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Tomb Raider |OT| Lara's Misfortune
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
I thought the QTEs in Tomb Raider Legend were awesome, but this was before QTEs became an industry standard. I don't personally mind QTEs, since they allow us to do cinematic things in the game that would be very hard to reconstruct via gameplay. Anyone remember this?
SlasherJPC
Banned
Pretty much. I understand they have issues with the game and respect that. Yet I truly feely they are the exception and not the rule. Almost everyone I've personally talked to have loved the new Tomb Raider. From locally, to online, to youtube, etc.
NullPointer
Member
Why couldn't this be direct input gameplay?
QTEs let you play out scenes that there's no way anyone could control. I really don't see the downside. This is a moment I'll never forget in Vanquish, and it adds to the gameplay, not subtracts from it.
I also disagree that QTEs can't be gameplay. Project Diva f is basically one giant QTE game, and it's difficult and fun. Really difficult actually. It's pure reflex gameplay.
It feels like a funeral of the gaming industry. Every new game comes out and continues to strip more and more control from the player and then illustrates over and over how little they trust gamers to adapt and acquire skills, and it makes me sad. I remembered back in the day when people got into making games because they loved them and they loved their fellow gamers, and what they wanted to do was make memorable GAMEPLAY, not memorable nonsense set pieces with little-to-no meaningful control
Haha, although I won't hold that against the game... you could probably make shit like that look weird if you do awkward shit like that in most games
SlasherJPC
Banned
It feels like a funeral of the gaming industry. Every new game comes out and continues to strip more and more control from the player and then illustrates over and over how little they trust gamers to adapt and acquire skills, and it makes me sad. I remembered back in the day when people got into making games because they loved them and they loved their fellow gamers, and what they wanted to do was make memorable GAMEPLAY, not memorable nonsense set pieces with little-to-no meaningful control
This is why games like Dark Souls exist
They may be few and far between but it happens 
Agree with most of this, though I feel they did a very adequate job with the weapons system. The tombs definitely needed to be more fleshed out, although going forward with the franchise I'm not sure how they'll handle them. If Lara matures into the old Tomb Raider persona then having the tombs optional kind of goes against what she'd be doing in game as an experienced super-archeologist. It'd be great if they could keep the survival action theme without the tombs feeling inconsequential.
seems you put as much effort into your posts as the developers of Tomb Raider put into the gameplay. Seems perfect fit for each other, no surprise here then
slasher_thrasher21 said:This is why games like Dark Souls exist
And now, after this, one fewer T_T
But seriously, after this I know I have to move on from the Tomb Raider series once and for all (unless they make a sequel to Guardian of Light), and it's just a sad day for gamers as far as I'm concerned. It's not that I don't understand that there is an audience for this... thing... but that I feel they sacrificed an infinitely superior gameplay foundation for this. If only they didn't do that, I'd be able to ignore the failings
tetsuo said:
Since there is no way to predict the first time through a QTE segment what letter will come up, there is no real way to acquire a skill to get better at it... you have to simply get lucky and hope the window for the QTE button is large enough so you can respond in case your finger is arbitrarily hovering slightly over the wrong button, or whatever.
QTEs are just fucking embarrassingly awful game design in every way. The true lazy developers crutch of choice these days.
Many of us who liked the game have left this thread and are ready to brighten up the Bioshock Infinite OT with our unrelenting positivity. For a while, at least.
None of those QTE segments needed to be a QTE and don't add to the game play. Leon fighting Krauser is no better than Vergil and Dante fighting in the moonlight on top on Temen Ni Gru. The Vanquish scene also pales in comparison to Dante surfing enemies in a cutscene and then doing it in game.
