Always-honest
Banned
I doubt that will happen. And i think it might just bring the 720 a bit sooner than anticipated.
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The Wii U Speculation Thread VI: The Undiscovered Country
- Thread starter GameplayWhore
- Start date
- Status
I doubt that will happen. And i think it might just bring the 720 a bit sooner than anticipated.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I've not seen a consensus but I'd put it at around 5x.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Why would you need NFC for anything?
Father_Brain
Banned
superannuation has elaborated on his/her rationale for the Rayman Legends speculation: Ubisoft has a new Montpellier sub-studio dedicated to Wii U development.
And this resume refers to "Nintendo WiiU's Rayman Legends," with no mention of any other platforms.
And this resume refers to "Nintendo WiiU's Rayman Legends," with no mention of any other platforms.
To sell more merchandise.
Money for useless merch? Er....i mean collectibles! Yay!
SaintMadeOfPlaster
Member
If the "gamer card" rumors are true, it would be awesome to just put your card next to your controller and have all the data it collected instantly transfer to the Wii U.
I can't see how it can enhance any games, however. It's just a way to drain money from the consumer.
This is the same thing that happened for Wii - separate port teams. Don't know if you should look at that as any more. Ubisoft is doing the same thing for AC3, for example.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
The possibilites of NFC are endless.
Iwata figurine???
Bangs powerup.
Iwata figurine???
Bangs powerup.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Exactly.
If NFC is going to be used I want it either to be something functional and valuable to the user, that enhances the gameplay without exploiting the consumers.
If it's going to be used for gimmicky bonuses, I'd rather them be truly gimmicky. EG: Game specific hats for your Mii tied to 3DS game carts.
If NFC is going to be used I want it either to be something functional and valuable to the user, that enhances the gameplay without exploiting the consumers.
If it's going to be used for gimmicky bonuses, I'd rather them be truly gimmicky. EG: Game specific hats for your Mii tied to 3DS game carts.
fixed. (iwata brazzer edition!)
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
Using the Iwata figurine in any game should make the player's character [laugh]
Genius! And add golden pantsus!
GameplayWhore
Member
Going forward I would want *all* devices and as many objects as posible to have NFC tags describing themselves, either directly or by UUID plus details accessed networkedly. I want to press my controller against my couch so a replica appears on screen for Travis to sit on. I want to read in the specs of my refrigerator and have it appear in a Smash Bros. game for Donkey Kong to throw at people. I want a racing game that'll read the identity of whatever car I have in real life, access that manufacturer's specs database for general model and color, and create a reasonable replica for me to tear down city streets in.
I mean, come on, just because we know Nintendo will just use this tech as a cash grab and to limit users doesn't mean we can't have fun speculating what could be possible with the protocol, guys! This is still a speculation thread for like another twelve hours at least!
ColdBlooder
Banned
"Scan" your 3DS game to unlock something in the Wii U version.
Transfer Pokemons from 3DS to Wii U
Share Streetpass data
Register your game on Club Nintendo with just a swipe over the controller.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
^^^
This shot is from GAF in April 2006, from teh WayBackMachine.
The talk of community and what topics people like to see on the Gaming forum made me curious if my memory of what it used to be is the same as what it was. It mostly confirmed my memory. The thread titles are much shorter and thus easier to read. Plus there is little in the way of games and news I've never hear about before.
I Stalk Alone
Member
I know this is a bit of a stretch but I want to play a bit of a game here....
taken from here
The gamecube was a very, very balanced machine so much so that it was "on par" graphically with xbox. If we had a normal generational leap from gamecube to Wii and xbox to xbox 360 we probably would have had something around 2x performance for every 18 months at roughly the same costs from the previous 18 months so if wii were to release in november 2007 (i know it released in 2006) it should be around 6 years which would be about 8x the power of gamecube if it released in november 2007 at a price of $199 at break even and $250 with a packin game and the wii remote and nunchuck as extra costs. 8x gamcube would be around 90.4 GFLOPS
If we extrapolate from that and do another three moores law generations we would be in the vincinty of 64X the GFLOPS of the GC for what would theoretically be what the WiiU would be this year if it were released for $250 add in $50-100 and we are in the range of around $299-349 for the WiiU depending on the extra cost of components not atributed to the console but the tablet itself and the extra controller.
