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Thoughts on Growlanser 1

Shouta

Member
About two months ago, I posted a thread asking about what games I should pick up while I was in Japan. That was a fun little thread. Ultimately, I ended up picking up Growlanser 1 (amongst a number of other titles) for the Playstation in anticipation for Growlanser Generations (which I'm currently playing, I'll have impressions of it up fairly soon) which is slated for late October/early November.

For those the unintiated, Growlanser is a game series developed by CareerSoft and published by Atlus in Japan. The first Growlanser game was released in 1999 on the Playstation. Apparently, it was considerably successful as it spawned 3 subsequent sequels (a few other miscellanous things) and made it on to Atlus' Best Collection series. The game is an RPG although its battle system has strategy leanings for its combat system which make it akin to Arc The Lad in presentation (although far better in actual gameplay). The game is heavily voiced with anywhere from 4-6 actual hours of Voice Acting (a rough estimate).

Being for the Playstation, the game uses very modest looking 2D which is somewhat standard for most anime-styled (different from anime game) games on the Playstation. It doesn't have the major bells and whistles but its fairly pleasant. The best part of the visuals comes from the incredibly nice character protraits done by Satoshi Urushihara (who's worked extensively on the Langrisser Series as well as several other animes/games). His character designs in this game are actually his least ludicrous in his entire body of work for anime/games although still a bit silly in some of the clothes design.
Also, there's a few cutscenes sprinkled throughout the game for major events (not too different from the hentai games that are a giant weed in Japan).

When I finished the game a few weeks back, I had noticed the credits were in English as well as Japanese as I recall. Amongst the voice-acting credits and the development staff credits, I noticed a name that I hadn't expected, Noriyuki Iwadare. I had not realized at all that he was the composer for the game until the credit roll. What shocked me more was that I don't recall the ingame soundtrack giving me an Iwadare vibe at all. I mean, most of his previous works that are fairly well-known (Grandia and Lunar) sound very similar in tone but Growlanser wasn't at all alike to Lunar and Grandia audially. To be honest, the in-game music was fairly humble and nothing really stuck out to me during the game. It was pleasant just like the graphics though which isn't a bad thing. I think a reason why I didn't pay attention to the in-game music was due to the voice-acting that was coming at you left and right. There's just so much of it that I think there were less cutscenes without voice-acting than with it. The voice-acting was actually fairly good for the Japanese version save for a few instances where I wanted to choke Ruise (Louise in WD's translation of Growlanser II). There's a ton of voice-acted games floating in Japan but usually these fall into a very cookie-cutter voice/tone/acting rut most of the time.

The core of most Japanese RPGs are the battle system. With Growlanser, it tried something a little different compared to many of its peers at the time. The game doesn't use an overworld like Final Fantasy 7-9/many other JRPGs. Rather, it connects towns together using map screens that you run through between each town like in Secret of Mana. By doing this, they use the traveling screen as a battlefield as well. So when you encounter an enemy, rather than switching to a combatverse, your characters pulled out their weapons and get ready to fight. Most people would say that Grandia is the logical evolution of the ATB system of Final Fantasy by factoring in movement which plays a part in combat (i.e. characters are stationary until their attack turn comes up and then they have to close the distance between enemies to initate their attack). Growlanser's battle system is just a hop down the line from Grandia in that it now allows you to control the movement of your characters. Combine this with a slightly different wait system and Growlanser comes out as a more strategy based game. There's several other reasons why but the wait system, the control/movement system, and the setup of event battles are the primary reason (the other ones would take too long to explain).

The wait system for Growlanser works differently when compared to Final Fantasy and Grandia. Rather than a gauge filling up and it becoming your turn, using an item and attacking in battle causes the meter to fill up to a certain amount and after that meter is empty, the character is ready to act again. Different weapon types cause different amounts of CT to be added. Magic works on the same principle however, you can only cast it after the designated CT is up for the spell. Additonally, magic can be held so you can cast a spell later if you so choose. Taking and dealing hits also add CT. With how the wait system works in Growlanser, you're given an element to take into consideration. There's the possibility of casting a strong spell for higher damage with a long CT at the risk of getting hit and extending the time to cast it or you can cast a short CT spell with less of a chance of being delayed but at the cost of damage (and usually MP). This same consideration comes into play for the melees because most characters are able to use different types of weapons with different CT counts and different effects.

