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[Dragoon En Regalia]

Since Camineet posted his second Thunder Force II-related thread ever quite recently, I figured we could have a definitive thread concerning the whole franchise for once (and because it's never been done). We're here to talk about Thundar Force, after all. Hold on to your butts.

—Thunder Force, while perhaps not the king-daddy franchise of amazing Japanese shooting games, represents both a very interesting Japanese soft-house (—in this case, the illustrious Technosoft&#8212, and the gradual evolution of Japanese shooters over a very long time-frame. Ever since 1983, the tail end of the "Golden Age of Gaming", Thunder Force has been a constant presence in the hearts of many nostalgic gamers and eager shooting game fans, and every one has a different preference for certain titles in the franchise. The 30th anniversary of the franchise is nigh on the horizon, after all, and what better to celebrate such a long and well-regarded series of games than a mega-thread? From the traditional arcade action of Thunder Force the original to the fan-serving Thunder Force VI, Thunder Force fans have been through a lot. Since I am one of them, I feel that I have an obligation to honor and provide NeoGAF with something more interesting than on-disc DLC complaints and PS Vita doom-and-gloom stories. Let's talk about Thunder Force. And let's list some resources:

RedParsely's series coverage of Thunder Force, interestingly-enough, starts all the way from the original, going up to every version of Thunder Force III released. A well-recommended perspective on the earlier games, I'd say.

Hardcore Gaming 101's Paul Brownlee did a broad, but excellent series coverage feature on the franchise a while back.

PARTU WON​

Thunder Force; Sharp X-1, Sharp MZ-1500, NEC PC-6001 mkII, NEC PC-8801 mkII, Fujitsu FM-7, NEC PC-9801; released 1983 on the Sharp X-1 by Technosoft, with variable release dates from 1983-4 for other versions

Screens from Sharp X-1 version of Thunder Force.

The first of the Thunder Force games has the dubious honor of being both very dated and very timely, influenced primarily by Xevious and Zaxxon, amongst other "Golden Age" Japanese shooting games. Nonetheless, it started the franchise off with an innovative take on the genre by providing free-roaming overhead shooting stages, giving the player the option to progress through a level in whatever direction desired and provided. With the ability to bomb ground targets and dogfight with pesky air-borne combatants, there's a lot of action to be found here.

Now: some footage of the original for the Sharp X-1 computer, graciously provided by someone on NicoNico Douga (link goes to NicoZon, so you can watch it outside of NND).

Stage structure for the original Thunder Force was rather unique for the time as well. Generally-speaking, each level, upon completion, led the player to a screen featuring a large section of the game's big baddy—the Dyradeizer, constructed by the malevolent ORN Empire to do battle, gain power, whatever. Destroy the portion of the big thing and you get sent to an entirely new level, with more enemy structures, bases, and enemies to shoot the shit out of. Rinse and repeat. Alongside the unique overhead stages and relatively-advanced visuals (for the time, considering how basic and clumsy old Japanese gaming computers were in the former half of the 80s), elements like the Dyradeizer made Thunder Force the original a real stand-out for its time.

PC-8801 screen from same game!

In a lot of ways, this game set the standard for future Thunder Force games very well. Both the setting and recurring opponents of the Thunder Force series were established here, continuing until Thunder Force V's change of scenario and feel. Technosoft's tradition of providing fantastic presentation and unique features also got off to a great start with this game, the first out of many obscure games they made for Japanese computers up until they began to publish for the SEGA Mega Drive. Nonetheless. other aspects found in the original soon got shafted in favor of market evolution. While Thunder Force II kept the overhead stages and maximized their design potential, the ground/air dichotomy present in the original was erased in favor of shooting everything, no bombs attached—and, in addition to overhead stages, horizontally-scrolling shooting areas were included in-between, providing a then-contemporary shooting game experience that focused on speedy action and clever level design that focused more on challenging the player's ability to move around than the player's ability to blow things up entirely. Thunder Force the original was also the only game to receive an expansion pack in the form of a map construction kit for certain platforms, allowing users to make their own levels for use in the corresponding version of the game for their platform. This, of course, was never seen in later games. And there are no special weapons to be found here, either! Thunder Force II, once more, introduced those.

Indeed, the original Thunder Force was as timely as the other Thunder Force games were. Filled to the brim with extremely-challenging levels, enemies, and technical accommodations of the time, going back and playing Thunder Force is both an ordeal for those using emulators, and a challenge for those accustomed to later Thunder Force games and more modern game design. But there's a lot to be said for the game, with its 32-straight levels, amazing digitized voiced opening (on the Sharp X-1, at least), and classic arcade-style shooting action. With none of the amazing music, amiable difficulty options, and definitely none of the series-defining weapon systems present in later installments, Thunder Force the original is the most notable black-sheep of the franchise. While later games became more refined, albeit more derivative in certain ways, this game stands out with its innovation and unique style of play.

Thunder Force II; Sharp X68000, SEGA Mega Drive; released in 1988 for X68000, 1989 for Mega Drive

Images from the original X68000 version of said game!

