Was that the stop motion show?
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Toonami |Aug/Sep16| NUDE GIRLS!
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which is mostly my point that I could be making without crapping on the art style of mob
but yeah, animation in general doesn't seem to be as important as style. Bones doing an amazing job of animating mob will be lost on people that can't see past the art style.
more people are going to find
more appealing than
American anime fans have literally the worst taste out of any group of hardcore fans. Too be super into anime generally means you have to watch a lot of it, so it makes sense that thos who are the most hardcore are going to have the worst taste, as I can barely get through shows that are considered average.
American anime fans also dont watch film or any other form of media, so thus their ability gauge shows is also flawed heavily.
Anime's japanese fanbase is either Otaku or Children. Im glad that there are a lot of artisticly driven animated features coming from Japan, but you gotta understand that half the time, those shows arent expected to succeed, but they do add value too a company because it shows you can animate well whi9ch is incredibly important to become a super huge hit later on. This is why these shows exist, and the horrendous animation labour issue in japan too.
ShinRPGamer
Member
People like mediocrity too much I suppose
Naruto isnt even mediocre most of the time. Fairy Tail is something i'd consider to be mediocre from what ive watched. Naruto is actively bad most of the time
The naruto main cast has a more appealing art style than mob psycho. The cartoony look is off-putting (same with one piece).
If you want to point at a show being visually bland, HxH is where I'd point first. The designs are so... dull. Hisoka is only on the edge of being visually interesting. This could simply be a product of its age, however.
If you want to point at a show being visually bland, HxH is where I'd point first. The designs are so... dull. Hisoka is only on the edge of being visually interesting. This could simply be a product of its age, however.
FT's defining characteristic beyond the "hey this artist should really just be doing smut instead" look of the show is in fact how average it is across the board. It's like Mario in one of the spinoff games. The baseline. The only thing I'd say is decidedly above average in FT is the music, which is on that Bleach/Naruto level.
I don't see how a "cartoony" look is bad when we're watching cartoons. I can understand as a 13 year old and we're trying to pretend we're adults, but like, we shouldn't have those insecurities anymore to be afraid of that stuff.
Naruto does have really good art though. Kishi is a well respected artist even from his biggest detractors. He's got a good visual style, although I think his body designs all generally look like the wood poseable dummies you get, although that's more of a shippuden issue rather then a OG naruto issue
Funny you say that because I think HxH has the most consistently good looking art and animation out of all the long running shonen shows lol.
I dont really have an issue with HxH main design, although, they dont have a really good color palette to them which is strange to see from a Japanese show (japanese art has always been far more interested in colors then western art was)
HxH does have some issues designing non-main characters though. Most of the jobbers in the hunter academy have some garbo ass designs
Slamtastic
Member
Not every shonen can have 100% great designs and art 100% of the time like JoJo.
Doctor Decimate
Member
I think the key difference, though, is that Hunter x Hunter's anime actually looks well-produced. Naruto has this dead, washed-out look to it most of the time that seems like it was produced during the industry's rocky transition to digital art, only we've totally moved past that and Pierrot should know better by now. It looks GREAT whenever they put in the effort, to the point where the quality gap is kind of comical whenever those nice-looking scenes show up in flashback during a regular episode. Shippuden is outright ugly the vast majority of the time even before we start talking about the animation quality.
100+ episodes is my arbitrary number. Hajime no Ippo and YYH are up there as well.
to be fair I don't watch much film either, but a lot of that is that I hate film as a medium to tell stories in general
I can pretty much only watch action or comedy films as any drama doesn't have me spend enough time with any characters to give a crap about what is going on with them. I seem to lack the ability to feel any sort of compassion for a fictional character unless I have spent a while getting to know them. Just because my grandmother is actually dealing with and likely going to die of cancer with in the next few years, doesn't mean I will have my heartstrings tugged for a character that I just met in a movie going through that same situation. Do that in season 2 of a TV series I might feel bad for them though as for anime tastes.
well by mal I have completed 725 anime (and I likely missed some)
sword art online is likely in my top 150
to be fair they are wood poseable dummies most of the time.
it's the only way the replacement jitsu makes sense in most situations where it is used to shock the viewer
Don't look past Inuyasha then. Beautiful show in both art and animation.
