The Wii U Speculation Thread V: The Final Frontier

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I have to disagree with you, nothing can limit starfox from being many different genres, the closest example would be Star Wars franchise with its many spinoffs,,,also if u look at my original post I said Retro would be working on something unexpected like Advance Wars, and I also believe that Retro should work on something else other than StarFox.



interesting find :/ ,,,maybe some other game with another Disney protagonist ?

I agree 100 percent.

Every single time someone brings up how limiting Star Fox is in it's potential, all a person has to do is point to Star Wars and Star Trek.

Star Fox Adventures had the right idea about Star Fox visiting different planets and going on different adventures on each planet. Because Star Fox is all about space traveling from planet to planet, you can really do many types of genres.

I also had an idea for a Star Fox third person shooter where you control Star Fox and you team up with Falco, running and shooting through levels and solving puzzles together.

You could talk to Peppy on a codec thing for mission briefing like how Snake talks to the Colonel on his codec. Slippy would be in charge of sending you gadgets or vehicles for you and Falco to use on missions. He would be the mechanic.
 
By the way, I noticed that a high-level Junction Point staffer's LinkedIn profile refers to working on Wii U. Part of me is still wondering if Spector lied to Nintendo Power about EM2, honestly - he could have come up with a more plausible excuse, or just been vaguer, if it actually isn't coming.

Nice find. If anyone of them were just lying as a way to keep it secret, we'll probably just go "Oh you" and keep on moving.

I have to disagree with you, nothing can limit starfox from being many different genres, the closest example would be Star Wars franchise with its many spinoffs,,,also if u look at my original post I said Retro would be working on something unexpected like Advance Wars, and I also believe that Retro should work on something else other than StarFox.

That's different than his point (which I agree with). The concept of what Star Fox is limits the audience that will accept it, not the genres the IP could be used in. To speak over-dramatically, dudebros don't want to play a game with furries aimed at children.
 
And I have to disagree with you. The only Limit starfox has is that no one wants to advance it past the on-rail flight gameplay. Look at what happened with Adventure and Assault. A lot of reviewers main complaint is that it didn't stick with the on-rail flight and tried to deviate from it. Again, StarFox could make an amazing TPS if Nintendo is willing to either out the work in themselves or outsource it to a competent company. Hell, make the main campaign 4-player co-op and you got yourself one hell of a game.

It gets no sexier than this.
 
Nice find. If anyone of them were just lying as a way to keep it secret, we'll probably just go "Oh you" and keep on moving.



That's different than his point (which I agree with). The concept of what Star Fox is limits the audience that will accept it, not the genres the IP could be used in. To speak over-dramatically, dudebros don't want to play a game with furries aimed at children.

And more so than that, fans of the series don't want to play third/first person shooters starring their favorite characters.

There is simply no sense in using Star Fox as your lead in game for the "hardcore".
 
Nice find. If anyone of them were just lying as a way to keep it secret, we'll probably just go "Oh you" and keep on moving.



That's different than his point (which I agree with). The concept of what Star Fox is limits the audience that will accept it, not the genres the IP could be used in. To speak over-dramatically, dudebros don't want to play a game with furries aimed at children.


Fuck dudebros.

If we're going to just make games based on what dudebros want, then lets just stop making Kirby and Donkey Kong and Pikmin while we're at it.
 
I've reported an interview where Spector explain Epic Mickey is planned as a trilogy so surely the third title will come to Wii U.

Or, it could AGAIN be a PR twist, why risking to divert the audience susceptible of buying the Wii version (scheduled for september if i remember right) by revealing the existence of a Wii U one that may release 2 months after. And we saw that nearly none studios could really announce their Wii U project this past year (NDA, etc.), so maybe what they said about it was just a weird way to say they can't further comment on it (doubtful). Or they count on the backward compatibility and they'll only make a Wii version of Epic Mickey 2 but include on the disc a padlet support when played on Wii U.

