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[Evander]

Anyone who bashes the right stick combat is a moron I'm sorry, it's one of the things the game actually did very well, camera control was not lost because of it, it was lost because the game tries to force dumb angles, had they let the camera stay behind you it would have been perfect. The game has the deepest combat system i've ever personally used in a diablo/pso/etc kind of game.

As far as the combat system goes, the only issue I have is that it could use a more simple option, for folks who may not want to study it in depth. That isn't really a HUGE strike against it, though.

But yeah, the problem is the camera itself. Other games have done camera fine without using the right stick.

 

[Lé Blade Runner]

I tried the demo. The graphics are horrible, but the gameplay is actually pretty fun. Might even buy this once it hits the bargain-bins.

 

[drakesfortune]

- Reviewers giving the game a C- or 5 is "Fn" wrong. Anyone who does this has no business reviewing games.

Anyone that has a different opinion than the one I have reached is Hitler and eats babies for breakfast.

 

[soldat7]

I tried the demo. The graphics are horrible, but the gameplay is actually pretty fun. Might even buy this once it hits the bargain-bins.

After playing the demo the game is not for me but I'm stunned that people can think the graphics are 'horrible'. Character models? Perhaps. Environments? No way.

 

[drakesfortune]

Yeah, a stealth troll the trolls. Dyack said some stupid shit and doesn't get away with it. Fine. Kojima is a fucking prick and says stupid shit and people line up to rub his cock? Fuck that.*




* does not reflect my opinion on Kojima's games.

Yes, but did Kojima come onto GAF and mock the whole community?
Did he challenge us to a goofy tag bet?
Did he use GAF in a pseudo social lab experiment?
After the bluster was MGS4 a below average game with below average reviews when it was go time?

No, he did not come to GAF and mock us.
No, he did not challenge us to any tag bet with regard to the quality of MGS4.
No, Kojima did not use GAFers as lab rats in some crazy, idiotic experiment.
MGS4 was very well received and got great reviews, and is generally a very well loved game.

None of this is on par with Dyack and Too Human. These are certainly part of the equation as to why Dyack and Too Human have received such negative backlash from this community in particular.

 

[Stitch]

graphics are okay but the framerate is horrible. and the controls. and the camera. and the story. and the aiming. and the cyberspace wells.
basically the whole game but yeah, the graphics are fine.

 

[Crescendo170]

After the bluster was MGS4 a below average game with below average reviews when it was go time?

Not that I give a shit about Too Human or this thread, but 69%(~7/10) is not below average. 7/10 is a good score.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Not that I give a shit about Too Human or this thread, but 69%(~7/10) is not below average. 7/10 is a good score.

Depends where it's from. This is the problem with Gamerankings in general. 7/10 from IGN is like, I forget it straight away. From Edge, I maintain some interest.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Yes, but did Kojima come onto GAF and mock the whole community?

No. But he does give interviews and mock people who want MGS4 on the 360. And then gives horrible analogies. And then contradicts himself.

MGS4 was very well received and got great reviews, and is generally a very well loved game.

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.

None of this is on par with Dyack and Too Human. These are certainly part of the equation as to why Dyack and Too Human have received such negative backlash from this community in particular.

My point is that the opinion of Dyack is affecting people's opinion of his product. That's where the retard factor comes in.

It's the same thing as if a 360 fanboy read Kojima's latest retarded analogy and then gave Metal Gear 4 a bad review. MGS4 fans would call shenanigans on that with the swiftness.

 

[travisbickle]

No. But he does give interviews and mock people who want MGS4 on the 360. And then gives horrible analogies. And then contradicts himself.

What are you talking about "mocks people", he stated reasons it's exclusive.

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.

wait, what?

My point is that the opinion of Dyack is affecting people's opinion of his product. That's where the retard factor comes in.

No it's not, your opinion that his comments are affecting the scores of the game are what's affecting your opinion of the game when in fact it's the quality of the game that's affecting the scores. ermm....

 

[DeadGzuz]

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.
.

:lol

Now I've seen it all.

 

[CoG]

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.

LOL.

 

[Evander]

:lol

Now I've seen it all.

Have you seen an elephant fly?

 

[Christine]

Have you seen an elephant fly?

I've seen a horse fly.

