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[Mithos Yggdrasill]

how did Kane and Lynch sell?

Over 1 million copies at retail. But remember that reviews were mixed and not completely negatives. The only bad, bad review was the one of Gerstmann, that caused the Gamespot's scandal.
This is a game that is around since the PSOne's era and I doubt that it will find its audience.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

wait are we actually comparing too human to Lair?


wtf is the point?

 

[Kittonwy]

I can say that at least two publications will be providing an overall positive review for the game. So don't count 1up as the holy grail when there are many different opinions that'll be hitting the web tomorrow.

I hope IGN and Gamespot would look at 1UP and GameInformer and think long and hard before trying to pull any punches on the game. This has to be about making sure your readers know which games are good and when to steer clear of the crap, ESPECIALLY gamespot if they hope to regain their reputation after the Kane and Lynch debacle.

 

[Schattenjäger]

i remember when everyone was freaking out when SK left Nintendo :lol

 

[FateBreaker]

It's not like Ed Fries signed Dyack up, Shane Kim did, Ed Fries got Bungie and they kicked Fries to the curb, Shane Kim took over and now Bungie no longer belongs to MS.

Ah, got'cha'. Thanks for the info.

 

[Francias Castiglione]

I hope IGN and Gamespot would look at 1UP and GameInformer and think long and hard before trying to pull any punches on the game. This has to be about making sure your readers know which games are good and when to steer clear of the crap, ESPECIALLY gamespot if they hope to regain their reputation after the Kane and Lynch debacle.

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

 

[eznark]

Over 1 million copies at retail. But remember that reviews were mixed and not completely negatives. The only bad, bad review was the one of Gerstmann, that caused the Gamespot's scandal.
This is a game that is around since the PSOne's era and I doubt that it will find its audience.

Kane and Lynch was at 67.5% according to Wikipedia, and sold over a million.

I'm guessing both will hold true for Too Human.

I think we all get way too hung up in our own little world and forget that the opinions of GAF don't particularly matter in the grand scheme of things, a trap Dyack himself fell into.

 

[eznark]

I hope IGN and Gamespot would look at 1UP and GameInformer and think long and hard before trying to pull any punches on the game. This has to be about making sure your readers know which games are good and when to steer clear of the crap, ESPECIALLY gamespot if they hope to regain their reputation after the Kane and Lynch debacle.

so now reviewers don't only need to judge a game, but they need to make sure their opinions are in line with the rest of the industry? What sense does that make?

 

[border]

how did Kane and Lynch sell?

Kane and Lynch had a very big marketing effort and the benefit of the Christmas sales season, IIRC. At the moment nobody seems to know how much of a marketing push TH will get. In another thread I asked if there would be TV spots, and there was no answer.

 

[Grecco]

I can say that at least two publications will be providing an overall positive review for the game. So don't count 1up as the holy grail when there are many different opinions that'll be hitting the web tomorrow.

Err IGN and Gamespot remaign of the "Big" publications. We already know EGM/1Up and Gameinformer.

Unless you are talking about smaller blogs, and Russian Maxim.

 

[Stoney Mason]

so now reviewers don't only need to judge a game, but they need to make sure their opinions are in line with the rest of the industry? What sense does that make?

GAF sense...

 

[tfur]

One of them is going to be IGN, we know that much. Dyack has befriended like half their staff.

I would not be surprised if Eurogamer/Edge reviews it at 8 or 9...

 

[Operations]

Kane and Lynch had a very big marketing effort and the benefit of the Christmas sales season, IIRC. At the moment nobody seems to know how much of a marketing push TH will get. In another thread I asked if there would be TV spots, and there was no answer.

If the attention they gave TH during E3 is any indication, they I assume it will not get much.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I hope IGN and Gamespot would look at 1UP and GameInformer and think long and hard before trying to pull any punches on the game. This has to be about making sure your readers know which games are good and when to steer clear of the crap, ESPECIALLY gamespot if they hope to regain their reputation after the Kane and Lynch debacle.

You know, it's possible some of them might have actually enjoyed it, the way actual people enjoyed the demo. That's all they'd need to think "long and hard" about.

