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Thousands of Baltimore residents protest Freddie Gray’s death

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commedieu

Banned
Cømet;161712982 said:
Uh okay...

I guess you missed my edit after I understood your intention.

Cømet;161712982 said:
Uh okay...


I already said I hadn't read the whole thread, and gave an immediate addition to my thoughts regarding you post, but okay continue to be unnecessarily hostile....

Reading the entire thread has nothing to do with you assuming I'm condoning murder. As short term as it was, that is an odious suggestion, which wasn't based on anything that I posted. I don't even know how you came to the conclusion that you needed to clarify that. As I separated the protestors, from the problem element, and called them assholes. You read that, and figured you had to ask if I am condoning murder.

Don't take my response to your offensive query, as being hostile. You posted something ridiculous, and I responded to it. No hard feelings on this side of town. Nope, I did not see your edit. I replied to you when I saw it.
 
People acting like the public would get "the message" even if the riots didnt happen. Its just something theyll use to ignore the reason these protests happen in the first place.
 

Sanjuro

Member
It's deplorable, and disappointing, but at the same time not at all surprising. I am honestly surprised black communities have not already reacted more violently. How they have been so patient, and so accepting of such a rotten and vile system, for so long, is baffling to me. The statistics are breathtakingly shocking and appalling. I cannot even believe things have been allowed to get where they are. As a non American, it is beyond comprehension.

Maybe it's the non-American thing. I don't think anyone living in the states, supporting for or against black solidarity, is looking for innocent civilians to start killing one another.

Ever.
 

Merc_

Member
Why is it though? What isn't allowing him/her to see how flawed their argument is? What is getting in the way of realizing that this is a unfortunate situation, but it isn't the official message from the Black Congress of the nation...?

I've personally always thought that the just-world fallacy has a lot to do with it. That's assuming the best of someone though. Other times I think its just a plain lack of empathy and being able to live your life without ever dealing of the ill effects of this problem. While some folks just like the status quo and will do anything to try and resist any change to it because it could then potentiality affect their life in some unknown manner. This is just speaking in general though.
 

nib95

Banned
Maybe it's the non-American thing. I don't think anyone living in the states, supporting for or against black solidarity, is looking for innocent civilians to start killing one another.

Ever.

Are you just intentionally being obtuse? Do you actually and honestly believe anyone in this thread, including me, is actually condoning violence (or murder) towards innocents?
 

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
Only an idiot would say the violent parts of the protests represent the whole. But there are a lot of idiots out there.
 
I've personally always thought that the just-world fallacy has a lot to do with it. That's assuming the best of someone though. Other times I think its just a plain lack of empathy and being able to live your life without ever dealing of the ill effects of this problem. While some folks just like the status quo and will do anything to try and resist any change to it because it could then potentiality affect their life in some unknown manner. This is just speaking in general though.

This is the thing about race-relations in America; there really is no benefit for the majority in trying to make things better. This is where a lot of the apathy comes from, when it doesn't turn into outright antipathy. On the global stage as well, there is no tangible benefit to America getting it's act together; the country can still appear relatively progressive on human rights and holds enough existing power that there's no pressing need for change.
 

Cømet

Banned
And nobody in here is saying it does. Way to completely and utterly miss the point.

I didn't realise making your stance known was missing the point. Noted!


Reading the entire thread has nothing to do with you assuming I'm condoning murder. As short term as it was, that is an odious suggestion, which wasn't based on anything that I posted. I don't even know how you came to the conclusion that you needed to clarify that. As I separated the protestors, from the problem element, and called them assholes. You read that, and figured you had to ask if I am condoning murder.

Don't take my response to your offensive query, as being hostile. You posted something ridiculous, and I responded to it. No hard feelings on this side of town. Nope, I did not see your edit. I replied to you when I saw it.

I deleted my whole response because you had indeed only just caught my edit. Apologies are all I can offer! Nice passive-aggressive behaviour though, that'll take you far here :)
 

Crosseyes

Banned
Oh, I'm not going to let you know where I draw the line. The point is, oppression of an entire group of people will produce violence. You cannot willingly allow for the existence of a system that incarcerates, injures, terrorizes, and murders a segment of the population without repercussions. I'll just leave it at that.
Indeed the severity of the situation was going to lead to this.