 

[drakesfortune]

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

10 out of 10 reviewers, and 99 out of 100 game players disagree with your statement.

Also 69 percent is a D+ in school, which is below average everywhere I was ever taught. 75 percent in generally considered a C, which is average. There are very few great games in that range, and there are fewer games in that range that I end up liking at all. If you look at how reviewers score games, that is generally below average. The only games that score worse are movie tie ins and the occasional bomb like Haze and Lair. Most games do better than 69% in reviews. There are 236 games that scored better than Too Human did on the Xbox 360. That ought to say something about the quality of the experience. Is 237th place better than most?

http://www.metacritic.com/games/xbox360/scores/

 

[Shins]

7/10 from IGN is like, I forget it straight away. From Edge, I maintain some interest.

My friend's little brother was obsessed with the Too Human demo; loved it. He saw the review in GameInformer and completely dropped the game. I don't really understand how that works. Reading reviews for impressions (or in the case of postmortems, for introspection) are great, but the only review that really counts is the your own.

something something not worth my time something something

 

[Wurm]

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.

This is a special level of crazy. If you have indeed played both games that is, which I can only assume you havent. MGO alone is a better game than Too Human.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

The amount of people who like something doesn't have any bearing on it's quality. Plenty of people like bubble gum pop and boy bands. Doesn't mean they're good.

McDonald's has served over a billion, but their food still gives me the runs.

People complain about Too Human's cheesy dialogue? How about completely transparent bosses in MGS4. RAGE. SHOW ME YOUR RAGE. I'M ANGRY.

EDIT

This is a special level of crazy. If you have indeed played both games that is, which I can only assume you havent. MGO alone is a better game than Too Human.

I played MGO. You couldn't even get into some games, and there was a balancing issue with it being ridiculously easy to get head shots. No complaints. Some online bugs for Too Human, tons of complaints.

 

[Shins]

Or he could just like the kind of game Too Human is more than the kind of game MGS4 is.

I love both.

 

[Evander]

Just before this goes too far, please don't give any MGS4 spoilers in this thread. I'm still working my way through MGS3 (stalling for trophies).



Anyway, the difference between game scores and school grades is that school grades are meant to be quantitative. It is the percentage of your work that you got correct. Obviously, in order to prove that you have learned the material, you need to be getting more than half of it right.

Video game reviews are qualititative. They try to assign a number to "how good" the game is. Lining up those numbers with school scores is assinine.

 

[kamorra]

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.

 

[Truelize]

10 out of 10 reviewers, and 99 out of 100 game players disagree with your statement.

Also 69 percent is a D+ in school, which is below average everywhere I was ever taught. 75 percent in generally considered a C, which is average. There are very few great games in that range, and there are fewer games in that range that I end up liking at all. If you look at how reviewers score games, that is generally below average. The only games that score worse are movie tie ins and the occasional bomb like Haze and Lair. Most games do better than 69% in reviews. There are 236 games that scored better than Too Human did on the Xbox 360. That ought to say something about the quality of the experience. Is 237th place better than most?

http://www.metacritic.com/games/xbox360/scores/

I guess it kinda is.
I am amazed at how much fun I have had with this game so far. I haven't played anything else since it came out and I've managed to put 50ish hours into it. That's a lot of freakin time in one week. A lot!
And if the game really was as bad as some reviews suggested there is no way I would have put that much time in. Regardless of opinion, if a game is bad you are gonna have a hard time finding people that want to play constantly. A really hard time.
The game has it's negative points for sure. But the sum of everything is much larger than the individual features. It just is.

Anyway, the difference between game scores and school grades is that school grades are meant to be quantitative. It is the percentage of your work that you got correct. Obviously, in order to prove that you have learned the material, you need to be getting more than half of it right.

Video game reviews are qualititative. They try to assign a number to "how good" the game is. Lining up those numbers with school scores is assinine.

Good point.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Just before this goes too far, please don't give any MGS4 spoilers in this thread. I'm still working my way through MGS3 (stalling for trophies).



Anyway, the difference between game scores and school grades is that school grades are meant to be quantitative. It is the percentage of your work that you got correct. Obviously, in order to prove that you have learned the material, you need to be getting more than half of it right.

Video game reviews are qualititative. They try to assign a number to "how good" the game is. Lining up those numbers with school scores is assinine.

