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TITANFALL 2 |OT| Don't Misgender Tone.

deburo

Neo Member
Just posting my thoughts on the game since I don't think i've done it comprehensively since TF2 came out.

As with many people, I echo the thoughts that the biggest letdown of TF2 is the map selection. I hope the DLC maps will be better, or chances are I'll play LTS exclusively until the sequel comes out. The biggest offenders, of course, are Complex and Crash Site. Complex being a tad bit worse since it's not even exciting in LTS.

I played a lot of TF1 on Xbox, up to Gen10 and beyond, got the Diamond chip. At first I tried various modes, but I quickly settled on CTF when I got a hold of the game. That's why to me TF2 is a big letdown, at least concerning CTF. Barely anyone plays CTF, there's few good maps to play the mode on, and they added a 3s wait which bums me out. Many times, my teammates will be complete newbies, and if I can't even get the satisfaction of last-minute returns when competing against a better team, then it's not even worth trying.

I however think the Titan combat/fighting is much more enjoyable than TF1's. That's the reason LTS replaced CTF as the main mode for me in TF2. Playing as Ion, I constantly get in the top players with damage delt. In fact, with a bit of good team composition and play, every titan is viable and it's just a lot of fun all around.

Concerning titan bilance, Tone's core was definitely a problem at launch, but I can't say Tone is still annoying in its current state. If it needs a nerf, it really doesn't need a big one. As for legion, I don't have much to say. What was even the nerf it got?

Concerning pilot play, I find it enjoyable. I am bummed out by some maps. I am bummed out by having to choose between an anti-titan weapon and a pistol (really not happy with this one). I am bummed out by the ticks and sentries (getting killed by AI always feels cheap, except perhaps when a grunt punishes you for thinking you're as a pilot above the threat of getting in their face). I am bummed out by the fact that the Sidewinder isn't in the anti-titan class of weapon anymore :^(

Concerning abilities, Cloaked pilots feel a tiny bit too well cloaked, perhaps it is a monitor setting problem. Either way, I hear there will be a change made to it in the coming update. Phase Shift really feels like the most useful ability. Get hit unprepared? Phase out and come back ready. Grapple-guy is fun. Wall-guy doesn't seem fun. Pulse-guy is useful. Sprint-bot looks meh but is fun. Phase-bot looks ok and is really useful. Cloak-guy is useful. Holo-guy looks really good but is very context specific.

One final rant: the R-97, which was the weapon that I used the most in TF1 with the high-rate-of-fire mod, doesn't see any use now. I tried to like it, but it's harder to get kills with it in TF2. I am unsure what is the cause of that. Is it the large bullet spread even at close range, or while moving? Idk.
 

Gator86

Member
Please, a bad Tone is as easy as anything to take out. If you don't like something fine, but don't be pretending that everyone is a master Tone. Every Titan takes time to be really good with.

Either way, we'll see what reasoning Respawn gives for the changes and I hope it's not some BS about "community outcry". If it's anything past a lowered duration, then cloak would be overnerfed.

I'm all phase shift now, but seeing balanced things nerfed is a bit frustrating.

*anxiously anticipating*

I said competent. Words have meaning. There's a skill floor on how bad Tones can be generally. Even most people on here admit Tone is by far the easiest titan to use.

I'm sorry you're so triggered by Respawn balancing their game. Clearly you have superior data compared to the paucity of information available to the actual devs. There's a chance that maybe, just maybe, cloak is poorly designed or overly prevalent and they're tweaking it. Who's to say?
 

FStop7

Banned
The only map I actively despise is Crash Site for two reasons. First, I always start at the lower position. Never once have I spawned on the high ground. Giving one team an immediate sniping position is so bad. Second, I'm constantly getting hung up on terrain. Rocks, crates, corners, ledges, etc. Both on foot and in a titan. There is now flow of movement. It's a bunch of bottlenecks and things to get stuck on.
 
It's not a single tone that is an issue, it's multiple clustered together hiding behind their shields and taking out half a Titan or more before there can be a propr angle of engagement.

