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[Einchy]

Ron has the Bob Iger Seal Of Approval

And here's Dark Helmet on what this likely means in regards to the final film...

Bob Iger is too slick, man.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

This was the only Star Wars movie I was actually really excited to see and it was specifically because of Lord and Miller. People acting butthurt about a comedy movie set in the Star Wars universe make me shake my head. Star Wars should take a page from Marvel's book and allow the spinoff films to explore different genres. A thriller set in the SW universe? A bounty hunter revenge flick? That'd be fucking awesome and actually get my ass in the seats on Day 1 since I don't particularly care for the political space operas the normal movies can be.

I understand that Disney has this vision and guidelines and shit, obviously you gotta fall in line, but I made the same assumption L&M did and that was that they were hired to make a L&M movie, not to shit out just another generic Star Wars movie any other director could have made.

):

If the film was supposedly shaping up to be as comedic as we've heard, even Marvel films like Ant-Man and Guardians haven't gone that far. It also seems off-base for the character, and heavily off-script.

And THEY are doing different genres. Rogue One was more of a straight war film than any Star Wars. Han Solo is supposed to be a western heist.

And they probably WILL make that bounty hunter movie. Like, possibly even next.

 

[Arttemis]

This was the only Star Wars movie I was actually really excited to see and it was specifically because of Lord and Miller. People acting butthurt about a comedy movie set in the Star Wars universe make me shake my head. Star Wars should take a page from Marvel's book and allow the spinoff films to explore different genres. A thriller set in the SW universe? A bounty hunter revenge flick? That'd be fucking awesome and actually get my ass in the seats on Day 1 since I don't particularly care for the political space operas the normal movies can be.

I understand that Disney has this vision and guidelines and shit, obviously you gotta fall in line, but I made the same assumption L&M did and that was that they were hired to make a L&M movie, not to shit out just another generic Star Wars movie any other director could have made.

):

Oh please, "butthurt about a comedy movie set in the Star Wars universe". What a load of shit. A comedy movie sounds great. A comedy movie that portrays the character in a way other than how the lead writer who wrote ESB, RotJ, and Indiana Jones: RotLA intended ... I can see that kind of knock off shit in any unlicensed sci fi TRYING to be Star Wars.

 

[WordAssassin]

If the film was supposedly shaping up to be as comedic as we've heard, even Marvel films like Ant-Man and Guardians haven't gone that far. It also seems off-base for the character, and heavily off-script.

And THEY are doing different genres. Rogue One was more of a straight war film than any Star Wars. Han Solo is supposed to be a western heist.

And they probably WILL make that bounty hunter movie. Like, possibly even next.

I guess we'll never know how "over the line" they went unless we get concrete details about the script VS what they shot. And if you're right about them doing more genres that's fantastic. I don't really get what you're saying with your example though, it sounds like "Star Wars is straightforward Star Wars, then they did Rogue One but that was also pretty much straight Star Wars too.. they're doing Han Solo next which was gonna be a western heist movie..." (but now we're getting reports it was too screwy and they wanted someone else to make it fall in line with the Star Wars feeling).

Bounty Hunter movie on its own means nothing. It could be just another serious Star Wars movie but it follows a bounty hunter. Have they announced that it will be a different genre? Is it going to be like The Rundown, or Crank, or is it going to be like Star Wars?

Oh please, "butthurt about a comedy movie set in the Star Wars universe". What a load of shit. A comedy movie sounds great. A comedy movie that portrays the character in a way other than how the lead writer who wrote ESB, RotJ, and Indiana Jones: RotLA intended ... I can see that kind of knock off shit in any unlicensed sci fi TRYING to be Star Wars.

The site I read this story on had a comments section where two people literally said a comedy movie doesn't belong in Star Wars. I wasn't trying to single out anyone on Gaf, I haven't even read through this thread, I was commenting on the fact that there are people who are so uptight about SW that they are like repulsed by the idea of a comedy SW movie and that seems totally ridiculous to me.

Also, of all the characters in Star Wars, I'd imagine the one the most suited for a screwball comedy adventure is fucking young Han Solo. Especially if they framed it as him telling a story from his youth and embellishing it to make it sound even better than it was. To me, that sounds incredible.

I seem to remember a GameCube trailer for a Jango Fett game that had him acting totally goofy and shooting his guns like he was in an old western and people seemed to love it, I don't know what changed that made comedy like illegal in Star Wars for some.


I'd also be super interested in a horror/suspense/thriller set in the Star Wars universe. I've never really seen anything like that that I can think of but I'd be so down to see someone try.

 

[Cross-Section]

I think it's more the issue that, after more than 30 years of constant, visible Star Wars parodies, to then go and make an "official" (and technically-canon) comedy of similar tone set in that universe runs the risk of having such a film feel disingenuous.