What 1UP did was pretty much a preemptive move to avoid the growing MetaCritic/Gamerankings scandals

 

[drakesfortune]

Anyway, the difference between game scores and school grades is that school grades are meant to be quantitative. It is the percentage of your work that you got correct. Obviously, in order to prove that you have learned the material, you need to be getting more than half of it right.

Video game reviews are qualititative. They try to assign a number to "how good" the game is. Lining up those numbers with school scores is assinine.

Which is why I gave more than one example of why a 69 is below average. In school a 69 is considered below average. I said that the 237th rated game for the 360 is below average as well. Further some classes in school are entirely subjective like art class, or music classes, which is why they are similar to reviewing a video game. Also, every teacher grades differently in these classes, making it even more like video game reviews. Also in some of these classes certain project may be graded on a 1 to 10 scale, an A to F scale, or a 0 to 100 scale and then transposed to a percentage, exactly how the reviews on video games are done. Sure some classes are based on right or wrong answered based in fact, but there are a lot of classes where the grades are subjective and based on opinion, just like video game reviews.

 

[Evander]

What 1UP did was pretty much a preemptive move to avoid the growing MetaCritic/Gamerankings scandals

I wasn't talking about letter grades.

I was talking about declaring 7.5 to be average.

Using a quantitative number scale to qualitatively review games is stupid, in any regard, no matter how it is calibrated.

 

[Woo-Fu]

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.

I'll probably still be laughing at this comment when I'm in a nursing home.

 

[Truelize]

Which is why I gave more than one example of why a 69 is below average. In school a 69 is considered below average. I said that the 237th rated game for the 360 is below average as well. Further some classes in school are entirely subjective like art class, or music classes, which is why they are similar to reviewing a video game. Also, every teacher grades differently in these classes, making it even more like video game reviews. Also in some of these classes certain project may be graded on a 1 to 10 scale, an A to F scale, or a 0 to 100 scale and then transposed to a percentage, exactly how the reviews on video games are done. Sure some classes are based on right or wrong answered based in fact, but there are a lot of classes where the grades are subjective and based on opinion, just like video game reviews.

But can you honestly say that there are 236 games on the 360 that a high majority of people would have more fun playing then playing Too Human?
Cause that's what reviews are supposed to tell me.

 

[tfur]

I'll probably still be laughing at this comment when I'm in a nursing home.

:lol

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

I'll probably still be laughing at this comment when I'm in a nursing home.

That's fine. I'll have moved on and played more video games.

 

[jman2050]

That's fine. I'll have moved on and played more shitty video games.

fixed

 

[Evander]

In school a 69 is considered below average.

As I just said, there is no proper comparison to school. Yeah, your Art class may use letter grades, but that is because they are already inside of a system that uses those methods, and having a different method for a single class would be absurd. There are plenty of "Pass/Fail" options in my day, as well.



I'm not saying that a 69 is CURRENTLY above average. I'm saying that it is idiotic that it isn't. Setting the average score for video games at 75 is stupid because you are weighting down a qualitative scale. As a result, you end up with very little room to differentiate the really good games, and a lot of wasted space at the bottom of the spectrum. Can you tell me the difference between a 2 and a 3, in your own words?

 

[CoG]

n/m

 

[Truelize]

As I just said, there is no proper comparison to school. Yeah, your Art class may use letter grades, but that is because they are already inside of a system that uses those methods, and having a different method for a single class would be absurd. There are plenty of "Pass/Fail" options in my day, as well.



I'm not saying that a 69 is CURRENTLY above average. I'm saying that it is idiotic that it isn't. Setting the average score for video games at 75 is stupid because you are weighting down a qualitative scale. As a result, you end up with very little room to differentiate the really good games, and a lot of wasted space at the bottom of the spectrum. Can you tell me the difference between a 2 and a 3, in your own words?

Or a 69 and a 70.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

fixed

I doubt I'll be playing anymore Metal Gear games.

 

[drakesfortune]

But can you honestly say that there are 236 games on the 360 that a high majority of people would have more fun playing then playing Too Human?
Cause that's what reviews are supposed to tell me.

I've played the demo, and for me, and I imagine most people out there, yes there are 236 games on the 360 that are better than Too Human. In fact, for me, there are more than 236 games that would be more fun, and I like RPGs and games like WoW, where loot is a pretty big motivator to continue playing at the end of the game.