Northstar is meant to be the sniper, now he is Support because Tone does most jobs better with more missiles.
 

E92 M3

Member
I said competent. Words have meaning. There's a skill floor on how bad Tones can be generally. Even most people on here admit Tone is by far the easiest titan to use.

I'm sorry you're so triggered by Respawn balancing their game. Clearly you have superior data compared to the paucity of information available to the actual devs. There's a chance that maybe, just maybe, cloak is poorly designed or overly prevalent and they're tweaking it. Who's to say?

Yeah, Tone is easy to pick up and play - no denying that. Like Ryu, it takes a lot to master her though.

Please keep in mind that I come from Destiny where balancing something = it will become useless. I am constantly paranoid that my favorite stuff will become obsolete.
 

deburo

Neo Member
I'm constantly getting hung up on terrain. Rocks, crates, corners, ledges, etc. Both on foot and in a titan. There is now flow of movement. It's a bunch of bottlenecks and things to get stuck on.

I think this is a downside to many maps in TF2. There's just so many details that we can get stuck on when trying to wallrun. On Crash Sites, what's funny are the rock formations that definitely don't look wall-runnable but in fact are. So you start trying to wall-run on a bunch of stuff and see what sticks. When you don't know, it's frustrating.
 
It's not a single tone that is an issue, it's multiple clustered together hiding behind their shields and taking out half a Titan or more before there can be a propr angle of engagement.

Northstar is meant to be the sniper, now he is Support because Tone does most jobs better with more missiles.
That's my biggest issue with tone, besides a team of them. There's liitle denying that tone is the easiest to play and doesnt really have a weakness besides cqc. Most titans struggle with cqc so it's really not an argument. As a northstar user, it's frustrating to see Tone outclass her in everything she's supposed to excel at. That's just vs other titans. Tone can also demolish pilots much more effectively than any other titan. Nothstar needs a hitscan attack ( maybe full charge) and a core that isnt complete garbage. Tone's core is ridiculous and the 40mm is waaay too good at any range vs pilots. You barely have to aim or put thought into engagements and this also makes her boring to play. I use ion, ronin and northsrar because they are much more fun but that doesn't mean things are perfectly balanced. I believe this game is pretty well balanced out of the gate and generally don't have issues with Tone or cloak but some of these guys are kidding themselves if they don't think there's room for small tweaks. Cloak could def use some cooldown and duration changes and tone needs something done to how effective her 40mm is in all situations vs pilots and titans. Maybe range reduction, aoe or auto tracking? I'm not entirely sure. Not calling for major nerfs or buffs, just small adjustments. You can see from my past posts that i have no problem vs cloak or tone.
 
That's how I feel though. It feels like Respawn balanced the game on the assumption the playerbase would be gentlemanly and only pick one of each Titan and loadout.

The result is multiple tones and cloaks on one team and you hardly ever see any other titan.
 

Izuna

Banned
j3D773p.gif


cloak is soooo hard to see /s
 
Against pilots cloak doesn't help that much, but when you're exposed to fire upon a titan, it helps.

I also use it if I'm going to hoof across open terrain in general, though there are several ways to go about doing that. But again, it helps, especially when there are non-cloaked people causing a ruckus around you.
 

deburo

Neo Member
cloak is soooo hard to see /s

He's moving and against a dark background. Try a camped pilot (not moving so it doesn't catch your attention) on top of an elevation so it contrasts against the sky. It's not really a problem unless you'd like to notice him while wall-running, etc. A slight nerf would be appreciated.
 

Izuna

Banned
He's moving and against a dark background. Try a camped pilot (not moving so it doesn't catch your attention) on top of an elevation so it contrasts against the sky. It's not really a problem unless you'd like to notice him while wall-running, etc. A slight nerf would be appreciated.

I dunno :s share a screenshot of where. Even against the sky it's fine.
 

excaliburps

Press - MP1st.com
I'm just having a bad time on the Australian server. Literally everyone is tone and cloak and it kills the potential of this game.

For Tone, use Ion? I think I mostly melt Tones with Ion.

