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[zero shift]

Some of the things -- such as the drug persecution -- he claimed were plainly untrue, but I did agree with him on one thing in particular; the large rate of black children with a single parent only exasperates the many issues.

Specifics aside, the theme of O'Reilly's comments were that the black community can find solutions internally. It's a question that I've contemplated over the last few weeks: how does the perpetuation of racial stereotypes/prejudice end? O'Reilly may find more universal agreement on that point than anywhere else. A report in the UK recently stated the university application rates for black 18-year-olds have risen from 20% in 2006 to 34% this year. Continued at this rate, we may have 1 in 2 black children applying for university within the next decade.

The problems facing educating young black men need to be overcome because social mobility is the only way to effectively reduce crime and thus the stereotypes. What that statistic shows is that the solution can come from within.

Aren't most of these black young males in England immigrants?
I was under the impression that he few black Englanders who were slaves in the old days suffer from high poverty rates.

Edit - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/23/black-asian-teenagers-university Seem like immigrants.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Eh,
A.)A lot of people think Cosby is an ass for saying that stuff anyway

B.)As someone who grew up in an urban African-American community Cosby at least has the first hand perspective to lend some credibility to his comments. O'Reilly does not.

So just so I get this straight; Cosby and O'Reilly share the same basic perspective on the topic, but only one is credible because of first hand perspective? Something stinks about that line of thinking. They're either both right or both wrong.

 

[JDSN]

Funny how everyone has completely ignored this point in reference to pregnancy rates.

Also the same people that ignore the amount of black people against the war against terror and pro gun control.

 

[empty vessel]

Some of the things -- such as the drug persecution -- he claimed were plainly untrue, but I did agree with him on one thing in particular; the large rate of black children with a single parent only exasperates the many issues.

Specifics aside, the theme of O'Reilly's comments were that the black community can find solutions internally. It's a question that I've contemplated over the last few weeks: how does the perpetuation of racial stereotypes/prejudice end? O'Reilly may find more universal agreement on that point than anywhere else. A report in the UK recently stated the university application rates for black 18-year-olds have risen from 20% in 2006 to 34% this year. Continued at this rate, we may have 1 in 2 black children applying for university within the next decade.

The problems facing educating young black men need to be overcome because social mobility is the only way to effectively reduce crime and thus the stereotypes. What that statistic shows is that the solution can come from within.

It can't come from within in the US. The US is not like the UK. The US, as a matter of policy, imposes instability and disruption on the US underclass. There is little to no social supports. There is little to no labor supports. And there is added to this harassment. Children raised in such instability will not learn. This is not to say that black people shouldn't organize politically. Ultimately they will be part of any solution. But they are a political minority and the biggest impediments are political in nature. And if this was something that could be solved internally then it stands to reason it's something that would have been prevented to begin with.

I think the more constructive discussion is not what can black people to do to help themselves, but rather what can white people do to help themselves stop ruthlessly imposing unstable social and economic conditions on their fellow countrymen. It's sociopathic and this is by far the biggest issue the country faces.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

It can't come from within in the US. The US is not like the UK. The US, as a matter of policy, imposes instability and disruption on the US underclass. There is little to no social supports. There is little to no labor supports. And there is added to this harassment. Children raised in such instability will not learn. This is not to say that black people shouldn't organize politically. Ultimately they will be part of any solution. But they are a political minority and the biggest impediments are political in nature. And if this was something that could be solved internally then it stands to reason it's something that would have been prevented to begin with.

I think the more constructive discussion is not what can black people to do to help themselves, but rather what can white people do to help themselves stop ruthlessly imposing unstable social and economic conditions on their fellow countrymen. It's sociopathic and this is by far the biggest issue the country faces.

Would you mind narrowing that down beyond the white people generalizations? If there's something me being white is doing to create an unstable economic condition for minorities I'd like to hear specifics.

 

[shuri]

Why do black people think that Cosby is an ass for saying those things?

