Too Human review thread of scoring lower than Haze (BOOSH)

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CartridgeBlower said:
The review was fine. It's not like he didn't talk about what he felt were problems the game had. And isn't that what a review is?

I'm guessing if he loved the game, no one would be saying this was a 'poorly written' review. Just a hunch, though.

He talked about the problems and the rest of the game in the most basic, simplistic way imaginable. Anyone who doesn't know anything about Too Human will come away from that review knowing nearly as little as before, which completely defeats the purpose of a review.

I don't have any stake invested in Too Human - I thought the demo was better than expected but I'm still unsure as to whether or not I'll buy the game, because I'm still not convinced one way or the other. The 1UP review doesn't exactly help that dilemma, and that's the main problem with it.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
e) I didn't find the menus any more offensive than Mass Effect's. A bit annoying, but certainly not robbing the game of any and all benefits of its loot system.

That's not saying much though. It's not like Mass Effect's inventory system wasn't bad, except it didn't depend on loot as much, the game was set up to be more ability/power-based.
 
TheRagnCajun said:
How about we don't demonize 1up for their review until other major review sites have chimed in? If 1up truly is way off base there will be egg on their face soon.

I haven't really seen anyone bitching about the score (which is surprising) just the content of the review itself (some find it lacking).
 
Kittonwy said:
That's not saying much though. It's not like Mass Effect's inventory system wasn't bad, except it didn't depend on loot as much, the game was set up to be more ability/power-based.
Pretty much. The inventory system in Mass Effect sucked, but it wasn't the focus of the game and I really didn't spend much time in there.
 
I was a little disappointed to see them bashing the game for giving you loot, not to mention saying that classes have only a few unique skills when each class gets its own three-pronged skill tree.

This is one where I'd love to see the reviewer's Gamertag :D

Hey Kittonwy - didn't you say you wanted people to stay out of threads about games they're not interested in at all? Yeah...you've got what...17 posts here already? That's pretty consistent.
 
Kittonwy said:
That's not saying much though. It's not like Mass Effect's inventory system wasn't bad, except it didn't depend on loot as much, the game was set up to be more ability/power-based.

Yes, it was a hassle, but it never got to the point where I was like "GAH! I don't even want these boots anymore!" Saying it negates the loot aspect the game is, thus, inaccurate.
 
If the loot in the demo is any indication then a lot of it you just salvage right away or when you next level, however unlike a lot of games you aren't hauling it back to an NPC to do so.
 
I honestly thought that TH would be a solid B game that a few people would really love and a few people would really hate, most would think its decent, though not the magnum opus Dyack said it would be. Every time I read a new review I can hear that olympics gymnastics commentator for NBC say, "oh no, this is a complete disaster, a huge huge error!!!!!" On the bright side, TH may not win a bronze but it'll be dirt cheap in a few months. Day 265 purchase confirmed!!!!
 
Kittonwy said:
That's not saying much though. It's not like Mass Effect's inventory system wasn't bad, except it didn't depend on loot as much, the game was set up to be more ability/power-based.

If you played a soldier or any of the soldier hybrid classes then weapon selection and upgrades were very important.

I actually didn't mind mass effect's inventory as it was very easy to jump between different characters while sticking to the same item category, allowing you to prioritize who gets what weapon or armor. It did have one nearly fatal flaw, I didn't like it lumped weapon upgrades in with regular weapons, and then forced you to destroy things if you couldn't pick them up because you hadn't taken the time to clear out 60 Scanner IIIs you had sitting in there.

It certainly didn't ruin the game for me.

Too Human has a smart salvage function which basically fixes the mass effect flaw I mentioned. It gets rid of your worst item, which is better than having to destroy any new items you get.
 
Chrange said:
I was a little disappointed to see them bashing the game for giving you loot, not to mention saying that classes have only a few unique skills when each class gets its own three-pronged skill tree.

This is one where I'd love to see the reviewer's Gamertag :D

Hey Kittonwy - didn't you say you wanted people to stay out of threads about games they're not interested in at all? Yeah...you've got what...17 posts here already? That's pretty consistent.

I'm interested in the game as far as the 1UP review goes, just not interested in buying the game at this point. It's not like I've ever gone into that little sanctuary thread, I'm just not interested in fapping about loot so I've never gone in there to mess up your precious little discussions.
gswink.gif
 
AzerPhire said:
Its an RPG with multiple classes. How you can judge the gameplay if you only play through as one class or try each class for an hour or two? Not to mention that there is a New Game + so you can reach higher levels and get the best equipment.

But, exactly how much time should a person have to invest in a game before they're justified in expecting it to shift gears and become compelling? The idea that you shouldn't judge a game's quality until you've experienced the entire breadth of it's content is silly.