It's interesting to see just how much a developer's design philosophy and direction can change in just half a decade. Case in point: Thunder Force II, compared to its predecessor. By 1988, Technosoft had become a reputable, well-known Japanese PC game developer, working on games like Herzog (Eins) and Feedback for various PC platforms. However, Thunder Force had been out of commission for quite a while—somehow, somewhere, the decision was made to bring it back into the spotlight. As a result, Thunder Force II became the company's first big push into 16-bit game development, with the game being one of the initial power-pushers and representative titles for Sharp's monstrously-powerful X68000 gaming PC. And it became Technosoft's first big title for the Mega Drive a year later, when the company decided to give patronage to another up-and-coming underdog in the Nintendo-dominated Japanese gaming market. Suffice to say, Thunder Force II was the most important transitory point for both the company and the franchise, refining the original's overhead stages while introducing more-contemporary side-scrolling stages inspired by R-Type. And with the end result being augmented by stellar sound and music, brought to life by great pixel art and impressive hardware tricks, it's also a real representative of an exciting time in video gaming.

Here! Have some footage of the Sharp X68000 version, the original version and all.

Thunder Force II, upon release, was already quite more accomplished than its immediate predecessor. With more unique stage designs and visuals, an actual soundtrack and decent sound effects, and a more refined series of challenges and audiovisual polish, the game was much more successful than the original both due to the improvements found within and to the changing state of the Japanese gaming market. Surprisingly, though, Thunder Force II's level of challenge isn't that far below that of the original's, starting at a high difficulty and gradually increasing in intensity and rigor of play. The Mega Drive version, by contrast, had the same level of difficulty progression, but started out much easier than the original version did. Nonetheless, it was the Mega Drive version that propelled Technosoft to the forefront of third-party publishing for the Mega Drive overseas, and its financial success prompted the company to work exclusively on Mega Drive-based projects and reap the rewards of consumer loyalty. Thunder Force II would be Technosoft's first and last game for the all-powerful Japanese PC.

Mega Drive-version screenie.

Everything in Thunder Force II just worked. The overheard stages were more polished, unique, and stand-out than ever. From the very start of the game, with its notable voice-over intro and inklings of digitized voice samples throughout ("Shit!" being said upon losing a shield or life in-game), the game oozes with quality and care unlike the majority of Japanese PC games made around the same time. Importantly, the game added power-up weapons and the recognizable CLAW satellites to the player's arsenal, providing new ways to play through levels and new tactics to be used at the player's behest. Though the player could switch between different weapons at will, it was easy enough to lose them all if the player lost even one life in-game. Osamu Tsujikawa's excellent art also features prominently throughout, from the X68000-exclusive pre-game intro to the numerous maps and graphics found throughout the course of the game. And let's not forget about Tomomi Ohtani's harmonically-complex, hard-rock super-soundtrack driving the catharsis and pace of battle all the way to the end of the game! Even though the game is still considered unorthodox by many fans of the series, and by many shooting game fans in general, it feels more accommodating and modern than the original Thunder Force feels today. Keeping this in mind, it's hard not to see Thunder Force II as a very successful sequel to an already-great foundation.

Thunder Force III; SEGA Mega Drive; released 1990

Representing the further consolidation and transformation of the franchise from a more arcade-focused set of experiences to something more accessible to the average console gamer, Thunder Force III came out a year following TFII to much fanfare, as seen in previews from magazines like Mean Machines and EGM at the time. With it came many changes small and large—the most important change, however, was the exclusion of overhead stages entirely, with the focus now being placed on side-scrolling stages, with a new player-chosen stage structuring system that stayed with the games all the way through to Thunder Force VI. Also returning are the special armaments and CLAWs from TFII, now with new rules defining their usage (the most notable being that the player will only lose one weapon and all the CLAWs upon losing a single life on the default difficulty level, though not when playing on others). All of these additions and reductions made Thunder Force III more attractive to new players than any of its precursors, and an aging population of avid gamers overseas vied for more of the shooting action themselves. Today, Thunder Force III marks the high point for the franchise financially and in the media, with a lot of players avidly remembering and mentioning the game above all other installments in the same franchise. And, of course, there's a lot of myth and grandeur revolving around this game, whether people are talking about the heavy-metal soundtrack or the jaw-dropping visuals which, at the time, were impressive to both Nintendo and SEGA players alike (—no surprise, given Technosoft's technical excellence at the time was hard to match).

To be honest: I actually consider this game, alongside Thunder Force V, to be one of three low points in the history of the franchise. While it's very well-polished and designed overall—and while I love the ability to choose which stage to clear first, among other things—it's rather underwhelming and very easy to complete, especially compared to its immediate predecessor. And while the game plays fast, it doesn't play that much faster or slower than Thunder Force II either, which makes me pine for the mixed usage of overhead and side-scrolling stages ever-more. While the visuals are even better than TFII's (at least if we're comparing the MD versions of both games), the soundtrack is also weaker due to the divide in quality between newcomer Toshiharu Yamanishi's stage music and Tomomi Ohtani's impressive boss anthems. While Venus Fire is really fucking awesome to listen to no matter what, the majority of Toshiharu's tracks sound weak and lack depth compared to what Tomomi put out. Oh well—after all, Toshiharu quickly becomes the best composer and arranger ever known in Thunder Force history, going by his work on Thunder Force IV a couple of years later. Overall, TFIII felt rather weak compared to what had come before. Nevertheless, a lot of veteran gamers got their start with this game, and their love for it is something I'll always have trouble understanding on an intimate level.

