The UK votes to leave the European Union

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Tak3n said:
Nicola Sturgeon reminds me of a fly, she just keeps buzzing around and annoying people....it has been said multiple times the EU wont recognise them unless they legally get a referendum, and the Goverment has all ready said no..

and there is no guarantee she would even win another indy ref
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Snp is concerned with independence, not necessarily EU membership. Plus, those are just assumptions. We don't know what kind of talks are going to happen. She will likely be speaking with EU reps to guarantee membership. The union of the UK is not the same as what is going on in Spain.There is also a case for the EU to use it as an opportunity to highlight what happens if you leave the EU. Given these points, Spain's vetoing comes in to question.
I'm also not so sure how the UK has dealt with Spain before all of this, that may also factor in.
 
KingSnake said:
I watched Sturgeon's speech live on tv and I really like her. What a difference of class between her and the future UK leaders. I really hope Scotland gets the chance to join the EU, we need countries who value humanity.

As for UK, at this point it's like the girlfriend who breaks everything in the house shouting "I hate you and your friends and I'm leaving you" while slamming the door on her way out only to realize once she is the other side of the door that she didn't think this through and has no place to go now so she comes back in and says "I still hate you but I will live in your flat a bit more and there's nothing you can do".

Own your decisions and don't fuck up also the rest of the continent.
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When you say UK, I think it's mostly England you are referring to
 
Tak3n said:
agreed, but they get the go ahead from Westminster (which she most likely wont) so it is like the annoying protester at the back of the crowd with a sign and wont shut up....

We heard you, your'e not happy....

I notice she did not say to her parliament, lets denounce the referendum and refuse to vote...
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So ultimately what you would prefer is silence and not protest? NeoGAF tends to be very pro-protest on the whole, as long as it isn't inciting violence or causing damage. Look at how Trump is discussed.

Pretty certain Sturgeon isn't swinging buckfast bottles and pissing on the street. She's got a duty to speak for the Scottish people and we voted decisively to stay in the EU. Probably not a good career move to ignore her own people and say nothing so the English don't get pissed off.
 
PdotMichael said:
You lost me here.

The EU doesn't exist solely to deal with UK's antics - although overstating the own importance is quite the British thing.
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Ok you are responding to fragments of fragments. Apparently using the word subjugation upset someone.

To rewind, if *as some claim* the EU is going to (or should) force the uk, or any member state, to invoke article 50 because of internal news they observe, then they are meddling in that members internal affairs, or trying to.

Luckily the eu despite what it is reported to say operates under laws and there is no law that allows it to set a date for an article 50, antics or not.
However some people here seem to think there should be, because it goes along with the theme that someone should be punished. Hoping the eu holds onto contributions, hoping they capriciously punish uk in new trade agreements (even at eu expense I might add) hoping they push article 50 button from their side to catch uk Government flat footed, has all been said and more by our bold patriotic voters here.
So many are so very touchy logic is going out the window.
 
Lucumo said:
Great that you want to fuck all of us over because of your views of the EU. You are a despicable person, honestly.
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Hahaha, I a huge fun of lots of aspects of the EU, stop being emotional, in the EU's case there are lots of elephants in the room and if those issues are not addressed the right wing party in France could end up blowing the EU up. Stop calling people names for having different views.
 
Tak3n said:
Nicola Sturgeon reminds me of me, she just keeps buzzing around and annoying people....it has been said multiple times the EU wont recognise them unless they legally get a referendum, and the Goverment has all ready said no..

and there is no guarantee she would even win another indy ref
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FTFY. Two points:

- Scotland voted no to independence in large part due to their place in the EU. If someone changes the rule of the game after you've already started playing, it's not unreasonable to want to start over.
- The Government? It's in absolute disarray mate. Granted, that means approval for an indyref is unlikely in the near future, but it also means that the government lacks a clear, authoritative voice on pretty much anything right now.
 
Tak3n said:
Nicola Sturgeon reminds me of a fly, she just keeps buzzing around and annoying people....it has been said multiple times the EU wont recognise them unless they legally get a referendum, and the Goverment has all ready said no..

and there is no guarantee she would even win another indy ref
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There's been a major political change in the circumstances under which the last referendum was held, and one of the core promises of the Westminster government has now been violated against the will of the voting majority of the Scottish population.

I'm English and pro-Union, but, frankly, I think they have absolutely every reason to demand another referendum in their place in a vastly different Union to the one they agreed to be in. It doesn't matter if they still decide to remain as part of the U.K. (Though speaking to my previously staunchly Pro-Union Scottish friends, not a chance in hell of that happening), they need to have their voices heard on this, and frankly I hope they get themselves the hell out of this collapsing UK heckhole.
 
