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The Witness |OT|

Shadous

Neo Member
Went to bed the other night thinking about
the cloud puzzle with the grey cloud in the middle
. Not a clue how to solve it.

Then I had the craziest dream:

I was messing around in town and moved the mirror such that it reflected the desert ruin laser at the cloud and caused it to rain
. I promptly woke up and thought that was the most ridiculous idea for solving something ever.

But I told myself I'd try it out anyway.

Lo and behold....


This game has infected my mind.
 
It depends on how much you appreciate design. This is probably the only game out there right now that doesn't have text on the screen telling you what to do or where to go. No objective markers to explain everything. No audio or text to tell you how puzzles work. It's a great testament of what ... 7 years designing something can do, heh. Everything can be solved with patience and examining clues which most games can't do because their clues suck.

Agreed. Maybe it is one of those things that is hard to appreciate from the outside, but the complexity that the puzzles take on without a single use of tutorial (in the modern game design sense) is pretty incredible. Not an easy feat in the least.

Current status: Created a bootleg screensaver by setting the
boat to the slowest speed going around the entire island.
(early-ish spoilers)
 

Llyrwenne

Unconfirmed Member
Current stats :
523 panels solved, +132, +4

One of the ones I'm missing is the credits gate, so I know where and how to get that one, but the other two have me stumped. They are both on the river / bamboo pillar. Pictures below of them on the pillar. I'd love some hints on where to look for them.

( IMAGE LINK )
I believe this to be related to the boat shack like another one on the same side of the pillar I already got, but I just don't see it.

( IMAGE LINK )
No idea where to find this one.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
Current status: Created a bootleg screensaver by setting the
boat to the slowest speed going around the entire island.
(early-ish spoilers)

Please post it when you're done! I'm also always looking for nice phone wallpapers, was thinking about the super cool
harpy? woman
in the stone, but I'm not sure yet.
 
Went to bed the other night thinking about
the cloud puzzle with the grey cloud in the middle
. Not a clue how to solve it.

Then I had the craziest dream:

I was messing around in town and moved the mirror such that it reflected the desert ruin laser at the cloud and caused it to rain
. I promptly woke up and thought that was the most ridiculous idea for solving something ever.

But I told myself I'd try it out anyway.

Lo and behold....


This game has infected my mind.

Had one of these moments today - went to bed puzzled over one of the Tetris puzzles in the quarry. Woke up this morning with the exact solution just stuck in my head. Gasped at how I'd been looking at things the wrong way round!
 
Please post it when you're done! I'm also always looking for nice phone wallpapers, was thinking about the super cool
harpy? woman
in the stone, but I'm not sure yet.

oh, I was just letting it run on my other monitor. Nothing fancy. I suppose I could stream it. Would take a little hit to quality but I don't really have the means to do anything more elaborate.

heh, kind of weird, but if anyone finds useful enjoy! (I am way late in the game so probably potential spoilers... maybe...?)

http://www.twitch.tv/smiteofhand
 

lt519

Member
It depends on how much you appreciate design. This is probably the only game out there right now that doesn't have text on the screen telling you what to do or where to go. No objective markers to explain everything. No audio or text to tell you how puzzles work. It's a great testament of what ... 7 years designing something can do, heh. Everything can be solved with patience and examining clues which most games can't do because their clues suck.

However I agree it's not really built for entertainment for the masses or anything. And if you aren't a puzzle person, this isn't going to wow you. I also hated the overly long quotes and videos that gave everything this pretentious feel. No effort at all to draw you in through narrative of any kind

Appreciating design doesn't always make it fun though. I appreciated how the game didn't hand hold and I was expected to figure out all the concepts on my own. I appreciated the use of environments as clues. I have all but one laser at this point and have figured out every concept, but once you figure out the concept the puzzles stop being fun. I'm a huge puzzle game fan; hell I used to play Sudoku, Picross 3D, and do crosswords before bed every night. I'm an engineer, puzzles flow through my veins, especially pattern recognition. But these puzzles quite frankly just aren't really fun after you figure out the concept.