A well directed action cutscene or excellent combat mechanics trump the need for QTEs. Its a lazy design meant to engineer shallow entertainment and interactivity. You know something is shallow when after you do it once you don't care to do it again because you cannot change the scripted event. However I can change the trajectory of Dante surfing or charge guns during it or charge Rebellion during it to get the most out of a single mechanic. Free Ride in DMC3 is pretty much a QTE, enemy is put into a vulnerable state, you press a button and cool shit happens. The difference is that there isn't a giant X flashing on the enemy indicating that it is now OK to press X to Free Ride.
A well directed action cutscene or excellent combat mechanics trump the need for QTEs. Its a lazy design meant to engineer shallow entertainment and interactivity. You know something is shallow when after you do it once you don't care to do it again because you cannot change the scripted event. However I can change the trajectory of Dante surfing or charge guns during it or charge Rebellion during it to get the most out of a single mechanic. Free Ride in DMC3 is pretty much a QTE, enemy is put into a vulnerable state, you press a button and cool shit happens. The difference is that there isn't a giant X flashing on the enemy indicating that it is now OK to press X to Free Ride.
toastyToast
Member
Because a system for climbing things and punching them in the head doesn't exist? It's like a flourish or a cherry on top. You already won the battle.
Incendiary
Banned
MidnightCowboy
Member
I can't believe anybody could think the AI in this game is good. YOU CAN SHOOT EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE HEAD, EASILY. I'm an awful marksman in games, atrocious, and even I was able to breeze through the game. Every enemy sticks their head out from behind cover for like 5 seconds at a time.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
I remember playing RE5 and going through the fight scene with Wesker in the plane towards the end of the game. It was pretty intense because it kept you on your toes - you had to hit the right buttons at the right time or Wesker would knock you out. Sure, it wasn't an example of great gameplay, but it was a great moment that heightened the suspense for me and allowed the game to include me in something that would have otherwise been a cutscene. I can see why some people don't like that, but I enjoyed it.
SlasherJPC
Banned
And now, after this, one fewer T_T
But seriously, after this I know I have to move on from the Tomb Raider series once and for all (unless they make a sequel to Guardian of Light), and it's just a sad day for gamers as far as I'm concerned. It's not that I don't understand that there is an audience for this... thing... but that I feel they sacrificed an infinitely superior gameplay foundation for this. If only they didn't do that, I'd be able to ignore the failings
Well and I can understand if not feel your pain. I know this is a vastly different beast then the other TR, and coming from me, a person who loves a highly cinematic game such as this and Uncharted. I get it. These games are very specific, not much diviation from what your supposed to do and can do. Don't take alot of skill persay. They really are the definitive version of like an over-the-top summer action flick and that's not for everyone, but damnnnnnn... I'm definetly part of the problem cause I love em. Though I have a passion for many facets of gaming so. Hopefully the next TR will incorperate more of the Tomb stuff and puzzles and make it a bit more for both camps.
slasher_thrasher21 said:
You're not a "problem" if you pick this game up; people like what they like.
And if there's any silver lining I can see, it's that they do have in place a foundation (if I really dig up all the heap of trash on top, and I wipe the dirt out of my eyes) that could mean, if they so chose, that the next Tomb Raider game could in fact be quite like the old ones, and be much better for it. Especially platforming... so tantalizing in what could have been, so colossally disappointing that they simply chose what I feel is lazy game design instead
Off topic, of course, but quickly: Two more different games I could not think of. I think I'll be fairly positive about Bioshock Infinite if it hits the same notes as Bioshock 1 and much of Bioshock 2. Amazingly realized world design and atmosphere, serviceable gameplay that actually can put pressure on the gamer on hardest difficulty (especially if you go for Brass Balls).
I think Infinite's gameplay seems somewhat deeper and even more flexible, though, so that'd be a nice cherry.
You mash all the buttons together and you will never miss a RE QTE. Once you figure out the gimmick to QTEs, its like mashing Start to make them skip.