For Cloak spam, maybe use the threat scope? I think those still highlight the enemy even with Cloak, right? If so, that's an easy solution.
 

ultron87

Member
Why did it take me so long to try Northstar? She's incredible! Feels way more effective and surviveable then with the Titans that need to get in close. Especially with three dashes.
 
I never liked Cloak as a mechanic in any multiplayer game. With that said, there are at least 3 better abilities so keep using it while I Stim straight up your semi-invisible ass.

It is annoying sometimes though. With certain backgrounds or sunlight in your eye, it is occasionally very hard to see. In that sense its usefulness is pretty much by accident.

cloak is soooo hard to see /s

He should have killed you when he was standing on the box looking straight at you. It looks like you didn't see him until he jumped down, so it did its job. It's an obvious outline, but it's definitely harder to see than a player without one, especially in certain situations.
 

E92 M3

Member
I use Phase and Cloak. Favorite feature of cloak is hiding from the bots and attacking Titans. I am very heavy into killing/annoying Titans. Something that I have always enjoyed since the first game.
 

Izuna

Banned
He should have killed you when he was standing on the box looking straight at you. It looks like you didn't see him until he jumped down, so it did its job. It's an obvious outline, but it's definitely harder to see than a player without one, especially in certain situations.

No, I saw him fast quick as I would normally. In fact, Cloak is easier to see because minions can be red also.
 
j3D773p.gif


cloak is soooo hard to see /s

You being serious? You didn't even see him at first. No idea what he was doing, but had he been paying attention the outcome would've been different.

No one is saying you can't spot cloaked pilots, but to say it doesn't offer an advantage is insane.

(I love cloak for the record and don't want it nerfed!)
 

Izuna

Banned
You being serious? You didn't even see him at first. No idea what he was doing, but had he been paying attention the outcome would've been different.

No one is saying you can't spot cloaked pilots, but to say it doesn't offer an advantage is insane.

(I love cloak for the record and don't want it nerfed!)

No, I saw the dude the second he popped up, I just didn't stop shooting the Spectre until it died.

I have NEVER died by a cloaked Pilot and thought (man, I couldn't see him).
 
I must be weird because I acquire cloak guys instantly but have tons of trouble distinguishing between bots and pilots. I know many are not in the same boat.

You're not biologically different to the rest of us, at a neurological level, contrasting luminance always captures attention faster. Pilots, who glow orange, contrast the environment far more significantly, and therefore capture attention faster than a pilot that provides only a very minor change in contrast.

You definitely 'get used to it' but I believe if we were to test any of us, our reaction times would be slower to cloaked pilots than non-cloaked pilots. The difference is there even if you do not seem to feel it explicitly.

j3D773p.gif


cloak is soooo hard to see /s

Seems like it. Why the hell did you put a burst into a stalker sooner than the pilot if he wasn't hard to see?

No, I saw the dude the second he popped up, I just didn't stop shooting the Spectre until it died.

I have NEVER died by a cloaked Pilot and thought (man, I couldn't see him).

You weren't even shooting the spectre when the pilot appeared on screen. You're seriously trying to tell us that you saw a pilot and a spectre and you chose to reposition the camera and aim down sights onto the spectre? If that pilot wasn't terrible or preoccupied with your team mates Titan, he would have killed you.
 

Arkos

Nose how to spell and rede to
Wait, wait, wait - so you're saying this "cloak" thing offers an advantage?! That's an outrage!!

*sprints halfway across map, grapple-rodeos, sensor tracks pilot and kills him with shield-amped shot*

Outrage, I say.
 
New Titan question- Has anyone tried rolling with a Highlander Ronin?

There are so many other options but I only seem to use Extra Dash + Thunderstorm
 

Izuna

Banned
You weren't even shooting the spectre when the pilot appeared on screen. You're seriously trying to tell us that you saw a pilot and a spectre and you chose to reposition the camera and aim down sights onto the spectre? If that pilot wasn't terrible or preoccupied with your team mates Titan, he would have killed you.

I had already committed to shoot the cloaked pilot in this example. I don't even see how it's hard to understand especially when the Pilot is offscreen by the time I turn to look at him.