TO BE CONTINUED IN PARTU TU

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

PARTU TU​

Thunder Force IV; SEGA Mega Drive; released 1992, 1994 in North America

In a lot of ways, Thunder Force IV represents the end of an era for Technosoft. It was the last game they produced for SEGA's stalwart console, all the way back in 1992, before they moved onward to do arcade games and, eventually, return to console gaming with releases for the PlayStation and SEGA's own Saturn. Before Thunder Force V, and right before games like Hyper Duel and Blast Wind were produced (more on that later), there was Thunder Force IV, an absolutely stunning shooting game that people fondly remember to this day. Due to its late release in North America and relatively-low profile compared to its immediate predecessor, the game isn't as well-remembered as I would like to think. To me, though, Thunder Force IV is the TF game to remember, mainly because it takes everything that's great about Thunder Force III to a logical conclusion, to the most notable of extremes possible. So important was this game to Technosoft that, ever since, the company tried endlessly to recapture and rekindle the same interest that gamers had in Thunder Force throughout all of their new IPs and new Thunder Force installments. And they never really got the chance, unfortunately.

Now for some old, old uploaded footage of the first level, Strite—ON MANIAC MOOOOOOOODE!

New additions to the weapon system allowed some more leniency with how to handle weapon loss (at all times, generally-speaking, you can only lose one weapon every time you lose a life), and the weapon selection was as awesome and versatile as ever. Aside from being able to fire forwards and backwards at will, though, the player was now able to scroll up and down a massive screen area, taking advantage of the smooth parallax visuals for maximum effect (and to allow for more kinds of enemy attacks, of course). This all ties into the immaculate technical proficiency with which Technosoft programmed the game, allowing for all sorts of incredible technical feats. The only real downside being an occasionally-erratic frame-rate, TFIV was a real showcase for what the platform was truly capable of, with all of the best parts of the Mega Drive's hardware capabilities being showered upon the player's eye like a series of cascading waterfalls. From the jagged peaks of Strite, to the faux city night-life of the Air Raid, to the oppressive center of the ORN Empire's super-duper mega-base—yes, this game has amazing variety in stage design, sheer insanity, and huuuuuge boss encounters. Let's not forget that, alongside Thunder Force II's two versions and the original Thunder Force, that the game offers plenty of challenge and polish!

This game also happens to be the gloomiest, most cynical of Thunder Force games by way of its fatalistic plot and scenario, and by the very nature of its soundtrack and visuals. Though there are heroic moments here and there, the same can be said for the many seemingly-hopeless and utterly-ruthless escapades within. As far as I'm concerned, Thunder Force IV's soundtrack has the best mix of awesome melodic rockers and driving, oppressive interludes known to the franchise on the whole. Toshiharu Yamanishi went from making cheering, jeering hard-rock to producing a whole mix of distorted, baroque heavy metal and fusion that simply blows me away every time I listen. In Tomomi Ohtani's place comes in Takeshi Yoshida, with an incredible bunch of heavy-metal boss anthems and stage themes. Et cetera et cetera, the soundtrack is without my favorite amongst the Thunder Force games, only matched by Thunder Force II's and Herzog Zwei's amazing musical scores. You know what really sucks, though? Toshiharu himself soon left to co-found Gust in 1993, well before the Atelier games and only a moment's notice after he had just made one of the greatest gaming soundtracks ever known. More on the music later.

Thunder Force V; SEGA Saturn, Sony PlayStation; released 1997

Like the five years in-between the original Thunder Force and Thunder Force II, the gulf between Thunder Force IV and its inevitable sequel was quite sizable. Two new unique shooting games had already been released to decent success, amongst a bunch of other new IPs and expansions that Technosoft had invested in. Nevertheless, the heyday of the company was slowly creeping away, and 1997's Thunder Force V truly marked the end of the company's long history of fantastic shooting game heritage with its SEGA Saturn release (soon followed up by Working Design's own PlayStation release overseas). This Thunder Force was different, with more theatrics, sneak-in references to past Thunder Force games, and new music from then-musician Hyakutaro Tsukumo who, ironically enough, became the most prolific composer at the company until its death. After Thunder Force V—rather, after many interesting but ultimately hopeless attempts to break into the JRPG market on the PlayStation—Technosoft got bought and absorbed by a pachinko company, never to be seen again. Even worse was the implication that Technosoft was in the middle of developing a 6th Thunder Force game, something to be revisited later.