It's a great game because it's beautiful, respects the player, and the sense of accomplishment of figuring out a concept is amazing, but the experience is dragged out. Instead of having to solve 20 panels in a row with the same fully evolved concept (beyond the intro panels) just let me do one or two and go onto the next mystery. I guess I'd rather have a shorter game with more concepts to discover than a longer game with fewer concepts but more puzzles.

Maybe I'll enjoy the "post-game" exploration more of things that aren't tied to a laser, but 20 hours in I'm already tired of it and not sure I'll even bother. As of right now it falls into a solid B category for me and I'm not sure my time wouldn't be better spent playing some of the other options I was mulling like Crypt of the Necrodancer, the upcoming Firewatch, or TIS 100.
 
Appreciating design doesn't always make it fun though. I appreciated how the game didn't hand hold and I was expected to figure out all the concepts on my own. I appreciated the use of environments as clues. I have all but one laser at this point and have figured out every concept, but once you figure out the concept the puzzles stop being fun. I'm a huge puzzle game fan; hell I used to play Sudoku, Picross 3D, and do crosswords before bed every night. I'm an engineer, puzzles flow through my veins, especially pattern recognition. But these puzzles quite frankly just aren't really fun after you figure out the concept.

I would disagree with this. Certain puzzle types certainly aren't fun after you figure out the concept (hello, the jungle) and some outstay their welcome (the environmental ones) but I could solve the tetromino ones all day, basically all the line puzzles where the clues are all self-contained in the panel are excellent and as a fan of logic-puzzles, I really like them.

I don't think it's a game where you can say "all of it's fun" or "all of it stops being fun" because there's a lot of degrees of quality there as puzzles go.
 

Kinsei

Banned
So I take it I have to
get to the swamp on foot instead of by boat? I solved one puzzle but it seems like I can't make any progress as every path is blocked off.
 
So I take it I have to
get to the swamp on foot instead of by boat? I solved one puzzle but it seems like I can't make any progress as every path is blocked off.

I think if you fully understand
the tetromino puzzles you can move around, but you need to get there on foot to do the tutorials if you don't understand them yet.
 

rafaelr

Member
So I take it I have to
get to the swamp on foot instead of by boat? I solved one puzzle but it seems like I can't make any progress as every path is blocked off.

Swamp spoiler: yes,
that´s where the tutorials for the tetrominos start
 

lt519

Member
I would disagree with this. Certain puzzle types certainly aren't fun after you figure out the concept (hello, the jungle) and some outstay their welcome (the environmental ones) but I could solve the tetromino ones all day, basically all the line puzzles where the clues are all self-contained in the panel are excellent and as a fan of logic-puzzles, I really like them.

I don't think it's a game where you can say "all of it's fun" or "all of it stops being fun" because there's a lot of degrees of quality there as puzzles go.

I guess I'm more saying that I think the game shines best in the sense of discovery of finding out the concepts, not repeating the application of the concept. Unfortunately figuring out the concepts doesn't take any longer than a half hour for any set of rules (at least for me). I can do Picross all day because I think it is fun in execution, but mazes don't really strike a chord with me. I don't think I'd enjoy any game based on any one of the concepts in The Witness as opposed to me being able to do Sudoku's all day long. Opinions and all, just the underlying mechanic once you strip the a-ha moments away is, IMO, pretty weak as far as puzzles go.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
oh, I was just letting it run on my other monitor. Nothing fancy. I suppose I could stream it. Would take a little hit to quality but I don't really have the means to do anything more elaborate.

heh, kind of weird, but if anyone finds useful enjoy! (I am way late in the game so probably potential spoilers... maybe...?)

http://www.twitch.tv/smiteofhand

Oooh, ha :) I was actually thinking you'd create an actual screensaver file heh.

edit your stream might just helped me finding a puzzle solution
 
I guess I'm more saying that I think the game shines best in the sense of discovery of finding out the concepts, not repeating the application of the concept. Unfortunately figuring out the concepts doesn't take any longer than a half hour for any set of rules (at least for me). I can do Picross all day because I think it is fun in execution, but mazes don't really strike a chord with me. I don't think I'd enjoy any game based on any one of the concepts in The Witness as opposed to me being able to do Sudoku's all day long. Opinions and all, just the underlying mechanic once you strip the a-ha moments away is, IMO, pretty weak as far as puzzles go.