I would say that it would be safe to assume that Nintendo would break even at $299 (including tablet) with something 64x the power of the gamecube going from the beginning of designing their 1998 GPU to the start of designing their GPU in 2009.
64x Gamecube = 723.2 GFLOPS
From this it is in my view safe to assume that nintendo will at least break even at $299 (depending on tablet price) with something exactly 3x the gpu power of xbox 360. This also kind of shows hwo the XBox 360 was about a generation and a half over what would have been affordable to do at $250
Lets go to 2009 and find a gpu roughly 3x the power of the xbox 360 and we have one candidate released at the end of 2008 and widely available at the start of 2009 so that nintendo can begin to redesign and customise and die shrink thew chip ready for taping out sometime in June 2011
Radeon HD 4830 (released Oct 21, 2008)
RV770 LE (55nm)
1024MB GDDR4 900mhz
575mhz core clock
736GLFOPS
TDP 95 watts
640SPU
in 2011 AMD released this chip on 40nm die I would also assume that nintendo would have also gone to 40nm in design and we now have two candidates available
Radeon HD 6570 (released April 19 2011)
Turks PRO 40nm
1024MB DDR3
650mhz core clock
624 GFLOPS
TDP 44 Watts
480SPU
Radeon HD 6670 (released April 19 2011)
Turks XT 40nm
1024MB GDDR5
800mhz core clock
768GFLOPS
TDP 66 watts
480SPU
If we were to look at TDP only these GPU's would be too much power to go in a case like the WiiU (assuming the current box will not get bigger) we would need something around 40-45 watts.
Since the WiiU GPU taped out around April-June 2011 it is possible that 32nm is now available and at roughly the same cost. the 6570 is a little underpowered but is already 44 watts a little tweaking and a die shrink could get it there but I am more inclined to go for the 6670.
I am starting to think that Nintendo will at least try to break even at $299 and the only maximum GPU candidates would be something along the lines of a 4830-6670 but on a 32nm die shrink so that the TDP would not exceed 45 watts.
I believe that the architecture for the WiiU GPu will exceed that of the first candidate and probably exceed that of AMD's own update of their 2009 design and run at 45 watts. SO to all those who believe that the GPU will only be 360GFLOPS then you are probably expecting the WiiU to release at $199 for those that believe in at least 720GFLOPS then you should expect a price point of $299 and be safe to make profit.
Is it possible to go beyond the 64X Gamecube or 3X xbox 360 performance? Ofcourse but you have to pay more money for that gpu. at $349 you can probably get ~1000GFLOPS or 1TFLOP but then you would be looking at maybe a slight increase in box size not much but it might be needed (though I am not an expert on airflow) to allow for that kind of power.
3x XBOX 360 performance doesn't seem a lot but it is up to standard in how nintendo would have normally gone to at least be profitable from day one with their console. what does 3x xbox 360 gpu performance get us visually? If we stick with the same visual fidelity but just increase from 720p@30fps -1080p@30fps then 3x will be able to do it including 2 tablets plus a little more to spare. This is where you will get the "on par" calls that many have been touting. It is not lying it is on par but just higher resolution. same effects same frames same looks just higher resolution and ability to run 2 tablets. Many PS3 and 360 ports will be like this.
If we stick with 720p but at @60fps then we can still run the same game on one tablet also running at 60fps but if we want two tablets then there might be some tricks needed to get all thre devices running at 60fps asit would push the GPU to over 110% but maybe still possible. But this is also still on par with xbox 360 as it is using the same effects and same rsolution only the frame rate is increased. Many ps3 and 360 ports in the next two years will be like this.
If we stick with 720p@30fps just like xbox 360 then it is possible to get double the visual effects on two tablets and the mainscreen or three times the effects on the main screen and a tablet using minimal effects. here is where you will find a game like the new zelda and many exclusive titles going to put the 3x power to use o rmany single player only games.
This is what being on par and at the same time being more powerful means. Nintendo will provide "on par" performance to the current hd twins but be able to provide 3x the player experience on the same console locally and online or more powerful performance for a singular online experince. Social gaming at its finest? I think so. Remember when I talked about assymetrical gaming being the gamechanger? I really believe this is what we will be seeing more of in the conference. People playing the same game together in the same room but playing in sometimes three completely different styles at the same time while providing HD gaming that is now gained popularity since 2011.