Something good has actually come of all this malarkey..

https://www.facebook.com/richardcheese/?fref=nf

QYt7Onj.jpg


https://richardcheese.bandcamp.com/album/mucho-queso-collection-13-complete-richard-cheese-albums


I have no idea if this is geolocked or not, but I'm downloading it right now - 942MB (VBR MP3 format, in case that matters to anyone)
 
theaface said:
FTFY. Two points:

- Scotland voted no to independence in large part due to their place in the EU. If someone changes the rule of the game after you've already started playing, it's not unreasonable to want to start over.
- The Government? It's in absolute disarray mate. Granted, that means approval for an indyref is unlikely in the near future, but it also means that the government lacks a clear, authoritative voice on pretty much anything right now.
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agree with you, but the EU wont recognise her request unless she gets a official ok from Westminster and with all the turmoil that will be years...I am all for them having a different say, hell all it does is mean the vote to leave was even stronger if we remove Scotland from the voting....I wish her well, she seems like she cares, I just think she needs to just give things a chance to calm down a bit
 
Leave campaign has realised now that the EU is too big to bully around their will.
Likelihood is that the UK will be a shitty deal. Worse off in everyway possible. I'm so sorry.
 
Sumio Mondo said:
Well, to be fair, the EU themselves at least are admitting they need to reform now. This was a sort of wake up call for them.
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As a Remain voter, I can happily say it's an absolutely necessary wake up call. Bring on the reform,if it is indeed coming...

I just wish we could be at the table, rather than discovering all we've done is shit on our own doorstep.
 
also I dont really get all this clambering for another referendum, all I got told was the markets need stability, well that is not going to help is it...

and if leave won again!
 
Ushojax said:
Corbyn is well-meaning but he's just a stubborn old man. Going on a chat show and saying he was "7.5 out of 10" in favour of staying in the EU was just pure selfishness, he didn't really give a shit and wasn't willing to put on a smile and get behind Remain with enthusiasm. He's not willing to yield to anyone else's opinion, even if it's the opinion of his party's MPs.

I genuinely think that if Ed Miliband was still Labour leader, Remain would have won. There was simply no leadership from Corbyn, if you cannot even make your party's position understood to it's members, you have failed utterly. He would not survive the maelstrom of a general election, he refuses to play the game and ends up being utterly irrelevant. At least Miliband put himself out there and tried to absorb the blows. Corbyn just hides.
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spot on

i actually can't believe people i know (aka young remainers) aren't more angry about this. seeing him yesterday not giving a shit, refusing to even say it was bad, despite the futures of so many of the young people he's supposed to be energizing being hammered made me livid.

i mean maybe he wouldn't have swung it. i don't know. the labour vote was deeply fractured before he was leader.

every choice he made though. he littered speeches with comments slagging off the eu, he refuses to work with the major news broadcasters, he refused to share a platform with tories but made zero effort to promote a uniquely labour message about remain. absolutely useless and it's not a nice fuzzy story to have this strange guy who clearly isn't a tony blair type in a leadership role, his uselessness has consequences for us all.
 
Real Hero said:
what would they have to do for you to vote for them? David Milliband really?
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I'm not really sure to be honest, I guess it depends on the issues of the day and what needs fixing. I haven't had a fixed voting record. I have voted for Labour, greens, lib dems in my years of voting.

My core values are progressive, green and idealistic, but if anything i do tend to go with centralism. Not sure whether it is because that is what i am used to - Blair, Cameron, but it works (until they shoot themselves in the foot). I can see and understand, or even agree with some right of centre arguments. I do have a realistic streak behind my core values.

I just think Corbyn doesn't have the statement qualities. He is intelligent, appeals to my core values, a good activist, probably a good MP, but i don't think .. it is hard to say. It is maybe that he doesn't fit the mould that puts me off, but i think he has been really flimsy in this debate for example.

And personally i don't think Labour as a current MP that can step up and take the bull by the horns. Nicola sturgeon , Caroline lucas and Ruth Davidson are all people that have impressed me recently - all different parties, but they got that hunger, drive but also depth. And i think Dave Miliband as that too.

I don't know.
 
Moosichu said:
But that doesn't even mean anything.

We are still going to influenced by the EU. And now there is going to be years of infighting about what that arrangement will be.
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It means everything. The UK is withdrawing from the EU, which is the biggest change to the international order since the Berlin Wall came down. Of course we're still going to be influenced by them, just as we're influenced by lots of different nations and unions. We're not jettisoning off into space.

Of course there's going to be infighting as to what that arrangement is. That's good. That's politics. Personally, I hope that the likes of Corbyn and Paul Mason get to decide what that arrangement is, rather than Boris or Farage.
 
Sumio Mondo said:
Well, to be fair, the EU themselves at least are admitting they need to reform now. This was a sort of wake up call for them.
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It was mentioned several times before but if they actually do that now, it is good.

That has, however, nothing to do with the other guy cheering for the UK to hold the EU hostage, thus causing economic damage which in turn means people losing jobs etc etc.
 