How do you feel about Slitherlinks? They're not dissimilar to the puzzles in The Witness, really, and a Picross/Sudoku fan should love them.

But yeah, I guess if you don't like the puzzles you don't like the puzzles, not much to say about that!
 

Rodelero

Member
The actual proper way to solve it
is to learn how coloured light affects coloured objects. You can see the "original" version of the board earlier in the bunker in white light, and the puzzle changes on each floor based on what coloured light is shining on the duplicate version of the puzzle in the elevator. So when the red light shines on a white square, it appears red, etc.

When you get to the floor with the broken cable, you can look up and see what colour light is shining in the room above through the cracks in the floor, and from this you can work out what colours the board would display on that floor.

When you know the original colours and the colour of light, there must be some tool on the internet that will combine them if you can't work it out manually.

Your way might have been easier tbh, but I'm pretty sure my way is "correct," for whatever that's worth in the end.

So this is correct, but to be a little more specific in terms of how you can figure things out:

The three primary colours are red, green, and blue. All other colours are made up by combining these. Obviously there are infinitely many shades that can be made through different combinations, but in my experience, you can focus just on the following:

Black (No Red, Green, or Blue)
Red
Green
Blue
Yellow (Red and Green)
Turquoise (Green and Blue)
Purple (Blue and Red)
White (Red, Green and Blue)

Here's the interesting thing. If you have a red object, it means it reflects red light. So if you shine red light at it, that light will reflect and you will see the object as red. If you shine yellow light at it, it will reflect just the red light that makes up the yellow, and it will still look red. If you shine blue light at it, you will see black, because a red object cannot reflect the blue light.

Hence, on each floor, you can start to figure out what colours you actually have. On the first floor, which is red, you can determine which squares contain red. If they shine red, they might be red, purple, yellow or white. If they shine black, they might be black, green, blue, or turquoise. On the second floor, which is filled with purple light, you can pick out a lot more. Some squares will remain red, indicating they have no blue (they are red or yellow), some squares will remain black, indicating they have no red nor blue (they are green or black), and some red squares will turn purple, indicating they have both red and blue (they are purple or white).

So basically, as you go up each floor, take note of the colour of each square, and the colour of the light. Figure out what colours are part of each square. On the first floor you can figure out which have red and which don't. On the second floor you can figure out which have blue and which don't. On the fourth floor you can find out which have green and which don't. You should then be able to figure out precisely what every colour is.

Though you don't reach the fifth floor, you do know that it will be bathed in green light. You can now use what you've learned to figure out what each square will shine.

A square that is white, green, yellow or turquoise will shine green (because all four colours contain green), conversely, a square that is black, red, blue, or purple will shine black (because none of the four colours contain green)

Split them on this basis, and, voila.
 
I guess I'm more saying that I think the game shines best in the sense of discovery of finding out the concepts, not repeating the application of the concept. Unfortunately figuring out the concepts doesn't take any longer than a half hour for any set of rules (at least for me). I can do Picross all day because I think it is fun in execution, but mazes don't really strike a chord with me. I don't think I'd enjoy any game based on any one of the concepts in The Witness as opposed to me being able to do Sudoku's all day long. Opinions and all, just the underlying mechanic once you strip the a-ha moments away is, IMO, pretty weak as far as puzzles go.

I realize this is a shitty question, and have no obligation to some asshole on the internet to introspect, but since I found the puzzles engaging all the way through and also enjoy picross (though I hate sudoku, brains are weird!) I am curious if you are able to unpack what specifically dropped off for you about them after the discovery phase? You say execution, but any more detail than that?

