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There is going to be a draft soon

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A

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041107/ap_on_re_us/reservist_lawsuit_2

HONOLULU - A veteran of the first Persian Gulf War (news - web sites) is suing the Army after it ordered him to report for duty 13 years after he was honorably discharged from active duty and eight years after he left the reserves.



Kauai resident David Miyasato received word of his reactivation in September, but says he believes he completed his eight-year obligation to the Army long ago.

"I was shocked," Miyasato said Friday. "I never expected to see something like that after being out of the service for 13 years."

His federal lawsuit, filed Friday in Honolulu, seeks a judgment declaring that he has fulfilled his military obligations.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Harry Yee said his office would defend the Army. He declined to comment further. An Army spokewoman at the Pentagon (news - web sites) declined to comment to the Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

Miyasato, 34, was scheduled to report to a military facility in South Carolina on Tuesday.

Within hours of filing the lawsuit, however, Miyasato received a faxed letter from the Army's Human Resources Command saying his "exemption from active duty had not been finalized at this time" and that he has been given an administrative delay for up to 30 days, said his attorney, Eric Seitz.

Miyasato, his wife, Estelle, and their 7-month-old daughter, Abigail, live in Lihue, where he opened an auto-tinting shop two years ago.

His lawsuit states that Miyasato is suing not because he opposes the war in Iraq (news - web sites), but because his business and family would suffer "serious and irreparable harm" if he is required to serve.

Miyasato enlisted in the Army in 1987 and served in Iraq and Kuwait during the first Persian Gulf War as a petroleum supply specialist and truck driver.

Miyasato said he received an honorable discharge from active duty in 1991, then served in the reserves until 1996 to fulfill his eight-year enlistment commitment.

The Army announced last year that it would involuntarily activate an estimated 5,600 soldiers to serve in Iraq, Afghanistan (news - web sites) and elsewhere. Army officials would be tapping members of the Individual Ready Reserve — military members who have been discharged from the Army, Army Reserve or the Army National Guard, but still have contractual obligations to the military.

Miyasato said he never re-enlisted, signed up for any bonuses or was told that he had been transferred to the Individual Ready Reserve or any other Army Reserve unit.

"I fulfilled my contract," Miyasato said. "I just want to move on from this, and I'm optimistic that I'll be successful."

Miyasato speculated that he may have been picked because his skills as a truck driver and refueler are in demand in Iraq. He told reporters he did the same work as that done by a group of Army reservists who refused to deliver fuel along a dangerous route in Iraq last month.
 
D

duderon

rollin' in the gutter
rk.gif


:lol
 
Z

ZombieSupaStar

Member
never been so happy to been born club foot




*taps each surgically repaired 14 times ankles and twice cut achilles tendons*




HAVE FUN GUYS :D
 
F

fennec fox

ferrets ferrets ferrets ferrets FERRETS!!!
I rarely bring up the Junior Member status of a poster, as everyone was a Junior Member at some point, but when someone makes a topic title that has jack shit to do with the post, then I cannot be silent.

You are a stupid, moronic, idiotic Junior Member, and I hope your fingers fall off.

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v
No, it sounds like a lawsuit.
 
C

Christoff Yurievich

Member
^^ this doesn't sound like a "back-door" draft to you? he was discharged, 13 years have passed, and they are telling him he has to come back? yeah, back-door draft.

ManaByte said:
He didn't read the fine print when he signed up.
Click to expand...

I am going to calmly assume you are being facetious.
 
O

Odoul

Member
Gay marriage? Eh
Abortion? Whatever
Shaky reasons for war? So what
Military draft? Now THAT will get some motherfuckers rioting.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Gold Member
bune duggy said:
^^ this doesn't sound like a "back-door" draft to you? he was discharged, 13 years have passed, and they are telling him he has to come back? yeah, back-door draft..
Click to expand...

Again, he didn't read the fine print when he signed up. He can be called back to active duty within a certain period of time after being discharged. He didn't read what he signed carefully enough, and he'll lose the lawsuit because of that. Other people have sued and the judge said "Hey, it's not the Army's fault you didn't read the contract completely".
 
M

MVS

Member
ManaByte said:
Again, he didn't read the fine print when he signed up. He can be called back to active duty within a certain period of time after being discharged. He didn't read what he signed carefully enough, and he'll lose the lawsuit because of that. Other people have sued and the judge said "Hey, it's not the Army's fault you didn't read the contract completely".
Click to expand...

Unless he re-upped in 1996, then did less than one year, his 8 years would have been up long before.

Article seems to say he signed up once, finished his 8 with Reserve Duty then got a call out of the blue 8 years post that.
 
Z

ZombieSupaStar

Member
DarthWoo said:
But that's just for enlistment, not for if they did institute a draft. I'm pretty sure that if it starts, Bush isn't going to car who he throws into his little wars.
Click to expand...


well then Ill try and rape my enlistment officer thatll get me out fast :)
 
C

Christoff Yurievich

Member
ManaByte said:
Again, he didn't read the fine print when he signed up. He can be called back to active duty within a certain period of time after being discharged. He didn't read what he signed carefully enough, and he'll lose the lawsuit because of that. Other people have sued and the judge said "Hey, it's not the Army's fault you didn't read the contract completely".
Click to expand...