The vast, vast, vast majority of people who play Too Human will play through it, at most, once. Probably around 90% of players, I'd assume. The draw of higher difficulty levels, better loot, new classes and character builds to experiment with etc. should be seen as a bonus to the dedicated who really enjoyed the game and want to experience it further. However, if the fundamental game that these perks are built into isn't engaging, feels shallow or antiquated, then new ways of experiencing the same old sh*t doesn't change the fact that it's still the same old sh*t.

My philosophy has long been that a game deserves some time to breathe before you dismiss it and move onto something else, at least 10% of a typical playthrough, I'd say. By that I mean, if a game takes on average 10 hours to complete, it deserves an hour of your time, just so you have the opportunity to acclimate yourself to the controls, get beyond the introductory/tutorial level and see if the gameplay really speaks to you. Beyond that 10%, however, it's the game's job to keep you going, and you can't blame somebody for giving up on an RPG that "doesn't really get good until hour 25".
 
Chrange said:
I was a little disappointed to see them bashing the game for giving you loot, not to mention saying that classes have only a few unique skills when each class gets its own three-pronged skill tree.
He addresses the skill trees in the very next paragraph after discussing the classes.

And he never bashes the game for "giving you loot".
 
Zeliard said:
He talked about the problems and the rest of the game in the most basic, simplistic way imaginable. Anyone who doesn't know anything about Too Human will come away from that review knowing nearly as little as before, which completely defeats the purpose of a review.

I don't have any stake invested in Too Human - I thought the demo was better than expected but I'm still unsure as to whether or not I'll buy the game, because I'm still not convinced one way or the other. The 1UP review doesn't exactly help that dilemma, and that's the main problem with it.

This.

In a review it is not enough to just state that a part is good or bad, you should justify it which the reviewer in this case either did not do or did it in the simplest terms.
 
Kerda said:
But, exactly how much time should a person have to invest in a game before they're justified in expecting it to shift gears and become compelling? The idea that you shouldn't judge a game's quality until you've experienced the entire breadth of it's content is silly.

The vast, vast, vast majority of people who play Too Human will play through it, at most, once. Probably around 90% of players, I'd assume. The draw of higher difficulty levels, better loot, new classes and character builds to experiment with etc. should be seen as a bonus to the dedicated who really enjoyed the game and want to experience it further. However, if the fundamental game that these perks are built into isn't engaging, feels shallow or antiquated, then new ways of experiencing the same old sh*t doesn't change the fact that it's still the same old sh*t.

My philosophy has long been that a game deserves some time to breathe before you dismiss it and move onto something else, at least 10% of a typical playthrough, I'd say. By that I mean, if a game takes on average 10 hours to complete, it deserves an hour of your time, just so you have the opportunity to acclimate yourself to the controls, get beyond the introductory/tutorial level and see if the gameplay really speaks to you. Beyond that 10%, however, it's the game's job to keep you going, and you can't blame somebody for giving up on an RPG that "doesn't really get good until hour 25".

I could understand that from the average players perspective but if you get paid to review games for a living you should be thorough to offer the best review possible.
 
wayward archer said:
If you played a soldier or any of the soldier hybrid classes then weapon selection and upgrades were very important.

I actually didn't mind mass effect's inventory as it was very easy to jump between different characters while sticking to the same item category, allowing you to prioritize who gets what weapon or armor. It did have one nearly fatal flaw, I didn't like it lumped weapon upgrades in with regular weapons, and then forced you to destroy things if you couldn't pick them up because you hadn't taken the time to clear out 60 Scanner IIIs you had sitting in there.

It certainly didn't ruin the game for me.

Too Human has a smart salvage function which basically fixes the mass effect flaw I mentioned. It gets rid of your worst item, which is better than having to destroy any new items you get.

I finished Mass Effect on soldier, yes the inventory management was shit, but so was the cover-based shooting mechanics, especially after having played games like Gears of War and Uncharted, so I had more of a beef with that than worrying about the inventory system.

I think it's better just to not pick up anything when your inventory is full, TELL THE PLAYER THE INVENTORY IS FULL, and let the player decide what to get rid of instead of forcing the player to having to discard things.
 
Kittonwy said:
I finished Mass Effect on soldier, yes the inventory management was shit, but so was the cover-based shooting mechanics, especially after having played games like Gears of War and Uncharted, so I had more of a beef with that than worrying about the inventory system.

I think it's better just to not pick up anything when your inventory is full, TELL THE PLAYER THE INVENTORY IS FULL, and let the player decide what to get rid of instead of forcing the player to having to discard things.

I would have preferred a tighter shooting game implementation in mass effect as well, but for what they were trying to do it was fine with me and I still enjoyed the hell out of it.