I think that last bit is least likely, since that's not how Nintendo has historically implemented BC.

I just don't get why Spector would claim that EM2 was "so far" into development by the time Wii U was "announced" as an excuse - considering when EM1 was completed, EM2 couldn't have been more than 5-6 months into development, if that, by the time Cafe dev kits became available.

That's different than his point (which I agree with). The concept of what Star Fox is limits the audience that will accept it, not the genres the IP could be used in. To speak over-dramatically, dudebros don't want to play a game with furries aimed at children.

Not how I'd put it, of course, but that's basically what I meant.
 
I also had an idea for a Star Fox third person shooter where you control Star Fox and you team up with Falco, running and shooting through levels and solving puzzles together.
This is perhaps my most hoped-for direction for StarFox. You could put flying segments in as boss fights and certain story-driving sequences, but on-foot planet exploration would be fantastic.

As far as multiple-character play goes, perhaps they could look to the Zelda series' co-op mechanics for an example of one good way to do this? Each person in your party could learn different skills, and at times you'd have different characters available to you. I'm also imagining backtracking for collection purposes where you can bring different characters with you to retrieve items and skills you might not have had access to in your first visit.

Lots of possibilities for this formula..
 
So Versus XIII isn't at E3

Nibel, post if you're ok, man.

Much like BG&E2, this is a game that will likely never come out (at least in its current form).

Thankfully, I don't see Nintendo compromising or bending too far in their efforts to pursue this audience.



You won't see them make Call of Duty, no. We've been over this. But at the same time, they do want this segment of gamer, and they will do what they can to secure them. They'll make games that appeal more to them than Kirby and Donkey Kong and Mario. But that game will not be Star Fox.
 
Oh, I don't think Retro is working on Metroid Prime HD, if that's what you took away from my post. Simply that a Metroid Prime HD could theoretically appeal to a similar 'mass market' audience as BioShock does.

I was just a little bit nostalgic. What I was mostly impressed with Metroid Prime is that it was so un-Nintendo and so non-kiddie oriented, though the game kept the typical Nintendo elements that make most of their games enjoyable.

It's like if Retro were a sort of grown-up side of Nintendo from a certain point of view.

For example, the game was a shooter, but had a strong exploration component, which included not only looking the number of environments you could explore, but also the possibility of scanning the enemies and get to know the background of the various species and the history behind them. This exploration and analytical side is very Nintendo-ish. The shooting side was not, but it was essential for making the exploration believable and immersed in a atmosphere of fear and hostility. A win-win choice.

I think the bigger benefice Retro brings to Nintendo is exactly plunging the franchises in a different ink that permits the game to have an unique footprint. Instead, the games developed at Nintendo are much more similar to each other in many of the parts that make up the entire mosaic.
 
AceBandage said:
You won't see them make Call of Duty, no. We've been over this. But at the same time, they do want this segment of gamer, and they will do what they can to secure them. They'll make games that appeal more to them than Kirby and Donkey Kong and Mario. But that game will not be Star Fox.
Oh, but of course.. I just wonder how far they're willing to go.

Part of me wonders if the dudebro audience's built-in suspicion/distaste for Nintendo will be a limiting factor. It's gonna be a tough nut to crack, I think.
 
And more so than that, fans of the series don't want to play third/first person shooters starring their favorite characters.

There is simply no sense in using Star Fox as your lead in game for the "hardcore".

Good addition from a different perspective.

Fuck dudebros.

If we're going to just make games based on what dudebros want, then lets just stop making Kirby and Donkey Kong and Pikmin while we're at it.

You may feel that way, but it's because of them that Nintendo has taken, at least in part, the direction they're planning with Wii U.

The console can still have the Kirbys. DKs, Pikmins, etc., but there's no reason to try to use them in a manner to appeal to that group. A new IP would be better suited for something like that.
 
Oh, but of course.. I just wonder how far they're willing to go.