I like a number of the Naruto side-cast character *design* (moreso than artstyle or animation). I don't care for Sasuke or Naruto's designs/costumes, but like Shikamaru, Ten-ten, Kakashi, Rock Lee, Orochimaru, even Sakura. I dunno, they seem stylish but low-nonsense.
(speaking of Naruto animation, let's see, the best animated episode I've seen is ..... 18 episodes away. There's also a pretty well animated episode...... in 6 weeks)
(speaking of Naruto animation, let's see, the best animated episode I've seen is ..... 18 episodes away. There's also a pretty well animated episode...... in 6 weeks)
to be fair madhouse has just been doing a great job animating most things for the last 5 years or so
I don't really remember how that show looked on average, but I remember thinking all the flashbacks to old Inuyasha in TFA looking a lot better than TFA itself lol
to be fair I don't watch much film either, but a lot of that is that I hate film as a medium to tell stories in general
as for anime tastes.
well by mal I have completed 725 anime (and I likely missed some)
sword art online is likely in my top 150
Im not implying it's a necessary thing to do, and im not really the biggest fan of the film as a medium either in a similar way. But my point still stands that a lot of people in the medium just have never experienced any kind of "heavy" material to understand the artistry of media creation. I have the same issue with a lot of gamers too btw.
to be fair madhouse has just been doing a great job animating most things for the last 5 years or so
Doctor Decimate
Member
I remember being consistently impressed with a lot of InuYasha's designs early on in the show, though I think Takahashi maybe ran out of cool ideas after a point; I just stopped being impressed. Not even bored or anything, but it just settled into a groove of "this looks perfectly acceptable."
Naruto thematically is such a mess. Remember when the beggining of the show was like NO MATTER HOW MUCH OF A LOOSER YOU ARE IF YOU PUSH YOURSELF ENOUGH YOU CAN ACHIEVE EVERYTHING and then we learn that naruto is super special snowflake
remember how thematically this is a Ninja show that tries to discuss the meta of being a ninja while every battle is the least ninja thing on the face of the earth.
Naruto is a mess of a story. It's characters are either bland or just really annoying, You can really tell how much time and effort Kishi puts into his world and his story compared to someone like Oda who is super well organized and has a ton of notes on what he's going to do and where the story will go.
Naruto suffers from being similar to DBZ, where it ends up being too long so most of it is the author going week to week making stuff up. This is terrible in a universe that takes itself seriously like Naruto.
remember how thematically this is a Ninja show that tries to discuss the meta of being a ninja while every battle is the least ninja thing on the face of the earth.
Naruto is a mess of a story. It's characters are either bland or just really annoying, You can really tell how much time and effort Kishi puts into his world and his story compared to someone like Oda who is super well organized and has a ton of notes on what he's going to do and where the story will go.
Naruto suffers from being similar to DBZ, where it ends up being too long so most of it is the author going week to week making stuff up. This is terrible in a universe that takes itself seriously like Naruto.
Fist of the North Star always looks amazing
If Kenshiro finds you, he will kill you.
they did some good stuff back in the day too, but they had a period where things weren't so good.
I am hard to recall any show since hunter x hunter that has been poorly animated by them though.
I think HxH might have allowed them to attract talent back and afford to keep it around and thus have continued to be one of the better animation studios since then.
*looks at their shows* yeah 2011 is where they picked up again, before that they had a decent show here or there but plenty of not so great looking shows.
really looking 2007 and before were pretty good as well.
so really just 2008-2010 were they not so hot.
and that very easily could have been hellsing ultimate's fault given how much trouble that production gave them.
Oda does a great job of raising and lowering the stakes to slowly build up the power levels.
Kishi instead went for the dbz route of continuing of trying to outdo himself repeatedly and scaled himself way to high.