NullPointer
Member
Every new game comes out and continues to strip more and more control from the player and then illustrates over and over how little they trust gamers to adapt and acquire skills, and it makes me sad. I remembered back in the day when people got into making games because they loved them and they loved their fellow gamers, and what they wanted to do was make memorable GAMEPLAY, not memorable nonsense set pieces with little-to-no meaningful control
Summed up my feelings way better than I've been able to.It's not that I don't understand that there is an audience for this... thing... but that I feel they sacrificed an infinitely superior gameplay foundation for this. If only they didn't do that, I'd be able to ignore the failings
I can get on board with this. Sometimes it is overkill, but sometimes it serves to heighten the intensity of the moment when done right in a well made game. I am more than OK with that.
XOMTOR
Member
As a long time Tomb Raider fan, it also pains me to confirm that GoW does indeed have more and better puzzles than the new TR. Actually come to think of it, it has more challenging platforming too. Shit's just depressing.
haha... shit it does
oh god that means God of War is now more Tomb Raider than Tomb Raider is
*runs off sobbing and slams the door*
I'm in that camp as well LOL
Games like Dark Souls I can play for hundreds of hours (almost at the 300 hour mark now and I've only had the game for 3 months!), and with a game like Tomb Raider I can play it once or twice and be satisfied. I played through The Walking Dead once, have no desire to play it again and it was one of the best experiences last year for me.
Wow, what a negative attention whore you are.
Gaming industry is doomed because you didn't like the game! Oh noeeees!
Gaming industry is doomed because you didn't like the game! Oh noeeees!
seems you put as much effort into your posts as the developers of Tomb Raider put into the gameplay. Seems perfect fit for each other, no surprise here then
And now, after this, one fewer T_T
But seriously, after this I know I have to move on from the Tomb Raider series once and for all (unless they make a sequel to Guardian of Light), and it's just a sad day for gamers as far as I'm concerned. It's not that I don't understand that there is an audience for this... thing... but that I feel they sacrificed an infinitely superior gameplay foundation for this. If only they didn't do that, I'd be able to ignore the failings
Since there is no way to predict the first time through a QTE segment what letter will come up, there is no real way to acquire a skill to get better at it... you have to simply get lucky and hope the window for the QTE button is large enough so you can respond in case your finger is arbitrarily hovering slightly over the wrong button, or whatever.
QTEs are just fucking embarrassingly awful game design in every way. The true lazy developers crutch of choice these days.
More no effort into your posts. You're quite obviously not long for this world, but because I'm feeling generous and friendly and had a great day, I'll simply direct you to the stickied OP by the website's owner, so as you can be informed and perhaps change:
Evilore said:
Link.
If you cannot bother to put any effort into your posts, don't embarrass yourself by continuing the charade. You don't have the ability to defend your position, or else you would have done so. That's ok. But in the future, just skip the posts that offend your posting abilities so as you don't have to stick out like a sore thumb.
The gaming industry is not "doomed" because I don't like the game, the average quality of games are doomed if they continue this trend of continued removal of control from players and the obvious lack of trust in gamers abilities. And I think this is fairly self-evident by the quality of most "AAA MODERN GAMES" these days. Don't let me stop every website from guaranteeing these games a 9.0 two years in advance, though.
Because the game doesn't work that way. Vanquish is a shooter with no jump button and limited melee options. What you want would be a totally different game that I'm not even sure is technically possible.
Was anyone not expecting this, though? I wasn't following this game closely, but it was very clearly an Uncharted clone, the reveal way back when was all scripted events. It was nothing like old Tomb Raider games.
I've seen more opinions from people who love TR and hate Uncharted for some reason, and I can't understand that either P:
Incendiary
Banned
I love Uncharted 2, I really do, and it's up there for me as possible Game of the Generation. But what I feel the big difference between Uncharted 2 and Tomb Raider is that U2 offers cinematic gameplay, while Tomb Raider is a cinematic game, and I think there's a big difference.