Skills and abilities are handled through a point system for mastery. It's a simple little system that gives you points to allot to different skills. After a certain amount of points are pumped into a skill, the skill is mastered and the character can then use it to their benefit. The points are only gained after leveling (with the exception of a skill scroll that's possible to get later in the game). You start by gaining 1 point per level and eventually it steps up to 2 points a level then finally 3 a level. Abilities show up at certain levels or if you meet a level and skill requirement. It's a simple little diddy but it's a nice because it allows the player to prioritize what skills you want to get as you progress since the points are limited in number (unless you're a leveling fiend).

The gameplay for Growlanser is very simple (if you haven't noticed already from what I said above). It probably would be considered bare bones when put up against many other games that are out nowadays (or even for the time). The big sticking point that makes Growlanser interesting lies not in the systems but the actual battles. The non-event battles are fairly mindless for the most part but event battles are often-structured with a number of stipulations as well ast he objectives that players need to overcome to win the event. Simply running in and whacking stuff is a good and fast way to lose event battles. You're forced to use all the available resources that are given to you (and what you have chosen) as best as possible. You simply cannot be mindless in what you do as all the actions the player takes can affect the outcome of a battle. I recall a number of battles where I sent a character off to look at something in a corner but only to have my battleline overwhelmed because of thenumbers of troops. Having my character go putz around in that corner costed me the battle.

As I said above, event battles often have objectives and stipulations The objectives for each battle differ and range from "Protect the Villagers" to "Escort X ally to this location". On top of that, there's stipulations in the battles as well such as there being a forest fire hot on your heels and enemies in front of while during the escort mission. On top of the event battles having a host of different things occuring, often the AI will hit key points to the strategy you're using. If the AI knows you're casting a huge spell for big damage, they know to aim for that character as well as for the objective. They'll also poison, stun, lower your attack, aim for people low in health, aim for healers amongst a whole other slew of things. I wouldn't say that the AI is horribly brutal and adaptive but it shows a lot more initiative compared to many other JRPGs. All of these aspects of the battle system put together is what really makes me enjoy it. It's not as mindless as other RPGs but it isn't a pure numbers game or luck/powergamer based like a number of SRPGs, it comes down to how effectively you use your troops and how to proritize your goals and the risks involved.

Moving on, the core of most RPGs is the story. Growlanser, in all honesty, is a fairly straight-forward Anime RPG. There aren't many fantastic elements that set Growlanser's world apart from others but what they do have is thoroughly enjoyable for me. Growlanser's world is very fantasy-flavored with all the whatnot about kingdoms going to war and etc but there's a little bit of a science fiction feel in there.

At any rate, the story begins with a couple on a hill overlooking the land. The man says that he's a mere soldier, that fame and money mean little to him. He then asks her to marry him and gives her a ring. Elated, the women says that she's waited a long time for this and said she would.

The scene then fades to black. You then here a voice (young female) calling out "Wake up brother, wake up!". You hear another voice say "Leave this to me Ruise-chan! <See my avatar + tag>". You get knocked around and open your eyes to a girl with pink-hair and in pony-tails and a little flying girl with wings grimacing angrily at you. These two characters are Ruise Fallsmeyer, your sister, and Tippi, a homunculus fairy that your mother Sandra created. They came upstairs to wake you up because your mother has returned home (apparently she doesn't get back to the house very much) and wanted to speak to you. You walk downstairs and greet your mother alongside Ruise and Tippi. She asls a little about how everything around the house is and Ruise replies. After the short exchange, Sandra wants you and Tippi to go around town and etc. The purpose of this little trip as you find out is for Tippi to evaluate your character. This sequence ultimately determines primary stats and stat growth as I recall. After Tippi's report, Sandra mentions that it's been a long 16 years (might be 17, I can't recall off the top of my head) since she found you as a little boy and that it's time for you to go out into the world in search for whatever is out there (and if I recall, she mentions that you should find out about who you are). Your character agrees with her. Afterwards, Sandra dismisses you so you may look around town (you set off tommorrow).