Looking at it from the perspective of execution, to me, seems like the lowest effort thing the game asks you to do. The act of drawing lines is smooth and felt incredibly satisfying and the moment from having an idea to entering it and seeing if it is correct always felt good to me. Especially after I realized there was a fast line. (I am not bitter. Ok, maybe a little. A lot. A lottle.)
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
I guess I'm more saying that I think the game shines best in the sense of discovery of finding out the concepts, not repeating the application of the concept. Unfortunately figuring out the concepts doesn't take any longer than a half hour for any set of rules (at least for me). I can do Picross all day because I think it is fun in execution, but mazes don't really strike a chord with me. I don't think I'd enjoy any game based on any one of the concepts in The Witness as opposed to me being able to do Sudoku's all day long. Opinions and all, just the underlying mechanic once you strip the a-ha moments away is, IMO, pretty weak as far as puzzles go.

I highly disagree. Usually I dislike Sudokus, labyrinths and the like, but these puzzles kept (and still keep) me entertained as few games can. Maybe it's because they're actually pure logic and thought, instead of luck and chance, as most "puzzle" games are these days - and have been, since the tetris days. I can't express why, but the puzzles in this resonated with me like few puzzles did before, especially in videogames. On the other hand, if this would have been a puzzle collection without the stuff around it, I would probably not have given it a chance in the first place. The mixture of highly logical and thoughtful puzzles and the crazy stuff you'll find while solving them and looking everywhere is simply fantastic. I think it's telling that
the challenge
was (imo) by far the weakest part of the game.
 
People referring to Tetris as a puzzle game always annoys me, haha.

So this is correct, but to be a little more specific in terms of how you can figure things out:

You're making life hard for yourself!
The game already shows you the original colours in a panel shortly before you reach the elevator, so there's no need to work out manually what they are, just what they'll be in the cyan light.

I guess it's quite easy to miss that the panels are the same, but you have to pass it to open a door earlier so everyone who reaches the elevator has seen the panel.
 

Goldrusher

Member
Aw yiss...

http://i.imgur.com/8Rek0iQ.jpg

(challenge-spoiler)

edvard-grieg_jpg_240x240_crop_upscale_q95.jpg
 

GhaleonEB

Member
So. The last puzzle to light the beacon in the shadow forest.

I have both sides of the door open, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I'm supposed to do to solve he maze. Part of the path is clear, but the exit is blocked by shadow of a twisting branch. I've tried doing things like have my own shadow bridge the gap, and done various mixes of when to transition from dodging shadows to following them, to no avail. I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Been stuck here since last Wednesday, and circle back once or twice a day to try it from a different approach. Nada.

Any hints?
 
So. The last puzzle to light the beacon in the shadow forest.

I have both sides of the door open, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I'm supposed to do to solve he maze. Part of the path is clear, but the exit is blocked by shadow of a twisting branch. I've tried doing things like have my own shadow bridge the gap, and done various mixes of when to transition from dodging shadows to following them, to no avail. I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Been stuck here since last Wednesday, and circle back once or twice a day to try it from a different approach. Nada.

Any hints?

Unless I'm thinking of a different puzzle, you've mentioned the solution above - I guess you haven't quite got the details right yet but you're almost there.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
Still so many questions to super early, i hope non-spoilery areas.

what was the
"tooting"
tree for, in the
bamboo
area? Just giving a hint for the
jungle
puzzles?

did i get anything out of solving the
apple tree
puzzle chain?

what does the other setting of the
windmill do, the one that doesn't turn the blades
?

Where's that
omg moment
audiolog everyone's talking about lol

How on earth am I supposed to
find crazy
environmental
puzzles without a walkthrough :D

WHAT DOES THE
DOG
MEAN

and, of course, so many (very spoilery!!) post credit questions.
Why? What's the island for? Does it even exist? What does the whole credits area mean, in the end? Is the elevator ending the "wrong" ending, or what? What happens if all pillars are completed? Who are the "people" on the island and what's their story? What's "the one puzzle only very few will solve"? Is there one giant thing people didn't find yet? Is there indeed a giant cloud puzzle, because fuck if it doesn't look like it? What does the game title mean? What does the credits ending mean? Why can I not stop playing this game after getting the Platinum?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
If somebody could simply spoiler tag the
tetromino puzzle
rules, I would appreciate it. I don't get why some can be rotated and some can't.
 

webrunner

Member
If somebody could simply spoiler tag the
tetromino puzzle
rules, I would appreciate it. I don't get why some can be rotated and some can't.