 

[Eidan]

Wow. I'm kind of stunned so many people seem okay with O'Reilly's comments. His main argument is that black crime is caused by the disintegration of black families, and he blames that on drug addiction? He mentions that blacks are unfairly targeted in the drug war, says that this argument is bogus, and the reason is distributors are scum who deserve what they get. It's a very strange video, and the only way I can see someone endorsing it is if they decide to put their critical thinking skills on hold.

And my fucking god, an ad telling black women to stop having children?

 

[TacticalFox88]

I swear to god, ever since Trayvon's story came out, GAF is getting more and more bold with its blatant racism.

Jesus FUCK.

 

[Juice]

Would you mind narrowing that down beyond the white people generalizations? If there's something me being white is doing to create an unstable economic condition for minorities I'd like to hear specifics.

It's possible that they can both be wrong, but Cosby can have the mitigating factor of being well-intentioned. O'Reilly is probably just race-baiting and playing to the confirmation bias of his white, always-outraged audience.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I swear to god, ever since Trayvon's story came out, GAF is getting more and more bold with its blatant racism.

Jesus FUCK.

It's been... enlightening.

 

[Real Hero]

surprised he doesn't just come out say 'black people are STILL a problem!'

 

[breakfuss]

I swear to god, ever since Trayvon's story came out, GAF is getting more and more bold with its blatant racism.

Jesus FUCK.

Just wait until the guy with the barney avatar shows up.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

It's possible that they can both be wrong, but Cosby can have the mitigating factor of being well-intentioned. O'Reilly is probably just race-baiting and playing to the confirmation bias of his white, always-outraged audience.

What does that have to do with what you quoted me on? If you meant to quote my previous post then sure if they're both wrong that's a valid arguement, but if Cosby's right O'Reilly can't be wrong in his statement regardless of him obviously appealing to a specific demographic (white people) who watch his show.

I swear to god, ever since Trayvon's story came out, GAF is getting more and more bold with its blatant racism.

Jesus FUCK.

If someone's being blatantly racist shouldn't you pm a mod?

 

[Eidan]

Also, what music is O'Reilly even referring to? I don't keep up with what's really popular in rap, but does he really think guys like Jay-Z, Kanye, or Drake are "part of the problem"?

 

[Vice]

Why do black people think that Cosby is an ass for saying those things?

It ignores the realities of life for poor people and he mostly just argues that we should pull ourselves up by the bootstraps.

 

[mckmas8808]

can we agree though, that the gangsta rap culture is not really doing any positive for the community? with the whole street cred and all that crap

That was around BEFORE rap music glorified it. The music is just a symptom of what was already happening in those areas.

 

[Dyno]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...lack-men-in-prison-slaves-1850_n_1007368.html

More black men in prison today then were enslaved in 1850.

 

[Spehornoob]

Could there be shared responsibility here? Perhaps some middle ground between putting all the blame on "gangsta" culture and putting all the blame on white people?

 

[MisterNegative]

I swear to god, ever since Trayvon's story came out, GAF is getting more and more bold with its blatant racism.

Jesus FUCK.

Point it out. allow the blanket statements.

Also, what music is O'Reilly even referring to? I don't keep up with what's really popular in rap, but does he really think guys like Jay-Z, Kanye, or Drake are "part of the problem"?

Chief Keef lol

Could there be shared responsibility here? Perhaps some middle ground between putting all the blame on "gangsta" culture and putting all the blame on white people?

You don't get it. It's not white people or any specific race's fault and people that are blaming them are clueless. The problem is the fact that America is so ashamed of the part it played in slavery/segregation that constant negative sterotypes are forced onto black youths by media. This then allows people to justify th use of racial profiling which then leads to black people being targeted by authorities more, creating statistics which people use to furthur justify aggresive action against blacks. It's about the dangers of systematic covert racism, it works because people pretend it doesn't exist. What Bill said was wrong on many levels, but at least he acknowledged that a conversation needs to happen.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Could there be shared responsibility here? Perhaps some middle ground between putting all the blame on "gangsta" culture and putting all the blame on white people?

If you're putting "all" the blame on white people that's not exactly sharing responsibility is it?

I'm all for discussing the issues, but I'm not down for calling anyone here Racist.