 

[Arttemis]

I guess we'll never know how "over the line" they went unless we get concrete details about the script VS what they shot. And if you're right about them doing more genres that's fantastic. I don't really get what you're saying with your example though, it sounds like "Star Wars is straightforward Star Wars, then they did Rogue One but that was also pretty much straight Star Wars too.. they're doing Han Solo next which was gonna be a western heist movie..." (but now we're getting reports it was too screwy and they wanted someone else to make it fall in line with the Star Wars feeling).

Bounty Hunter movie on its own means nothing. It could be just another serious Star Wars movie but it follows a bounty hunter. Have they announced that it will be a different genre? Is it going to be like The Rundown, or Crank, or is it going to be like Star Wars?


The site I read this story on had a comments section where two people literally said a comedy movie doesn't belong in Star Wars. I wasn't trying to single out anyone on Gaf, I haven't even read through this thread, I was commenting on the fact that there are people who are so uptight about SW that they are like repulsed by the idea of a comedy SW movie and that seems totally ridiculous to me.

Also, of all the characters in Star Wars, I'd imagine the one the most suited for a screwball comedy adventure is fucking young Han Solo. Especially if they framed it as him telling a story from his youth and embellishing it to make it sound even better than it was. To me, that sounds incredible.

I seem to remember a GameCube trailer for a Jango Fett game that had him acting totally goofy and shooting his guns like he was in an old western and people seemed to love it, I don't know what changed that made comedy like illegal in Star Wars for some.


I'd also be super interested in a horror/suspense/thriller set in the Star Wars universe. I've never really seen anything like that that I can think of but I'd be so down to see someone try.

Okay... but you're acting like Kasdan, the writer who created most of Han Solo and is also wrote this movie, doesn't want a comedy. By all accounts, he wrote a comedy that fits into a story just as you described. The issues are rumored to be how Lord and Miller filmed that comedy script.

 

[Yukinari]

Does this mean we're finally getting Clone High back? No?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Again, my guess here is that Kasdan went out and wrote Silverado
And Lord & Miller went out and made Galaxy Quest.
And then when asked to take their Galaxy Quest and make it more Silverado, they said "wait, just trust us and let us get you our edit"
And they said "We trusted you and you made fucking Galaxy Quest. Let us into the room with you and then we'll talk."
"Nah, that's not what we're going to do."
"Then you can kick rocks."

Voila.

 

[WordAssassin]

Okay... but you're acting like Kasdan, the writer who created most of Han Solo and is also wrote this movie, doesn't want a comedy. By all accounts, he wrote a comedy that fits into a story just as you described. The issues are rumored to be how Lord and Miller filmed that comedy script.

Oh no no no I totally don't mean that, I was referring specifically to the fans I had seen saying a comedy movie had no place in Star Wars. If the writer didn't want a comedy that's one thing but people saying comedy in general has no place in Star Wars is bonkers.

But yes I actually agree with you about the script VS what Lord & Miller were doing. I'm curious as to just how far off the path they went with what they filmed VS what was written. The article I saw said that they were doing a lot of improv which I mean, that makes sense if you have seen their movies. But the article also painted the actor that plays Han as being kind of a little bitch about it if that's all it was. But if they were making big changes (again super curious as to what the continuity break was) then even though that's a movie I'd personally want to see, I totally understand the need to try and reign them in or get rid of them if they won't. As much as I'd like genre hopping SW movies, I also see the other side, and there's nothing wrong with keeping all the SW movies feeling like SW movies. If that's what Disney wants and they weren't giving it to them then, welp, parting of the ways.

I wonder if they were gonna make it so Han saying the Falcon did the Kessle Run in howevermany parsecs was a lie/embellishment? I could see that being used as a gag that would really piss a lot of people off and get Disney bent about them not sticking to the script.

 

[Tansut]

Again, my guess here is that Kasdan went out and wrote Silverado
And Lord & Miller went out and made Galaxy Quest.
And then when asked to take their Galaxy Quest and make it more Silverado, they said "wait, just trust us and let us get you our edit"
And they said "We trusted you and you made fucking Galaxy Quest. Let us into the room with you and then we'll talk."
"Nah, that's not what we're going to do."
"Then you can kick rocks."

Voila.

Probably. Still blows my mind it happened THIS close to the end of production.

 

[XAL]

Probably. Still blows my mind it happened THIS close to the end of production.

Didn't the Rogue One re-do come up later in the filmmaking timeline than this?

If I remember correctly they had to reshoot 40% of the movie or something crazy like that.

 

[Einchy]

Didn't the Rogue One re-do come up later than this?