Part of me wonders if the dudebro audience's built-in suspicion/distaste for Nintendo will be a limiting factor. It's gonna be a tough nut to crack, I think.
eh I don't even think it's THAT tough a nut to crack. Secure the games, market the games for the wiiU. That's the recipe. Do that and you'll see a level of success for those titles and developers will be more comfortable to continue the support, and fans will become more comfortable buying games on the system.

Unfortunately those 2 steps are something we aren't sure whether nintendo can do and maintain for a full generation, but we'll see.
 
I was just a little bit nostalgic. What I was mostly impressed with Metroid Prime is that it was so un-Nintendo and so non-kiddie oriented, though the game kept the typical Nintendo elements that make most of their games enjoyable.

It's like if Retro were a sort of grown-up side of Nintendo from a certain point of view.

For example, the game was a shooter, but had a strong exploration component, which included not only looking the number of environments you could explore, but also the possibility of scanning the enemies and get to know the background of the various species and the history behind them. This exploration and analytical side is very Nintendo-ish. The shooting side was not, but it was essential for making the exploration believable and immersed in a atmosphere of fear and hostility. A win-win choice.

I think the bigger benefice Retro brings to Nintendo is exactly plunging the franchises in a different ink that permits the game to have an unique footprint. Instead, the games developed at Nintendo are much more similar to each other in many of the parts that make up the entire mosaic.

Totally. I've always firmly believed Metroid Prime shouldn't just be held to the same lofty historic standards as Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, but should also be considered a better modern game than both. It's in my top five best games Nintendo has ever produced, as well as my personal top five games ever made. My praise for that game knows no bounds.

And I think much of what you touched on is exactly why hypothetical Metroid Prime HD would have been perfect for the 'mass market'. Less rigid shooting controls would have been a necessity, along with modern hardware graphics and presentation. Probably some voice work, mostly on audio logs. But everything else there is exactly what people get from games like BioShock and the like.

Only better. Much better.

That pitch for Metroid Dread, or whatever it was Retro was working on, the horror style game with a narrator like antagonist, is the kind of direction Metroid could go in without losing the core philosophy of design, while appealing to the older market.
 
That would be the point. *evilgrin*

Alternate proposition:
the main screen during the sizzle reel shows what's happening on one's TV - while the sidescreens show the corresponding subscreen footage that correlates with the game on the TV. This would also produce a smaller level of chaos and excitement.

Thats more like it. If Nintendo has to "confuse people" to keep them talking about them then something went horribly wrong. Kinda sounds like last E3, but oh well. This time they have games, so we will be blown away!
 
Totally. I've always firmly believed Metroid Prime shouldn't just be held to the same lofty historic standards as Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, but should also be considered a better modern game than both. It's in my top five best games Nintendo has ever produced, as well as my personal top five games ever made. My praise for that game knows no bounds.

And I think much of what you touched on is exactly why hypothetical Metroid Prime HD would have been perfect for the 'mass market'. Less rigid shooting controls would have been a necessity, along with modern hardware graphics and presentation. Probably some voice work, mostly on audio logs. But everything else there is exactly what people get from games like BioShock and the like.

Only better. Much better.

That pitch for Metroid Dread, or whatever it was Retro was working on, the horror style game with a narrator like antagonist, is the kind of direction Metroid could go in without losing the core philosophy of design, while appealing to the older market.

Metroid Prime 1.5?

Retro has a lot of good ideas laying around that they could probably combine to make an amazing game that could appeal to a lot of people.
The question is, what direction they do take.
 
Still don't know about you guys, but I still would love it if Retro bought all the old Rare IPs from Rare. A Retro made Perfect Dark or Banjo Kazooie would be awesome.
 
eh I don't even think it's THAT tough a nut to crack. Secure the games, market the games for the wiiU. That's the recipe. Do that and you'll see a level of success for those titles and developers will be more comfortable to continue the support, and fans will become more comfortable buying games on the system.