One can disapprove of the violent outburst of an oppressed and terrorized people while fully understanding their reasoning and justification for doing so.
 

Cømet

Banned
Only an idiot would say the violent parts of the protests represent the whole. But there are a lot of idiots out there.

Therefore lies the problem my friend. As previously said; a person is smart, people are stupid and easily scared. In more or less the same words....
 

commedieu

Banned
Cømet;161714854 said:
I didn't realise making your stance known was missing the point. Noted!




I deleted my whole response because you had indeed only just caught my edit. Apologies are all I can offer! Nice passive-aggressive behaviour though, that'll take you far here :)

Why are you continuing with this sophomoric behavior of pretending that I'm being hostile to you, or passive aggressive, and that you're just the gee-golly-ole nice guy who simply posted something amazingly offensive? There is no need to be aggressive, or passive aggressive of the internet. You posted something, I responded to it. Then you edited it. Your edit doesn't make it any less offensive that you didn't even care to read anything, and just assume I'm supporting murder. Thats about the end of that, it seems.

I'd accept your apology, but I don't even think you understand what just happened. But, cheers?
 

Cømet

Banned
Why are you continuing with this sophomoric behavior of pretending that I'm being hostile to you, or passive aggressive, and that you're just the gee-golly-ole nice guy who simply posted something amazingly offensive? There is no need to be aggressive, or passive aggressive of the internet. You posted something, I responded to it. Then you edited it. Your edit doesn't make it any less offensive that you didn't even care to read anything, and just assume I'm supporting murder. Thats about the end of that, it seems.

I'd accept your apology, but I don't even think you understand what just happened. But, cheers?

Oh come on, stop pretending your post wasn't passive aggressive. Just stop. It doesn't bother me at all, beyond calling you out on your behaviour. Just stop, it doesn't matter. If you don't see it.....well that's an issue you need to address. It's amazing that you see anything more than an honest mistake, which it bloody was. But hey! If you want to be a victim go ahead, I'll just ignore you.

It's also incredibly offtopic. So if you want to continue your panty-twist, send me a PM.
 

Sanjuro

Member
There is a lot of tic for tac that is not warranted in this thread.

I remember with Ferguson, defending the actions of the good towards people without the ear to listen to reason. While I still believe i can defend that here as well, the overall image that has been constructed to the masses is absolute dreadful. I think anyone defending otherwise here is vastly mistaken.
 

Cømet

Banned
Just like the police and their tactics?

It's a curt overview of the whole mess.


It's a genuine clusterfuck of clashing emotions, agendas and politics.



Nobody wins.

There is a lot of tic for tac that is not warranted in this thread.

I remember with Ferguson, defending the actions of the good towards people without the ear to listen to reason. While I still believe i can defend that here as well, the overall image that has been constructed to the masses is absolute dreadful. I think anyone defending otherwise here is vastly mistaken.

Ferguson had a similar mess if I recall right, though much smaller on scale? A horrible minority abusing the moment for their own personal gain and/or otherwise abuse others?


There will always be people like this regardless of the movement. Parasites.
 
I remember getting banned for a handful of stupid comments (that I do regret making) in a thread about a murdered black kid in the USA a few months back. They were born of ignorance and the need to be needlessly contentious. After doing some more research into American police brutality, I can only come to one, reasonable conclusion.

America is fucked up, man. Seriously. There's nothing I envy about life in the USA as an outsider looking in.

Lmao. You are on to us.

This is why we are normalizing relations with Cuba. We are too fat to row there and escape.
 

Mechazawa

Member
Morons are going to find an excuse to riot. Whether it be a protest or a hockey game, that's just the unfortunate consequence of getting a bunch of people bunched up like that.

Has little to do with the actual protests ideals and even waving it away as a consequence of systematic issues doesn't do justice to the people that don't riot and doesn't do justice to the idiots that decide to break shit as the idiots they are.
 
I will say this last thing though.