Unfortunately, though, Thunder Force V lacked the challenge, excitement, and polish of previous games in many areas, making for my least favorite entry after Thunder Force VI. The music, while more than competent, felt like it belonged to a different shooting game altogether; the weapons weren't as interesting and well-implemented, now often being used to clear the screen of opponents at a moment's notice, much unlike the risk-reward versatility of weapons in previous installments; and the visuals, though very impressive for the time on both platforms, were tame and uninteresting compared to the old pixel art that a lot of people remember Thunder Force for. Time were changing for the industry, and the same went for a weakening Technosoft, who put out a rather sub-par effort in the end. I'd dare say that more effort went into the grandiose plot and CG cutscenes than into making a more-than-competent game, which wouldn't be surprising given the contemporary urge to make games more like movies and less interactive. Thunder Force V feels both like an ode to the past, a conformation with the present, and a foreboding precedent for the future. When I see a lot of Japanese doujin musicians take lessons from Hyakutaro's music, for example, I can't help but think how much better Toshiharu could have done the job.

Footage from the PSX version of Thunder Force V. I hope you enjoy it.

Thunder Force VI; Sony PlayStation 2; released 2008 in Japan

—Coming back from the dead, now are we? The story goes like this: Tez Okada, creator of Segagaga and a total shooting game nerd, decided to make a new Thunder Force revival game, a true Thunder Force VI in the vein of what Technosoft was supposedly developing at the time (but never got released). Eventually, with a rag-tag team of shooting game fan developers, and more than a few famous Japanese musicians, they set out to release their new vision of Thunder Force VI in 2008, well after Segagaga had famously included a shooting game section right at the end of the game, with the player shooting the shit to a brand new track by Toshiharu Yamanishi (very good one, too). Here on NeoGAF, even, the news was well-covered. So what did NeoGAF really think of it?

—We didn't like it that much, actually. As it turns out, Thunder Force VI promised a lot and failed to deliver, providing a bare-bones product with curious development choices that left the experience lacking and expectations decimated. For starters: they didn't bring back Hyakutaro Tsukumo or, for that matter, any of the old Technosoft members who had the old games so great. The new music wasn't anything like the good 'ol synth rock known to fans of the franchise, nor the heavy metal—with TAMAYO doing much of the music, anyway, it sounded like a rejected Raystorm soundtrack! Nor was any of the polish and reckless challenge present either, making the game feel like a doujin-developed version of Thunder Force V. Not good. And, to top it all off: the game simply looks terrible from a technical point of view. None of the technical excellence from every other game in the franchise here, not at all~. That the franchise had to revive itself on a whimper, even with great enthusiasm from the staff making it, is a genuinely-sad predicament for Thunder Force fans, who were very excited at the prospect of an all-new, all old-school Thunder Force game. I know I was disappointed. Greatly.

But don't worry: Partu Suree has all the cool stuff in it, coming up!

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

PARTU SUREE (for music and spin-offs)

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Awesome OP! Will be reading this over coffee tonight!

 

[JustAnotherOtaku]

Looking forward to reading through this later Love the series, Can't decide whether III or IV is my favourite though. Was also really impressed with VI when it came out a few years back.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Thanks guys. I didn't think I could possibly survive Space Jesus. But such is the Steel of Destiny!

Partu Tu coming sometime today.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Well, I love Thunder Force V (Saturn version, naturally.) Thunder Farce VI (not a typo) was an atrocity, however.

I have Thunder Force IV kicking around here somewhere, but I've never actually played it. I'm well aware that this makes me a bad person.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Really, a fantastic series of shooters that unfortunately has died off.

I only came to know it when the Genesis launched in '89 and I bought TF II along with other launch titles (and not too much later, Technosoft's greatest game, HZ). Didn't care for the overheard areas of TF II, but thanks to herzogzwei1989's thread, I see that it was originally designed to show more of the playing field in the original computer version, eliminating the annoying method of back and forth shooting when attacking the land bases in the Gen/MD version. Still, it wasn't something I'd been blown away by...until I hit the first sidescrolling stage and, through my headphones plugged into that wonderful stereo audio jack, I heard this tune, Knights of Legend, and it hooked me long enough to persevere and eventually finish it. While it doesn't hold up to the rest of the series' soundtracks and gameplay, it was one hell of a great impression on then-next-gen console games.

TF III came around the time the Genesis was seeing some decent to very nice arcade shooter conversions as well as original stuff for MD/Gen, like Sky Shark, Atomic Robo Kid, Insector-X, Target Earth (ASL1) and Whip Rush. When TF III released, I bought it immediately. The visuals, the music, the incredible polish for an original home shooter and it was all sidescrolling, too! Really, though, the thing that makes me love this series was the music...ALL of TF III (and HZ), especially. Might be my favorite original non-arcade shmup ever. Hell, I even went through the trouble of getting a getting the right cables so I could directly record music in every sound test mode from every game I ever loved hearing the music to and had a decent library of cassette tapes dedicated to the best Genny, SNES, NES, and PC-E chiptunes in a nice rack I made in a middle school woodworking class years earlier. TF III was one of the very first I made a full record of and listened to it until the tape was stretched and the music noticeably warbled. Was blown away by how poor Thunder Spirits on the SNES fared...was expecting a definitive version of that classic soundtrack.

