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TMNT Mutant Mayhem Trailer
- Thread starter AJUMP23
- Start date
TransTrender
Gold Member
Wow sometimes that art direction looks great, but at other times it doesn't seem consistent...
Toons
Member
someone may have told you already but no she wasnt black... it was just a perm. that haristyle was big in the 80s in NYC.
first TMNT april in the comic in color.
It was ambiguous originally. The first actual time she was colored, predating this, the colorist colored her to be black because he also thought she was.
The reason she gets called black is because visually she was indeed inspired by a mixed woman kevin Eastman was dating at the time who basixsllt just drew her for April's look. And during the conceptual stages she was Asian.
Her race wasn't mentioned or stated specifically until the cartoon which redesigned her as a redhead.
Regardless, it shouldn't be a problem to anyone at this point. This franchise has reinvented itself visually, demographically, and tonally a million times over. If a character being a different race in a version is too much for someone then that's a them problem at this point.
Baxter stockman wss originally black bur white in the cartoon. Bebop was originally black but apparently he will be a white guy in this unless seth Rogan is trying to black a black dude with his voice. It's not a big deal.
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0neAnd0nly
Member
Respectfully, nothing you say is true here:
Was April O'Neil Originally Black in the Mirage Comics? (Spoiler: No, she Wasn't)
There has been a long-standing misconception within the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle community, and especially those outside of it, that...
tmntentity.blogspot.com
I hope that helps.
Toons
Member
From your own link:Respectfully, nothing you say is true here:
Was April O'Neil Originally Black in the Mirage Comics? (Spoiler: No, she Wasn't)
There has been a long-standing misconception within the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle community, and especially those outside of it, that...
I hope that helps.
Which is what I said.
Granted I got some dates wrong as regard to that non canon sorry in which April was colored as black.
Everything else I said is accurate.
Kevin eastman hasn't definitely stated one way or the other. The point is, there is plenty of precedent for her to be depicted as black, and it really doesn't matter in this franchise. She could be Asian or Hispanic or anything in the next reboot, the franchise reinvents itself with each iteration.
0neAnd0nly
Member
From your own link:
Which is what I said.
Granted I got some dates wrong as regard to that non canon sorry in which April was colored as black.
Everything else I said is accurate.
Kevin eastman hasn't definitely stated one way or the other. The point is, there is plenty of precedent for her to be depicted as black, and it really doesn't matter in this franchise. She could be Asian or Hispanic or anything in the next reboot, the franchise reinvents itself with each iteration.
You omitted the follow up paragraph, which again - refutes that.
“That does lend some further confusion, as Eastman has said he named April after his then-wife and Laird suspects he saw April as either black or mixed, like his wife. But that doesn't change the fact that Eastman drew April as white in her first appearances and colored her as white (or oversaw and approved the colors) in the First Comics trade paperback reprints. If he personally saw her as black, that isn't something that made it onto the page in her earliest appearances. And if it was the intention with her new look beginning with TMNT #4, it was an intention that didn't stick, as she lost those aesthetics 20 or so issues later.”
I am not trying to dunk on you or throw an opinion in here, I just don’t like misinformation festering online anywhere.
Toons
Member
That paragraph is entirely irrelevant. Thats interjection from the article writer.
Im looking at exactly what was written by the creators who are the *only* two reliable sources on this.
This guy has absolutely no clue what the "intention" was because he wasn't there. Peter laird, who was there, says kevin probably based her visually on his mixed girlfriend when creating her, while he himself considers her to be white. The books didn't start getting colored til multiple issues in, so the coloring stuff is mostly dubious at best, and mixed girls can look pale and even have reddish hair too(although April was definitely not a redhead in the original books). My best friends wife is mixed and under certain lighting almost looks like a redhead.
The reality is no one will ever know what exactly thing Kevin had in his mind when he drew her for the first few times but it doesn't really matter to this discussion anyway, because TMNT reinvents itself every once in a while and its characters will have different looks and even characterization in different versions. The 2k3 show introduced a secondary villain called hun who was a big blonde gangster. In the 2012 cartoon Hun is an Asian Bruce Lee expy.
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0neAnd0nly
Member
Respectfully how does “Eastman colored her as white” equate to interjection?
It’s fact, he colored her as white in the first comics trade paperback. Eastman himself.
So if both of them, Eastman and Laird agree she is white, where is there any confusion of her race from the comics?