For real, cloak isn't some "amazingly OP ability", it was easy to see in R1 and it's easy to see in R2.

And as for why I'm hitting the Stalker... it's because I can't confirm that's not a Pilot that quick. Anyway w/e, I don't think this is a bad example but I'll take another clip if you like.

I have never really heard about anyone complaining about cloak in R1 or R2 until very recently. I remember peeps laughing at people using it though
 
Wait, wait, wait - so you're saying this "cloak" thing offers an advantage?! That's an outrage!!

*sprints halfway across map, grapple-rodeos, sensor tracks pilot and kills him with shield-amped shot*

Outrage, I say.

Personally I think amped damage and shield amp damage are unfair also. They drop the TTK on certain weapons to 0, even with body shots, and that's just silly in my opinion. People talk about the TTK being low but with amped damage it becomes a real issue. Also, why isn't sitting behind an invincible wall enough? I don't get why it also needs to have the damage boost. In a game with a lightening fast TTK, being behind an invincible wall is enough to win you the encounter, without a doubt, yet Respan decided they also need to outdamage their aggressors too, as if shooting through an invincible barrier didn't provide enough of a tactical advantage?

The rest? Well, they don't affect gunfights directly. They don't passively affect target acquisition (they need to be triggered) or time to kill. You can just walk around with cloak for almost half the game and gain a persistent advantage, you can't do that with any other class.

I had already committed to shoot the cloaked pilot in this example. I don't even see how it's hard to understand especially when the Pilot is offscreen by the time I turn to look at him.

For real, cloak isn't some "amazingly OP ability", it was easy to see in R1 and it's easy to see in R2.

Why did you commit to shooting the Spectre though? Anyone can see it in the GIF clear as day, both the spectre and the cloaked pilot are on your screen at the same time, and you chose to target the spectre, why? I think it's clear that you did not see him. At the very least, even if you did see him, your attention was captured more strongly by the glowing NPC.

It could have easily have gone another way, where that pilot kills you for not targeting him. You give him almost two seconds on your screen. As I said, if he wasn't busy with whatever was ahead of him, he would have killed you before you switched target.

As for the pilot being off screen, it's not as difficult to see when you know what to expect, and not only that but the console versions of the game have some considerable sticky aim making that kind of snap shot a lot easier to pull off than it would otherwise be.
 

Izuna

Banned
Personally I think amped damage and shield amp damage are unfair also. They drop the TTK on certain weapons to 0, even with body shots, and that's just silly in my opinion. People talk about the TTK being low, but why isn't sitting behind an invincible wall enough? I don't get why it also needs to have the damage boost.

The rest? Well, they don't affect gunfights directly. They don't passively affect target acquisition (they need to be triggered) or time to kill. You can just walk around with cloak for almost half the game and gain a persistent advantage, you can't do that with any other class.

If EVERYTHING is unfair...

And Stim is incredible. Cloak doesn't come close. It's also trash in comparison to say, Phase Shift in PvP.

As for the pilot being off screen, it's not as difficult to see when you know what to expect, and not only that but the console versions of the game have some considerable sticky aim making that kind of snap shot a lot easier to pull off than it would otherwise be.

You hate cloak so much, you're thinking way too much into this.

Can you show gameplay of a cloaked pilot killing you, where it is hard to see?

And what is your complaint. That Cloak is too Cloaky or that you hate ANYTHING that would a Pilot a little harder to see?

----------


http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Cobalt Izuna/video/23762825 <-- Northstar is Bae
 
Nah cloak is fine.

Seems like it. Why the hell did you put a burst into a stalker sooner than the pilot if he wasn't hard to see?

He already started to shoot the spectre before the pilot shows up, and he immediately turns to track the cloaked pilot the moment he jumped into his sight, you don't just simply stop what you are doing to do something else, especially when it is "shooting things", that is how our brain works, and I bet you'll make the exact decision if you were there, you are basically nitpicking at this point.
 
Nah cloak is fine.



