D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Deal.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
- Start date
- Status
Deal.
PJV3
Member
Same, that way Parliament isn't just brushing off the vote or ignoring real resentment in poorer parts of the country.
We can't go back to business as usual.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I think they're going to half ass Brexit, if it even happens, and just join the EEA instead. All the things Leavers hate about the EU, with none of the benefits of full membership. I can see a second vote taking place on any new agreement.
KonradLaw
Member
Depends on what you mean by "good deal". Britain had a great deal with EU and whatever they get will be worse than what they already had, so downrage to "good". might happen.
The problem is that to get a good deal UK will have to accept shitload of things Brexiters voted specifically against. Without things like following EU regulations, giving money to shared budget and free movement of people there's no way any good deal will be reached. Because such deal would only be good for UK, while being very bad for everyone else in EU. And remember, everyone in EU has to agree to it before it happens. Romania or Slovakia won't give two shits about german car business interest. Heck, italy would benefit from screwing with the car deals between UK and Germany.
So I feel really sorry for the next PM of UK, because he will effectively have to either tank the economy or somehow convince people that accepting a worse version of what they aleady had is somehow a good idea, when the same people voted against that just two years ago.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
One side is terrified of the possibility of being kicked about on the world stage.
The other expects the world to fall in line and kiss the ring. Because reasons.
One of those groups has an inflated sense of self importance, yes.
RedSparrows
Member
This. EU or not, there's something afoot in the land, and it's fucking pissed off.
HSBC planning on moving 1000 jobs
Morgan Stanley watching developments but not committing
Cornwell and Wales need reassurance of European funds
Tata Steel bidders getting cold feet
4 indie video game studios closing (okay this isn't a big big deal but was sad to read immediate job losses)
And that was Saturday.
Who do you have to blame for people accepting lower quotes for work by (I presume you're referring to) "foreign" people? The very same British public that just voted to kick them out. It's like the people lamenting the loss of Woolworths - everyone moaned on TV but you all went to the massive Tesco down the road instead.
On a more factual note, this has a much more significant impact to GDP (12-15pc) so more than just the people being fired will feel the burn.
But hey, those greedy bankers asked for it, amirite?
Exactly - you are saying directly to the public, 'you wanted out - here is the door, terms and conditions. Are you SURE you want to walk out on this understanding, because it sure as hell maybe not the leaving package you thought you were getting or indeed believed you were signing up to'
EdwardTeach
Member
Does you have a link for the Blair interview? Who was it with?
RedSparrows
Member
Starwolf_UK
Member
https://www.facebook.com/michaeledooley/posts/10153466793951256
We would never rename ourselves Medicore Britain we would name ourselves Greatest Britain knowing deep down it was a lie just like the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea has no democracy.
I'm all for renaming the country Sir David Attenborough.
We would never rename ourselves Medicore Britain we would name ourselves Greatest Britain knowing deep down it was a lie just like the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea has no democracy.
And the new capital will be Belly McBelface
GamerMax73
Member
Here's the thing, once article 50 is invoked, is there a oh no I've changed my mind get out of jail free clause? If not we might want to get some informal discussions underway and take that to an are you sure vote before pressing the self district button with article 50...
cormack12
Gold Member
Philip CollinsVerified account
‏@PCollinsTimes
Northern Ireland Sec says don't activate Article 50 as "we'll be shut out of important meetings". She voted Leave. Amazing.
https://twitter.com/PCollinsTimes/status/747008334650294272
‏@PCollinsTimes
Northern Ireland Sec says don't activate Article 50 as "we'll be shut out of important meetings". She voted Leave. Amazing.
https://twitter.com/PCollinsTimes/status/747008334650294272
ferrasvansen
Member
https://www.facebook.com/michaeledooley/posts/10153466793951256
I'm all for renaming the country Sir David Attenborough.
We would never rename ourselves Medicore Britain we would name ourselves Greatest Britain knowing deep down it was a lie just like the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea has no democracy.