Eventually, you make it up to the top of a hill NW of Rolandia (your home kingdom) where you happen to see a ghost. This ghost says she's glad to see you and that it has been a long time. She gives you a ring and then dissappears. Tippi and the main character are slightly confused and as it is getting dark they decide to go back to town and figure it out after they're in a safe place. However, on the way back you meet a woman in a nurse outfit that's being attacked by bandits. You rush to protect her as another man enters the battle from town. You and the mysterious man thwart the bandits and save the girl. As you find out after the battle, these two characters are sibling name Xenos and Karene. They thank you for your help and run back to safety in town. Just as you're walking back, you suddenly collapse. Tippi panics and runs to find help. The next thing you know, you're in Sandra's research facility fending off some thieves in white armor with helmets that have what looks like 4-eyes. You succeed in defeating one but another escapes with a magic guide that belonged to your mother. This is the beginning of the game.

The game's story lasts quite awhile (took me like 40-45 hours to finish my first time) and starts off fairly slow. It quickly ramps up as you go however. The plot of the game is, frankly, been told about 100 times before so it isn't anything new. However, what really drives the game is the characters. Many of the characters are based around cliches but they aren't grounded in to the point that it becomes a negative. For example, Ruise is the main character's demure younger sister. She's a Growsian (a type of person who's endowed with potentially powerful magical abilities due to several reasons). Quite often, she's annoying but she does a have strong side that breaks her away from being the standard little sister character. She's resolute in combat and willing to get into the thick of things when she's needed. She shows incredible initiative throughout the game and signs of being very perceptive. A lot of RPGs just make characters out in these archetypes and just never do anything with them throughout the game. Growlanser takes these characters and builds on them for the player so they come out very lively and have strong personalities rather than being cookie-cutter. Growlanser does this amazingly well for a JRPG and I wish many other serious JRPGs took the time to truly build their characters.

The game has quite a few of positives like the stuff I mentioned above (Battle system and characters) but it does have some negatives to be frank. There's a lack of customization and battle options for the player to fiddle with. While there is the mastery of skills, it's really not enough customization at all so you're playing with characters set into specific roles. This is a little offset by how strategic the battles are but there really wasn't any reason to not add a little more customization to the game. Thankfully this was alleviated for Growlanser II. Another one of my complaints is that the game isn't that difficult if you're paying close attention to what you're doing. There's a few battles here and there that tested my mettle (due to specific objective/stipulation combinations) but for the most part the game wasn't exactly as tough as I initially. Also, I had hoped for a few more unique event battles like the escort mission I mentioned above. These event battles provided a really unique challenge that a lot of RPGs don't give players and I had wished there were more during Growlanser 1. There's also the slight pacing issue I have with the plot but it's only a minor quibble at best.

While there are a few negative things I can say about the game, I ended up enjoying it immensely. I was quite surprised at just how good the game was and it makes me wonder how anyone could call it mediocre or average. It does a lot of things right while keeping the problems to a minimum. I'd probably say Growlanser is my 2nd favorite Playstation RPG now, behind Valkyrie Profile. It's a darn shame that we never got it here stateside and probably won't get it for awhile unless someone ports it to another system or remakes it since SCEA seems like they won't allow it to happen currently it seems.

If anyone has some questions, feel free to ask. I'll be doing a thread on Growlanser Generations probably within a few days since I just finished the English version of Growlanser II by Working Designs.
 

kiryogi

Banned
Tho on the Iwadare comment, he's worked on the X7 OST too! And the track wasn't too impressive either. Aside from that, it doesn't seem like he's been doing much lately aside D:
 

vireland

Member
Tho on the Iwadare comment, he's worked on the X7 OST too! And the track wasn't too impressive either. Aside from that, it doesn't seem like he's been doing much lately aside

Iwadare-san has branched out from games to do many non-game projects of pretty substantial scale. He did the holiday program for Tokyo Disneyland a few years back, for example.

The town music in Growlanser 1 in the town with the graveyard attached to it (forget the name...) TOTALLY sounds like his stuff.
 

Tsubaki

Member
Why's everyone talking about just the music?

Growlanser rocks! My favorite PS1 game. But I've heard nothing but disappointment for the PS2 installments... and this is coming from Growlanser fans.

Edit:

Oh, and my take on Grandia vs Growlanser battle system is this. They have the same components, but two different emphases.