If Nintendo hopefully goes to $349 at around 1.2TFLOP then good on them, but having something 5x the performance of the xbox 360 might prove costly with getting the consumers to market, but time will tell and we will find out in just over 12 days.
Feel free to rip apart my speculation. It was just a thought that occured to me so if I am way off base let me know.
taken from here
The gamecube was a very, very balanced machine so much so that it was "on par" graphically with xbox. If we had a normal generational leap from gamecube to Wii and xbox to xbox 360 we probably would have had something around 2x performance for every 18 months at roughly the same costs from the previous 18 months so if wii were to release in november 2007 (i know it released in 2006) it should be around 6 years which would be about 8x the power of gamecube if it released in november 2007 at a price of $199 at break even and $250 with a packin game and the wii remote and nunchuck as extra costs. 8x gamcube would be around 90.4 GFLOPS
If we extrapolate from that and do another three moores law generations we would be in the vincinty of 64X the GFLOPS of the GC for what would theoretically be what the WiiU would be this year if it were released for $250 add in $50-100 and we are in the range of around $299-349 for the WiiU depending on the extra cost of components not atributed to the console but the tablet itself and the extra controller.
I would say that it would be safe to assume that Nintendo would break even at $299 (including tablet) with something 64x the power of the gamecube going from the beginning of designing their 1998 GPU to the start of designing their GPU in 2009.
64x Gamecube = 723.2 GFLOPS
From this it is in my view safe to assume that nintendo will at least break even at $299 (depending on tablet price) with something exactly 3x the gpu power of xbox 360. This also kind of shows hwo the XBox 360 was about a generation and a half over what would have been affordable to do at $250
Lets go to 2009 and find a gpu roughly 3x the power of the xbox 360 and we have one candidate released at the end of 2008 and widely available at the start of 2009 so that nintendo can begin to redesign and customise and die shrink thew chip ready for taping out sometime in June 2011
Radeon HD 4830 (released Oct 21, 2008)
RV770 LE (55nm)
1024MB GDDR4 900mhz
575mhz core clock
736GLFOPS
TDP 95 watts
640SPU
in 2011 AMD released this chip on 40nm die I would also assume that nintendo would have also gone to 40nm in design and we now have two candidates available
Radeon HD 6570 (released April 19 2011)
Turks PRO 40nm
1024MB DDR3
650mhz core clock
624 GFLOPS
TDP 44 Watts
480SPU
Radeon HD 6670 (released April 19 2011)
Turks XT 40nm
1024MB GDDR5
800mhz core clock
768GFLOPS
TDP 66 watts
480SPU
If we were to look at TDP only these GPU's would be too much power to go in a case like the WiiU (assuming the current box will not get bigger) we would need something around 40-45 watts.
Since the WiiU GPU taped out around April-June 2011 it is possible that 32nm is now available and at roughly the same cost. the 6570 is a little underpowered but is already 44 watts a little tweaking and a die shrink could get it there but I am more inclined to go for the 6670.
I am starting to think that Nintendo will at least try to break even at $299 and the only maximum GPU candidates would be something along the lines of a 4830-6670 but on a 32nm die shrink so that the TDP would not exceed 45 watts.
I believe that the architecture for the WiiU GPu will exceed that of the first candidate and probably exceed that of AMD's own update of their 2009 design and run at 45 watts. SO to all those who believe that the GPU will only be 360GFLOPS then you are probably expecting the WiiU to release at $199 for those that believe in at least 720GFLOPS then you should expect a price point of $299 and be safe to make profit.
Is it possible to go beyond the 64X Gamecube or 3X xbox 360 performance? Ofcourse but you have to pay more money for that gpu. at $349 you can probably get ~1000GFLOPS or 1TFLOP but then you would be looking at maybe a slight increase in box size not much but it might be needed (though I am not an expert on airflow) to allow for that kind of power.
3x XBOX 360 performance doesn't seem a lot but it is up to standard in how nintendo would have normally gone to at least be profitable from day one with their console. what does 3x xbox 360 gpu performance get us visually? If we stick with the same visual fidelity but just increase from 720p@30fps -1080p@30fps then 3x will be able to do it including 2 tablets plus a little more to spare. This is where you will get the "on par" calls that many have been touting. It is not lying it is on par but just higher resolution. same effects same frames same looks just higher resolution and ability to run 2 tablets. Many PS3 and 360 ports will be like this.