I think the situation is different since Edwards didn't go wildly off script, and the third act was just completely re-worked, which involved going off the original script, while here Lord and Miller were just doing their own thing from the get-go.

[edit]

At least this whole situation should prove to people that LucasFilm isn't out for a quick cash grab, like a lot of people always say, since they will go to insane extremes to get the movie as great as they want.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Probably. Still blows my mind it happened THIS close to the end of production.

Looking at the big picture, how does Lucasfilm:

- Let them shoot for something like 17 weeks...
- Not know what kind of set L&M ran beforehand...
- Not let them edit their own cut this far in...

Why hire two directors with a fairly specific voice, known for running a looser set that favors improv, for a project that you want ran stricter with a pretty specific vision?

It just seems like Lucasfilm hired the wrong directors for what they actually wanted.

 

[effzee]

The problem is nobody gives a fuck about Hans backstory. L&M do comedy. Good comedy.

That was the reason to watch this, not some writer wanting to flesh out a 30 year old character with an origin story.

Why is the assumption that this "some writer" didn't have comedy in his script? By all accounts it's one of the reasons they went with L&M.

But it can also be true that L&M switched it up or went so far off the script that this "some writer" and LucasFilms decided it's changing what they had intended too much.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Probably. Still blows my mind it happened THIS close to the end of production.

Fantastic Four 2015...

Also, I kinda need a Cocoon reference in this now. Or just something like a cocoon opening up and Wilford Brimley stepping out: "It's about time". Just post-credits it.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Looking at the big picture, how does Lucasfilm:

- Let them shoot for something like 17 weeks...
- Not know what kind of set L&M ran beforehand...
- Not let them edit their own cut this far in...

Why hire two directors with a fairly specific voice, known for running a looser set that favors improv, for a project that you want ran stricter with a pretty specific vision?

It just seems like Lucasfilm hired the wrong directors for what they actually wanted.

When the lead actor and the writer say it's not working, then the directors clearly aren't making the film they said they'd make. I mean the directors are responsible for the casting of the new Solo, who's been in comedies before - if even he thinks it's too broad, that's a warning sign.

 

[WillyFive]

Massive downgrade, and huge tonal shift, but I trust Kennedy to know what she's doing.

 

[VistraNorrez]

When the lead actor and the writer say it's not working, then the directors clearly aren't making the film they said they'd make. I mean the directors are responsible for the casting of the new Solo, who's been in comedies before - if even he thinks it's too broad, that's a warning sign.

If Alden says this new set is working wonderfully and the film comes out mediocre or bad, will you still trust his opinion. Actors don't really know how their performance works in the final film. There have been plenty of times were actors have miserable experiences, or are forced to act in a way they don't want to, and it's for the betterment of the final cut. George C Scott did not like acting so broad in Dr Strangelove, but Kubrick more or less tricked him to act that way. The movie benefitted from that. And that's not an isolated incident for Kubrick.

Unless a film is a single take, a performance is cut from multiple takes across weeks or months of work. It's up to the director to know if that works right, not the actor.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

When the lead actor and the writer say it's not working, then the directors clearly aren't making the film they said they'd make. I mean the directors are responsible for the casting of the new Solo, who's been in comedies before - if even he thinks it's too broad, that's a warning sign.

We have two wildly differing rumors on the quality of the footage. The Variety rumors point to a huge conflict surrounding L&M's methods and a disagreement over the comedic tone, so I'm focusing on that part of it.

These guys have a very apparent style and comedic sensibility, and their preference for freedom and improv wasn't an industry secret. They also worked on this two years, including reworking aspects of the script with Kasdan and his son, then they filmed for 17 weeks.

Lucasfilm hired two fairly established more auteur-like directors with a very specific voice, gave them two years of freedom, but then had someone else cut their footage 75% through filming, freaked out, tried to pull a "Rogue One Special" on them, and unsurprisingly L&M didn't immediately roll-over.

If they want to have the type of control and process the MCU has, that's absolutely fine, but these weren't the directors for that, and it should have become apparent sooner than last Monday.

 

[broncobuster]

Seems this thread took over the general discussion. Some addition info from THR.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ls-behind-phil-lord-chris-miller-exit-1016619

And a specific section about how it moves forward,

But the source close to Lord and Miller acknowledges they have always worked in an improvisational style and not just to add comedic elements. "They collaborate closely with their actors and give them creative freedom that, in their experience, brings out the actors' best performances," this person says. "Lawrence Kasdan would not allow this and demanded that every line was said word for word. To appease him and the studio, Lord and Miller would do several takes exactly as written and then shoot additional takes."