You've come to the wrong thread.

 

[jmdajr]

I'm all for discussing the issues, but I'm not down for calling anyone here Racist.

 

[Real Hero]

I'm all for discussing the issues, but I'm not down for calling anyone here Racist.

but what if they hate people from another race

 

[Eidan]

Chief Keef lol

Why is Kid Cudi destroying black America?

 

[Spehornoob]

If you're putting "all" the blame on white people that's not exactly sharing responsibility is it?

That's what I mean. Maybe one group alone isn't wholly responsible. I mean, I can't really say for sure. I haven't studied up. But I'm always skeptical to think that all the blame for any particular issue lies with one party.

 

[Vice]

The idea that there is something wrong with the black family structure has been used to explain the issues of the black community for over a century. When women were forced to be breadwinner in a post-reconstruction world, due to it being harder for black males to get jobs, the weakness of the black family was blamed for why so many blacks got into legal trouble.

Then later on, the black family was attacked again because black women didn't fall into the typical 50s-era housewife role as often as they had to work, often taking care of white families, which made people believe the lack of a mother who was always in the home lead to the issues in the black community.

Blaming black family structure is an old tactic that ignore the institutionalized issues facing black Americans that are more of a deterrent than whether they're parents are together, whether their mom goes to work or whether their father makes less than their mother.

 

[speedline]

The Zimmerman case received national attention because the police did a half-assed investigation and the police and prosecutors tried to pretend it never happened instead of investigating Zimmerman for murder. It had nothing to do with the substantive crime that was committed, that shit happens every day.

What an asinine statement. Did you even watch the trial at all, or are you just parroting what the black leaders are telling you?

 

[Choke on the Magic]

That was around BEFORE rap music glorified it. The music is just a symptom of what was already happening in those areas.

I agree with this. It's similar to the arguement of vidya game being the reason for youth violence, school shootings etc. While the messaging isn't positive no rapper, rockstar, or video game has ever forced or tricked someone into commiting a crime.

 

[YoungHav]

The only criminals I see wearing hoodies are undercover NYPD.

 

[YoungHav]

What an asinine statement. Did you even watch the trial at all, or are you just parroting what the black leaders are telling you?

Black leaders told us it took more than a month to arrest.GZ or did.that.actually happen?

 

[empty vessel]

Could there be shared responsibility here? Perhaps some middle ground between putting all the blame on "gangsta" culture and putting all the blame on white people?

All the blame is on white people.* The argument that black people share responsibility for their disproportionate poverty is like assigning part of the blame for rape on the woman's decision to wear a short skirt. The person who committed the rape is in the wrong. Likewise, the people imposing disproportionate poverty on black people are in the wrong.

* I am using "white people" to refer to a specific politically aligned class consisting of mostly white people. You might know this group as "conservatives." It even contains some black people! And it does not include all white people. Basically, this is Bill O'Reilly's audience. Hence the talking points and complete denial of responsibility. This is a political group that absolutely detests accountability, so we should not be surprised by this display.

 

[Black Republican]

Also, what music is O'Reilly even referring to? I don't keep up with what's really popular in rap, but does he really think guys like Jay-Z, Kanye, or Drake are "part of the problem"?

i'll never forget when Stephen Corbert referred Nas as a Gangsta rapper when he came on his show, smh.

i guess Rap isnt allowed to have multiple musical differences similar to Rock/POP/Dance etc

 

[The Technomancer]

What does that have to do with what you quoted me on? If you meant to quote my previous post then sure if they're both wrong that's a valid arguement, but if Cosby's right O'Reilly can't be wrong in his statement regardless of him obviously appealing to a specific demographic (white people) who watch his show.

Well for starters I think you're using "right" and "wrong" too easily with complex and, especially in a dialogue like this, ill-defined issues. For example, I wouldn't say that Bill Cosby is "right", not at all. Just that his opinion on the matter is probably more informed then O'Reilly's

 

[jmdajr]

I agree with this. It's similar to the arguement of vidya game being the reason for youth violence, school shootings etc. While the messaging isn't positive no rapper, rockstar, or video game has ever forced or tricked someone into commiting a crime.