Unfortunately those 2 steps are something we aren't sure whether nintendo can do and maintain for a full generation, but we'll see.

While not a full generation, Harker did say in another thread that Nintendo will be matching marketing dollars for select launch titles. It will be interesting to see how long that continues.

Still don't know about you guys, but I still would love it if Retro bought all the old Rare IPs from Rare. A Retro made Perfect Dark or Banjo Kazooie would be awesome.

You mean Nintendo from MS? I don't see MS doing that.
 
While not a full generation, Harker did say in another thread that Nintendo will be matching marketing dollars for select launch titles. It will be interesting to see how long that continues.
I genuinely believe Nintendo has learned their lesson for launching a system. I think they'll secure most of the games coming out around that time frame and help market them, but for some reason I have doubts that they'll continue to chase after the games and offer marketing support for year 2, and year 3, and year 4, and year 5....
 
I agree 100 percent.

Every single time someone brings up how limiting Star Fox is in it's potential, all a person has to do is point to Star Wars and Star Trek.

Star Fox Adventures had the right idea about Star Fox visiting different planets and going on different adventures on each planet. Because Star Fox is all about space traveling from planet to planet, you can really do many types of genres.

I also had an idea for a Star Fox third person shooter where you control Star Fox and you team up with Falco, running and shooting through levels and solving puzzles together.

You could talk to Peppy on a codec thing for mission briefing like how Snake talks to the Colonel on his codec. Slippy would be in charge of sending you gadgets or vehicles for you and Falco to use on missions. He would be the mechanic.

the possibility are endless ;)


Nice find. If anyone of them were just lying as a way to keep it secret, we'll probably just go "Oh you" and keep on moving.


That's different than his point (which I agree with). The concept of what Star Fox is limits the audience that will accept it, not the genres the IP could be used in. To speak over-dramatically, dudebros don't want to play a game with furries aimed at children.
first of all since when nintendo (and specifically Retro) goal become the "dudebro" ?? Hardcore gamers in Nintendo eyes are not those people, they are you,me,people in here whom are passion about Nintendo mascot and also looking for deep, rich experiences. many people loved games like Team Fortress with its "cartoony" characters and I dont think that Fox and friends wont be any less "cool" if they have been made into this big epic galactic battle.
you said that its audeance wont accept it, but then again rembmer when Metroid Prime 1 was unveiled ? the meltdowns were all over the place, heck u still find ppl that want metroid to be back in 2D other than this "FPA" Crap !!! StarFox needs a new audience to be introduce to and the only way to do so is by taking a new approach to the series.

And more so than that, fans of the series don't want to play third/first person shooters starring their favorite characters.

There is simply no sense in using Star Fox as your lead in game for the "hardcore".
again read what I just wrote above to bg especially the last paragraph.
 
I genuinely believe Nintendo has learned their lesson for launching a system. I think they'll secure most of the games coming out around that time frame and help market them, but for some reason I have doubts that they'll continue to chase after the games and offer marketing support for year 2, and year 3, and year 4, and year 5....

All depends on how lucrative it becomes.
Also depends on if third parties find success on the system.

They might not need to keep paying for games.
 
I'm okay with Retro hypotheticly making something that can attract some sort of mainstream attraction like BioShock.

As long as it's not as halfassed as BioShock though.
 
eh I don't even think it's THAT tough a nut to crack. Secure the games, market the games for the wiiU. That's the recipe. Do that and you'll see a level of success for those titles and developers will be more comfortable to continue the support, and fans will become more comfortable buying games on the system.

Unfortunately those 2 steps are something we aren't sure whether nintendo can do and maintain for a full generation, but we'll see.
The bolded point is the one concern I hadn't voiced yet. My skepticism comes not just from a reticence that I perceive among that target crowd. I am also suspicious of Nintendo being willing to go far enough to attract and retain this crowd; it would likely be a campaign that would probably take several years and more than just a new IP or two.