I don't doubt that there are people who love too human. More power to you if you do. I'm happy you're happy. I'm just saying that I don't think most people will get anything out of this game. For the type of game it is, it doesn't appear to be a fun one. It has the benefit of being the only game like it on the 360, and for the people dying for this type of game, they'll probably do well to buy it. I'm just arguing that in MY opinion a 69% average for reviews is not average, and is generally considered below average, by most people. That doesn't mean people won't love the game, it just means the audience is probably pretty small that will really get into it. Some people probably love the Wall-E game, but in my opinion, after playing the demo, it's crap.

 

[Evander]

Or a 69 and a 70.

Well, yeah, but it's even more serious when a full 10 percent means nothing at all.

 

[kamorra]

I doubt I'll be playing anymore Metal Gear games.

Sure since you wont buy a PS3.

I can afford it. I just don't care for it, and I know plenty in the same boat. I look at the PS3, can pick out one or two titles that I do want, but don't justify the price. Everything else has a game of equal value on the 360.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

I've played the demo, and for me, and I imagine most people out there, yes there are 236 games on the 360 that are better than Too Human. In fact, for me, there are more than 236 games that would be more fun, and I like RPGs and games like WoW, where loot is a pretty big motivator to continue playing at the end of the game.

I don't doubt that there are people who love too human. More power to you if you do. I'm happy you're happy. I'm just saying that I don't think most people will get anything out of this game. For the type of game it is, it doesn't appear to be a fun one. It has the benefit of being the only game like it on the 360, and for the people dying for this type of game, they'll probably do well to buy it. I'm just arguing that in MY opinion a 69% average for reviews is not average, and is generally considered below average, by most people. That doesn't mean people won't love the game, it just means the audience is probably pretty small that will really get into it. Some people probably love the Wall-E game, but in my opinion, after playing the demo, it's crap.

Wall E doesn't allow you to effortlessly destroy hundreds of bad guys with hammer golf swing.

Sure since you wont buy a PS3.

I couldn't imagine another MGS game coming to the PS3. At least exclusively.

But I'll buy one eventually when the price drops. Little Big Planet, Fat Princess, Heavy Rain, and Killzone 2 look right up my ally.

 

[drakesfortune]

As I just said, there is no proper comparison to school. Yeah, your Art class may use letter grades, but that is because they are already inside of a system that uses those methods, and having a different method for a single class would be absurd. There are plenty of "Pass/Fail" options in my day, as well.



I'm not saying that a 69 is CURRENTLY above average. I'm saying that it is idiotic that it isn't. Setting the average score for video games at 75 is stupid because you are weighting down a qualitative scale. As a result, you end up with very little room to differentiate the really good games, and a lot of wasted space at the bottom of the spectrum. Can you tell me the difference between a 2 and a 3, in your own words?

Sure there's no governmental body setting the standard, but after having read thousands of reviews, I think that the majority of people giving a game a 6 out of 10 or a 69 out of 100 in general are saying it's a below average game. Games that get a 5 out of 10 are generally considered terrible failures, and anything below that is in the category of broken and unplayable. To me, that's how the current averages seem. But yes, you are correct that there is no standard on which to place this, but experience goes a long way, and 60 out of 100 tends to play much like you'd subjectively expect a D graded game to play. We pin these things to grade scales and percentages because to discuss a grade we have to try to pin it to a standardized scale, however flawed it may be, because the discussion exists in an anomalous place without a background to view it from otherwise.

 

[drakesfortune]

Wall E doesn't allow you to effortlessly destroy hundreds of bad guys with hammer golf swing.

Sure, and if that's your thing, more power to you. Effortlessly is the key word in that sentence for me.

 

[Evander]

I think that the majority of people giving a game a 6 out of 10 or a 69 out of 100 in general are saying it's a below average game.

Yes, and that's a problem.

The accepted standard scale for game reviews is inherently flawwed.

 

[agrajag]

Just before this goes too far, please don't give any MGS4 spoilers in this thread. I'm still working my way through MGS3 (stalling for trophies).



Anyway, the difference between game scores and school grades is that school grades are meant to be quantitative. It is the percentage of your work that you got correct. Obviously, in order to prove that you have learned the material, you need to be getting more than half of it right.