TF IV was fun and fucking hard compared to the III, and while it had killer tunes and better visuals and more refined gameplay, it wasn't ever as much fun and not nearly as absorbing as III. Mostly, the thing that drove me to finish in TF III wasn't quite as good here, and that's the music. It just lost enough of that heroic futuristic synth rock sound from the third in exchange for a more crunchy metal sound and it took me a much longer time to finish than the other two.

TF V is better than TF II, but I never liked the decision Technosoft made in going 2.5-D on Saturn...that machine was built to do an incredible 2D TF V. Still, good music and gameplay, but didn't hold me the way the older games did.

 

[Gravijah]

mmm good music

love this series

 

[The Boat]

Fantastic job, keep it up.

 

[SavoryCade]

Definitely one of my most favorite shump-series. Subscribing to this thread.

Is Hyper Dual considered a spin-off? Gameplay always felt similar to me despite the ship transforming into a robot.

 

[MurkyZebra2417]

Thunder Force IV is still my favorite shmup ever. So much awesomeness.

Nice OP, will read when you finished all 3 Parts (I hate cliffhangers )

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Definitely one of my most favorite shump-series. Subscribing to this thread.

Is Hyper Dual considered a spin-off? Gameplay always felt similar to me despite the ship transforming into a robot.

Nah. As far as I know, Hyper Duel is its own thing. Like Blast Wind.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I'll cover Hyper Duel and Blast Wind anyway, because they led up to Thunder Force V in a number of ways. And they introduced new blood into the average Technosoft shooting game anyway, so...

Updating Partu Tu right now, guys.

 

[BuckRobotron]

TF is of course great, generally easy to dig. Always liked Blast Wind too, though sometimes I'd think it was just me enjoying something more obscure than TF. But no, I genuinely liked it.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

And my part for today is done. Suffice to say, I don't like to get much done on a headache, which I seem to get every fucking day.

 

[vireland]

Tecnosoft was really out in the boondocks in a place called Sasebo. About a two hour bus ride to get to them from Nagasaki - no plane service. I visited them once and really liked them, but even around TF V time, it was clear they were having problems.

Anyway, I will never forget the trip to their office and back. Beautiful countryside, winding road on a bus, with a bus stop closest to their office that was just a sign in the middle of nowhere that had a little roadside stand that sold snacks next to it. In the meeting they offered us refreshments, and one of them was a yogurt/juice combination that looked nasty - I took the coffee drink, but the translator took the yogurt/juice thing. It was her undoing. On the winding road back to the airport and then the flight back to Tokyo - she was sick the whole way. Everyone moved away over the course of two hours on the 1/3 full bus as she yakked up the place in the plastic bag I (very fortunately) got with my purchase at the roadside stand while we waited for the bus back. It was unpleasant for everyone.

At that meeting we worked out the licensing of Hyper Duel + Blast Wind + TF Gold Pack that we were to release on Saturn as a single shooter pack. I unfortunately had to cancel it at the E3 where Bernie and co screwed us and Saturn over. Tecnosoft folded not too long after.

 

[Nobodyspatzy]

I fondly remember TF2 as one of the most played shmups I had on the Genny. I recall getting 3 very early on...but after a bit, the game itself crashed or something, and never worked again...=/

Years later, picked it up while Game Crazy had a fire sale of old games. Along with an unlabeled copy of TF5 from Saturn! Never played four, but interested to see how that one went!

Anyway...watching this thread =)

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Tecnosoft was really out in the boondocks in a place called Sasebo. About a two hour bus ride to get to them from Nagasaki - no plane service. I visited them once and really liked them, but even around TF V time, it was clear they were having problems.

Anyway, I will never forget the trip to their office and back. Beautiful countryside, winding road on a bus, with a bus stop closest to their office that was just a sign in the middle of nowhere that had a little roadside stand that sold snacks next to it. In the meeting they offered us refreshments, and one of them was a yogurt/juice combination that looked nasty - I took the coffee drink, but the translator took the yogurt/juice thing. It was her undoing. On the winding road back to the airport and then the flight back to Tokyo - she was sick the whole way. Everyone moved away over the course of two hours on the 1/3 full bus as she yakked up the place in the plastic bag I (very fortunately) got with my purchase at the roadside stand while we waited for the bus back. It was unpleasant for everyone.

At that meeting we worked out the licensing of Hyper Duel + Blast Wind + TF Gold Pack that we were to release on Saturn as a single shooter pack. I unfortunately had to cancel it at the E3 where Bernie and co screwed us and Saturn over. Tecnosoft folded not too long after.

Wow. I feel for the translator, and I feel for you when Bernie pulled the plug on Saturn JRPGs. That pack could have been simply amazing for Saturn owners in the States!

—What kinds of problems were happening at Technosoft back around the time you visited for business? Financial problems most likely, but you'd know more than anyone else here.

Partu Suree is going to come out tomorrow, most likely, but I have school tomorrow too.

 

[vireland]

Wow. I feel for the translator, and I feel for you when Bernie pulled the plug on Saturn JRPGs. That pack could have been simply amazing for Saturn owners in the States!

—What kinds of problems were happening at Technosoft back around the time you visited for business? Financial problems most likely, but you'd know more than anyone else here.