I also think they'd also be fighting in a gaming media environment that isn't very friendly, which might make it more of an uphill fight. Every mistake, every complaint, every bit of hesitation would be amplified and broadcast from one megasite to the next. On the bright side, this could keep Nintendo on their toes.

If Nintendo does indeed pursue this crowd with gusto, I hope they're successful. I have dudebro tendencies that would appreciate their efforts, haha..
 
I genuinely believe Nintendo has learned their lesson for launching a system. I think they'll secure most of the games coming out around that time frame and help market them, but for some reason I have doubts that they'll continue to chase after the games and offer marketing support for year 2, and year 3, and year 4, and year 5....

With any luck, they won't need to by year 3.
 
I don´t see Retro doing a Star Fox for a few reasons:

1. StarFox 64 3D Bombed
2. If they want to go for "the COD crowd" then Star Fox just won´t cut it.
3. "The COD crowd" likes FPS... alot. So why Starfox?

I am certain it will be a FPS, but with some new and innovative stuff. Not just a "run in, shoot everything and you win" kind of game.

But as usual. It could be something totally diffrent. FPS is just the most likely scenario.
 
While not a full generation, Harker did say in another thread that Nintendo will be matching marketing dollars for select launch titles. It will be interesting to see how long that continues.

Well, their "Wii would like to play" adds were both fresh and effective back in '06/'07. Their marketing has seemingly taken a nosedive since. Not that they don't advertise, but back then it seemed like their marketing team just "got it." They were able to sell the unique features of the system to their target audience in a quirky Nintendo style. And the familiarity of those two Japanese dudes carried over to follow up commercials. I'd like to see an add campaign of that calibur for Wii U. It's not all about dollars. They need a marketing team w/ some savvy.
 
All depends on how lucrative it becomes.
Also depends on if third parties find success on the system.

They might not need to keep paying for games.
if it isn't lucrative, Nintendo didn't do a good enough job. All the big games that they should be securing have potential to sell like hotcakes. So if they don't, my stance is they didn't do a good enough job with the marketing.

With any luck, they won't need to by year 3.
would be great if they finally reached the point where games were naturally assumed to be on the console rather than having to be chased. One could hope.

The bolded point is the one concern I hadn't voiced yet. My skepticism comes not just from a reticence that I perceive among that target crowd. I am also suspicious of Nintendo being willing to go far enough to attract and retain this crowd; it would likely be a campaign that would probably take several years and more than just a new IP or two.

I also think they'd also be fighting in a gaming media environment that isn't very friendly, which might make it more of an uphill fight. Every mistake, every complaint, every bit of hesitation would be amplified and broadcast from one megasite to the next. On the bright side, this could keep Nintendo on their toes.

If Nintendo does indeed pursue this crowd with gusto, I hope they're successful. I have dudebro tendencies that would appreciate their efforts, haha..
easy solution, don't make mistakes!
 
Well, their "Wii would like to play" adds were both fresh and effective back in '06/'07. Their marketing has seemingly taken a nosedive since. Not that they don't advertise, but back then it seemed like their marketing team just "got it." They were able to sell the unique features of the system to their target audience in a quirky Nintendo style. And the familiarity of those two Japanese dudes carried over to follow up commercials. I'd like to see an add campaign of that calibur for Wii U. It's not all about dollars. They need a marketing team w/ some savvy.

I think we'll see a new direction with the Wii U.
Similar to this.

A bit more edgy and current that can draw in new people.
 
Retro talk AGAIN? They are good and all but you guys make it seem like every game would be better if they developed it.


Anyway, regarding Epic Mickey 2 on Wii U - Spector seemingly denied that they were working on a version but he could have just been talking about Junction Point. The developer porting the game to PS3/360 is supposed to be working on a Wii U launch title...
 