Video game reviews are qualititative. They try to assign a number to "how good" the game is. Lining up those numbers with school scores is assinine.

Great point. I remember back when EGM had their old numbered scoring system, they stressed in every issue that 5/10 was their average.

 

[Y2Kev]

You can usually tell that when "fun" is used exclusively to describe something that you're looking at total shit. I find kusoge fun, but I don't dump my critical faculties when examining it because I am a kusoge whore.

 

[Evander]

You can usually tell that when "fun" is used exclusively to describe something that you're looking at total shit. I find kusoge fun, but I don't dump my critical faculties when examining it because I am a kusoge whore.

Pimp My Ride 360 is fun.

It is also incredibly absurd, and a bad game.

But it's fun.

 

[Farnack]

er...what? While they may have bickered a bit over it, I think the guys in 1UPYours put it perfectly when it was mentioned that Too Human with button controls would be like Dynasty Warriors. The right analog control is what makes it feel like a console diablo-like; I don't see how the game could work as well otherwise. Button control would turn it into just another action game.

But it is a freakin' action game. They say it should have the control scheme of DW because that's what it is: an action game. There is a huge disconnect with the control scheme because they feel like the DW or DMC button sequencing can achieve a lot more than the clumsy dual stick flip flop.

It's an action game with RPG elements that so happens to have loot drops. It does neither of them well.

- Reviewers giving the game a C- or 5 is "Fn" wrong. Anyone who does this has no business reviewing games.
- A lot of reviewers factored in the company/drama into their reviews.
- SK and DD wanted to make a great game and poured their hearts into it and are crushed by every negative review.

This particularly... why the hell should reviewers even care about SK or DD? A game is a game. I, wholeheartedly, doubt that reviewers have some emotional attachment to the events happening outside the game. They don't get attached to the hype or any publicity stuns that happen. I really find it offensive that he's implying that they shouldn't criticize a game poorly because "someone pour their life and soul into it". If it's terrible, it's terrible. Dyack needs this shame because he's a terrible designer.

Matt C. is just full of crap.

No. But he does give interviews and mock people who want MGS4 on the 360. And then gives horrible analogies. And then contradicts himself.

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.

My point is that the opinion of Dyack is affecting people's opinion of his product. That's where the retard factor comes in.

It's the same thing as if a 360 fanboy read Kojima's latest retarded analogy and then gave Metal Gear 4 a bad review. MGS4 fans would call shenanigans on that with the swiftness.

Wut...

Explain this then.

65 - Team Xbox - I don’t need games that make me this mad for so little payoff.

An Xbox site giving an Xbox game that kind of score. There is an amount of objectiveness to the review process, and accumulating review scores from all the gaming news publishers pretty much cancels out that assumption. This game, overall, got low 5-6 scores from the major places.

 

[Atomspike]

MGS4 prettier graphics than Too Human, Too Human is the better game.

 

[PhatSaqs]

You can usually tell that when "fun" is used exclusively to describe something that you're looking at total shit.

I guess it's easy to have that attitude if you either choose to ignore or don't agree with the reason(s) that make something fun in the first place.

 

[KTallguy]

Holy fucking shit. Is this thread still going?
Haven't we realized that critically Too Human is scoring like shit? Can we move on please?

And wtf at comments that MGS4 is a worse game than Too Human.
There's absolutely no way in hell you can back up a claim like that in any quantitative fashion. You're just stirring the shit.

Finally, as Y2Kev said, I've enjoyed playing plenty of bad games in my time, but that doesn't mean they're not bad games. Step back out of your fanboy haze and look at shit objectively.

 

[Y2Kev]

Pimp My Ride 360 is fun.

It is also incredibly absurd, and a bad game.

But it's fun.

Heh, yeah. "Fun" is more an evaluation of how badly someone has ADD than a measure of the intrinsic worth of the actual product.

I guess it's easy to have that attitude if you either choose to ignore or don't agree with the reason(s) that make something fun in the first place.

Now that you've defended Dyack's honor and Too Human, you can go back, reread what I said, and reply again!

 

[PhatSaqs]

Now that you've defended Dyack's honor and Too Human, you can go back, reread what I said, and reply again!

Maybe if you quit looking at everything as either an attack or defense you'd better understand where i'm coming from.