From my contract:

MILITARY SERVICE OBLIGATION UNDERSTANDING: I understand that an original enlistment in the US Armed Forces obligates me to an eight (8) year Military Service Obligation. My term of enlistment in the Regular Army is creditable towards that obligation as was any enlistment in the Delayed Entry Program. In the event that the Secretary of the Army determines that millitary necessity of a national scope requires that soldiers be available for assignment/reassignment or training, any or all guarantees contained in this agreement may be terminated. Under these conditions I may be trained, assigned, or reassigned according to the needs of the Army.
Click to expand...

See that fine print? 8 years. After that, *poof* you are no longer part of the Army. Oddly enough, the paper this was printed on is dated NOV 89, which means that the form hadn't been changed in about 8 years (I enlisted in 1997). The form I am looking at is a standardized form which means the print doesn't change for each person - it stays the same.

Miyasato said he received an honorable discharge from active duty in 1991, then served in the reserves until 1996 to fulfill his eight-year enlistment commitment.
Click to expand...

He would have signed a similar form when he enlisted (it says he enlisted in 1987) and therefore he served his time, he should not be getting called back up.

Right now I am in the IRR, and they have called three times trying to get me to go back. I calmly tell them they can't have me as I am now (thanks to the Army) 60% disabled.
 
F

fart

Savant
thread over

and the title is a little off camber, but not totally unrelated. military needs bodies badly.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
I wish I was dune buggy, so I could rub it in a little more. Hell, I'm bored...

ManaByte said:
Again, he didn't read the fine print when he signed up.
Click to expand...
HE didn't read the fine print? HE didn't read the fine print?
He can be called back to active duty within a certain period of time after being discharged.
Click to expand...
CORRECT. 8 years. 8 years, mathematically speaking, is less than 13 years.
He didn't read what he signed carefully enough
Click to expand...
What about you? How carefully did you read it?
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
You know, just because a contract might say something does not mean it's reasonable and will hold up if challenged in court.

That aside, this does really say something about the state of the US military. After all, we keep hearing about how a draft will not happen because it's an All Volunteer Army, and they would be totally insane to make that not the case.

Here we have them clearly fighting hard, however, to get someone in who is clearly not a volunteer. I don't think there will be a 'real' draft, since the US military apparently feels this back door draft is good enough, but it certainly says something, whether you like it or not.
 
K

KilledByBill

Member
Again, he didn't read the fine print when he signed up. He can be called back to active duty within a certain period of time after being discharged. He didn't read what he signed carefully enough, and he'll lose the lawsuit because of that. Other people have sued and the judge said "Hey, it's not the Army's fault you didn't read the contract completely".
Click to expand...

I don't know too much about federal courts yet but I'm currently studying to become a certified Paralegal. From what we've learned it's very rare that you're going to get a judge to dismiss a case because "someone didn't read the contract good enough." When you have large institutions/companys drafting contracts they have a legal obligation to make sure that the other party clearly understands what they are signing. Just because a person signs a contract with clauses hidden or buried somewhere in the fine print doesn't quarantee that the courts will enforce it.
 
S

sonatinas

Member
uh, if you guys would look up the draft in the senate.gov archives u will see that it states that the military is against the draft

it is all there in public domain
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
But how long will it stay that way?

Well, as long as Bush doesn't piss of more muslims/israelis or decide to go on more wars, they should be able to *just* manage.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
fennec fox said:
I rarely bring up the Junior Member status of a poster, as everyone was a Junior Member at some point, but when someone makes a topic title that has jack shit to do with the post, then I cannot be silent.

You are a stupid, moronic, idiotic Junior Member, and I hope your fingers fall off.

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|
v
No, it sounds like a lawsuit.
Click to expand...
I believe this "Fox" news. ;)
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
SKluck said:
You agree to a contract, you get paid for a job. You must do the job.
Click to expand...

And he did the job. Now they want him to do stuff that he never signed for in a contract.

To make it simple;

You get a contract to build a single building. You do it. Everyone is happy; you go on to do other stuff for 2 years.

Then you get a call from the person that contracted you 2 years ago and they're demanding that you build another building for them.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
If my number comes up Im showing up wearing co tour, ask if I will be given time for my facial masques, ask them how my ass looks in a uniform and make out with any guy in site.. I figure that should get my ass thrown out the door.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
StoOgE said:
If my number comes up Im showing up wearing co tour, ask if I will be given time for my facial masques, ask them how my ass looks in a uniform and make out with any guy in site.. I figure that should get my ass thrown out the door.
Click to expand...

Corporal StoOgE Klinger, reporting for duty!
 
Z

ZombieSupaStar

Member
maharg said:
You know, just because a contract might say something does not mean it's reasonable and will hold up if challenged in court.