I think there is an option to not pick up stuff if your inventory is full in Too Human... it simply stays on the ground and isn't sucked into you as you walk near it. I think the smart salvage is just for people who want minimal interaction with their inventory. I might be wrong about this though.
 
border said:
He addresses the skill trees in the very next paragraph after discussing the classes.

And he never bashes the game for "giving you loot".

He complains that you constantly get more loot. In a dungeon-crawling hack-and-slash game where the point is to get better and better loot.
 
Chrange said:
He complains that you constantly get more loot. In a dungeon-crawling hack-and-slash game where the point is to get better and better loot.

I thought his complaint was about spending money on crafting only to find better loot right around the corner which renders the previously crafted item obsolete.
 
Kittonwy said:
It's not like I've ever gone into that little sanctuary thread, I'm just not interested in fapping about loot so I've never gone in there to mess up your precious little discussions.
gswink.gif

Jeez, dude, you really never pass up an opportunity to insult the people legitimately interested in this game. Like I said, I'm not just interested in the game, I did not enjoy playing the demo just because of "fapping about loot".
 
Chrange said:
He complains that you constantly get more loot. In a dungeon-crawling hack-and-slash game where the point is to get better and better loot.
His point seemed more that "Epic" loot isn't "Epic" if the game constantly throws it at you, and that you end up spending too much time in the unwieldy, slow inventory interface.
 
Kittonwy said:
I thought his complaint was about spending money on crafting only to find better loot right around the corner which renders the previously crafted item obsolete.

That was part of his complaint... his main complaint seemed to be the fact that he found himself upgrading almost constantly.

If that's a serious problem then I would think that it is easily correctable. Just do what I do and don't check your inventory every single time you pick up an item. Gather items for a while then make large upgrades when you have tons of options instead of tiny incremental upgrades after every little fight. I guess OCD people who instinctively hit start whenever they hear the item pickup sound would have a legitimate complaint.
 
The thing is, that if...IGN gives the gave a good review, many will be like "Well, they are Dyack's friends..so of course"

But if they give it a bad review, then it will be like "See, told ya the game sucked!!!!
RAWR
"


:p
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Jeez, dude, you really never pass up an opportunity to insult the people legitimately interested in this game. Like I said, I'm not just interested in the game, I did not enjoy playing the demo just because of "fapping about loot".

I didn't say YOU enjoy fapping about loot. I just said I'm not interested in fapping about loot, whether you're interested in fapping about loot or not, is strictly your business in a thread that I have no interest in participating in, hence I haven't posted there once, that's why I'm posting here and not that other "official" thread.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Jeez, dude, you really never pass up an opportunity to insult the people legitimately interested in this game. Like I said, I'm not just interested in the game, I did not enjoy playing the demo just because of "fapping about loot".

The problem is, he was never interested at all in the game to begin with. He comes in these threads and feigns remote interest just to get his stupid jabs in.
 
So basically all the complaints we doubters had beforehand were valid...SHOCKER!

Oh Dyack you should have listened to GAF. Alot of us were also right about Haze you know. :lol
 
squatingyeti said:
The problem is, he was never interested at all in the game to begin with. He comes in these threads and feigns remote interest just to get his stupid jabs in.
The sad part is people continue to respond and quote his crap so we get TH threads where there's nothing but clown speak for pages and pages.
 
Kittonwy said:
I didn't say YOU enjoy fapping about loot. I just said I'm not interested in fapping about loot, whether you're interested in fapping about loot or not, is strictly your business in a thread that I have no interest in participating in, hence I haven't posted there once, that's why I'm posting here and not that other "official" thread.

Top of the pile, well done considering you came in late.

dark warm and moist in here isn't it.
 
PhatSaqs said:
The sad part is people continue to respond and quote his crap so we get TH threads where there's nothing but clown speak for pages and pages.

Thats why the official thread was created with such rules because of people like him. Thats the cold hard truth.
 
It's amusing how Too Human is constantly ragged on for its animation, but Fallout 3 wins game of the show @ E3 all over the place. What makes it worse is that the quality of animation is considerably more important in a mainly first-person, gunplay-oriented game like Fallout 3, rather than a Diablo-style game like Too Human.

There's a considerable amount of "hate it for the sake of hating it" going on with TH. I don't believe anyone but Eurogamer has dared to lambast Fallout 3's animation.
 
Kittonwy said:
I didn't say YOU enjoy fapping about loot. I just said I'm not interested in fapping about loot, whether you're interested in fapping about loot or not, is strictly your business in a thread that I have no interest in participating in, hence I haven't posted there once, that's why I'm posting here and not that other "official" thread.

You claimed it as your primary reason for avoidance. Your sentence structure directly implies that it would be the sole reason to be interested in posting there.
 