Sad reality is any person who wished to come and work in the UK will surely be influenced by this, we couldn't cope without migration our economy is built on it and without out our economy will start to sink. The growing reports on social media,TV and radio as regards anti foreigner behaviour is frankly frightening, and should be stamped out now, where are our politicians telling the people to stop it, nowhere to be seen.
Interesting. Thank you for this. Whilst I agree that odds of a rise is diminishing, it's not a certainty.
The problem you all have that should concern you in a few years is what's on the FT front page right now.
Problem is, I think we're talking percentage points in tax revenue when you talk about the wider fallout.
Governor Carney said it right. We're in mitigating damages mode aren't we? :/
Yep - thats what I mean. Make the informal discussions, get a GE done and get public agreement pre article 50 because once that's invoked its formal and we can't go back as I understand
Thats why we need like...some kind of leadership right now
ferrasvansen
Member
mehrmantrout
Member
I don't think any party, even the Tories would be daft enough to run a pro leave election
geordiemp
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hFzMFbIUdA
Watch it carefully, the new house of blair, also every other politician said same thing in different ways.
Anyone who thinks Boris is going to jump in and press the button is just funny now.
Which ones?
WE ARE ALL HURT BY THIS.
No names were given so they could just be start ups.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ThatThereTim/status/746763506595291136
I can only wonder how many more have been effected. Rans contrary to the "not a single job loss" claim.
All that's been said by the Leave camp the past few days
"We actually lied about a lot of things that our campaign hinged on."
"We don't have a plan, we never had a plan."
"The only only one with a plan is Nicola Sturgeon."
"I regret making my vote, it was just supposed to be a protest vote."
"Cornwall voted leave and is now begging to not lose the money they get from the EU."
"<racist remarks>"
Basically, no. This is why I proposed that there needs to be a quasi-model drawn up and proposed to the public before invoking Art. 50; if it's invoked and then the deal reached isn't anywhere near what the leave camp wanted then 90% of the voting public will be dissatisfied.
But I got thrown into the "you can't keep changing the rules until you get what you want" camp, instead of the "well you lost, try and get something for the good of the country" camp that leavers have been telling me to get into...
We had a small number escorted from the building on Friday. Confidential so we're not allowed to know why (technically you are never allowed to know why) but rumours are flying.
We have already been put on warning, although it reads like "your job will be moved to Europe", rather than "you will be made redundant"
Yup. This photo really got me
The people who harp on about controlled immigration this, point system that, forget that you've got to make these people want to stay in your country. There are so many nations trying to attract the best and brightest (just look at what brain-draining other countries has done for the US's tech sector) and professionals aren't coming here for the weather. If they don't think they can bring their family or make a life from themselves, they'll knock on someone else's door.
PJV3
Member
It's going to happen eventually, UK sidelined.
If it's still called that after Scotland bolts.
There is not enough Picard facepalms for this and many others.
I was listening to the radio and there was an interview with a Dutch guy who has a start-up in the UK. He would often receive letters in the mail saying " get the fuck out of this country" then there was a Polish lady who owns a shop who is also often told to go back to Poland. Very sick. Thank God the rest of us know there are some really good people in the UK besides the filth. You do have such people in every country on this planet unfortunately.
The UK could go the way of South Africa in the 80s within the next decade if they don't calm down there with the hate.
The UK could go the way of South Africa in the 80s within the next decade if they don't calm down there with the hate.
ferrasvansen
Member
They won't want to come here, nobody will with this sort of shit. Any intelligent person wouldn't risk it, we are fucked.
EdwardTeach
Member
The expression is, as a whole.
The problem is it is a British constitutional crisis no matter which way you cut it, a referendum is advisory.
Do the government ignore the 17million voted to leave in favour of a second referendum with guidelines of opening it up to more younger voters and a >60%
Do they institute the policy of a potential next referendum as being mandatory?
Do they pair a second referendum with general election?