Recently, there have been a few murders in Baltimore. A 3 year old was gunned down in a drive by shooting. No protests for her.

5 people shoot in broad daylight at the same time. No protests or outrage there.

A drug dealer dies within police custody. No one knows how he died. I haven't heard a single thing about an autopsy, investigation or anything. Everyone comes out of the woodwork and starts protesting.

I left Baltimore to escape the violence. I have no regrets.
This is always my favorite. Plenty of people protest random acts of violence in their communities. Just because you don't hear about them, or seek them out, doesn't make it non-existent. It's always funny to hear people say things like this..happens in almost every one of these similar threads.

In the last four years, blacks have held community protests against violence in Chicago; New York; Newark, New Jersey; Pittsburgh; Saginaw, Michigan; and Gary, Indiana. Indeed, there’s a whole catalog of movies, albums, and sermons from a generation of directors, musicians, and religious leaders, each urging peace and order. You may not have noticed black protests against crime and violence, but that doesn’t mean they haven’t happened. Black Americans—like everyone else—are concerned with what happens in their communities, and at a certain point, pundits who insist otherwise are either lying or willfully ignorant.

To that point, it’s worth noting the extent to which “what about black-on-black crime” is an evasion, an attempt to avoid the fundamental difference between being killed by a citizen and being killed by an agent of law. And it’s not new. “When Ida B. Wells … tried to explain to a wealthy suffragist in Chicago that anti-black violence in the nation must end,” writes historian Khalil Gibran Muhammad for The Nation, “Mary Plummer replied: Blacks need to “drive the criminals out” of the community. ‘Have you forgotten that 10 percent of all the crimes that were committed in Chicago last year were by colored men [less than 3 percent of the population]?’ ”

Regardless of cause or concern, a community doesn’t forfeit fair treatment because it has crime. That was true then when the scourge was lynching, and it’s true now that the scourge is unjust police violence. Say what you will about “black-on-black crime,” just don’t pretend it has anything to do with unfair killings at the hands of the state.

Source..
 

Merc_

Member
This is the thing about race-relations in America; there really is no benefit for the majority in trying to make things better. This is where a lot of the apathy comes from, when it doesn't turn into outright antipathy. On the global stage as well, there is no tangible benefit to America getting it's act together; the country can still appear relatively progressive on human rights and holds enough existing power that there's no pressing need for change.

It's funny in a very dark way that the reason we're seeing all of this start to really pop off is because cameras make it hard to keep the racist behavior of our police force as low key as it used to be. It's harder for the white majority to just outright dismiss us as always making it up and it's beginning to put cracks in some worldviews. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the derailing behavior is the result of that.
 

KingK

Member
Nope. I never said the original message is lost. It just wasn't delivered. I'm quite aware of what actually happened, it's just not the reality the masses are being delivered.
And who's fault is that? Certainly in an ideal world we wouldn't have these assholes using violence during protests where, by all accounts, the vast majority were peaceful (however in that ideal world we also wouldn't have the police brutality leading to the protests). So certainly those assholes deserve their share of the blame for the "message being lost" as you kept saying. However some blame also lies upon the corrupt police department and justice system that sparked all of this and the media/politicians who continually fail to take the issue seriously.

I think where the frustration comes in is the fact that we (society at large) all obviously agree that citizens hurting random innocent strangers is bad. Unfortunately, many people still need to be convinced that structural racism is a thing that needs to be addressed, and that police shouldn't be able to murder black people without repercussion. And yet many are all too willing to take any act of violence during a protest as an opportunity to drown out conversion or distract from anything else, or otherwise discredit the protests at large and their cause.
 

PopeReal

Member
Cømet;161716066 said:
It's a curt overview of the whole mess.


It's a genuine clusterfuck of clashing emotions, agendas and politics.



Nobody wins.

Wrong again. But keep trying.

People just stop this playing both sides bullshit.

One side is being killed and their murderers are walking free among us. Tell me how the other side isn't winning.
 

Cømet

Banned
This is always my favorite. Plenty of people protest random acts of violence in their communities. Just because you don't hear about them, or seek them out, doesn't make it non-existent. It's always funny to hear people say things like this..happens in almost every one of these similar threads.