Partu Suree is going to come out tomorrow, most likely, but I have school tomorrow too.

It just didn't seem like they had a lot going on development-wise when we visited. They were pinning their company (it seemed like to me) on a point n click adventure game (I do not remember the name of) at a time when those kinds of games were not doing well at all. I played it for a bit at the president's insistence, but wasn't too impressed. If it was a straight-up RPG, it would probably have gone differently.

Also, the office picture on their website was hilariously photoshopped compared to the actual office. It was nowhere near as large or modern as the photo.

Anyway, great company, nice staff, great spirit. I was sad to see them go.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I'm assuming they placed their bets on a game called Neorude, then. Having seen a lot of footage from the first game on NicoNicoDouga, I can safely say it was quite unique: a point-and-click adventure game with stat-heavy, JRPG-like elements. The kind of unique, Western-styled game you'd expect from a company as interesting and groundbreaking as Technosoft. And that's probably what led to their downfall: they were trying to sell something predominantly-Western in a complacent Japanese console market, which they had entered originally to support SEGA with early third-party support on the Mega Drive. So, instead of making the game into a PC-borne effort, they just had to put it on the PlayStation—a bad idea considering it meant extra money had to be spent on a mouse peripheral, and that it wasn't the kind of game most Japanese gamers wanted to play. They made a sequel and a gaiden game of sorts with the same IP, and then they just dwindled off into obscurity when all of that bombed.

One of the things I'm planning to do later is interview the former Technosoft sound team and gather up their stories at the company and beyond, so that we can get a more intimate illustration of how the company operated and their design philosophy and all. Technosoft seemed very unique at the time.

 

[Fularu]

ThunderForce is my favorite shooting series *ever*

I still play them all at least once a year (on maniac, no less!)

Actually, Megadrive Shmups time

 

[ctrayne]

.

 

[Fularu]

Oh, sweet TF5. How I love thee.

I honestly disliked TFV, but at least the Saturn version was superior.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Glad you guys are enjoying the flight. If I feel like it, later, I'll make dedicated threads for the Herzog games and Technosoft as a whole. Hopefully, at least, they won't have to deal with any competition on the front page from Space Jesus.

 

[Pimpbaa]

TFIV along with Shinobi 3 were my favorites late in the Genesis' life. Really pushed the Genesis hardware both in terms of graphics and sound.

 

[Mindlog]

ThunderForce is my favorite shooting series *ever*

I still play them all at least once a year (on maniac, no less!)

Actually, Megadrive Shmups time

http://i.imgur.com/6i1r1l.jpg

Outstanding.

I probably still have my copy of Lightening Force in a box somewhere. I originally bought it because it was on sale and the box looked cool. The young me learned a valuable lesson. You can judge a game by its awesome cover.

 

[Genesis Knight]

When I was a little kid I'd just got a Genesis and was at a garage sale and I saw Lightening Force in a box of Sega games along with the Terminator light gun game and stuff. The guy was asking like $15 for Lightning Force but my Mom wouldn't let me spend that much on a video game. The guy saw my face fall when she said no; he looked at me and winked, saying "You look like you need that one." He let me have it for $5, CIB.

It was the first shmup I ever played. Blew my mind.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Will you be covering Gate/Lords of Thunder? I remember hearing they were made by ex-Technosoft staff that Hudson lured away, who then went on to found CAProduction.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I knew about CAProduction, actually—they did Bulk Slash on the Saturn, IIRC—but this is Thunder Force/Technosoft only. Right now, I'm not too certain on how much of the Hudson Thunder games were done by ex-Technosoft employees, so I'm not sure if I coud be okay covering under the Thunder Force umbrella.

 

[To Far Away Times]

I love this series!

Thunderforce III is one of my all time favorite games. It's fast paced, aggressive, and has amazing stage layouts and music.

I bought a copy of "Lightening Force" (Thunderforce IV) not too long ago. It's a pretty good game even though I don't like the huge vertical play field, and boss fights sometimes drag on too long without much variation, but it's still a nice entry in the series.

I think Thunderforce V is a solid entry, not spectacular, but probably better than it's usually given credit for.

Thunderforce VI feels like a retread of other, better entries in the series.

 

[wondermega]

original stuff for MD/Gen, like Sky Shark, Atomic Robo Kid, Insector-X, Target Earth (ASL1) and Whip Rush.

I wish someone would make a comprehensive thread covering the best (and worst) of those shmups from the oldschool days! Musha, Gaiares, etc. Would do it myself, but y'know

....At that meeting we worked out the licensing of Hyper Duel + Blast Wind + TF Gold Pack that we were to release on Saturn as a single shooter pack. I unfortunately had to cancel it at the E3 where Bernie and co screwed us and Saturn over. Tecnosoft folded not too long after.

As far as I am concerned, Victor Ireland is sort of the Henry Rollins of oldschool game publishing stories. Would love to someday read your in-depth anecdotes of what went on behind-the-scenes back in the old heydays!