If we stick with 720p but at @60fps then we can still run the same game on one tablet also running at 60fps but if we want two tablets then there might be some tricks needed to get all thre devices running at 60fps asit would push the GPU to over 110% but maybe still possible. But this is also still on par with xbox 360 as it is using the same effects and same rsolution only the frame rate is increased. Many ps3 and 360 ports in the next two years will be like this.
If we stick with 720p@30fps just like xbox 360 then it is possible to get double the visual effects on two tablets and the mainscreen or three times the effects on the main screen and a tablet using minimal effects. here is where you will find a game like the new zelda and many exclusive titles going to put the 3x power to use o rmany single player only games.
This is what being on par and at the same time being more powerful means. Nintendo will provide "on par" performance to the current hd twins but be able to provide 3x the player experience on the same console locally and online or more powerful performance for a singular online experince. Social gaming at its finest? I think so. Remember when I talked about assymetrical gaming being the gamechanger? I really believe this is what we will be seeing more of in the conference. People playing the same game together in the same room but playing in sometimes three completely different styles at the same time while providing HD gaming that is now gained popularity since 2011.
If Nintendo hopefully goes to $349 at around 1.2TFLOP then good on them, but having something 5x the performance of the xbox 360 might prove costly with getting the consumers to market, but time will tell and we will find out in just over 12 days.
Feel free to rip apart my speculation. It was just a thought that occured to me so if I am way off base let me know.
Personal for me it's less about the mones but more abour space. I hope most games will stick to cards, i can sort them easily.
keep figurines for lim. Ed.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
That card info is getting rejected as "invalid". ??
...
While I couldn't care less about NFC-infused Happy Meal toys or whatever, I do like the idea of having an NFC card linked to my online cloud account. I could go to a friend's house, tap my card on the controller (and type a password), and then I'd have my game saves, settings, web bookmarks, etc available to me immediately. It's a small thing, but it's a lot easier than having to make a new profile, set up the controls, and go through all of that. Hopefully this is something they're doing with NFC, because the toys thing gets a big meh from me.
It expired on the same non-existent month it was issued. Stupid Visa.
It expired on the same non-existent month it was issued. Stupid Visa.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
None of the xbox, ps2 or cube used floating point ops in its pixel pipelines/shaders.
Umpossible. That's a perfectly valid visa card.
ReyVGM
Member
test_account
XP-39C²
I guess that is because he only worked on the WiiU version. I will be very surprised if this game is a WiiU exclusive (maybe time exclusive, but not exclusive forever).
ColdBlooder
Banned
Don´t! My uncles best friend, who knows somewhone who has heard, that someone has has been told that an anonymous developer had a cousin that had a friend that had a brother who had an uncle whos wife knows this guy who heard that if you put more than 5 figurines near the Pad... It opens the gateway to hell!
I Stalk Alone
Member
If it's exclusive to Wii U these NFC stuff would be a really good reason and following this line of speculation, we could even explain the "Exclusives Wii features" of the leaked fake trailer with a console exclusivity: Wii U SKU with its exclusives features and PC SKU.
Right and it's why - coming-back to the GTA V case and the like - I think it's useless for Nintendo to pay for ports or exclusivities. If they'are not able to charm third parties then their strategy (or its execution) is wrong. But as far as I know (your trifecta), Nintendo looks more and more attractive.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
GFLOPs on those machines were mainly vertex/general-purpose related. Comparing the GFLOPs of those machines to the GFLOPs of a unified shader GPU (plus CPU) is fairly pointless.
test_account
XP-39C²
Guessing something where they have a strong online marketplace, ads for games/DLC, and more features always bring in more customers, which brings in more business.
brochiller
Member
So who all is still going to check in here once this thread does get moved to community?
Heard you the first 10 times you've posted this.
But persistence is funny!
GameplayWhore
Member
That's kind of along the lines of what I was asking about. The tagged devices shouldn't be able to do anything advanced. They're just like those things you put in your car window so you don't have to stop your car for the toll man.
But Clapping Simulator* would require that the active side of the protocol be able to communicate with another of the same type. That's what I was wondering.