Uncharted 2 never feels bland or boring. It gives you over-the-top action, but you're always right in the thick of things. It never feels easy. You're doing something, dodging bullets, jumping from jeep to jeep. There's an element of interactivity that is just missing in Tomb Raider. Running forward and jumping while the building is collapsing around you sounds good on paper, but you can admit there's a very different feel between U2's collapsing building action sequence and any of the multitude of collapsing something sequences that Tomb Raider offers over and over again.
If Uncharted 2 is, say, Die Hard, then Tomb Raider is the upcoming Olympus Has Fallen. It checks all the boxes of a blockbuster action flick, but it is missing something that makes it really pop out and stand out.
And again, this doesn't make Tomb Raider bad, it just makes it average.
Phonomezer
Banned
Shenmue I & II still have the best QTEs.
Well, I don't love Uncharted and also love this game, but I'd like to know who you think does that.
But for the record, I can see one fairly simple reason...
gamers have one expectation going into an Uncharted game
and an entirely different expectation going into a Tomb Raider game, a series noted for a very particular and unique type of gameplay that is essentially non-existent in this day and age (to the industries endless shame)
JDS 2.0 said:
"Big words"? What are you three or something dude? I don't even think any words I've used ITT go beyond the seventh grade level lol
But again, this is illustrative of my point - you have time to waste energy making embarrassing no-content posts, but you can't even begin to be arsed to put effort into something that resembles a thought about anything. This a game discussion forum; if you don't want to have a discussion, there are plenty of other places for you to exist. So you should probably skip out on conversations where people are actually responding and respecting each other's point of view. Maybe use twitter?
Well Uncharted has pretty shit gameplay too.
But what it does have are better graphics, better and slightly more lighthearted stories, better acting, better animation, better dialogue (better writing in general I guess would be easier to say), better setpieces, more likable characters. ND are some of the best in the industry at the cinematic stuff which I guess is why everyone is trying to copy them lately, for better and for worse.
Square Triangle
Member
100%, findings those ghost hunter charms was not fun.
toastyToast
Member
Some people swore up and down that the game would have old school puzzles like TR in those optional tombs and more involved platforming. I want those people here so they can eat their crow.
Harlequin where you at son?
So far every collapsing building I have run across just feels so slow, but that was the one near the Mountain Pass so I will play on and see.
NullPointer
Member
Its certainly technically possible. Just as its possible to decompose what would be QTEs into smaller more cinematic context-sensitive actions a player can take. I can jack tanks and mechs in Halo using context sensitive commands, and I can clear a room of dozens of bad guys with flourishes aplenty in the Arkham games, but its still player input decisions driving the experience and leading to cinematic results.
By the way, Uncharted 2 has an example of a set piece that is actually meaningful to the gameplay, and thus is one of the game's highlights... the train. Because the train physics and direction you're moving actually impacts the trajectory of your bullets and your jumps, you have to account for that as you're moving through this incredibly realized level.
THAT is an example of how set pieces can be good, if someone is thoughtful about it
Phonomezer
Banned
The worst, I had to resort to a map.
Yes it's totally embarrassing to me calling out what a smug ass you are.
My opinions do not matter and my posts are too small to count because i'm not a GAF VIP like yourself I guess.
I should prepare 5 pages before I post so my content is deemed important by your majesty.
My opinions do not matter and my posts are too small to count because i'm not a GAF VIP like yourself I guess.
I should prepare 5 pages before I post so my content is deemed important by your majesty.
Phonomezer
Banned
The fuck is going on in here
I wished they did more cool stuff with the wind areas or the gas sections. Imagine an area where there is gas all over you can't use firearms and there is wind all over which impacts your bow shots. You would have to adjust for the wind direction and speed to kill your targets.
All of the various mechanics in the game were usually self contained within the level. Like they could've combined various Tomb elements to create more complex puzzles. The foundation was there but there was clearly no imperative to make anything too challenging.
All of the various mechanics in the game were usually self contained within the level. Like they could've combined various Tomb elements to create more complex puzzles. The foundation was there but there was clearly no imperative to make anything too challenging.
A Junya' just met Amir0x for the first time.