Glad you guys are enjoying the flight. If I feel like it, later, I'll make dedicated threads for the Herzog games and Technosoft as a whole. Hopefully, at least, they won't have to deal with any competition on the front page from Space Jesus.

HZ was (narrowly) my favorite game in the system. An OT of that is a must-read for me!

Outstanding.
I probably still have my copy of Lightening Force in a box somewhere. I originally bought it because it was on sale and the box looked cool. The young me learned a valuable lesson. You can judge a game by its awesome cover.

I remember being very disappointed by TFIV in the packaging it arrived in - everything about it was (relatively) offensive to me. I know it sounds ludicrous to say, but the cover art, the font, the horrible new name which was mispelled, etc - as for the game itself, I think it came out too late in the Genesis' lifespan for me to be enthralled. I really didn't like the too-high playfield and the overall "raw, rough around the edge" feeling of the game's general presentation compared to the slick polish of part 3. I'll still give it a proper workthrough someday!

As for the PS2 entry, I was just psyched to see it even release at all! It certainly didn't feel like proper canon, but I enjoyed it very much for what it was, an homage to the past (even if not very groundbreaking) which still had some very cool moments. No regrets.

Thanks for posting this great thread!

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Thunder Force IV has just as much polish as TFIII, even if the direction of the game is decidedly more climactic and oppressive than the latter.

My pleasure to bring you this thread, WM.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Thunder Force III is my favorite game in the series. I was awe-struck by the lava level, Gorgon.

 

[twentytwo22]

Awesome OP, great read. I'll definitely be in the minority, but my favorite is V, even though I know it definitely isn't the best in the series. It was the first one that I put considerable time into, and I played it at a time that I was just discovering how great shooters (and all the different types of games/scoring/etc) were. I think the music, in particular, is what made me like this game as much as I did/do.

 

[Teknoman]

Definitely subscribing. I need to go back and finish some of the older Thunder Force games...but I still think Thunder Force V has some really great boss themes.

Also Hyper Duel needs a digital rerelease.

Awesome OP, great read. I'll definitely be in the minority, but my favorite is V, even though I know it definitely isn't the best in the series. It was the first one that I put considerable time into, and I played it at a time that I was just discovering how great shooters (and all the different types of games/scoring/etc) were. I think the music, in particular, is what made me like this game as much as I did/do.

100% agree. Soundtrack and boss design are how shoot em ups grab my attention. More shoot em ups need voiced boss intros with random stats on the screen.

 

[Fularu]

I wish someone would make a comprehensive thread covering the best (and worst) of those shmups from the oldschool days! Musha, Gaiares, etc. Would do it myself, but y'know

To be honest, http://www.shmups.com/ has it all covered.

Still, on the 16 bits front, the shmups medal goes to the PCE, even if my all time favorties are on the Megadrive

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Shmups is pretty outdated as a website, though. The forum's the only part of the site that really has any activity anymore. And the site itself isn't all that comprehensive!

 

[Fularu]

Shmups is pretty outdated as a website, though. The forum's the only part of the site that really has any activity anymore. And the site itself isn't all that comprehensive!

True, but it's not like there are still some undiscovered 16bits gems.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

All the lists in the world can't make up for low-quality "reviews" and "features". I have no pity.

 

[Victrix]

A friend of mine used to mail (vhs!) videos of shooters back and forth with his brother who lived outside the states to stay in touch.

One fine morning, after trying and failing for months to beat TF4 on hard with a 1CC finish, he had finally given up and sat down to just record a playthrough for his brother to show off the game he had been raving about for some time.

Naturally, that was the game he 1CC'd it.

I can still hear the music without even youtubing it...

...

Yep, that's it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VzLxWBho-8

Listen to that power ass rock, the genesis thumping its tiny little synthesized heart out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTQIiIKummw

The degree of \m/ possessed by TF4 is hard to express.

I dearly wish that we'll see a revival of atmospheric 2d shooters, Cave and some other companies are doing awesome stuff with manic shooters, but I think we lost something along the way, Thunderforce, Axelay, RType, and a lot of others from that generation have yet to be recreated in any meaningful form.

 

[Fularu]

I dearly wish that we'll see a revival of atmospheric 2d shooters, Cave and some other companies are doing awesome stuff with manic shooters, but I think we lost something along the way, Thunderforce, Axelay, RType, and a lot of others from that generation have yet to be recreated in any meaningful form.

Shmups prety much dug themselves in a Bullet Hell mode and can't seem to find a way to get out of it.

This is probably why I still play my PCE/MD/Sat shooters and barely (if ever) touch my current gen ones

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Badass story of yours, Vic

Spoiler

trix

.

 

[Victrix]

One thing that really, really sucks about the situation is that without a core of gamers for whom those games were the goddamn bomb, it's exceedingly unlikely that we'll see a revival, because it takes the kids of yesteryear becoming the designers of today to remake what was awesome then as even more awesome today.

The core of those shooters (nail biting tension, incredible atmosphere, music, stage and enemy design) are almost gameplay independant, but there aren't many other genres that can pull off balls to the wall action and contemplative periods of quiet as a constant ebb and flow, the entire way through the experience.