Grandia has a positioning element, but it's not nearly as precise as Growlanser. Instead, the battle engine stresses the "you affect me, I affect you" aspect of gameplay and strategy revolves around that.

Growlanser has a "you affect me, I affect you" element, but it's not as fleshed out as in Grandia. Instead, the battle engine stresses specific positioning of units that plays out like a semi-real time SRPG. It works out really nicely, and it's one of the few games where I will say that strategy matters. I've died many times in this game. Died. In an RPG. But when you die, you realize it's because you had a bad strategy. Not because you were underpowered. Think of a different way to approach things, and you may be awarded the win. Or lose, and try again.

It's games like Grandia and Growlanser that bring much-needed evolution to a stale genre. And it's because of games like Grandia and Growlanser that I can not tolerate a "normal" jRPG anymore. Or perhaps I never could tolerate them.
 

vireland

Member
Why's everyone talking about just the music?

Well I was talking about the music because the person before was talking about Iwadare-san's involvement, and wondering what "happened" to him. I had a bit to offer, so I did.

If you got me started about the cool and unique things in the Growlanser series, I would be talking for a LONG time. The battle system and characters are what charmed me into fighting tooth and nail to be ABLE to bring the games out here, even when the gaming gatekeepers initially said "no". The mix of pseudo-realtime and SRPG elements is really refreshing for someone like me who plays a LOT of RPGs, and I felt (/feel) that people in the US deserved to sample it.

I would have *loved* to do GL I, and still have it on my wishlist (which isn't that outlandish given that Growlanser III ends with a wraparound to GL I, being that GLIII's a prequel) for another day/another platform, but getting people introduced with II and III and moving from there is much better than missing out on this.
 

Tabs

Member
Excellent write-up Shouta, thanks. If Vic sent out the goods at the beginning of this week, I might have GII and GIII today, and I'm really looking forward to getting started.
 

Shouta

Member
Oh, and my take on Grandia vs Growlanser battle system is this. They have the same components, but two different emphases.

Grandia has a positioning element, but it's not nearly as precise as Growlanser. Instead, the battle engine stresses the "you affect me, I affect you" aspect of gameplay and strategy revolves around that.

Growlanser has a "you affect me, I affect you" element, but it's not as fleshed out as in Grandia. Instead, the battle engine stresses specific positioning of units that plays out like a semi-real time SRPG. It works out really nicely, and it's one of the few games where I will say that strategy matters. I've died many times in this game. Died. In an RPG. But when you die, you realize it's because you had a bad strategy. Not because you were underpowered. Think of a different way to approach things, and you may be awarded the win. Or lose, and try again.

I've always found Grandia to be a frenetic game and that the elements they added over the standard turn-based battle system to be somewhat frivolous with the exception of the cancel/combo attacks. The elements outside of the cancel/combo attacks just don't add that much and don't expand the strategies that are usable. Sure, there's the IP system but it moves at break next speeds and you can't fully control and utilize it yourself. Not being able to control it means that you have to let your stats play it out. Even with gear that speeds up or slows down IP, it's still imprecise so you can't properly craft strategies that are detailed. Even the movement system doesn't really matter much because the battlefields are often terribly small and usually characters have enough MOV to get to enemies without much assistance unless they get hung up on another character (which happens far too often in Grandia games).

With Growlanser, you have control of the elements that really add strategy to the game. The Wait system isn't based on a meter filling up, it's based on how much wait you accumulate and how well it degrades. You have to decide if waiting longer for a stronger attack is worth it compared to an attack with shorter wait but less damage is better. The same goes for spells. The MOV system actually plays a part as well. I mean rather than simply being a number that determines how far you can move, it's a stat determines how fast you move. Combine it with how movement works, you have an element that matters to how well you play. You can decide to use a weaker character with higher MOV to intercept an enemy or use a character with slower MOV but a Ranged attack. The application of strategies in Growlanser is something that amazes me for a JRPG but it lacks a lot of customization (which is alleviated for Growlanser 2 and 3).

Trav: I'll be doing a Growlanser Generations write-up sometime soon. I jsut started Growlanser III yesterday.
 

Tsubaki

Member
If speaking soley on strategy, and playing the thinking man's game, Growlanser's battle system wins. If you consider Growlanser an SRPG, I would say it's the best SRPG system to date. If you consider Growlanser a traditional RPG, I would say it's one of the best sytems to date.