* >_>
Pretty sure the big-name people will still visit regularly as they have done so far. I, of course, will be visiting as well, since this thread (and Project Cafe announcements) is the main reason I joined NeoGaf.
I hope you see the irony of that.
What?
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
With the avalanche of rich and detailed information that we're going to get from Nintendo at e3. We won't need this speculation thread.
Guys, I'm sick.
Sick of those threads, week after week, claiming either one extreme of the Wii U potential power (on par with/less powerful than PS3/360 and more powerful than etc...)
I don't even think this last one even has a right to exist, since Vigil has been saying the Wii U version of Darksiders II looks at least as good as the other since last E3.
I'm just sick of those. Each new one tells the opposite of the last. Bottom line, we're still at square one.
Thank God there's less than 2 weeks left until E3.
Sick of those threads, week after week, claiming either one extreme of the Wii U potential power (on par with/less powerful than PS3/360 and more powerful than etc...)
I don't even think this last one even has a right to exist, since Vigil has been saying the Wii U version of Darksiders II looks at least as good as the other since last E3.
I'm just sick of those. Each new one tells the opposite of the last. Bottom line, we're still at square one.
Thank God there's less than 2 weeks left until E3.
Has this been posted?
Ubisoft LinkedIn Yoan Fanise's profile states that pre-production development of Killer Freaks from Outer Space started back in October 2009.
https://twitter.com/#!/supererogatory
Ubisoft LinkedIn Yoan Fanise's profile states that pre-production development of Killer Freaks from Outer Space started back in October 2009.
https://twitter.com/#!/supererogatory
Like I said, nobody really knows anything when it comes to it's graphical capabilities.
I don't really see why people are so bothered about the move to community. We'll only be there for less than two weeks before E3 hits, and then we'll have a conference thread, a thread for the software showcase, a thread for the round table, a thread for the developer discussion, a thread for each of the games that get announced, and probably a thread for whatever crazy console functionality that square button controls. The gaming forum will be swimming in Wii U threads. There won't be any need for a general purpose Wii U speculation/discussion thread on the gaming forum by that point, and any discussion thread we create post-E3 to follow on from these ones will be a community thread by any definition of the word.
Anyway, on a somewhat more on-topic topic, there's one crazy exclusive on my gigaton bingo card that I actually wouldn't be that surprised to appear at the conference: a Rockstar San Diego Wii U exclusive game. We haven't heard a peep from them since Red Dead Redemption in May 2010 (well, except for Undead Nightmare a few months later), which is exactly when Nintendo would have been going around third party studios trying to find partners to work with on Wii U titles. We also know that Nintendo's made a big deal about getting Rockstar on board in the past, so there's no doubt they were approached, and with a game as critically and commercially successful as RDR behind them, I'm sure Nintendo would be very happy with a R* San Diego devved game on their hands. The only question is whether Nintendo and Rockstar could come to a deal. Ordinarily I'd say no, but if Nintendo is really as serious about bringing western games to the console as they say they are, you never know. It'd also make the perfect launch title, given about two and a half years in development.
Anyway, on a somewhat more on-topic topic, there's one crazy exclusive on my gigaton bingo card that I actually wouldn't be that surprised to appear at the conference: a Rockstar San Diego Wii U exclusive game. We haven't heard a peep from them since Red Dead Redemption in May 2010 (well, except for Undead Nightmare a few months later), which is exactly when Nintendo would have been going around third party studios trying to find partners to work with on Wii U titles. We also know that Nintendo's made a big deal about getting Rockstar on board in the past, so there's no doubt they were approached, and with a game as critically and commercially successful as RDR behind them, I'm sure Nintendo would be very happy with a R* San Diego devved game on their hands. The only question is whether Nintendo and Rockstar could come to a deal. Ordinarily I'd say no, but if Nintendo is really as serious about bringing western games to the console as they say they are, you never know. It'd also make the perfect launch title, given about two and a half years in development.
gamergirly
Member
Already on thread vi lol
ReyVGM
Member
Vigil saying DS2 is on par with the PS360 versions means they just didn't make the effort to put better 'graphx' and not that the Wii U is on par with the PS360. However, people have taken it as such, even when they have other devs saying the Wii U is more powerful.
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