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[SimTourist]

Yeah lets see some shipped games from this guy that blow everyone away with their optimization first.

 

[genesisblock]

When you see what S.T.A.L.K.E.R did back from 2007

This is exactly the kind of thing why I want Ray-Tracing in video games, sadly not used to its potential instead of just making better reflections that can be ignored 99% of the time.

 

[kevboard]

This is exactly the kind of thing why I want Ray-Tracing in video games, sadly not used to its potential instead of just making better reflections that can be ignored 99% of the time.

the point of RT reflections is not to stare at them, it's to get rid of Screen Space Reflections, which have a shitload of artifacts that should just be called what they really are, graphics bugs.

the fact that YOU DO NOT NOTICE THEM is the point... if something looks pleasing, natural, inoffensive, you just accept it and don't give further notice to it (unless it's gameplay critical)

Screen space reflections on the other hand are like if developers purposefully add a graphics bug into their game, only so that they can make good looking PR screenshots at just the right angle where the Screen Space Reflections look flawless... but then you move the camera, or a character walks though the scene, and your screen is full of occlusion seams, ghosting, disappearing reflections, stuff getting reflected that shouldn't get reflected ( recent example: hold a torch in your hand in Indiana Jones while standing on something reflective) etc.

at that point, YOU DO TAKE NOTICE... at that point they stand out, distract, and just look disgusting.


RT reflections allow developers to push for more detail (which they apparently want to even if it means constant glitches right in front of your eyes) without relying on SSR.


now... I would say going back to proven solutions that look good (planar reflections, render to texture, duplicate geometry, perspective corrected cubemaps etc), and actually fully optimising them would be even better than slapping the RT bandaid on this wound that SSR created, but today's lazy ass devs won't do that.
they love SSR, SSAO and SS Shadows because most modern engines allow them to literally just click on a toggle to turn them on and forget about it... no by-hand adjustments or optimisation needed... click a button and go!

RT can do that as well, which is why I see it as the only thing that can finally save us from SSR.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

This is exactly the kind of thing why I want Ray-Tracing in video games, sadly not used to its potential instead of just making better reflections that can be ignored 99% of the time.

No RT reflections means developers have to use SSR, and I would have to be blind to ignore SSR issues. SSR can look good on some metalic parts / objects, especially on cars in racing games, but water surface, or mirrors should never use SSR. Try to face a mirror that use SSR and you will see absolutely no reflections. Try to move and reflections on the water surface fade out. Also characters moving around water will show disocclusion artifacts and shimmering. These artifacts look ugly and are extremely distracting. It's impossible to ignore these problems, unless you absolutely don't care about the graphics.

SSR arnt even cheap. On my old PC in Witcher 3 I had about 70fps with SSR on low and 28fps with SSR on high. Now on my RTX4080S, not even RT reflections tanks performance that much. Also there are games like the Resident Evil 4 remake where RT reflections are basically free (on my PC there's only 1fps difference in RE4 remake with RT reflections) while still looking better than SSR.

In RE3 they also used RT to enhance GI yet the game run crazy fast even at 4K native (130-190fps).

My comparison between SSR vs RT in the cyberpunk.

The water in cyberpunk look absolutely ugly with SSR.

And amazing with RT. There's a 25% drop in frame rate in this particular screenshot, but I also had RT shadows turned on. RT reflections alone would cost a lot less.

On current generation consoles, even RT reflections are very demanding, but on a PC with a modern RTX card, there's really no point in using SSR's.

 

[SlimySnake]

Screenspace reflections are also very expensive. On PC, CD project added a max screenspace setting that would literally cut the performance by half. And still had the same occlusion issues.

Shadows are also a very expensive setting.

Switching to RT shadows and RT reflections might actually save performance since enabling one reduces the cost for the second RT feature.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Screenspace reflections are also very expensive. On PC, CD project added a max screenspace setting that would literally cut the performance by half. And still had the same occlusion issues.

Shadows are also a very expensive setting.

Switching to RT shadows and RT reflections might actually save performance since enabling one reduces the cost for the second RT feature.

That's what I noticed in the witcher 3. SSR at high settings looked a lot better compared to SSR low, but cut performance in half on my old GTX1080, and even on my RTX4080 SSR SSR at high still tanks performance. In 1440p native I get 140fps with SSR high, and 220fps with SSR low. That's 57% relatice difference and not even RT reflections tanks that much performance on my PC.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

UE5 just makes it worse, all games look the same now, change the character model to any game you like and it will fit most of the time.

 

[evanft]

The best thing about Threat Interactive is that we've both shipped the same number of AAA games on UE5.