Lucumo said:
It was mentioned several times before but if they actually do that now, it is good.

That has, however, nothing to do with the other guy cheering for the UK to hold the EU hostage, thus causing economic damage which in turn means people losing jobs etc etc.
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Yeah, that is a dickish thing for anyone to cheer over, agreed. That's the last thing anyone needs or wants, surely.
 
Lucumo said:
It was mentioned several times before but if they actually do that now, it is good.

That has, however, nothing to do with the other guy cheering for the UK to hold the EU hostage, thus causing economic damage which in turn means people losing jobs etc etc.
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No one is cheering, stop being emotional. Let's agree to disagree and still have a constructive discussion:)
 
The EU will change differently as a result of this. The UK had always been more neoliberal than the other members and would have be more likely to push for American-like legislation. Perhaps now we can get a less divided union.
 
Joelstinton14 said:
I'm not really sure to be honest, I guess it depends on the issues of the day and what needs fixing. I haven't had a fixed voting record. I have voted for Labour, greens, lib dems in my years of voting.

My core values are progressive, green and idealistic, but if anything i do tend to go with centralism. Not sure whether it is because that is what i am used to - Blair, Cameron, but it works (until they shoot themselves in the foot). I can see and understand, or even agree with some right of centre arguments. I do have a realistic streak behind my core values.

I just think Corbyn doesn't have the statement qualities. He is intelligent, appeals to my core values, a good activist, probably a good MP, but i don't think .. it is hard to say. It is maybe that he doesn't fit the mould that puts me off, but i think he has been really flimsy in this debate for example.

And personally i don't think Labour as a current MP that can step up and take the bull by the horns. Nicola sturgeon , Caroline lucas and Ruth Davidson are all people that have impressed me recently - all different parties, but they got that hunger, drive but also depth. And i think Dave Miliband as that too.

I don't know.
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Thanks for the reply. Even as someone who will vote Corbyn for sure if he lasts I agree with may of your views. Labour is in a tough spot no doubt.
 
Corbyn has just frustrated me more than anything. This would have been an excellent opportunity to promote his kinder politics given the overall tone, and he didn't.

Granted, I think most Labour people voted Remain? But he could have done more. You can tell his heart wasn't really in it.

I like him a lot, but he needs to buck up his ideas, fast.
 
It's been one day since the result and everyone globally is still trying to get their mind around it. In truth whether you like the result or not, it's a tad premature at this juncture to declare it the end of civilisation as we know it. Sure the markets reacted, but then that's inevitably the case whenever anything big happens in the world. Next week, next month things might be completely different. At the earliest, it's going to take 2 years before the UK breaks away, and that's probably an optimistic timescale given all the trade agreements and other aspects that will need to take place with all the parties concerned.


There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbours came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "Maybe," the farmer replied.

The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbours exclaimed. "Maybe," replied the old man.

The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbours again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "Maybe," answered the farmer.

The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbours congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "Maybe," said the farmer.

......

Everyone right now seems so utterly convinced they can predict with certainty what's going to happen, I'm half inclined to ask them for next weeks lottery numbers tbh.

Fact of the matter is, there are no maps for these territories. So it's beyond foolhardy to do more than wait and see how things shake out at this juncture.
 
sono said:
what does the UK actually manufacture these days - anything that makes any money ?
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Here's a top 10 from 2015:

Machines, engines, pumps: US$63.9 billion (13.9% of total exports)
Gems, precious metals: $53 billion (11.5%)
Vehicles: $50.7 billion (11%)
Pharmaceuticals: $36 billion (7.8%)
Oil: $33.2 billion (7.2%)
Electronic equipment: $29 billion (6.3%)
Aircraft, spacecraft: $18.9 billion (4.1%)
Medical, technical equipment: $18.4 billion (4%)
Organic chemicals: $14 billion (3%)
Plastics: $11.8 billion (2.6%)

Actually, sorry those are the exports... So not the same thing! So sorry
 
Things are moving fast:

The UK's European commissioner - Conservative politician Jonathan Hill - has resigned, saying "what is done cannot be undone" after the UK voted to leave the EU
 
Moosichu said:
Boris Johnson is essentially in absolute shock.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...boris-johnson-wakes-up-to-the-costs-of-brexit
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No surprise there. He could potentially be the last Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. And the 2020 election that the Conservatives were shoe-ins to win is now uncertain, depending on how things go. Who would want the job? It's a poisoned chalice now.

I love how this has blown up in the Tories' faces. Just wish it wasn't going to affect the rest of us too.
 
Also, watching BBC made me understand why so many English people in this thread are convinced that EU will crumble now without UK. So much unsubstantiated talk about the demise of EU and how other countries might follow UK's example and go for a referendum and how the fate of EU is unknown. So much speculative talk about EU and so less talk about the future of UK. And it's BBC ffs.

Sorry, but no major EU country has yet a PM as stupid as Cameron to trigger self harming.
 
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