Zeliard said:
It's amusing how Too Human is constantly ragged on for its animation, but Fallout 3 wins game of the show @ E3 all over the place. What makes it worse is that the quality of animation is considerably more important in a mainly first-person, gunplay-oriented game like Fallout, rather than a Diablo-style game like Too Human.

There's a considerable amount of "hate it for the sake of hating it" going on with TH. I don't believe anyone but Eurogamer has dared to lambast Fallout 3's animation.

Yeah don't worry, that phase of GAF will hit 3 months after Fallout 3 is released and proclaimed on these very same pages. To quote Forest Gump "Gaf is like a box of chocolates... you never know what your gonna get."
 
Eh, the review isn't the most descriptive but it's obvious he just didn't like the game.

Thing is, he probably would have given a similar review to the demo. And I loved the demo.

Now when a review comes out that says, "The demo was fantastic but the full game blows," then I'll start worrying. As for now, it's still all systems go for launch.
 
Its hard to argue with any review right now, since I haven't played through the full game. But I will say that all of the media surrounding this game will affect how this game is received. Consider GTA4 which had nothing but the good things in the press and had what most people would consider over positive reviews. GTA was expected to be the best GTA ever and that was how it was reviewed. It was only later that people began to see all its flaws and shortcomings. Too Human has the exact opposite expectations on it. So, of course that is going to be a factor when it’s reviewed.

A person’s mindset going into anything will change their opinion of it. Too Human has been a PR nightmare and is viewed as having a major identity crisis. Now the blame for those things falls mostly on Silicon Knights. However the need for people to place the game in one of the pre-existing genres is annoying. Saying the game is a bad RPG to start the review is flat out wrong because its not an RPG which makes calling a bad action game equally wrong.
 
squatingyeti said:
The problem is, he was never interested at all in the game to begin with. He comes in these threads and feigns remote interest just to get his stupid jabs in.

He just said that his only interest in the game is the 1UP Review. Like... are you kidding me?
 
Zeliard said:
It's amusing how Too Human is constantly ragged on for its animation, but Fallout 3 wins game of the show @ E3 all over the place. What makes it worse is that the quality of animation is considerably more important in a mainly first-person, gunplay-oriented game like Fallout 3, rather than a Diablo-style game like Too Human.
Well, for some, Too Human is supposed to be an epic, thought-provoking, cinematic narrative. It's kind of hard to have that when the game moves like a janky dungeon hack from a Korean budget developer.
 
Jinfash said:
what's a C- on 1 to 10 scale?

There is no direct conversion. If you use the scale used in US Middle Schools, it is about a 6.5 However, Metacritic takes it as something around a 4 / 10.
 
Eric WK said:
I haven't talked to a single person who sees this as a shooter in any way whatsoever. The fact that there are guns is where any and all comparisons end, in my opinion.

Of course. But it is a relevant comparison, since shooting elements are a big component of the game. How big? That's debatable.
 
Zeliard said:
It's amusing how Too Human is constantly ragged on for its animation, but Fallout 3 wins game of the show @ E3 all over the place. What makes it worse is that the quality of animation is considerably more important in a mainly first-person, gunplay-oriented game like Fallout 3, rather than a Diablo-style game like Too Human.

There's a considerable amount of "hate it for the sake of hating it" going on with TH. I don't believe anyone but Eurogamer has dared to lambast Fallout 3's animation.

Just for the record I did not agree with Fallout 3 winning at E3, it's not like games like HL2 and bioshock haven't already done some of the things Fallout 3 is trying to do but better (gravity-gun, telekinesis, ability upgrade, etc, etc).
 
Wasnt kittonwy the same person defending PSO's deep combat system, then panning Too Humans?

What you do in Too Human: Enter large arena like room, use right analog stick to kill everything, pick up loot, continue.

What you do in PSO: Enter large arena like room, press button 3 times and back up until everything is dead, pick up loot, continue.

Both simple, but effective and fun.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
You claimed it as your primary reason for avoidance. Your sentence structure directly implies that it would be the sole reason to be interested in posting there.

Frankly I don't give a shit enough to post there, so I won't, so it doesn't matter which reason is primary or secondary or whatever.
Indifferent2.gif
 
Pso was also 4 players and came out about the same time too humans development started, and ran on 56k..

And had a better framerate

:p
 
_tetsuo_ said:
Wasnt kittonwy the same person defending PSO's deep combat system, then panning Too Humans?

What you do in Too Human: Enter large arena like room, use right analog stick to kill everything, pick up loot, continue.

What you do in PSO: Enter large arena like room, press button 3 times and back up until everything is dead, pick up loot, continue.

Both simple, but effective and fun.

Let's be serious here, I wouldn't play PSO at this point, so it's not like I prefer one over the other, but then PSO did have 4 player online which was kind of fun.
Indifferent2.gif
 
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