He already started to shoot the spectre before the pilot shows up, and he immediately turns to track the cloaked pilot the moment he jumped into his sight, you don't just simply stop what you are doing to do something else, especially when it is "shooting things", that is how our brain works, and I bet you'll make the exact decision if you were there, you are basically nitpicking at this point.

Except that's not true. You can break it down frame by frame if you like, you can clearly see the cloaked pilot climb the crate on the right side, far before he started shooting anything. The fact that you guys can't seem to see that is worrying, in and of itself.

I would probably make the same decision if I were him, but that's because I would have scanned the environment and had my attention drawn to the Spectre, and not the cloaked pilot, just has he did. The crucial distinction however, is whether any of us would have done the same if the pilot climbing the right hand side were not using cloak. They appear in view at the same time. There is no chance I would target a spectre above a pilot if I had seen them both, and there is no chance I would continue shooting if I was well aware he was there.

I don't think cloak is phenomenally overpowered but I think it offers enough utility at mid-long range, allowing easier control of roof tops and overwatches, without offering a persistent advantage in head to head gunfights, regardless of how small that advantage may be. I do not think cloak is an automatic win for any encounter, and I think for the most part the bad players online aren't going to have an easy time irrespective of the equipment they use, however I do feel that, in principle we should not have classes or perks that affect time to kill (directly via damage, or indirectly via target acquisition).
 
Except that's not true. You can break it down frame by frame if you like, you can clearly see the cloaked pilot climb the crate on the right side, far before he started shooting anything. The fact that you guys can't seem to see that is worrying, in and of itself.

I would probably make the same decision if I were him, but that's because I would have scanned the environment and had my attention drawn to the Spectre, and not the cloaked pilot. The crucial distinction however, is whether any of us would have done the same if the pilot climbing the right hand side were not using cloak. They appear in view at the same time. There is no chance I would target a spectre above a pilot if I had seen them both, and there is no chance I would continue shooting if I was well aware he was there.

Reaction time, form, mindset are real things. Even if that pilot wasn't cloaked, I (and probably anyone) would still be focused on the spectre for a split second, then turn onto the pilot, cloak does not change the dynamics here.
 

Izuna

Banned
Except that's not true. You can break it down frame by frame if you like, you can clearly see the cloaked pilot climb the crate on the right side, far before he started shooting anything. The fact that you guys can't seem to see that is worrying, in and of itself.

I would probably make the same decision if I were him, but that's because I would have scanned the environment and had my attention drawn to the Spectre, and not the cloaked pilot. The crucial distinction however, is whether any of us would have done the same if the pilot climbing the right hand side were not using cloak. They appear in view at the same time. There is no chance I would target a spectre above a pilot if I had seen them both, and there is no chance I would continue shooting if I was well aware he was there.

You can break it down frame by frame if you want, but that's not how the human mind works. I had committed to killing the AI.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Cobalt Izuna/video/23209614

I do the same thing here.

Honestly it's easier to "know" that a cloaked Pilot is in fact a Pilot. I have more trouble differentiating Pilots from Minions usually. THAT is what gets on my nerves. ESPECIALLY since sonar makes Minions glow as if they are Pilots. Like FUCK.

Cloak removes that problem for me.
 
Holy shit. Fuck these maps...lol. I just rage quit a game because I stole a battery from an enemy titan, jumped off, and fell down into an area of map where you aren't allowed to be. I tried over and over to jump and climb back up, and it was a nook built in such a way I couldn't get back on the map...and ended up dying. Holy shit, I'm pissed.
 

Keihart

Member
I think this is a downside to many maps in TF2. There's just so many details that we can get stuck on when trying to wallrun. On Crash Sites, what's funny are the rock formations that definitely don't look wall-runnable but in fact are. So you start trying to wall-run on a bunch of stuff and see what sticks. When you don't know, it's frustrating.

I hate crash site because of this most than anithyng.
 
Man, Tone is cheesy easy street. I just had my best game because of that Titan. Just casually get a double kill here. Casually obliterate 4 Specters from a distance. Take out 2 titans while they can barely touch me.
 
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