1. All enclosed tetrominos must combine to make the entirety of the shape
2. spaces in tetrominos must be adhered to, but the space must be filled
3. a tilted tetronomino (me and my wife call them "drunken") can be rotated but not flipped
4. a outlined tetromino is a subtraction.
5. if an area ends up fully subtracted the shape no longer matters.
6. no overlapping (unless you subtract)
7. every subtraction must be used. if you just stick one alone with no squares it'll be wrong.
 

Kalor

Member
So. The last puzzle to light the beacon in the shadow forest.

I have both sides of the door open, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I'm supposed to do to solve he maze. Part of the path is clear, but the exit is blocked by shadow of a twisting branch. I've tried doing things like have my own shadow bridge the gap, and done various mixes of when to transition from dodging shadows to following them, to no avail. I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Been stuck here since last Wednesday, and circle back once or twice a day to try it from a different approach. Nada.

Any hints?

You're thinking about the right lines. I remember there looking like there were a few ways of doing it but only one of them was right.
 

Grinchy

Banned
So. The last puzzle to light the beacon in the shadow forest.

I have both sides of the door open, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I'm supposed to do to solve he maze. Part of the path is clear, but the exit is blocked by shadow of a twisting branch. I've tried doing things like have my own shadow bridge the gap, and done various mixes of when to transition from dodging shadows to following them, to no avail. I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Been stuck here since last Wednesday, and circle back once or twice a day to try it from a different approach. Nada.

Any hints?
Kind of a big hint:

Did you ever notice how sometimes you were following shadows and sometimes you were avoiding them?
 

Doopliss

Member
So. The last puzzle to light the beacon in the shadow forest.

I have both sides of the door open, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I'm supposed to do to solve he maze. Part of the path is clear, but the exit is blocked by shadow of a twisting branch. I've tried doing things like have my own shadow bridge the gap, and done various mixes of when to transition from dodging shadows to following them, to no avail. I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Been stuck here since last Wednesday, and circle back once or twice a day to try it from a different approach. Nada.

Any hints?
The transition line is down the centre of the puzzle.
 
Is there a short guide/list of all the # thresholds for different endings or whatever there is?

Not sure if this is what you are asking for or how spoilery I should be but tried my best to summarize...

"Credits" ending = Can be done at anytime.
End Game = 7 lasers. (can't recall how many panels this adds up to be)
The Challenge = 11 lasers. (also can't recall)
Just putting this line in here so people won't see 3 spoiler lines and go "oh, obviously there are 3 endings!" Suckers!
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
The ones you can
rotate are shown at a jaunty angle.

1. All enclosed tetrominos must combine to make the entirety of the shape
2. spaces in tetrominos must be adhered to, but the space must be filled
3. a tilted tetronomino (me and my wife call them "drunken") can be rotated but not flipped
4. a outlined tetromino is a subtraction.
5. if an area ends up fully subtracted the shape no longer matters.
6. no overlapping (unless you subtract)
7. every subtraction must be used. if you just stick one alone with no squares it'll be wrong.

Awesome. Thanks to both of you.

One last question: Does the square with the
tetromino
in it have to be included in each shape?
 
The transition line is down the centre of the puzzle.

IIRC, I think
the same division exists between either side of the gate when it comes to the other puzzles in the series, right?

One last question: Does the square with the
tetromino
in it have to be included in each shape?

Yes and no.

Yes, the enclosed area must include all of the shapes that are being used.

But the individual shapes themselves don't have to include the square with the tetromino corresponding to that particular shape. e.g. If you pair a 2x2 square-shape and an L-shape within the same enclosure, the L-shape tetromino symbol could be inside of the square-shape and vice versa.
 