Starfox could actually go after the CoD crowd. Ace Combat managed to copy the CoD model in the last console release, and if Nintendo were willing to lose the on-rails element of Starfox (they have sin and punishment, plus kid icarus for that now), they could push it in an Ace Combat direction... I dunno. I want to see a new Starfox which is a kitch version of Rogue Squadron, if anything.
 
first of all since when nintendo (and specifically Retro) goal become the "dudebro" ?? Hardcore gamers in Nintendo eyes are not those people, they are you,me,people in here whom are passion about Nintendo mascot and also looking for deep, rich experiences. many people loved games like Team Fortress with its "cartoony" characters and I dont think that Fox and friends wont be any less "cool" if they have been made into this big epic galactic battle.
you said that its audeance wont accept it, but then again rembmer when Metroid Prime 1 was unveiled ? the meltdowns were all over the place, heck u still find ppl that want metroid to be back in 2D other than this "FPA" Crap !!! StarFox needs a new audience to be introduce to and the only way to do so is by taking a new approach to the series.

Nope. The "hardcore gamer" Nintendo is referring to is exactly that group. Nintendo already has people like us so there's no "real" reason to go after us.

And that group of gamer is not going to be willing to buy into the concepts of certain Nintendo IPs. Star Fox, Pikmin, Donkey Kong, and even Mario all fall under that. That group isn't the one having the meltdowns over Metroid Prime. We are. Star Fox is what it is and expecting it to go beyond that will just set you up for disappointment and losses for Nintendo by spending more than necessary to take it in that direction.
 
Retro talk AGAIN? They are good and all but you guys make it seem like every game would be better if they developed it.


Anyway, regarding Epic Mickey 2 on Wii U - Spector seemingly denied that they were working on a version but he could have just been talking about Junction Point. The developer porting the game to PS3/360 is supposed to be working on a Wii U launch title...

Not better, just different.
Retro brings a unique style to Nintendo.
 
Resurrecting past franchises is a great idea. The new hardware opens up many new experiences within a franchise. Ice Climbers, F-Zero, Mother
lol
, Wario, etc can be completely new games based on what can be done with the Wii U.

Don't be afraid to take chances Ninty, you took one with Kid Icarus, and that game was excellent. Feels very new and refreshing.

It would also make those who sprout the "regurgitated IPs" bull to look even more ridiculous.
 
Western support? Hahaha!
{*wipes tears from eyes*}

I'd give it a 2, but your scale starts at 7, sooo.. 2

fixed

Well, their "Wii would like to play" adds were both fresh and effective back in '06/'07. Their marketing has seemingly taken a nosedive since. Not that they don't advertise, but back then it seemed like their marketing team just "got it." They were able to sell the unique features of the system to their target audience in a quirky Nintendo style. And the familiarity of those two Japanese dudes carried over to follow up commercials. I'd like to see an add campaign of that calibur for Wii U. It's not all about dollars. They need a marketing team w/ some savvy.

Oh no not first party stuff. Nintendo is doing that for 3rd party games. So for example if Killer Freaks is a select launch title, which I believe it is, Nintendo is matching the advertising dollars for it. So if Ubisoft was planning say $10M, Nintendo is giving them an additional $10M to advertise KF.
 
They don't own Bungie, but they do own 343 studios. Halo 4 is their first original game, which I think should be quite good. They've got a LOT of talented people working there.

Kynan Pearson Lead designer from the Metroid Prime series
Jason Behr Lead level designer from Metroid Prime
Armando Troisi Lead Cinematic Designer from the Mass Effect franchise
CJ Markham Rockstar Lead animator who worked on GTA4,Red Dead Redemption,LA Noire,and Max Payne 3
Gustavo Rasche Lead environment artist for God of War
Sotaro Tojima Composer MGS4

And a bunch of other guys and gals from Valve, Id Software, SSM, Bungie, etc. It's like a superteam of western developers.
 
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