Coming from me, music has always been entertainment. Granted I don't listen to rap/hip-hop, I never went crazy with sex/drugs because of cock rock, or go burning down church's because of black metal.

I assume for the majority of listeners, gangsta rap is merely entertainment. However, I will say that form of music seems far more real than the stuff I liked.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Blaming black family structure is an old tactic that ignore the institutionalized issues facing black Americans that are more of a deterrent than whether they're parents are together, whether their mom goes to work or whether their father makes less than their mother.

You can't deny that having a stable family structure and home environment has a role in the success of youth though. Outside of that what would you say is the biggest institutionalized issue black americans face?

 

[.GqueB.]

For those who can't watch, synopsis -

- Martin was targetted because of his appearance. Not necessarily his skin tone, but his attire.
- It was wrong for Zimmerman to confront Martin based on Martin's appearance, but it was understandable because Martin's appearance was congruent with the appearance of "street criminals".
- Young black men commit homicide at a rate 10 times higher than hispanics and whites combined.
- The problem is the disintegration of the African American family.
- 73% of African American babies born out of wedlock. Sons grow up resentful.
- We need Sharpton to do an ad telling black girls to avoid getting pregnant.
- White people don't force black people to get pregnant.
- The entertainment industry encourages this behavior by promoting "gangsta" culture.

One hell of a ride.

I mean... a lot of that is true. I witness many of these things on a daily basis. His last few comments are a bit dramatic though. I'm not even sure the last one is true anymore.

 

[speedline]

I swear to god, ever since Trayvon's story came out, GAF is getting more and more bold with its blatant racism.

Jesus FUCK.

Why is it that everyone agrees that we need to have an open conversation about race, it's all fine and dandy as long as we only discuss the things that white people need to change as a whole. As soon as the dialogue focuses on some changes that should be looked at in the black community, it's seen as "blatant racism".

Do you not feel there needs to be changes made in both communities?

 

[Vice]

Coming from me, music has always been entertainment. Granted I don't listen to rap/hip-hop, I never went crazy with sex/drugs because of cock rock, or go burning down church's because of black metal.

I assume for the majority of listeners, gangsta rap is mealy entertainment. However, I will say that form of music seems for more real than the stuff I liked.

Gangster rap is incredibly unrealistic. You have former law enforcement agents rapping about being drugs czars and everyone just plays along.

 

[Chojin]

Coming from me, music has always been entertainment. Granted I don't listen to rap/hip-hop, I never went crazy with sex/drugs because of cock rock, or go burning down church's because of black metal.

I assume for the majority of listeners, gangsta rap is merely entertainment. However, I will say that form of music seems for more real than the stuff I liked.

Yeah the music thing is kinda thin. I grew up listening to Queen and I never tried to buy swords and cut off people's heads.

I later then grew up listening to Crust punk like Leftover Crack and I never smoked crack, worshipped the devil, or shoot your kids at school because they grow up to be a fucking asshole just like you. Or uh... become a vegan.

 

[Vice]

You can't deny that having a stable family structure and home environment has a role in the success of youth though. Outside of that what would you say is the biggest institutionalized issue black americans face?

Even when the black family structure was stable it was seen as a problem for not being conventional.

Right now the biggest issue is the amount of felonies black receive for drug related crimes. It's not even that we use drugs significantly more or less than any other groups our community has just been targeted far more.

Next would be lack of access to proper education for those in poor neighborhoods.

 

[empty vessel]

You can't deny that having a stable family structure and home environment has a role in the success of youth though. Outside of that what would you say is the biggest institutionalized issue black americans face?

But Republicans like O'Reilly oppose policies that would create stability for impoverished children. It is this fact that almost makes what O'Reilly is doing here an act of pure hatred. O'Reilly, and Republicans generally, have no intention of supporting any policy that would improve the stability and quality of life of a poor black kid.

 

[Frank the Great]

What an asinine statement. Did you even watch the trial at all, or are you just parroting what the black leaders are telling you?