Does the the Queen step in that to upset the precedent but going against a lot of remain voters detest for the monarchy
Does the EU not accept the referendum like they did with the majority of the Treaties?
If by some miracle the 48% do get a second referendum through a combination of the above - what does that mean for the future of EU - a potential set back to any reform, making more bloated, less power to remove laws.
It was always a mistake for the EEA to evolve into a political union. That is where the split comes.
Do the government ignore the 17million voted to leave in favour of a second referendum with guidelines of opening it up to more younger voters and a >60%
Do they institute the policy of a potential next referendum as being mandatory?
Do they pair a second referendum with general election?
Does the the Queen step in that to upset the precedent but going against a lot of remain voters detest for the monarchy
Does the EU not accept the referendum like they did with the majority of the Treaties?
If by some miracle the 48% do get a second referendum through a combination of the above - what does that mean for the future of EU - a potential set back to any reform, making more bloated, less power to remove laws.
It was always a mistake for the EEA to evolve into a political union. That is where the split comes.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
No, I didn't mean it in a "greedy bankers" sort of way, I meant it in a 40% unemployment in Ebbw Vale fpr 30 years didn't make the politicians do anything sort of way.
The immediate economic impact of your situation is greater and deserves attention of course, the festering wound of the other is what led us here in the first place.
I think there is, though it is a bit sketchy. It was discussed in evidence before the Lords Committee though I can't look it up right now (got the ironing to do and posting in between shirts) and can't remember whether it made it to the final report - there's no provision in Art 50 for what happens if the exiting member state changes its mind prior to the 2-year deadline. One point of view is that that would be perfectly permissible and that the exit process could be terminated at that point. But it's by no means exactly clear.
Alx
Member
I think article 50 is vague enough to allow for a "we're not leaving after all" conclusion. Of course it would require cooperation from both sides :
It's mostly about 2 and 3. 2 doesn't really state that the result of the agreement is an automatic exit, but 3 states that any lack of agreement would default in the member being excluded from all treaties after 2 years.
But I don't see anything preventing the agreement to be "forget about it".
Of course you'd have to convince 52% of the UK voters that it's the best choice, so maybe the first step would be to have the shittiest proposition of agreement possible. :/
shinra-bansho
Member
There is a two year timeframe after which the 27 nations would need to agree to an extension. EDIT: Oh you're talking about take backs not extensions.
But I mean, at some point, article 50 needs to be formally triggered. And I would think in timeframe of months, not years or whatever.
With all due respect, it is a sad indictment of British society that the Leave supporting electorate overwhelmingly chose to ignore academia; world leaders; every living former prime minister; the IMF; NATO and it's own Intelligence Services; the EU; Nobel laureate economists; the economist who predicted the last crash; it's own treasury, and the Governor of the Bank of England; and chose instead to follow Euroskeptic politicians, The Sun, Daily Mail and the Daily Express.
On balance one side took a bigger risk than the other.
A large section of the non college educated working class in the country will never vote for the Labour Party again. They're gone. They are probably not a constituency they can win back and would necessarily want to win back. That group is essentially the same as their equivalent in the US, they are Trump voters.
The Labour Party is better served reinventing itself as centre left and rational. This will require professional politicians. This is the model the Democrats have but in the US it requires them to be somewhat centre right. Such a party has a good chance of recapturing the centre and power.
Dan Jarvis or a David Milliband will have to run.
The Labour Party is better served reinventing itself as centre left and rational. This will require professional politicians. This is the model the Democrats have but in the US it requires them to be somewhat centre right. Such a party has a good chance of recapturing the centre and power.
Dan Jarvis or a David Milliband will have to run.
The shit show that keeps on shitting.
This is sad and a lot of my European friends on Facebook (One WILL have to move out because his from Switzerland) felt shattered by the result. Absolutely awful and heartbreaking
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
As an American who doesn't know the limits of her power , could the Queen do anything? Could she urge Parliament to vote one way or another? Could she overrule them?