Stepping in to replace directors who have been fired is not something that many filmmakers would want to do. Probably Howard is one of the few who could and would--at least, in this particular set of circumstances. Insiders say he was concerned about how Lord and Miller would react and has been emailing with them; another source says the two have been “very supportive, very elegant.” Howard arrives in London on June 26 and shooting, which began in February and was supposed to be completed in July, now will continue into the first week of September as Howard captures new material. Still, an insider says much of what Lord and Miller shot will be “very usable.”

It'll be interesting and a little sad if they end up using the the alternate takes for the finished film.

 

[Doublesith]

It seems like production was genuinely a clusterfuck, and that this was more than Kasdan throwing a hissy fit. The part about having to hire an acting coach for Alden midway through filming is troubling.

But Lord and Miller were not prepared to have Kasdan become a shadow director. With an impasse reached, Kennedy finally pulled the trigger. The next day, when the crew was told that Ron Howard would take over as director, sources say they broke into applause.

Yikes.

 

[firelogic]

If Alden says this new set is working wonderfully and the film comes out mediocre or bad, will you still trust his opinion. Actors don't really know how their performance works in the final film. There have been plenty of times were actors have miserable experiences, or are forced to act in a way they don't want to, and it's for the betterment of the final cut. George C Scott did not like acting so broad in Dr Strangelove, but Kubrick more or less tricked him to act that way. The movie benefitted from that. And that's not an isolated incident for Kubrick.

Unless a film is a single take, a performance is cut from multiple takes across weeks or months of work. It's up to the director to know if that works right, not the actor.

One recent example is Tom Hardy. He thought Fury Road was garbage while filming but publicly apologized to George Miller after he saw the final cut.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

One recent example is Tom Hardy. He thought Fury Road was garbage while filming but publicly apologized to George Miller after he saw the final cut.

That was a pretty extreme case though. Dude shot what, 400 hours? I don't think ANYONE could see the vision through that.

(seriously though, *major* props to Margaret Sixel)

But yeah, it's still a good point though.

 

[liquidtmd]

It'll be interesting and a little sad if they end up using the the alternate takes for the finished film.

We of course will never truly know, but it would be absolutely fascinating to really see what's going through Howard's mind as an experienced outsider director as he pieces together what Lord and Miller have done versus what Kasdan / Kennedy want.

I believe he will tow the line ultimately but that initial internal opinion would be my holy grail here

 

[firelogic]

That was a pretty extreme case though. Dude shot what, 400 hours? I don't think ANYONE could see the vision through that.

(seriously though, *major* props to Margaret Sixel)

But yeah, it's still a good point though.

Yeah it is an extreme example lol. Margaret Sixel is an editing savant.

 

[Jarmel]

And, not entirely satisfied with the performance that the directors were eliciting from Rules Don't Apply star Alden Ehrenreich, Lucasfilm decided to bring in an acting coach. (Hiring a coach is not unusual; hiring one that late in production is.)

Welp this is going to be interesting when all is said and done. Go through one of the biggest audition processes in history and this is the outcome...

 

[effzee]

So based on that article filming was supposed to finish in July but now will continue till September. Does that mean he is doing more than the 5 weeks of reshoots originally mentioned?

Also didn't know L&M left the Flash for this. Seeing the issues they had with such a large production, would WB even want them back?

 

[Skiptastic]

Man, I never got the love for Lord and Miller. Like LEGO Movie was outstanding.. and that was it. Their biggest claim to fame (outside of LEGO Movie) is that they can take barely an idea/story and make a good movie out of it. I mean that's fine and all.. but people gush over them like they're the second coming. Lots of directors out there are capable of making "good" movies.

I don't really care about "claim to fame". I've loved Lord & Miller since Clone High. That show was so good and funny and absurd in all the right ways. If you aren't paying attention to them, you miss their brand of comedy. And I'm not talking about "improvisational filming" that keeps getting brought up. They have a very clear style that shows in Clone High, Cloudy, LEGO and both Jump Streets (and they didn't write either Jump Street, so no, it's not just that they need to be the ones writing it). They are my favorite comedy directors and it's not even close. Comedy is tough, and they have repeatedly made good to great comedies.

I was really looking forward to this movie because of their involvement. Would I have been interested without it? Sure. But knowing their track record, I had high expectations.

Now, I'm not going to shit on Ron Howard. I am one of those weirdos who likes Willow a lot, I think he's more than simply competent (he's no Brett Ratner, ffs) and I'm sure he'll do a good job with what's out there and what's left. The film will probably be enjoyable.

But be that as it may, I regret not being able to see L&M's full vision.

 

[Erevador]

Actual footage of Ron Howard running to the set to try and save a derailed Han Solo.

Shocking video here