 

[eznark]

Kane and Lynch had a very big marketing effort and the benefit of the Christmas sales season, IIRC. At the moment nobody seems to know how much of a marketing push TH will get. In another thread I asked if there would be TV spots, and there was no answer.

that was sort of my point. The reviews and message board hype don't matter a single bit.

 

[deepbrown]

wait are we actually comparing too human to Lair?


wtf is the point?

Blame Dyack...he said Too Human was better than Lair and Haze.

 

[Zenith]

Is this really what GAF has become?

One rule for one thread, and another rule for the entire forum? And the mods are okay with this?

yes, I asked their permission before posting. and of course they're not going to censor all Dyack discussion on the forum. 1 thread was more than enough.

 

[Kittonwy]

so now reviewers don't only need to judge a game, but they need to make sure their opinions are in line with the rest of the industry? What sense does that make?

So 1UP and GameInformer represents the rest of the industry now?

They need to tell it like it is with Too Human which is what 1UP did in this instance, instead of holding back their opinions about the game.

 

[MattKeil]

Blame Dyack...he said Too Human was better than Lair and Haze.

It is.

They need to tell it like it is with Too Human which is what 1UP did in this instance, instead of holding back their opinions about the game.

So you think that happens a lot, do you?

 

[Stoney Mason]

So 1UP and GameInformer represents the rest of the industry now?

They need to tell it like it is with Too Human which is what 1UP did in this instance, instead of holding back their opinions about the game.

So any opinion you agree with is "telling it like it is" and any you don't is obviously bought and paid for right?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

So 1UP and GameInformer represents the rest of the industry now?

They need to tell it like it is with Too Human which is what 1UP did in this instance, instead of holding back their opinions about the game.

So I'm holding back my opinions on the game when I say I enjoy it? Are you preemptively spinning a positive review as moneyhatted? What exactly are you saying? That any positive Too Human impression is holding back?

 

[C Jones]

So 1UP and GameInformer represents the rest of the industry now?

They need to tell it like it is with Too Human which is what 1UP did in this instance, instead of holding back their opinions about the game.

So if the review is positive, it's a given that they are "holding back" ?

 

[Keikoku]

Blame Dyack...he said Too Human was better than Lair and Haze.

Actually, it is better.

 

[eznark]

So 1UP and GameInformer represents the rest of the industry now?

They need to tell it like it is with Too Human which is what 1UP did in this instance, instead of holding back their opinions about the game.

a review is an opinion, so the only thing they "need" to do is stay true to that, not conform to what you think telling it like it is, is.

What exactly are you saying?

not made by naughty dog, automatically a 7 point ceiling.

 

[Dante]

Oh wow.....

 

[JoeLang]

So 1UP and GameInformer represents the rest of the industry now?

They need to tell it like it is with Too Human which is what 1UP did in this instance, instead of holding back their opinions about the game.

Are you still that butt hurt from Dyack that you cannot think clearly?

You answered your own question in your first sentence. 1up and Gameinformer do not represent the whole industry, thus making different publications with positive reviews plausible.

I have nothing against you Kittowny, however, just stay away from any and all Too Human discussion because you have nothing but an axe to grind.

 

[Perdew]

so now reviewers don't only need to judge a game, but they need to make sure their opinions are in line with the rest of the industry? What sense does that make?

They don't need to, but IF it's true that the reviewer is personal friends with Dyack and has a bias, they better be objective towards the game. Honestly, I don't care if IGN gives Too Human a 10, I haven't trusted their reviews after the Neo Geo Pocket section went down.

Even a better review site could give the game a great score; it's fine, I don't think anyone actually has an issue with that. But two reputable reviewers have already rated the game lower than Lair; which is amazing, since after Dyack's personal bet against this board his own standards were the amazingly low scoring Haze and Lair. I honestly thought that was a joke, seeing it in reality is kind of sad.

But also funny since it was a bet against 'us'.

 

[Kittonwy]

You know, it's possible some of them might have actually enjoyed it, the way actual people enjoyed the demo. That's all they'd need to think "long and hard" about.