No need to discuss Grow's system any further. It's awesome. And everyone's in agreement.

But I look at Grandia's system in a slightly different manner than you. I believe Grandia's system added more than just breaking down basic attacks into combo and critical, and the aspects it added to RPGing were more than just cosmetic.

Position - You have limited control over your movement, although that does matter at least in the earlier parts of the game where you may miss your turn because you can't get in range of your opponent because of distance, roadblock, etc. It seems kinda like a gimmick, but it does play a role in earlier battles. I personally only used the menu command a couple times to position my characters. I would use it more if it were more precise like the Lunar and Growlanser games. But I would say that this is one element that was clumsily implemented by GameArts.

IP Gauge - You're right... if Grandia had allowed a wait system similar to how Final Fantasies and Chrono Trigger work, it could be a lot more strategic. But GA didn't do it so the point is moot. In fact, it might have been done like that on purpose so as to allow the game to be ever-dynamic and fast-paced. See, because Grandia is all about the you- affect-me, I-affect-you gamestyle. It can not be precisely measured (neither can it in Growlanser), but you have a general idea that if you hit someone, their turn stops momentarily. Depending on what kind of hit, spell, etc it can be a half second pause in their turn, to stunning the opponent for a few seconds, to delaying it quite a bit and completely negating their turn.

Thus the IP gauge is quite critical to the game. More so than in Growlanser. It's not "fully controlled" like you say, but based on experimentation, you learn what each attack does and what effects they have on the battle.

What I like most about Grandia 1 in particular is the element of risk, of chance, of luck. When you choose to do a Critical attack, execution time is not immediate compared to the Combo. And if you choose a Critical, a stun or cancel is not guaranteed. Instead, by choosing that command, you have a possibility of stunning or cancelling an opponent's turn. And that made the game even more frantic. Having to weigh out all the possibilities and go with what you believe. By contrast, Grandia II and Xtreme made Criticals far more powerful and consistent taking that element of chance out. In the process, it does pave the way for more predictable results. But the element of risk is all but absent.

My point isn't that Grandia is better than Growlanser. It is to show that Grandia offers a -different- gaming experience and philosophy that can be enjoyed just as much as Growlanser's. That's why I say both games have different emphases. Because each game takes a theme and runs with it. Both games succeed at what they wanted to be.
 

Shouta

Member
My eyes just glazed over.

:lol

I do like Grandia's system but it's just irksome to me that some of the implementation was done so that it was based around being reactive as opposed to proactive. Planned strategies hardly work and often you're just going with the flow of the battle and seeing what the enemy is doing. That's not too different from a fairly cut and dry RPGs except you can see what the enemies are doing (and the bosses are full of Nitro =D). I hadn't thought about the mechanics of Grandia and how it changed the way the game played until I finished Growlanser. It just hit me that the implementation wasn't up to the point where it really did change the game experience for me, rather that it just added more to futz around with. I'm not saying Grandia's battle system is bad but I've realized in retrospect that there were other games at the time that did the same thing (and better) and that Grandia wasn't the "omg, super evolution" as I made it out to be way back when.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Excellent review, I was really interested in this game, because of the battle system, and because of the fact I'm a big Langrisser fan (though I haven't beat all of em!)... I can't wait to read how you think 2 and 3 match up to the first one, I hear the first one's still the best... but 2 and 3 will be in English at least :p
 

Shouta

Member
Langrisser doesn't play anything like Growlanser though =x. You must be an Urushihara fan (who isn't =D)!
 

WarPig

Member
Shouta said:
Langrisser doesn't play anything like Growlanser though =x. You must be an Urushihara fan (who isn't =D)!

Well, Career Soft made both series (at least I'm pretty sure they did). GL's a complete departure, though, yeah.

Newer Urushihara shit doesn't do much for me compared to his older stuff. Ever since he discovered bush, the magic's gone. And while I dig him as a pure cheesecake/pinup artist, anything he draws portraying a female in a state of sexual excitement tends to come across as disturbingly pathological.

DFS.
 