That aside, this does really say something about the state of the US military. After all, we keep hearing about how a draft will not happen because it's an All Volunteer Army, and they would be totally insane to make that not the case.

Here we have them clearly fighting hard, however, to get someone in who is clearly not a volunteer. I don't think there will be a 'real' draft, since the US military apparently feels this back door draft is good enough, but it certainly says something, whether you like it or not.
Click to expand...


yeah I dont think there will be "ww2, vietnam draft, type draft"

but alot of incentives offered and....well....if you EVER were in the service you have a thumb in the war pie.....thats fucked up right there though
 
A

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
fennec fox said:
I rarely bring up the Junior Member status of a poster, as everyone was a Junior Member at some point, but when someone makes a topic title that has jack shit to do with the post, then I cannot be silent.

You are a stupid, moronic, idiotic Junior Member, and I hope your fingers fall off.
Click to expand...


It's called sex, enjoy it one day, your stress level will go down.

However, it does elude to the content of my post. If they are pulling this, with the agenda the Bush administration has with the world, you are out of your mind if you think otherwise.
 
A

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Shazapp said:
I've never been so glad to be so old. No draft for me! :D
Click to expand...


I'm 24, I still have a ways to go. I'm married with 2 kids, but in time of draft, I don't think that benefits me though. China backs Iran having nuclear capability and the prime minister of China hopes Bush doesn't go about thing unilaterially in his second term
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
From China's point of view, they and iran are hardly axis of evil. They need those nuclear weapons to stop the U.S. from stomping all over them (in case the U.S. ever becomes to right wing and incoherent... and it seems like it's well along the way); they know that if they attack with them, it holds no benefits whatsoever...
 
A

Alex Anderson

Member
Agent Icebeezy said:
However, it does elude to the content of my post. If they are pulling this, with the agenda the Bush administration has with the world, you are out of your mind if you think otherwise.
Click to expand...

How could you possibly make such a bold statement based solely on this article? This is an issue of one man's military status. The Army's not going to let someone walk who they feel is still under obligation to them without a court saying otherwise. It's that simple and really isn't a cause for alarm. For all we know, Mr. Miyasoto may not have fulfilled his full eight years of service. I'm not saying he's lying (how would I know), but it's completely possible that what he's saying isn't factual.
 
K

Kettch

Member
MILITARY SERVICE OBLIGATION UNDERSTANDING: I understand that an original enlistment in the US Armed Forces obligates me to an eight (8) year Military Service Obligation. My term of enlistment in the Regular Army is creditable towards that obligation as was any enlistment in the Delayed Entry Program. In the event that the Secretary of the Army determines that millitary necessity of a national scope requires that soldiers be available for assignment/reassignment or training, any or all guarantees contained in this agreement may be terminated. Under these conditions I may be trained, assigned, or reassigned according to the needs of the Army.
Click to expand...

So, does this part mean that the 8 year period is voided whenever the Secretary of the Army determines they need you? It sounds pretty straightforward with, "any or all guarantees contained in this agreement may be terminated".
 
N

norinrad21

Banned
Kettch said:
So, does this part mean that the 8 year period is voided whenever the Secretary of the Army determines they need you? It sounds pretty straightforward with, "any or all guarantees contained in this agreement may be terminated".
Click to expand...

That pretty much sums it up, uncle Sam owns you
 
C

Christoff Yurievich

Member
fennec fox said:
No, it sounds like a lawsuit.
Click to expand...

talk about not looking at the details. What the Army is doing is calling this guy up 13 years after he was discharged. What he is doing is filing a lawsuit to say they can't do this. The Army is putting forth something that really seems like a back-door draft. The guy is just trying to keep from going back because his time is over and done.

SKluck said:
You agree to a contract, you get paid for a job. You must do the job.
Click to expand...

true, and as has been stated when the contract is up so is your obligation.

Kettch said:
So, does this part mean that the 8 year period is voided whenever the Secretary of the Army determines they need you? It sounds pretty straightforward with, "any or all guarantees contained in this agreement may be terminated".
Click to expand...

Yeah, you got half of it right. The half you got wrong is that once those 8 years are up, they cannot bring you back for this or any reason. You are no longer under contract, the contract is null and void, they cannot touch you. They cannot just ignore the fact that you completed your contractual obligations, that's illegal. The house example stated before by Zaptruder is a great analogy.

If you need still more proof, go here: http://www.acap.army.mil/transitioner/presep/chapter8/8a.cfm

the military said:
A. Obligation to Serve Continues for Eight Years

When you entered the Service, you incurred a military service obligation of eight years. If you are separating prior to fulfilling eight years of active service, then some of that obligation probably remains even though you are returning to civilian life. You must satisfy that obligation by becoming a Ready Reserve member in one of the following categories:
Click to expand...

If any of you still think that when you sign up for the military they "own you" until you die, well, you have reading comprehension issues.
 
X

xexex

Banned
if there was even a hint that a real Draft was really about to happen, we would see an exodus the likes of which we have never seen before.

I have zero upper body strength so that probably keeps me out.
 
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