I'm sure some people enjoyed LAIR and Kane and Lynch, but that doesn't mean either of those games were actually remotely decent. There are always going to be people who enjoy a demo regardless of quality, some people enjoyed the fatal inertia demo too but tbh the demo was a piece of shit, because not everyone will judge games by the same standard, not everyone is going to care if the cutscenes and dialogue are shit or if the combat is shit as long as there's "loot", or whether the story delivery is any good as long as the subject is "norse mythology".

 

[border]

that was sort of my point. The reviews and message board hype don't matter a single bit.

At the same time, how do you think Bioshock would have done with a bunch of C-'s and 6.7's? Reviews can and do hold some sway over sales. If they didn't then publishers wouldn't go so apeshit over poor scores.

 

[ksamedi]

I don't know about the reviews but I sure as hell enjoyed the demo a lot. Yeah the animations are a little stiff but who cares. The game is fun to play and has an interesting plot. I'm quite sure I will love this game and finish it multiple times. This is one of those games where my own opinion vastly differs from reviews. I had the same thing with Red Steel.

 

[Jinfash]

oh Kittonwy :lol

 

[[Nintex]]

I'm sure some people enjoyed LAIR and Kane and Lynch, but that doesn't mean either of those games were actually remotely decent. There are always going to be people who enjoy a demo regardless of quality, some people enjoyed the fatal inertia demo too but tbh the demo was a piece of shit, because not everyone will judge games by the same standard, not everyone is going to care if the cutscenes and dialogue are shit or if the combat is shit as long as there's "loot", or whether the story delivery is any good as long as the subject is "norse mythology".

I have to agree, I can relate to this as a fan of 3D Sonic games.

 

[eznark]

I'm sure some people enjoyed LAIR and Kane and Lynch, but that doesn't mean either of those games were actually remotely decent. There are always going to be people who enjoy a demo regardless of quality, some people enjoyed the fatal inertia demo too but tbh the demo was a piece of shit, because not everyone will judge games by the same standard, not everyone is going to care if the cutscenes and dialogue are shit or if the combat is shit as long as there's "loot", or whether the story delivery is any good as long as the subject is "norse mythology".

and people who enjoy moronic zombie twists and historically terrible final boss battles...

the point is, a reviewer shouldn't look to other reviews to gauge what score they themselves are going to give a game.

 

[Francias Castiglione]

So 1UP and GameInformer represents the rest of the industry now?

They need to tell it like it is with Too Human which is what 1UP did in this instance, instead of holding back their opinions about the game.

I thought your personal crusade against Dyack was pathetic enough but you are really scraping the barrel now. Never mind, as long as you use baby talk and post shitty smileys you'll get away with it.

 

[PhatSaqs]

This Kittonwy clown should just be banned from TH threads.

 

[Kittonwy]

Are you still that butt hurt from Dyack that you cannot think clearly?

You answered your own question in your first sentence. 1up and Gameinformer do not represent the whole industry, thus making different publications with positive reviews plausible.

I have nothing against you Kittowny, however, just stay away from any and all Too Human discussion because you have nothing but an axe to grind.

You're the one with a Too Human avatar and you're telling ME I have an axe to grind? ROFFLES.

 

[Farnack]

Are you still that butt hurt from Dyack that you cannot think clearly?

You answered your own question in your first sentence. 1up and Gameinformer do not represent the whole industry, thus making different publications with positive reviews plausible.

I have nothing against you Kittowny, however, just stay away from any and all Too Human discussion because you have nothing but an axe to grind.

Why do people bring that up?

It's clear that SK and Crystal Dynamics are in deep allegations over the Legacy of Kain franchise. Dyack's huge ego would make him say anything to keep his "baby" near him in his world.

So let's just stop that. Dyack did not own Kittonwy.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm sure some people enjoyed LAIR and Kane and Lynch, but that doesn't mean either of those games were actually remotely decent. There are always going to be people who enjoy a demo regardless of quality, some people enjoyed the fatal inertia demo too but tbh the demo was a piece of shit, because not everyone will judge games by the same standard, not everyone is going to care if the cutscenes and dialogue are shit or if the combat is shit as long as there's "loot", or whether the story delivery is any good as long as the subject is "norse mythology".