Toons
Member
Because that's not necessarily the case. He colored her being fair but you csn be mixed and fair skinned. Saying he drew her as white is just his own visual interpretation of her feature.
What you actually need is the expoicit intention of the artist to represent the character as being white and to my knowledge Eastman has never explicitly said that.
GnomeChimpsky
Member
Look what they done to my boy girl Donatello 
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Ulysses 31
Member
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
I dont mind the art style + rapid camera movement. It reminds me a lot of Spiderverse.
Toons
Member
Got to see this early.
Had a great time. Exceeded my expectations, but if you hate kids or young people or spend your days whining about gen Z you probably wont find it as appealing as others will.
Probably the most authentic portrayal of young people I've seen in a long time, and I don't mean corporations idea of young people but "kids you come across in the mall' young people. It feels fresh and its quite entertaining.
The characters are all well rounded and well developed and are a lot of fun.
They do some unique stuff with the way the story plays out that the franchise rarely does and never this soon.
Zero political references in this movie. Music is GREAT, a mix of 90s urban but also a hilarious use of a meme song. action sequences are slick, and the animation is really cool. I loved this one
Had a great time. Exceeded my expectations, but if you hate kids or young people or spend your days whining about gen Z you probably wont find it as appealing as others will.
Probably the most authentic portrayal of young people I've seen in a long time, and I don't mean corporations idea of young people but "kids you come across in the mall' young people. It feels fresh and its quite entertaining.
The characters are all well rounded and well developed and are a lot of fun.
They do some unique stuff with the way the story plays out that the franchise rarely does and never this soon.
Zero political references in this movie. Music is GREAT, a mix of 90s urban but also a hilarious use of a meme song. action sequences are slick, and the animation is really cool. I loved this one
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
My kids wanted to go so I took them. The movie is legitimately fun. I hate the art style but the story and characters are good. To me they are more middle schoolers than teens. A couple of scenes made me laugh. Splinter is great. Really a story about seeking acceptance.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Looks like a movie for kids and the mindless. Not unexpected from Seth Rogan.
Synless
Member
Ok, question? Why were so many villians good in this movie? Also, shit art style but it was semi-enjoyable. It was no Miles Morales though.
also:
there were absolutely political messages in the movie.
also:
there were absolutely political messages in the movie.
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Why?
I think it is because in comics the redhead is a hero adjacent character, the hair color makes them easily distinguishable from the blonde or brunette lead character. So it's the girlfriend, the sidekick, or the #1 lackey that is the ginger and when "diversifying" the cast for today, those are the characters that get changed.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Ariel, Batwoman and Little Annie aren’t side characters though.
Toons
Member
If you follow the comics most of those characters aren't even villains. Bebop and rocksteady are it, the others are usually anti heroes or good guys in the soruce material.
Nah. Theres nothing political at all in this. You'd have to be really reaching to find anything.
Toons
Member
Batwoman isn't even a natural redhead in the source material. She wears a wig/dyes her hair.
And also, Kate kane, her alter ego was played by a white girl wearing a red wig til the actress left the role and they inserted an OC.
April o Neil also isn't a redhead in the source material. That was an invention of the initial cartoon. But as I've said, this franchise has been known for reinventing itself and its characters in all manner of ways every few years. Its practically a selling point at this stage, so I don't get why it's still a big deal when another version of a character is wildly different than a prior one.
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KaiserBecks
Member
Keep arguing about whether or not April is black, who gives a shit. We had a great time with this movie. Felt more like a John Hughes film than a super-hero story, which was a pleasant surprise. Soundtrack and score were also excellent, we are very much looking forward to the sequel.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
You forgot Ariel and Little Annie. You also don’t get into why they are all blackwashed.
LegendOfKage
Member
The people who took an established character and changed her race, apparently.
Glad to hear it sounds like they made a good movie. What was the deal with Donatello, though? Did they change the gender of the character, or is he the youngest maybe so they made him sound like a little kid? Did the movie ever explain it?
Toons
Member
I didnt forget them, they just weren't relevant to my response.
Theres dozens of redhead characters who are still redheads... including kate kane. You also forgot that April also wasn't a redhead in the last turtle movies either, but she also wasn't black.
Ariel was cast black because the woman who delivered the best audition according to the director and casting agents, whos price fit their budget and whps schedule was clear and could deliver the singing chops needed, happened to be black.
Annie was a modern retelling of the story much like "The Wiz" was for wizard of oz, more of a demographical change than anything, a "retelling" to fit the era.
