No but the decision of closing Tango is bad. I'm not talking about that and you're showing me what everyone is tweeting since 48 hours. But it doesn't matter, it's ok and even common in 2024 to have no personality.
What I also mean is that nobody bought those games. EW1 sold 4M copies (because Mikami, because "the New RE4 is here", but in fact no) and 2 sold like shit (a little less than 1 million...). I didn't find any numbers for Ghostwire but knowing nobody who played the games and that it was on sale at 19€ after 2 months isn't a good sign.
I bought EW1, EW2, Ghostwire Tokyo, all on day one. I bought the DLCs of EW1 on day one. I did my part.
So should I receive lessons from people who buy nothing and then "oh nooo why closing the studio ? the gamez were awesooooome? " : I don't think so.
I am saddened of what happened to this studio. But fuck nobody bought their games... Sure I'd prefer that MS manage the thing differently, integrate the team into another, modeling it differently...
But it just pisses me off to see all the internet shitting on "oh no Tango, my fav gamezzzzzz" while they didn't buy any of their games or EW1 at 9$ in a sale... That's so hypocritical.
No but the decision of closing Tango is bad. I'm not talking about that and you're showing me what everyone is tweeting since 48 hours. But it doesn't matter, it's ok and even common in 2024 to have no personality.
What I also mean is that nobody bought those games. EW1 sold 4M copies (because Mikami, because "the New RE4 is here", but in fact no) and 2 sold like shit (a little less than 1 million...). I didn't find any numbers for Ghostwire but knowing nobody who played the games and that it was on sale at 19€ after 2 months isn't a good sign.
I bought EW1, EW2, Ghostwire Tokyo, all on day one. I bought the DLCs of EW1 on day one. I did my part.
So should I receive lessons from people who buy nothing and then "oh nooo why closing the studio ? the gamez were awesooooome? " ? I don't think so.
I am saddened of what happened to this studio. But fuck nobody bought their games... Sure I'd prefer that MS manage the thing differently, integrate the team into another, modeling it differently...
But it just pisses me off to see all the internet shitting on "oh no Tango, my fav gamezzzzzz" while they didn't buy any of their games or EW1 at 9$ in a sale... That's so hypocritical.
Oh, it's definitely viable, but the question here is that could someone have done better as in kept Xbox alive longer or made them successful and that door closed well before Spencer got the seat.
I disagree with this big time. If Xbox would have come out with some bangers I think they could have kept themselves in the race. You can't continue to release mid game after mid game and keep saying "we know we need more games" for like a decade and then wonder why the console sales start to crater. Especially when your competition is crushing it.
Counterpoint :
Phil’s an incompetent buffoon who was only in it for the money. He’s proven on numerous occasions to know nothing about gaming, Mattrick was an escape goat and could have done a far better job if he stayed on. He delivered the best games Xbox One had to offer, and it only all fell apart when Phil took over.
But before Phil became head honcho at Xbox, wasn't he in a leadership position in the games division? I can't keep all the corporate titles straight, but afaik, he was in upper management over the Xbox Games division for many years, prior to becoming head of Xbox.
I am questioning your statement that we should "forgive Phil the position he inherited." I think Phil helped to create the position he inherited.
Oh, absolutely, he's definitely played a part in the X1 being what it was, but I'm specifically referring to the idea that he killed xbox, when he gave it a 2nd life. It was already dead in 2014.
Don Mattick spent 15 years at EA before joining Microsoft and overseeing the X360 era. You make it sound like Phil couldn’t do anything during XBO time and had just to wait, which is blatantly wrong.Oh, absolutely, he's definitely played a part in the X1 being what it was, but I'm specifically referring to the idea that he killed xbox, when he gave it a 2nd life. It was already dead in 2014.
Ok, I see.
Btw, not to nitpick, but do we actually know that for a fact -- that Xbox was "already dead" in 2014, and only Spencer saved it?
I know I've heard that story many times, but I'm also aware of how these stories can get going and then assume the mantle of truth, when the historical reality was a bit different. I don't know the historical facts myself, so I'm not disputing you. I'm just asking whether we know this to be an actual, historical fact -- that Xbox was on the brink of being killed in 2014, and it was only because Phil Spencer came to the rescue that it lived to see another decade?
Or is the actual story more complicated and nuanced than that? In part, I'm asking because I know how easily these sorts of "heroic" stories can get started, especially around (formerly) beloved figures like Phil Spencer.
"So Satya becomes the CEO in February. Then the question is, do we go forward with Xbox? Because we're getting really outsold by PlayStation in the market at this point. Do we stay invested in it? Or do we make a different decision?