Source..

Lack of information will be an issue for even the most well informed I'm afraid.


Wrong again. But keep trying.
People just stop this playing both sides bullshit.

One side is being killed and their murderers are walking free among us. Tell me how the other side isn't winning.

Please, explain your position for me then. Murder is black and white, I care not for agendas, race or otherwise. Justify either sides' killing, it'll amuse me at least.
 

KingK

Member
Maybe it's the non-American thing. I don't think anyone living in the states, supporting for or against black solidarity, is looking for innocent civilians to start killing one another.

Ever.
See my previous post on the difference between understanding and supporting. How this distinction is lost on so many people is baffling, then again i usually don't come into these threads.
 

Derwind

Member
How about going and breaking the windows of one of the establishments that you're angry against instead of fucking up innocent people's property? It is irrational to break the property of people who have nothing to do with what you're angry with. This doesn't suddenly change depending on the situation. It has nothing to do with race. That's irrational behavior for any human being. Breaking a window of a deli doesn't suddenly become a rational action just because you're angry with police brutality. And I don't think criminal activity should be ignored, regardless of why it was done.

But do you think it should take over the conversation? Thats the crux of the issue here.

A protest about a specific incident where certain injustices are spoken about is undermined by property damaged that took place within that protest. That to be honest shouldn't even be a story, an investigation in the background sure but not really a story let alone the biggest story of the day.
 

commedieu

Banned
I've personally always thought that the just-world fallacy has a lot to do with it. That's assuming the best of someone though. Other times I think its just a plain lack of empathy and being able to live your life without ever dealing of the ill effects of this problem. While some folks just like the status quo and will do anything to try and resist any change to it because it could then potentiality affect their life in some unknown manner. This is just speaking in general though.

I have the same general idea. I struggle with how to connect with that mindset.
 
Here's your "Message"

Police are killing Black Men unjustly. Its happened multiple times on account. Police do not get tried as criminals, often get the benefit of the doubt in questionable scenarios, and paid vacations.

The Black community is tired of this shit.
 

Cømet

Banned
Here's your "Message"

Police are killing Black Men unjustly. Its happened multiple times on account. Police do not get tried as criminals, often get the benefit of the doubt in questionable scenarios, and paid vacations.

The Black community is tired of this shit.

US police force is in need of a MASSIVE cleanout, no doubt about it. It begs belief that this shit happens in this day and age. Hiring policy needs massive reform and FAR more thorough checks for racists. Regardless of the thread, it's disgustingly shocking that such horrible people are allowed any power over others.


As just a cause as it is, the killing of any innocent is still deplorable.
 
It's deplorable, and disappointing, but at the same time not at all surprising. I am honestly surprised black communities have not already reacted more violently.

Oh its coming. Unfortunately its inevitable at this point. As long at white America continue to ignore and outright deny the systemic racism that permeates every level of out justice system from police enforcement to prisons. The rage and discontent will continue to grow. The eventual push back will be big, ugly and violent.
 
Here's your "Message"

Police are killing Black Men unjustly. Its happened multiple times on account. Police do not get tried as criminals, often get the benefit of the doubt in questionable scenarios, and paid vacations.

The Black community is tired of this shit.

And that's the simplest way to put it.

Nevermind black women getting killed/suffering from police, the housing system disenfranchising black people, the prison system exploiting the hell out of black communities, the education system failing black kids, the public and private health system failing black communities, and politicians dismantling/dis-empowering the black vote.

Anyone still wondering why the Black community is tired of this shit isn't paying attention for a reason.
 

commedieu

Banned
Oh its coming. Unfortunately its inevitable at this point. As long at white America continue to ignore and outright deny the systemic racism that permeates every level of out justice system from police enforcement to prisons. The rage and discontent will continue to grow. The eventual push back will be big, ugly and violent.

Thats the design, this has to be by design at this point. Having police murdering black people with 0 accountability will create this outcome. Unfortunately its going to be used as justification of bias, as well as the sickening police response that will be off the leash to deal with the disruptions. It wont lead to police reform, being responsible for people you kill, or simply having a trial. Much like the War on Drugs, and the % of incarceration, is by design.