I'm not talking about the trial or its outcome, I don't really care. I'm just explaining why there was a national outrage over Zimmerman when there isn't a peep about many other murders that happen on a daily basis. It had to do with the police and prosecution's slow response to bringing charges against Zimmerman, not merely the fact that a black kid got shot, which unfortunately happens all the time.

 

[Baby Milo]

I swear to god, ever since Trayvon's story came out, GAF is getting more and more bold with its blatant racism.

Jesus FUCK.

that case has exposed it big time

 

[mckmas8808]

Bill is a moron but he has a point about black culture. It's fucking ridiculous that gangster culture was shoved down Americas throat. MTV decided that glorifying bullshit like ODB was a good move instead of a positive black role model. I mean, seriously, it's irresponsible to do so when you know kids are watching. However, there are horrible white influences as well, and I don't believe popular media is at fault for why blacks are in the position they are in.

First of all lets just stop this non-sense right NOW! There's NO SUCH THING AS BLACK CULTURE! White people in America buy more rap music than black people, so how are they immune?

And why is it okay for white people to make "gangsta" movies, music, and art but when black people do it, it isn't okay and it influences us?

 

[faceless007]

You can't deny that having a stable family structure and home environment has a role in the success of youth though. Outside of that what would you say is the biggest institutionalized issue black americans face?

How about the war on drugs and for-profit prison industrial complex that incentivizes disenfranchising poor communities?

It's rather convenient to say that blacks should just step up and start stable homes and families if you ignore the systematic and institutionalized system that is exceedingly good at preventing that from happening.

 

[anotherVegan]

Blame the victim. Nice one, Bill-O.

Edit: Blaming the entire black community for violence in the media and unwed babies? That's the reason why TM was profiled and stalked and the "situation got out of hand"? Oh dear. How about staying in school, or giving more educational opportunities to poor neighborhoods? Could you start there?

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Well for starters I think you're using "right" and "wrong" too easily with complex and, especially in a dialogue like this, ill-defined issues. For example, I wouldn't say that Bill Cosby is "right", not at all. Just that his opinion on the matter is probably more informed then O'Reilly's

How am I using righ and wrong to easily? I realize in complex someone cannot be totally right in the opinions they express, but then you express that you feel that you don't think Cosby is right at all. Do you explicitly disagree with everything he's said, some of it, or just one point?

Also I don't see the relevance of who's more informed. Cosby has a better informed same opinion you disagree with. So what?

 

[muddream]

i'll never forget when Stephen Corbert referred Nas as a Gangsta rapper when he came on his show, smh.

i guess Rap isnt allowed to have multiple musical differences similar to Rock/POP/Dance etc

Nas fans like to forget about The Firm, but it really happened.

 

[dave is ok]

I don't get why it can't be both.

Every post is either a.) the white people need to stop the systemic disenfranchisement and racial profiling, etc. or b.) black kids need father figures and better role models than professional athletes and rappers and the crime rates are disproportionately high

Why not both GAF?

 

[jmdajr]

First of all lets just stop this non-sense right NOW! There's NO SUCH THING AS BLACK CULTURE! White people in America buy more rap music than black people, so how are they immune?

And why is it okay for white people to make "gangsta" movies, music, and art but when black people do it, it isn't okay and it influences us?

Probably just because they trying to make some sort of correlation between that and the disproportionately higher crime rates.

Sort of unrelated but in Mexico you have songs called Narco Corridos that glorify drug lords.
At least over there while I assume some just treat it as entertainment too, I think there is a percentage of the youth that actually treat this music legitimately. It's not just for fun, it's their dream.

The rap music thing I believe, is nowhere neat that extreme.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

How about the war on drugs and for-profit prison industrial complex that incentivizes disenfranchising poor communities?

It's rather convenient to say that blacks should just step up and start stable homes and families if you ignore the systematic and institutionalized system that is exceedingly good at preventing that from happening.

Isn't that the point I was making in the first place? Find the catalyst that breaks black families up and change it. It's not just the CJS it's a broken welfare system, and a broken public education system. All of these things contribute to it.