Shouta

Member
I still dig his art when he isn't being all hentai with it. His Growlanser designs get more scantily-clad as the series goes on though. His male designs are better than his female designs, by a huge margin.
 

jarrod

Banned
WarPig said:
Well, Career Soft made both series (at least I'm pretty sure they did). GL's a complete departure, though, yeah.
The Langrisser games were made by NCS/Masaya... I *think* CareerSoft is made up of former Masaya guys though.
 

vireland

Member
The Langrisser games were made by NCS/Masaya... I *think* CareerSoft is made up of former Masaya guys though.

CareerSoft is basically the Langrisser team. It's clear that the creative juice behind the series had left the building when the HORRIBLE last DC installment of "Langrisser" was released. Masaya tried to do it without them and failed miserably.
 

WarPig

Member
vireland said:
CareerSoft is basically the Langrisser team. It's clear that the creative juice behind the series had left the building when the HORRIBLE last DC installment of "Langrisser" was released. Masaya tried to do it without them and failed miserably.

Ah, good old Langrisser Millennium, ye of the famous amateur-anime-music-video-editor Premiere screwup.

Dave H. thought that one was a masterpiece for reasons I never heard him completely explain. I'm guessing cartoon breasts factored in heavily.

DFS.
 

ferricide

Member
i'm sitting here wondering if i can stand to sit through another iwadare soundtrack. was he involved with II and III?

seriously, i'm very curious about growlanser.
 

Shouta

Member
He didn't have anything to do with Growlanser II and III.

I have Langrisser Milennium, I picked that up in Japan for like 5 bucks. I really like the art for the game and it has the whole Dragon Force/Brigandine setup. It's too bad the gameplay sucks ass.
 

Shouta

Member
If you're worried about Iwadare's music in Growlanser, it isn't very prominent (at least to me). In fact, Growlanser II and III's music stands out a lot more than Growlanser I's music.
 

vireland

Member
I have Langrisser Milennium, I picked that up in Japan for like 5 bucks. I really like the art for the game and it has the whole Dragon Force/Brigandine setup. It's too bad the gameplay sucks ass.

I completely agree. I was looking forward to Langrisser Millennium because it looked a LOT like the Dragon Force overworld setup, but I wasn't prepared for the sucky, slow-motion, ultraboring, glitchy gameplay.

I played it to the end and was rewarded with a movie near the end of the game that had (really) obvious problems caused by an issue with Premiere. It was easy to fix, and they didn't even bother.
 

ferricide

Member
990909_l.jpg


no one whose art i instantly recognize, anyway.

Sega page said:
(C)1999 NCS/SANTA &#12461;&#12515;&#12521;&#12463;&#12479;&#12540;&#12487;&#12470;&#12452;&#12531;&#65306;&#20171;&#37679;

santa, eh? wonder if it's the same one that made astra super stars. i think they were called santa...

http://sega.jp/dc/db/990909.html

it says "character design: kaishuku" which the dictionary defines as 'suicide assistant'. cheery!

enjoy playing in google, i don't feel like it. =)
 

Dead

well not really...yet
ferricide said:
990909_l.jpg


no one whose art i instantly recognize, anyway.
Looks like Satoshi Shiki


:Edit: uhh, actually maybe not, but thats the first name to come up in my head when I saw that picture
 

Dead

well not really...yet
shit, totally off...


From Shit manga to shit RPG, impressive resume this Kaishaku fella
 

Tsubaki

Member
Shouta said:
I'm not saying Grandia's battle system is bad but I've realized in retrospect that there were other games at the time that did the same thing (and better) and that Grandia wasn't the "omg, super evolution" as I made it out to be way back when.

Hmm. Just curious, what other games do you think that incorporated similar elements of Grandia that was about the same or better?

In my mind, even though I would say RPG is my favorite genre, I only think three of them are any good: Grandia, Growlanser, and Panzer Dragoon Saga. The rest is rather unforgettable or just complete trash.
 

Shouta

Member
Growlanser is about it, off the top of my head. I meant an alternative game as opposed to more games when I said "other games".
 

vireland

Member
Hmm. Just curious, what other games do you think that incorporated similar elements of Grandia that was about the same or better?

I don't think there's another to this point. Grandia and Growlanser are about it. For me, it was the environmental happenings DURING event battles (moving spiked walls, disappearing floors, lasers shooting from walls) are what really made it easy to fall in love with the Growlansers (of course the Urushihara-san artwork didn't hurt...)
 
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