3 says that the treaties cease to apply after 2 years OR the date of a withdrawal agreement. So if your agreement is to "stay in, actually", you would need some bloody creative wording to have an agreement that applies treaties that are then made non-applicable once the agreement is reached. The other alternative is the 2yr period is extended to Dec 31, 3000, but that would need to be unanimous.
I would expect the law would need to be changed in order for us to reverse Art. 50
Nope.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
They didn't so much choose to ignore these authorities, they were never properly informed of them. Blame the campaign not the electorate.
Hell, even I didn't know some of these.
The more I think about this and the less I get how someone could ever think leaving the EU would benefit them.
The UK could get instant trading agreements with the US and EU, the pound could retain its value and the government could be not falling apart and it'd still be in a worse situation than it was in if it remained in the EU.
You can say the EU membership doesn't benefit your country at all but you'd be lying to yourself, just look at the situation, every political figure of importance is trying their best to avoid being the one to sign the death sentence.
I honestly hope for all UK citizens that some kind of backtracking happens, yeah there's been damage already but I believe it can get much worse if they go through with it, while if they don't the damage would hopefully stop at its current extent, a healthy future for the country is absolutely worth any amount of temporary backlash from leave voters.
With all of the stuff that happened in the last 2 days I'm also pretty confident that if there was another referendum the result would be much different.
The UK could get instant trading agreements with the US and EU, the pound could retain its value and the government could be not falling apart and it'd still be in a worse situation than it was in if it remained in the EU.
You can say the EU membership doesn't benefit your country at all but you'd be lying to yourself, just look at the situation, every political figure of importance is trying their best to avoid being the one to sign the death sentence.
I honestly hope for all UK citizens that some kind of backtracking happens, yeah there's been damage already but I believe it can get much worse if they go through with it, while if they don't the damage would hopefully stop at its current extent, a healthy future for the country is absolutely worth any amount of temporary backlash from leave voters.
With all of the stuff that happened in the last 2 days I'm also pretty confident that if there was another referendum the result would be much different.
geordiemp
Member
By who ? Are you going to step forward and trigger it ?
Who do you think will ?
Dont hold your breath
GamerMax73
Member
This is the rub though isn't it? All the talk right now is on triggering article 50 so formal negotiations can start. I can see how an income Tory PM, especially a pro-Brexit one, continuing without triggering article 50 almost immediately on appointment unless they call a general election.
The more I think on it the more I see Camerons parting gift as seriously damning his party no matter what they do. It's pure lose-lose for the Tory party. If Labour can't capitalise on this as the formal opposition then the country truly is lost.
The problem with professional politicians is that they're tactically smart people. I can't dsee either of those wanting the leadership right now. The trade unions do have too much power over Labour again these days too, so I can't see them winning leadership anyway.
I think we can both agree the circumstances that led to that situation are shitty and assistance to that region is required in order to bring employment back (maybe not exactly the same type of employment).
But I don't think you could argue the European Union was the cause of that situation. This is a vote of a disenfranchised country, a "fuck you" to the UK Government that has ignored them for so long.
Burning down your house because your parents don't love you isn't the way to do things, though,
Umm, I actually think the UK would have been better on in the EU. But the sheer ridiculousness, pettyness, and tantrums I've seen from a vocal minority of Remain supporters disgusts me.
These people champion democracy but then try and throw it out of the window when they don't get their own way. Saying people should have their right to vote taken away? Redoing a referendum because you didn't get the results you wanted? Asking the Government to ignore what people voted for? Lmfao. If we read about this happening in some other nation people would be up in arms about how corrupt it is if the Government started doing that. People need to read what they write before they post.
That's nice but my post was in regards to accusations of "self-importance".
This "us vs them" mob think mentality needs to stop. I'm calling out what I see to be bullshit. Doesn't mean I'm a hardcore pro leave champion.
I just understand that everyone has a different point of view based on a variety of factors and I can respect that.
If Leave lost and they were saying the same shit I'd call them out on it too.
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