They were never as popular in the west to begin with, and I'm not even sure they're popular in japan anymore outside a really hardcore niche, and that niche is being served by games that are gameplay wise miles away from the atmospheric 2d shooters, and stylistically... not even on the same planet. Pink Sweets vs R Type? Yeahhhhhhhhhhh. Death Smiles or Mushi vs TF or Axelay?

The closest we've come recently that I know of is Jamestown (which is great), but even that mirrors the Cave style of gameplay.

I know that the europeans were slightly more enamored of the RType style, as a few 2d games (of... varying quality) came out of there, even within the last ten years.

But I don't know that there are many fans out there who know what exploring Xexex was like for the first time. Metal Black? Darius?

At least we got Einhander and RType Final before the end I guess...

Whatever. This is turning into a pointless nostalgia rant, the gist that bums me out is that without anyone making awesome games in that vein, we're not going to see more of them down the line.

I'm also not saying they were all stunning gameplay wise - they were not, even at the time, not universally. Many shooters were made simply because they fit in well with the console limitations of the time, and as we've progressed technologically, they've become obsoleted in many ways.

But for my money, you show me the spiritual successor to those games in feel and I'll be lining up.

(Dear Japan: Less creepy lolita shit, more incredible space fighter designs and all consuming galactic evils)

 

[vireland]

As far as I am concerned, Victor Ireland is sort of the Henry Rollins of oldschool game publishing stories. Would love to someday read your in-depth anecdotes of what went on behind-the-scenes back in the old heydays!

I'm still not sure some of them can be told in public if I want to keep doing games since principals are still in the industry, but the stories you haven't heard plumb the highs and lows of the human condition. There are some really messed-up people and situations in the game industry - at the highest levels.

Of course, there are plenty that can be told, I just have to have something said to trigger the memory.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Tell us about Hayao Nakayama.

—Kidding. But it's up to you to be the storyteller, and I won't pressure you. That would make me look bad, and maybe you too if you said something abrasive, intentional or not.

 

[EXMaster]

I wrote that hg101 article in the OP several years ago while I was bored in college; it reminds me of that time. Believe I did one for Hyper Duel as well.

I'm a lurker by nature, but I wanted to say this thread was nice to see and comb through during downtime at work. Funny thing is I didn't really pay attention to the TF series until a friend of mine got me to try out Thunder Force V on the Playstation after talking it up. As I went back and played the older games later, I eventually became fascinated with the series, and finding information about it along with Tecnosoft in general. TFIV is clearly the best overall, in terms of gameplay, and design. Also in terms of music, though my favorite TF tracks of the series would be "Hunger Made Them Desperate" from TFIII and "Rising Blue Lighting" from TFV.

At that meeting we worked out the licensing of Hyper Duel + Blast Wind + TF Gold Pack that we were to release on Saturn as a single shooter pack. I unfortunately had to cancel it at the E3 where Bernie and co screwed us and Saturn over. Tecnosoft folded not too long after.

Would be nice if Blast Wind and Hyper Duel could get rereleased on some digital download service since they so rare and expensive now. Know it's probably not feasible due to rights/lack of interest/etc. There been a disturbing lack of Thunder Force games on the classic download channels on the whole.

(Dear Japan: Less creepy lolita shit, more incredible space fighter designs and all consuming galactic evils)

You should check out Strania if you haven't already. I'm definitely with you on your longing for traditional style shooters since I prefer them as well (not to say the manic ones are bad), and Strania was designed intentionally with that approach in mind. I don't think it did that well or got a lot of attention, but it was refreshing to play it and having it there to break up the usual continuous wave of bullet curtain style games. Eschatos is also a good one even though it's still sort of maniacy.

 

[vireland]

Would be nice if Blast Wind and Hyper Duel could get rereleased on some digital download service since they so rare and expensive now. Know it's probably not feasible due to rights/lack of interest/etc. There been a disturbing lack of Thunder Force games on the classic download channels on the whole.

The absence is pretty much an issue of the "Where are the rights?" game for Tecnosoft. I haven't been able to nail it down conclusively, nor have the people I'm working with in Japan. Shooters are tough to begin with because they just don't make money - at least not very much.

Despite being a huge fan of the genre and bringing over a number of them to try to grow the fanbase in the US, all of them lost money. With digital it helps, but then it becomes an issue of opportunity cost with all the possibilities of other games that interest me, and I think others with similar interests.

(Put me in the anti-bullet hell/anti-loli shooter camp, too. I much prefer something awesomely atmospheric like Ghost Warrior Spriggan, Winds of Thunder, etc.)

 

[adversesolutions]

Mamoru Furukawa, who is a Thunderforce veteran and was the lead designer behind Hyper Duel, is still actively making shooters.

He programmed Ibara: Black Label, which is a beautiful but very rare variation on Shinobu Yagawa's Ibara.

He's also the director for CAVE's iPhone ports, and has done a lot of the planning for the iPhone modes.

 

[kyubajin]

I have TF V for Saturn and have been trying to get the TF Gold Pack 2 at a decent price for ages. Still TF IV's music is just the best thing ever, dat Evil Destroyer.