Its going to be the opposite.

If I was in government, I'd want to start throwing police in jail to show the population there is justice for the population, as well as its just what is right. This hasn't happened, its still not happening. No effort was made to avoid the natural outcome of denying dignity and rights to people. History is pretty implicit when it comes to this.

People already condemn blacks for getting themselves into this situation, getting shot to death while unarmed. Imagine when the real riots start, no good in any of this.
 
Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but the only innocent person killed so far has once again been a black man at the hands of racist shit cops. Even these violent protestors still have not killed anyone, unless I am mistaken.

There is no such thing as an innocent black man he has probably done something that he hadn't been punished for.
/s
 

Cømet

Banned
Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but the only innocent person killed so far has once again been a black man at the hands of racist shit cops. Even these violent protestors still have not killed anyone, unless I am mistaken.

I was under the impression bystanders had been hurt, innoncent bystanders' homes and workplaces destroyed, If not, nothing changes. That poor chap is the spearhead and this applies to him too. He could have been a friend someday but, nope, no more, thanks to these animals. Their evil may affect the few right now, but the longer it is allowed the more it could affect.


A roundabout way of saying "what the fuck is wrong with people, why can't we all just have a laugh". It hurts me to think so many hate so many others. I live for my friends and the people I meet, what would drive a person to narrow such a fountain of opportunity?
 

Cømet

Banned
Thats the design, this has to be by design at this point. Having police murdering black people with 0 accountability will create this outcome. Unfortunately its going to be used as justification of bias, as well as the sickening police response that will be off the leash to deal with the disruptions. It wont lead to police reform, being responsible for people you kill, or simply having a trial. Much like the War on Drugs, and the % of incarceration, is by design.

Its going to be the opposite.

If I was in government, I'd want to start throwing police in jail to show the population there is justice for the population, as well as its just what is right. This hasn't happened, its still not happening. No effort was made to avoid the natural outcome of denying dignity and rights to people. History is pretty implicit when it comes to this.

People already condemn blacks for getting themselves into this situation, getting shot to death while unarmed. Imagine when the real riots start, no good in any of this.

It's truly a bad comedy. I just can't fathom how those in charge can accept their officers killing these poor people. All it says to me is that control of this kind needs to be taken away from humans as soon as possible, because they simply can't be trusted. What the fuck goes on within the head of a man that decides a life is worth less than their own because of their fucking colour????


Colour means fucking NOTHING.


I did forget one thing it means. It means US police- shit, police all over in my experience- are not worthy of trust.


What.

Ok, I tried to understand this post multiple times, but what is going on here?

I guess my understanding of the situation isn't as complete as those closer to the issue, myself being a continent away and a more infrequent news-reader (mainly because of shit like this).

Don't misunderstand me. I burn with pure white rage that any man would kill another. Getting away with? Get the fuck out of here. I'm just utterly confounded that anyone would hate another because of colour of all things. It makes no sense.

If you have specific queries, lay em on me and I'll do my best to organise my rather disorganised thoughts.
 

KingK

Member
one town elected a black woman as mayor and it caused many cops to resign.

that's what most cities should start doing.
a) rock to boat and vote.
b) vote for a democrat black woman for mayor.
c) watch the cops resign in droves.
d) replace cops to reflect actual demographics of the city/town

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/19/parma-police-resign-black-female-mayor_n_7097110.html
Lol I'm all for more black woman mayors but it's not that simple. Baltimore already has a black woman as mayor.
 

x-Lundz-x

Member
Oh, I'm not going to let you know where I draw the line. The point is, oppression of an entire group of people will produce violence. You cannot willingly allow for the existence of a system that incarcerates, injures, terrorizes, and murders a segment of the population without repercussions. I'll just leave it at that.


Tells me all I need to know about you. You don't give a shit about violence towards anyone unless it's from the police. I'm sure the Orioles fan fearing for his life has a checkbook he checks off daily with all the blacks he oppressed throughout the day and gives all his buddies high fives every time a black man dies.
 