He and I had a discussion, and I made a pitch. I said, "You know, gaming can be a real important consumer category for the company." He didn't quite understand it yet, not from an intelligence standpoint, but he just hadn't been close to it. But he was willing to make a bet on us as a team."
Ok I'll finally bite .... serious question... please explain to me how a game (Hi-Fi rush) that was MS exclusive to Pc/Xbox and included in their flagship subscription service is expected to SELL a lot of copies ? Reminding that if you have gamepass you can play it and/or you can subscribe for cheap and play it ...The outrage after the closure of Tango Gameworks is surprising me (well not that much since it belongs to Microsoft / so it is another good reason to shit on them).
First of all I'm a fan of Mikami, RE is in my top 3 series and I played all of them on day one.
The Evil Within was imo an average game, at best, bland in most parts.
TEW 2 was worst, it looked like a bad independent game.
Ghostwire Tokyo was also VERY bland and pretty bad.
HiFi Rush was good but people didn't play it... I mean it isn't on playstation.
So basicaly all of those games sold bad, had quite bad reviews (outside of HiFi Rush) and didn't make any money. MS close them "oh no I loved those games, well I didn't buy any of them, but... ah no no I bought EW2 at 5$ on sale !!! Fuck MS ! What happened?"
I dunno... Hypocritical is the word that comes to my mind.
Fable looks fire
If they had someone competent in charge they could have turned it around.Counterpoint
None of that matters, since the Microsoft board wanted to shutter Xbox down in the X1 generation.
If they had someone competent in charge they could have turned it around.
I'm not ignoring those points, and again YES they made a bad decision (after Lionhead nothing surprises me from them). And you're right you don't need to buy a game to give your opinion about MS shutting down the studio... but to me it is sad to see dozens of tweet getting 10/20M of views, more view than for the trailers of those games...Aaron Greenberg was right there telling you that you are wrong. Hi Fi Rush exceeded expectations and yet Tango gets shut down regardless. Matt Booty is saying they want smaller, more award winning games which is exactly what Hi Fi Rush is. But you are so hellbent on pointing out the "hypocrisy" of gamers that you ignoring the words of Microsoft's executives that entirely contradict this decision. And I don't know where you got the notion that you have to buy your way in to have an opinion on these decisions. Wanting Xbox leaders to make the right choices and wanting their actions and words to actually match up doesn't require a proof of purchase. All of that is just contrived ways of defending that "$3 trillion dollar corporation".
I'm not ignoring those points, and again YES they made a bad decision (after Lionhead nothing surprises me from them). And you're right you don't need to buy a game to give your opinion about MS shutting down the studio... but to me it is sad to see dozens of tweet getting 10/20M of views, more view than for the trailers of those games...
You can give your opinion, but the fact that you didn't buy (and sometimes play) any of those games, make me think that at least you shouldn't be so vocal about it. Like "man, chill, you never supported the studio anyway".
Forza HorizonIf any exclusives goes to PS, one that is obvious is killer instinct. It boggles my mind how much Xbox is fumbling right now left and right.
I’m thinking they’re ”listening” and doing micro-adjustments but still working toward the same longterm plan nobody but themselves know the details of.He has said this quite a few times in his ten years but you know what? Does he “understand you”?
I don’t think he and his teams ever did.
Phil was VP of MGS in 2009. He most definitely had a strong hand in what was being delivered in 2014. He didn't walk into someone else's mess, at least not from a games perspective.You've misread the room.
Phil Spencer became head of Xbox in 2014. Whatever games were coming out at the time were already coming out. The question for Microsoft was do you put R&D money into Xbox Series X and S and why bother?
What Phil Spencer promised them in exchange for continued hardware development was insane returns a kin to Netflix.
He was able to talk them into acquisitions after the promise of GamePass and it showing some signs of increasing MAUs, but they didn't have the development teams or corporate policy to create bangers. Their contractor policies alone are impossible to work many games through.
There's still people that want to blame consumers for Xbox self-inflicted wounds. Unfucking believable. I guess there's just some that will go counterpoint, no matter how silly they sound.Aaron Greenberg was right there telling you that you are wrong. Hi Fi Rush exceeded expectations and yet Tango gets shut down regardless. Matt Booty is saying they want smaller, more award winning games which is exactly what Hi Fi Rush is. But you are so hellbent on pointing out the "hypocrisy" of gamers that you ignoring the words of Microsoft's executives that entirely contradict this decision. And I don't know where you got the notion that you have to buy your way in to have an opinion on these decisions. Wanting Xbox leaders to make the right choices and wanting their actions and words to actually match up doesn't require a proof of purchase. All of that is just contrived ways of defending that "$3 trillion dollar corporation".
I can't decide if they're taking the piss on purpose or all the managers legitimately can't communicate with one another to save their lives.