Kate Kane was never race swapped. She is white and was played by a white actress. The other actress they got wasn't playing Kate kane.
April got changed for the same reason bebop is not a black guy mutanted jnto a warthog in this movie. Because this franchise reinvents itself often and features new versions of characters with fresh takes on them, so races, style, alignment to good or evil are subject to change.
Toons
Member
This franchise changes established characters every few years, including race, its been doing onsince day one. First race swap was in the first cartoon where Baxter was turned white.
In this film, hes black, but concept art during production showed they considered making him white again in this. They arent purists for the original and never have been.
Donnie is a boy, his voice actor is a teenager, he just sounds like that. No explanation is given other than that the kids are young
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LegendOfKage
Member
And if you believe the people who made the cartoon were wrong for making that change, I'm right there with you. And if you don't, then we just disagree.
Thanks for the explanation where you explain that there's no explanation. Seriously though, thanks for clearing that up.
KaiserBecks
Member
A lot has been established and a lot has been changed, April being black is just the most obvious thing you can spot when watching the trailers. It all makes sense though and fits the overall theme.
They are teenagers and he's the youngest. IIRC there were a couple of voice cracks so it's clear that his voice is still developing.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I think that is just the actor. He doesn’t invent anything or really care about science at all in the movie.
Toons
Member
Do you realize that Kevin Eastman, the one of the two men who brought these characters into existence, was involved in the production of both that cartoon and this movie, actively supports both and promotes it? Theres no disagreeing with that. This is how they want the franchise to operate. Characters will change from their original version, that is not some bug being inserted by others, that is something the creators actively endorse.
......ok lol
Doom85
Member
Easily the best Ninja Turtles film since the original first live-action film (I really enjoy the 2000’s animated movie, and the live-action ones from last decade are okay. The original second film I don’t like due to the censorship and other issues, and the third movie can die in a fire), like holy crap. This movie is just pure fun. I also like while it definitely feels Spider-verse inspired with its animation, it still has its unique look. Voice acting, direction, and pacing were super on point.
I see a sequel has been green lit, I’m a little worried with the BO performance, but the budget wasn’t super high so hopefully a sequel happens as I definitely want to see more of this.
I see a sequel has been green lit, I’m a little worried with the BO performance, but the budget wasn’t super high so hopefully a sequel happens as I definitely want to see more of this.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
We all know that’s bullshit.
Toons
Member
Believe what you wish. The directors comments and all available evidence points to that being the case.
The notion of a multi billion dollar studio casting a tent pole film in such a lackadaisical manner is a fiction. These casting decisions go through approval dozens if not hundreds of execs of all shapes and sizes, because casting can literslly mean the hundreds of millions of dollars difference.
He said they auditioned every ethnicity under the sun, but hers was the best, she had the singing chops and stood out amongst them. Having seen her sing id be hard pressed to imagine anyone else in the age range could pull off the main song better.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I would like animation to get away from celebrity voice cast. I like movies like American tail that had some celebs mixed in but the story was the draw not the cast.
I understand that if you had Tom cruise in your movie it is draw. But we don’t have to do that.
Toons
Member
Depends.
I guarantee you Mario does less numbers without the cast it had. Like... guarantee. Maybe you can drop a few of them but these actors become bankable stars for a reason.
They become a brand onto themselves and folks who like their stuff will go see it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
But think about it.. theres not a single voice actor that is nearly as expensive as one of these big actors yet the studios still go for them. in the age of social media, those actors and their reach and their influence bing attached to your film is clearly worth the much, muuuuuuch higher paycheck they'd demand.
That said I am always in support of giving new folks a change and thankfully this tmnt movie did that for its central teen characters. Granted a few of them have done voice work but they arent major stars. The turtles have often highlighted lesser known actors to play the main cast, with a few exceptions.
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Richard Packer
Member
I only watched it because of Chris Pratt.Toons i think Mario would have been fine without the cast.
Agreed. Maybe that Jack Black song is the exception.
IMHO the one advantage of 'real' actors doing voices is for the PR side. Is TMNT taking the turtle voice actors out to talk shows and premiers?
Toons
Member
Well.. they WERE but there's a strike going on.
Toons
Member
The idea is basically to get people who are a dan of those actors but not a fan of the actual product. A girl who likes anya Taylor Joy but doesn't give af about Mario is 10000% more likely to consider seeing the movie if she's in it.
Same with Jack black and the like. It'll reeel in a few who otherwise wouldn't have bothered.