Cømet

Banned
one town elected a black woman as mayor and it caused many cops to resign.

that's what most cities should start doing.
a) rock to boat and vote.
b) vote for a democrat black woman for mayor.
c) watch the cops resign in droves.
d) replace cops to reflect actual demographics of the city/town

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/19/parma-police-resign-black-female-mayor_n_7097110.html

Lol I'm all for more black woman mayors but it's not that simple. Baltimore already has a black woman as mayor.

I thought that whole thing was about a corrupt local government bound to be exposed by a brand new mayor? Any news on that?
 

PopeReal

Member
Tells me all I need to know about you. You don't give a shit about violence towards anyone unless it's from the police. I'm sure the Orioles fan fearing for his life has a checkbook he checks off daily with all the blacks he oppressed throughout the day and gives all his buddies high fives every time a black man dies.

Example C of why change is not coming.
 

commedieu

Banned
Tells me all I need to know about you. You don't give a shit about violence towards anyone unless it's from the police. I'm sure the Orioles fan fearing for his life has a checkbook he checks off daily with all the blacks he oppressed throughout the day and gives all his buddies high fives every time a black man dies.

I knew this was where you were coming from, with your earlier posts.

At this point, its safe to say you already have a narrative in mind. I think you want to believe this, instead of what people are actually typing. Understanding why riots happen, that they are a byproduct of oppression, isn't the same as what you're saying at all. This keeps coming up in the thread, by people who aren't allowing themselves to understand what others are saying, but will gladly make up scenarios to contort posts into the idea that anyone in this thread is supporting/condoning killing innocent people. Either you're on the side that says "protestors" (with quotes), or you're on the side that sees this is a fucked situation that is going to get worse due to the lack of progress on the issue, from the nation, as well as the government.

It shouldn't have to get to the point of rioting and chaos, over the fact that black people are killed and police have no consequences nation wide. Thats something all decent human beings should note, and demand change. Instead, we are here, arguing about things no one is saying or implying to avoid the fact that the Police department needs reform. All these words fall right at the foot of the facts, and the piles of dead bodies. You want to think people want innocent people to die? When the entire situation is about innocent people dying.

Makes little sense.

I wish a moderator could change the title of every single one of these threads to include *****NO ONE SUPPORTS INNOCENT PEOPLE DYING\RIOTS\RAPCARS*****, as we wouldn't be deluded with pages and pages of people revealing their bias, and arguing nothing.
 
Example C of why change is not coming.

Yep. Way too many examples of, "looking for a reason to mentally check out" in this thread, and nationwide.

I keep hearing about these multi-taskers. These people that are able to look at it "objectively", criticize both sides as if they have equally messed up.

And that's the thing, there's no objectivity when you said both sides are equally messing up in this situation. Or anywhere near equal. There's no objectivity in this because unless you aren't in the country, you, me, and everyone has had a hand in where we currently are.


That's just apathy in "rationality" clothing. I'd go further, but I'm not trying to get banned.
 

KingK

Member
Cømet;161722861 said:
I thought that whole thing was about a corrupt local government bound to be exposed by a brand new mayor? Any news on that?

Maybe you're thinking of Ferguson that got a brand new mayor? (Edit: nvm they got a new council, but not a new mayor)

My knowledge of Baltimore politics only extends to watching the wire two times, but i think it's safe to say that the fact that the mayor is black does not mean she's not corrupt, and even if she's honestly trying to root out corruption, i doubt that's something any mayor could do in Baltimore single handedly.
 
I don't know much about Baltimore, but why are these people not protesting around City Hall, Police Stations, and other government buildings? What benefit is there in destroying and looting local businesses and 7-Elevens? I mean, if a riot is how you want to go about doing it, why not riot at the capitol?

Not trying to condone violence against property or people. But if you as a people feel forced to use violence, then why direct it at store fronts that won't do anything but get other people who live in the neighbourhoods upset about damaged property - yet again (I think property "violence" can be used correctly in certain circumstances - against people, almost never, except in defense)

Maybe I just haven't seen the videos of people protesting or rioting around the "important" places, though, so I dunno. If so... carry on I guess. Hopefully the right people notice and hear.
 
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