I still enjoy naruto though as long as I just sit back to watch for the action
Our conversations in this thread are sometimes a bit cyclical (to be expected when Toonami airs shows that are 100s of episodes) and this has been said several times before: the biggest issue is that Naruto/Sasuke relationship is not at all believable, but the crux of the narrative.
Big, real time end game Naruto Spoilers:
Their final confrontation is literally a run back of the waterfall fight at the end of part 1. No, not just a thematic nod, but a character reset. This is after they basically had settled all that shit and killed GOD.
Nah that's too friendly. More like Crap Puka and Leorio. Or maybe Yusuke and Hiei.
And I'm not implying that if you like Naruto that you're a bad person, we all enjoy eating McDonalds from time to time, and I will give Naruto this is that it does have some decent action scenes in it.
I really like DBZ, but as a story it's fucking terrible. I wish more people would come to the understanding that liking badly made things isn't inherently bad at all.
I really like DBZ, but as a story it's fucking terrible. I wish more people would come to the understanding that liking badly made things isn't inherently bad at all.
whynotboth.jpg
That's the thing though. So much of the plot in Naruto revolves around us believing Naruto and Sasuke were the best of friends. And it isn't convincing at all.
They even add plenty of flashbacks later on of Naruto and Sasuke being buddies as kids. Scenes we never actually got in the show.
well really it depends how you define badly made.
I wouldn't call dbz badly made. the story isn't very good, but it's just there to get from action scene to action scene which it did do very well.
but yeah, people can like what they want to like.
Just because someone likes sword art online but hates full metal alchemist brotherhood... doesn't make them wrong... it just makes them different
to be fair as far as we know naruto is the only person sasuke ever could call friend.
we start the series with him being a loner and not actually hanging out with anyone until he starts to hang out with his team mates against his will.
so logically either naruto, sakura or kakashi is the person that sasuke would consider his best friend.
and while we got to see naruto hung out with shikamaru and chouji a bit, at the start of the series he was also a loner.
so logically either sasuke, sakura, or kakashi was his best friend since his real best friend was really just a teacher student relationship
sakura won't give naruto the time of day, and treats saskuke as a chunk of meat so she is out.
kakashi is a mentor so he is out.
so by process of elimination sasuke and naruto have to be best friends.
even if they aren't good friends.
they are the only friends they have at that point as naruto really doesn't start building real friendships until after they go to recover sasuke
Hellwarden
Member
Saw big pod of dolphins at beach.
Was cool.
Was cool.
Tell me about it. Naruto has a decent lore and world, but the characters aren't worth it.
DBZ's reception is pretty unique. Like, everybody understands and acknowledges that the narrative beats are often poorly written, the characters can be really dumb, multiple Deus Ex Machinas, the obvious silly things that are parodied such as charging attacks/ moar hair and muscles, "Toriyama Forgot", etc. But just don't care.
DBZ Abridged does well to use these sorts of criticisms in their parody (although such elements are natural to parodies).
it doesn't hurt that there aren't a lot of high action shows like DBZ from its time. (aka most of them came after that we know today)
Hellwarden
Member
I think Naruto pre-Shippuden is pretty decent to great at times. Shippuden however ran aground quickly, and straight up bursts into flames at the end.
Fairy Tail is doing the same thing, and it's zzzzzzzzzz.
Wars are never a good way to end a manga.
Basically, DBZ gets the Grandfather Clause.
Can't wait to get to this part.Fist of the North Star always looks amazing
...really? Because the most popular (and cheapest) is the last thing on my mind when ever I noticed Jojo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vteA3NL5CXM
This is suppose to be an super hero movie by Russians but this seems more like an anime.
This is suppose to be an super hero movie by Russians but this seems more like an anime.
gamerguy2002
Member
Wait, WHAT?! So whats the big secret?...
Ah okay, don't remember you covering filler hell though...
It is but it isn't because we don't know if all events will play out the same way yet, its getting close though.
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