So. The last puzzle to light the beacon in the shadow forest.

I have both sides of the door open, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I'm supposed to do to solve he maze. Part of the path is clear, but the exit is blocked by shadow of a twisting branch. I've tried doing things like have my own shadow bridge the gap, and done various mixes of when to transition from dodging shadows to following them, to no avail. I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Been stuck here since last Wednesday, and circle back once or twice a day to try it from a different approach. Nada.

Any hints?

The left gate opened when you completed the puzzles that had you tracing branch shadows, and the right gate opened after you finished the puzzles where you go in between the shadows
 
Regarding bunker
elevator puzzle
:

So this is correct, but to be a little more specific in terms of how you can figure things out:

The three primary colours are red, green, and blue. All other colours are made up by combining these. Obviously there are infinitely many shades that can be made through different combinations, but in my experience, you can focus just on the following:

Black (No Red, Green, or Blue)
Red
Green
Blue
Yellow (Red and Green)
Turquoise (Green and Blue)
Purple (Blue and Red)
White (Red, Green and Blue)

Here's the interesting thing. If you have a red object, it means it reflects red light. So if you shine red light at it, that light will reflect and you will see the object as red. If you shine yellow light at it, it will reflect just the red light that makes up the yellow, and it will still look red. If you shine blue light at it, you will see black, because a red object cannot reflect the blue light.

Hence, on each floor, you can start to figure out what colours you actually have. On the first floor, which is red, you can determine which squares contain red. If they shine red, they might be red, purple, yellow or white. If they shine black, they might be black, green, blue, or turquoise. On the second floor, which is filled with purple light, you can pick out a lot more. Some squares will remain red, indicating they have no blue (they are red or yellow), some squares will remain black, indicating they have no red nor blue (they are green or black), and some red squares will turn purple, indicating they have both red and blue (they are purple or white).

So basically, as you go up each floor, take note of the colour of each square, and the colour of the light. Figure out what colours are part of each square. On the first floor you can figure out which have red and which don't. On the second floor you can figure out which have blue and which don't. On the fourth floor you can find out which have green and which don't. You should then be able to figure out precisely what every colour is.

Though you don't reach the fifth floor, you do know that it will be bathed in green light. You can now use what you've learned to figure out what each square will shine.

A square that is white, green, yellow or turquoise will shine green (because all four colours contain green), conversely, a square that is black, red, blue, or purple will shine black (because none of the four colours contain green)

Split them on this basis, and, voila.

This is correct. But you don't actually need to know
how this stuff works to figure out the solution. I could never get my head around that, so luckily the area contains a way to translate panels between different lighting conditions. A rosetta panel, if you will.

Look at the elevetor panel on the floor with blue light and write down the colours. Then go back to the start of the bunker. Look at the third panel in the second room through the blue glass. Write down the colours you see. Then look at it through both the yellow and blue panes of glass, as you did to solve the panel when you first encountered it. Write down what you see. Now you have a translation between what colours look like in blue light and what they look like in green light. Apply it to your notes for the elevator on the blue light floor, to solve the puzzle.

I'm not sure if this is how it works in real life, but it worked in the game. I really liked this puzzle, probably my favourite single puzzle in the game so far, and the entire area is in the running for favourite area of the game (competing against marsh and quarry) because of how it all so very elegantly led up to it
 

GhaleonEB

Member
The left gate opened when you completed the puzzles that had you tracing branch shadows, and the right gate opened after you finished the puzzles where you go in between the shadows

Yeah, I'd noticed this and though it was the solution; it's what I've been trying. I'll keep at it. Thanks.
 

lt519

Member
I realize this is a shitty question, and have no obligation to some asshole on the internet to introspect, but since I found the puzzles engaging all the way through and also enjoy picross (though I hate sudoku, brains are weird!) I am curious if you are able to unpack what specifically dropped off for you about them after the discovery phase? You say execution, but any more detail than that?