No, Kittonwy, you're not being honest, you're being subjective.

And it wasn't just the loot I found enjoyable. It was the combat, which is the core game mechanic that one needs to be satisfied by in order to even remotely enjoy a game. I accept that this isn't the case for everyone, but the fact is that if it is the case for even anyone, then your blanket preemptive claims of bias are fundamentally wrong.

 

[AndresON777]

I thought your personal crusade against Dyack was pathetic enough but you are really scraping the barrel now. Never mind, as long as you use baby talk and post shitty smileys you'll get away with it.

:lol

 

[MattKeil]

I'm sure some people enjoyed LAIR and Kane and Lynch, but that doesn't mean either of those games were actually remotely decent.

So how do you propose we screen game reviewers to make sure their opinions are the correct ones? :lol

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

that was sort of my point. The reviews and message board hype don't matter a single bit.

I agree that the influence of forums is nothing in comparison to other factors, but I disagree about scores. The overrating of some key titles evidences the fact that more and more people and industry insiders keep an eye on them. In particular on Gamesrankings and Metacritic.

The entire campaign behind GTAIV and the absurdly high ratings were exactly the peak of this phenomenon. For many, even Galaxy and Portal suffered this. Things slighty adjusted a bit since then, but fundamentally things are still the same.

And if publishers care so much about scores, the obvious reason can be only economical: a high noted game has more possibility to sell well.

Sure, it's not all. There are other factors. Maybe more important, but you cannot take reviews out of the mix today. Not anymore.

 

[Eric WK]

You're the one with a Too Human avatar and you're telling ME I have an axe to grind? ROFFLES.

God, you're a clown.

 

[WrikaWrek]

I hope IGN and Gamespot would look at 1UP and GameInformer and think long and hard before trying to pull any punches on the game. This has to be about making sure your readers know which games are good and when to steer clear of the crap, ESPECIALLY gamespot if they hope to regain their reputation after the Kane and Lynch debacle.

Well, that was sad.

 

[Eric WK]

Well, that was sad.

 

[dermannmitdemcolt]

Well, that was sad.

And embarrassing.

 

[C Jones]

So how do you propose we screen game reviewers to make sure their opinions are the correct ones? :lol

Obviously you let them rate Too Human. If they score it above a 5 they just can't hack it in this industry.

 

[eznark]

I agree that the influence of forums is nothing in comparison to other factors, but I disagree about scores. The overrating of some key titles evidences the fact that more and more people and industry insiders keep an eye on them. In particular on Gamesrankings and Metacritic.

The entire campaign behind GTAIV and the absurdly high ratings were exactly the peak of this phenomenon. For many, even Galaxy and Portal suffered this. Things slighty adjusted a bit since then, but fundamentally things are still the same.

And if publishers care so much about scores, the obvious reason can be only economical: a high noted game has more possibility to sell well.

Sure, it's not all. There are other factors. Maybe more important, but you cannot take reviews out of the mix today. Not anymore.

like most marketing, there is little evidence to support that higher review scores actually work. The examples both ways are limitless, so saying that publisher are pushing for higher reviews just means they see a number, which they can quantify and incentivize and is something they understand, so they push it.

My point was as much to the controversy though. Message boards clearly overrate themselves. I suppose we can say the jury is still out on review scores.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Anyone else here expecting Dyack to never talk to 1up or go on one of their podcasts again? Or at the very least, a 500 word rant on why 1up 'didn't get it.'

 

[Francias Castiglione]

So how do you propose we screen game reviewers to make sure their opinions are the correct ones? :lol

Put teh kittenz in chaaaarge. RAWR

"I wants da munny hatz!"

 

[Kittonwy]

So how do you propose we screen game reviewers to make sure their opinions are the correct ones? :lol

I don't.

If IGN and Gamespot give this game a great score I would be curious to find out why though, the same way when I saw the 1UP review giving the game a C-, I actually went and read the review to find out why Giancarlo thought Too Human was so bad.