes for UK in 2014 she says
 

Hasney

Member
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 32% (-5)
LAB: 32% (+2)
UKIP: 16% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+2)
(via Survation, online / 24 - 25 Jun)

I see the Tory pro remainers already abandoning ship. Going to be an interesting period, maybe Tories won't try and call an election after all.

I'm really interested in seeing that LDEM number and how it might rise since they're almost going to be a single issue party, at least for the next GE.
 

Pandy

Member
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 32% (-5)
LAB: 32% (+2)
UKIP: 16% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+2)
(via Survation, online / 24 - 25 Jun)

I see the Tory pro leavers already abandoning ship. Going to be an interesting period, maybe Tories won't try and call an election after all.

The only way the Tories call a general election is on a pro-Leave ticket, a "Get the best deal for Britain" sort of a thing, to try and reclaim voters (and MPs) lost to UKIP in recent years. Anything else will see their ratings plunge and risk their overall majority.

Well, I say the 'only' way, but if their aim is political suicide to allow them to abdicate responsibility, then who knows. :\
 
I wish. From Guardian comment section.

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

So, according to this they will ignore people's voice and stay in the EU? I hope that's the case.
 

Crumpo

Member
My own opinion is that the banks as a whole won't move for a while yet - and probably won't move wholesale anyway - too much happens in London. You can't for example easily replicate London's insurance market. The whole world is here. And sorry to use this but London really is 'too big to fail'. You have the media intelligence firms here, the lawyers, accountants. Lots of things make London work better than

What will go probably, and again, this is merely my own opinion, is what we are already seeing, clearing euro currency etc.

The funny thing is bank bonuses will be hit or not hit - nobody knows. CEOS wages still go up even if they do absolutely terrible jobs. So...

Apologies for the bump of this quote-I just wanted to give you some perspective.

The part of financial services I work in is fee-based; we hold assets on behalf of clients so the more value those assets have, the more we make in fees. It benefits us to see people's pension funds with lots of money in them. This dip in market value will have a direct effect to bank revenue for the negative.

Secondly, on cash balances left with us we invest those in the money markets and give the clients a cut of the profits-the lower the interest rates, the less money we make. Currently we are charging clients for deposits in certain currencies so even if we pass back the costs directly to clients we're not making anything. We need rates to start going up so we can make more profits for those clients on their balances.

Our profits this year were based on at least two, maybe three FED rate rises and at least one BoE rate rise...with the odds of both of those diminishing neither us nor our clients will be making any money anytime soon.

No profits, no bonuses. No bonuses, no tax revenue. Everyone loses.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
It was pretty clear immediately there was no plan. I called the government incompetent and got criticized for it. But it was obvious right from the start.

It was me that criticised you, I think. And I still suspect there is a plan that we don't know about.

Westminster voting intention:
CON: 32% (-5)
LAB: 32% (+2)
UKIP: 16% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+2)
(via Survation, online / 24 - 25 Jun)

I see the Tory pro remainers already abandoning ship. Going to be an interesting period, maybe Tories won't try and call an election after all.

Or it could be the Tory pro-Leavers abandoning ship. Being as we don't yet know what the party will look like it is a bit hard to tell.
 
It was me that criticised you, I think. And I still suspect there is a plan that we don't know about.



Or it could be the Tory pro-Leavers abandoning ship. Being as we don't yet know what the party will look like it is a bit hard to tell.


Very true but the movement to libdem and Labour had me thing pro remain but you could be right.
 

numble

Member
Don't you know? The US trade deals team is one guy and he's only allowed to work on one deal at once!

In the past 10 years, the US has only concluded 5 free trade deals. In the 8 years of the Obama administration, there have only been 3 free trade deals concluded.
 

Dizzy

Banned
Leavers have an over-inflated sense of importance
LMAO!

After all thats been said by the Remain camp the past few days?

"I'm right, you're wrong!"

"Only our votes should count, lets take away [insert groups] right to vote"

"We're the educated ones, you voted differently to me so you're dumb"

"Our choice was the right one, we should have anither referendum so that WE can win"

Oh please.
 
News just in the EU is going to construct a huge artificial land mass next to Ireland and declare it part of the British Isles forcing the island known as Great Britain to change it's name to Mediocre Britain. They are going to fund this by making the English pay for it and unemployed English people will be used as slave labour in the construction. The markets are satisfied that this will send the right message to world and promote stability.
 
I mean, sure, but this is a political requirement, not really a military one.

America has enough military force to go invade basically anybody in the world who doesn't have nukes.