Incoming wall of text, underlined what I feel is the main problem:

Fair question, execution may have been the wrong word, so we'll see if my definition of how I feel changes after typing this. It is a weird feeling because after all things like Picross and Sudokus are very similar, they follow a set of rules and force you to make logic based decisions on the instructions (numbers) given to you. I think honestly the subsequent puzzles after the discovery in The Witness have been too simple and easy, as are Picross and Sudokus. But when I go play Picross or Sudoku I know what I am getting into. A simple brain teaser. In The Witness you often have a complex brain teaser to figure out the concept and your reward is now to repeat that complex brain teaser which is now simple because you've figured it out once before. It's a bit of a let down, you go from genius to doing paperwork. I just proved I learned it, why do I have to apply it to simple 4x4 grids over and over? Give me one final massive 20x20 grid instead or instead give me a new concept to learn. They had such a great system of exploring and learning concepts and over half the game is bogged down in "paperwork." Give me less "paperwork" and more discovery.

In the Desert
I figured out that I have to raise and lower the water and get the glare onto the reflection to see the solution. Why do I now need to do this 5 more times and figure out exactly where to stand 5 times? I'd appreciate one larger complex puzzle getting reflections scattered around the room, causing me to use a pen and paper, and then combining them into one instead of doing 5 smaller ones that just repeat themselves.
The best puzzle in the game was combining the
4 puzzles from The Keep into one.

I highly disagree. Usually I dislike Sudokus, labyrinths and the like, but these puzzles kept (and still keep) me entertained as few games can. Maybe it's because they're actually pure logic and thought, instead of luck and chance, as most "puzzle" games are these days - and have been, since the tetris days.

Go play The Talos Principle! No hand holding and the puzzles are much better than in The Witness, IMO. No luck, no chance, full on problem solving. With a story (although preachy) to boot!

Edit: And again, repeating I haven't finished the game, 10 lasers in, and I do like it. The positives far outweigh the negatives, but not enough for me to hunt down every puzzle like I did in Talos Principle.
 
Incoming wall of text, underlined what I feel is the main problem:

Fair question, execution may have been the wrong word, so we'll see if my definition of how I feel changes after typing this. It is a weird feeling because after all things like Picross and Sudokus are very similar, they follow a set of rules and force you to make logic based decisions on the instructions (numbers) given to you. I think honestly the subsequent puzzles after the discovery in The Witness have been too simple and easy, as are Picross and Sudokus. But when I go play Picross or Sudoku I know what I am getting into. A simple brain teaser. In The Witness you often have a complex brain teaser to figure out the concept and your reward is now to repeat that complex brain teaser which is now simple because you've figured it out once before. It's a bit of a let down, you go from genius to doing paperwork. I just proved I learned it, why do I have to apply it to simple 4x4 grids over and over? Give me one final massive 20x20 grid instead or instead give me a new concept to learn. They had such a great system of exploring and learning concepts and over half the game is bogged down in "paperwork." Give me less "paperwork" and more discovery.

In the Desert
I figured out that I have to raise and lower the water and get the glare onto the reflection to see the solution. Why do I now need to do this 5 more times and figure out exactly where to stand 5 times? I'd appreciate one larger complex puzzle getting reflections scattered around the room, causing me to use a pen and paper, and then combining them into one instead of doing 5 smaller ones that just repeat themselves.
The best puzzle in the game was combining the
4 puzzles from The Keep into one.

I don't agree with this. I find that even after you have figured out how a mechanic works they challenge your understanding through extra complications. For example, in the marsh,
they keep introducing new mechanics to the shape puzzles. First you need to figure out that as long as you include each block in your area, it doesn't matter where the shapes are. So the one that was shown on top can be in the bottom and so on. Then they add in rotation, subtraction blocks, total cancellation of blocks and subtraction blocks.
And then in other areas they start
......combining......
shape puzzles
with other mechanics like symmetry and negator blocks. It's constantly switched up.
Or take how in the monastery and shady forest
you need to figure out how changes in the environment affect what was once the intended solutions.
Or take how in the bunker
they combine everything you've learned in the area into the final elevator puzzle, as I described in the post above.

Learning the mechanics is fun. Using the mechanics in increasingly complex puzzles is fun. Understanding how the mechanics would still apply after they add in additional wrinkles is fun.

On the other hand I don't really enjoy sudokus or line puzzles on papers. They don't switch it up nearly enough to me, and solving sudokus especially just feel like executing an algorithm (granted, I never really got into them though, so I may well be missing something there as they become more advanced.

I do agree with you about the desert though. It's the area where they switch it up the least, and it was a bit of a chore to me.
 
I can see the puzzle complexity ramp both ways, honestly. It is a very slow ramp up as a huge safety net to make sure the player gets what the rules are. And the desert is definitely the worst offender for sure. It didn't bother me personally, but I can see that if the rules were clear very early then it could feel pretty painful.

On the other hand, you can see examples of people who clearly didn't get the full rule set of a section even after doing many puzzles there. Hard design problem.
 
Played a lot of this game since it came out and I think I'm just about done with it. There's just no incentive left for me to finish it. It is an incredible example of streamlined design though and there is a lot that other games could learn from the way it teaches the player how to solve puzzles.
 

Rush_Khan

Member
I'm convinced there are
no solutions for some of these tetris puzzles. Am I missing something? You have to make a path that creates that shape, right? What if the shape is at an angle?
 

Crispy75

Member
I swear John Blow took some inspiration from Alcazar. I solved the puzzle on
the beach behind the sun temple
using very similar methods to those I use for solving an Alcazar puzzle.


Which then leads to: There really really should be a mobile app for The Witness puzzles. No environmental clues, just the pure puzzles. There's such a rich toolset; it'd be great to see what could be done with it.
 
I'm convinced there are
no solutions for some of these tetris puzzles. Am I missing something? You have to make a path that creates that shape, right? What if the shape is at an angle?

Here's the basic idea: to solve a single piece, draw a path that matches that piece with the icon inside the drawn shape. You must adhere to the icon shape exactly unless it's at an angle in which case you can rotate it. Often times you will have to combine two or more shapes to find the solution, for example two 4x4 squares can be completed by creating a path that is 8x4 with both icons inside it. They can all fit together (like Tetris) into one solution path, or you can draw separate shapes for each icon, but pieces cannot overlap. You can move pieces all over the board, they don't have to be touching their icon the icon just has to be within the boarder of the solution path, so for example if there is an L in the bottom right and a 3x1 horizontal in the bottom left, you could draw a path that switched them and has the L shape in the bottom right and the horizontal in the bottom left and it would still work as long as both icons are within the drawn shape. I'm probably not wording this simply, but I hope it helps.
 

webrunner

Member
Awesome. Thanks to both of you.

One last question: Does the square with the
tetromino
in it have to be included in each shape?

Yes and no

the tetromino part of the shape itself doesn't have to be on the square but the square needs to be part of the combined shape.
 

Bowlie

Banned
I swear John Blow took some inspiration from Alcazar. I solved the puzzle on
the beach behind the sun temple
using very similar methods to those I use for solving an Alcazar puzzle.

Haha, I thought I was the only one! I solved all puzzles with colored dots in the same way.
 

mclem

Member
I swear John Blow took some inspiration from Alcazar. I solved the puzzle on
the beach behind the sun temple
using very similar methods to those I use for solving an Alcazar puzzle.



Which then leads to: There really really should be a mobile app for The Witness puzzles. No environmental clues, just the pure puzzles. There's such a rich toolset; it'd be great to see what could be done with it.

There's a great little puzzle collection that specialises in being portable to different platforms, it's a toolset that's designed to make it easy to implement new puzzles. It should - in principle - be very possible to add Witness puzzles to it.

The downside, though, is that implementing that would rather miss the point with the whole 'learning through experimentation and observation' theme the core game has going for it; by its very nature, it'd have to explain all the mechanics for the benefit of non-Witness players.
 
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