Oh, don't get me wrong I fully understand, appreciate and respect that. My point is your government is just as beholden to its electorate as ours are. I don't think, as a nation, you have the will any more to go it alone.

I also think a United Europe, should an EU army go ahead, isn't as small a deal as others have made out.

Sorry, but we do have enough nukes and bodies on this side of the Atlantic should it ever come down to a fight

I'm all for the special relationship, but I can't see the U.S. imposing its will on France and Germany when it comes to negotiating Brexit trade deals with the UK.

You can try, but be very wary of the resentment if you do.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Ignoring would be political suicide


There's no requirement, but the assumption is they will or risk political suicide.

I said it before but generally again - it may be political suicide, but going through with it would be Political...hari-kari

Seriously. You would be the leader and party to preside over the shittest, hardest period in modern history - even if things got better, we are talking years.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
So, according to this they will ignore people's voice and stay in the EU? I hope that's the case.

Peoples voice was a few percent different. How do you reconcile that if half the country do not agree? This was not a landslide, but was won on a small margin. I think by area the highest swing to leave was 70 something percent, where as the highest for remain was in the 90's. The people spoke but nowhere near together.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Apologies for the bump of this quote-I just wanted to give you some perspective.

The part of financial services I work in is fee-based; we hold assets on behalf of clients so the more value those assets have, the more we make in fees. It benefits us to see people's pension funds with lots of money in them. This dip in market value will have a direct effect to bank revenue for the negative.

Secondly, on cash balances left with us we invest those in the money markets and give the clients a cut of the profits-the lower the interest rates, the less money we make. Currently we are charging clients for deposits in certain currencies so even if we pass back the costs directly to clients we're not making anything. We need rates to start going up so we can make more profits for those clients on their balances.

Our profits this year were based on at least two, maybe three FED rate rises and at least one BoE rate rise...with the odds of both of those diminishing neither us nor our clients will be making any money anytime soon.

No profits, no bonuses. No bonuses, no tax revenue. Everyone loses.

Nothing personal, but I would have a good deal more sympathy with this if similar sympathy had been extended to undercut builders and plumbers over the last ten years.
 

PJV3

Member
I said it before but generally again - it may be political suicide, but going through with it would be Political...hari-kari

Seriously. You would be the leader and party to preside over the shittest, hardest period in modern history - even if things got better, we are talking years.

We will procede as if we are leaving and hopefully have another vote when we see the New House as Blair put it today.
 
Nothing personal, but I would have a good deal more sympathy with this if similar sympathy had been extended to undercut builders and plumbers over the last ten years.

Not mutually exclusive, tho. And not, really, anything to do with the EU, if the domestic government gave a fuck instead of promoting austerity.
 

Bold One

Member
LMAO!

After all thats been said by the Remain camp the past few days?

"I'm right, you're wrong!"

"Only our votes should count, lets take away [insert groups] right to vote"

"We're the educated ones, you voted differently to me so you're dumb"

"Our choice was the right one, we should have anither referendum so that WE can win"

Oh please.

If you were right, where are your leaders? what was your plan?

You wanted out? We're going out, but alas I see no road map...no plan of action

To top it all off, all the promises made to to con you into committing economic seppuku have been revealed to be nought but magic beans...

So I ask again, what now?
 

Zaph

Member
I don't really understand why people chose to focus on this rather than what's happening next.

Because this is what's happening next. Leave's cheerleaders are going into hiding because none of them know what to do with their 'victory'. How do you move forward with no actual team who believes in the direction?
 
Technically - yes. She has the power to refuse royal consent on the final act of parliament that removes the UK from the EU.

In reality, the last time royal assent was refused was in ... 1708!

A president has been set and any attempts to do this would trigger a constitutional crises.

There is absolutely nothing any member of the monarch can do or say on this matter without making everything a whole lot worse than it already is.

Please, no Presidents in the UK! Surely you mean precedent.
 
The only way the Tories call a general election is on a pro-Leave ticket, a "Get the best deal for Britain" sort of a thing, to try and reclaim voters (and MPs) lost to UKIP in recent years. Anything else will see their ratings plunge and risk their overall majority.

Well, I say the 'only' way, but if their aim is political suicide to allow them to abdicate responsibility, then who knows. :

The problem with not calling an early General election is they are forced into managing a complete Brexit. They have no mandate for anything else. And regardless of the outcome they'll be blamed at the ballot box in 2020.

Not calling an early election is just as much political suicide as calling it.

Pretty much as that article that keeps doing the rounds nicely points out, Cameron has checked mated the pro leavers in the Tory party. For once I take my hat off to him, he's earned a smidgen of respect from me.
 
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